Who has Piston Slap on Startup

[Colin]

Just curious how many people with 3.1 - 3.4 engines have the infamous clatter at cold startup , and how long it takes to go away . Mine takes about a Minute and it quiets right down and runs excellent from then on .

[Greed4Speed]

That clatter isn't piston slap, it is the lifters pumping up. It goes with having a pushrod engine.

If you have piston slap, you'll know it.

[Colin]

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
That clatter isn't piston slap, it is the lifters pumping up. It goes with having a pushrod engine.
It's piston slap , and it has nothing to do with it being a pushrod engine . These engines are famous for this problem , i just want to get an idea of how many people have or don't have it . Go to this website and click on the photos and sound link and you can hear a soundclip of the noise . >http://www.pistonslap.com/

[Riley1123d]

I have it.. I guess it lasts about a minute also, but then works beautifully.

[Silver99SE]

If you mean the slight ticking sound at cold startup, yes I have it. And usually it goes away as the temp. gauge gets to the first or second mark.

[Themeneea]

yep, i have it. it goes away after a min or 2.

i read about a guy who tore are 3400 apart, and the cylinders/pistons were fine

[Cpl_kellehar]

same i got it last about a min then its gone. i always thought it was the lifters and was going to have gm fix it since it was under warrenty

[Pickelicious]

Piston slap is a normal side effect of having V engines. It will happen to everyone from time to time. However, the noise I hear when I start my car up is the lifters making noise. I have never heard piston slap on this car. Are you sure you're not hearing something else?

Also, if your lifters are particularly noisy, sometimes it is because the oil filter is a piece of junk, and you should go buy a better flowing brand. However, a little noise at startup is normal.

[Colin]

Yes , i'm sure it's piston slap . It's caused by the short skirt piston GM uses in these engines . I'm an ex mechanic so i know lifter noise etc. I have noticed a difference with various filters and oil viscosity . I just wondered how many others are pissed off about this because the dealer can't or won't do anything , insisting it's normal . If you try and sell or trade in your vehicle it's not normal , no one that hears it will want it . :roll2:

[RocketFast321]

our malibu has it too, last only a min or two

[donna_n_mike]

Yep I've got it and my car is a '95...other than the little noise it runs beautifully! I think the noise lasts a min or so also.

-Donna

[GtOfDeath]

Yes I have it. Last about a min. Then it runs beautifully.

[BleakGT]

Both me and Jeff have the lifter noise, same as the rest of ya, oes away as car warms up. He has the 3100.

[ophidia]

I have a little but it's ok because:
Car has 125000 miles on it
It doesn't use a drop of oil as far as I can tell.

If the car were lower miles and it were doing it, it would definitely piss me off.

FWIW
Chris

[Brad97GS]

My brother's old '94 Cutlass Supreme with the 3100 did it, though it did have 180,000 miles when he sold it...and as far as I know, his '99 Monte Carlo (also with the 3100) does not do it.

My sister's old '93 Cutlass Supreme with the 3.1 MPFI did it as well, with only about 100,000 miles when she traded it in. Her "new" '02 Rendezvous with the 3400 does not do it (knock on wood).

An old friend of mine had a '99 GA with the 3400 that also did it. I think it started at about 30,000 miles on that car.

[WhiPontiac]

Happens to me here. It's horrendous in the winter too.

[HeyDace]

There is a fix for it, replace the pistons and wrist pins. I have a friend who works at a GM dealership, he can do them in his sleep.

[Riley1123d]

Isn't that crazy expensive though?

[Matt95GT]

My 3100 94 GT had piston slap, with only 43K on it. Maybe wrecking it was a blessing in disguise... I often wondered if it was going to be a major PIA down the road.

[Blackrider]

Yeah I get some nice slaping action during the winter "Sometimes" during the summer if the car has been sitting long. A well this is this engines last year

[akabatman2]

Son of a !@#@! I just bought mine 5 days ago with 38,000K miles on it, and I have it too(Piston Slap, Lifter noise, ticking sound on cold start). No wonder the sales guy always had the car started before I even had a chance to walk over to it.

What viscosity of oil will help improve this? I am thinking of doing my first oil change on it this weekend, I have had good luck with Mobil 1 10W-30 on my Beretta. Would this oil be good?

Also, has anyone every used Slick-50? I used it in my Beretta and I've gotten to the 312,900 mile mark.

Guys, the car looks great and drives nice, is this kind of thing going to end up costing me money? Should I take this car back even though it looks immaculate? I think I am getting paranoia about it now. I already have a buzzing in the radio(http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31138)...but everything else seems to be working ok.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by akabatman2
Son of a !@#@! I just bought mine 5 days ago with 38,000K miles on it, and I have it too(Piston Slap, Lifter noise, ticking sound on cold start). No wonder the sales guy always had the car started before I even had a chance to walk over to it.

What viscosity of oil will help improve this? I am thinking of doing my first oil change on it this weekend, I have had good luck with Mobil 1 10W-30 on my Beretta. Would this oil be good?

Also, has anyone every used Slick-50? I used it in my Beretta and I've gotten to the 312,900 mile mark.

Guys, the car looks great and drives nice, is this kind of thing going to end up costing me money? Should I take this car back even though it looks immaculate? I think I am getting paranoia about it now. I already have a buzzing in the radio(http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31138)...but everything else seems to be working ok.

Dood I have had piston slap since 20,000KM I now have 125,000KM and I beat the **** out of the engine and its fine (Knock on wood)

[Old Guy]

Don't sweat it. That's a normal sound for a 3100/3400.

[akabatman2]

Thanks for the positive thoughts guys.

So, would Mobil 1 10W-30 be a good oil and can you recommend any oil filters that I can get that are better than any others? or is a regular one fine..

Also, curious if anyone else has used Slick-50 in their engines on any of their cars. I have used it on my Beretta for years.

Thanks...

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by akabatman2
Thanks for the positive thoughts guys.

So, would Mobil 1 10W-30 be a good oil and can you recommend any oil filters that I can get that are better than any others? or is a regular one fine..

Also, curious if anyone else has used Slick-50 in their engines on any of their cars. I have used it on my Beretta for years.

Thanks...

That what i used to run, but my rear main crank seal leaks it to fast to I switch to Castrol.

[Gimli]

Originally posted by akabatman2
So, would Mobil 1 10W-30 be a good oil and can you recommend any oil filters that I can get that are better than any others? or is a regular one fine..

Mobil1 is a very good oil (one of the best) and as far as oil filters go Mobil, Purolator PureONE, K&N, NAPA Gold, Wix and AC Delco filters are all very decent.

Stay away from FRAM filters at all cost.

[Colin]

I found that 10W/30 actually made it worse . I thought it would quiet down with thicker oil , but in my case it didn't . 5W/30 seemed to help , i guess because it flows better and quicker when cold . I have heard of lot's of vehicles running fine for many miles dispite having mild piston slap , it's just freakin annoying . :roll2:

[eric99gt]

another easier way i've heard to fix this is to install one of the pre-startup lubricator (not sure on name). it circulates the oil through the engine before it's started

[antoniobanderas]

well.i have had this piston slap ever since the car had like 20kmiles on her,i remember taking car to dealer and been told , "its normal,it will get worse later" by the service guy,well..i report over 120kmiles and car still runs very strong and yes,it has the sindrome still,about the same,i put some oil additives to test and it helped only for a week and then back to same thing , ho well.......

[mrgto]

I just purchased a 2002 Buick Rendezvous (used). It is a GM certified used vehicle with only 24,900 miles on it. I'm a car guy that always started an engine and looked under the hood to hear it run. I don't know why I just hopped into this vehicle without ever starting and hearing it run. I guess the GM certified sticker, stuck on the windshield, dazzled me to putting my head up my ass. Well, the 3.4 has the noise, I'm sure its piston slap. I was lied to by the salesman that I couldn't return the vehicle (3 day/150 mile policy) because of the state I lived in. I've had the Rendezvous in twice in one month. The dealer said its normal. I asked him what's making the noise? he said it was the lifters. These service writers have no problem lying through their teeth. I said to him that I want something in writing that this noise has no adverse affect on the motor. He gave me the run around; pretending to look for bullentins and recalls. He ended up giving me a phone number to call, GM. I told him if I have to come to this service dept to raise hell, I will. Its a shame that a low milage car has this noise. I tried changing the oil and putting Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic with a new Fram filter...it sounds worse (maybe its the filter?) I have a 69 GTO convertible that runs great...flashforward to 2002, one would think technology advanced that engines would be flawless. I honestly thought about buying a Honda before purchasing the Rendezvous, but I wanted to stay with american cars. I should of bought the Honda:(

[ENGGUY]

Hmmm, I would like to hear another sound clip of the noise.
And along with what the rpm was when the noise was recorded.

[antoniobanderas]

my 1993 grand am 3.3 started the slapping noise ever since new,it sounds like ; puff puff puff, almost like a exaust gasket leak,but its not,at four years old ,the noise usually went away whenever i put the car in neutral,shifting it to drive however,make the puff puff puff return,this is most noticeable with the car idling off course,,now,,after more than 10 years old,the car does the noise at idle be on park/neutral,or in drive,and it never really goes away like before,i know how lifters clatter when you first started an old engine back in the s,then it went away and all was fine and normal,this is a different sound,and acts different i ask owners of 1993 v6 3.3 to post they comments on this engine and car year thank you

[Tebore]

What's the big deal tho? Every 3x00 series engine from the original 3.1 to the 3400 has it but they all run perfectly fine (if you don't count the LIM).

So it makes noise. But it runs..

Didn't GM release a bulletin a while ago about this. Something about replacing the wrist pins and cylinders on a rebuild. And using the EOS for people complaining.


This has something to do with GM using different alloys for the blocks and pistons and this allows them to expand to fill the chamber doesn't it?

[mrgto]

To me the noise in the motor is a big deal. How come I don't hear it coming from other newer cars? I've had a '81 Buick Regal 3.8 that started pinging and detonating like no tomorrow. I was told that this was normal. Normal can mean that its "normal" for that unique motor to do certain things. It doesn't necessarily mean its OK. The Regal was a low mileage vehicle. After 2 years of pinging, the motor went. I took out the motor and found holes through the pistons. Sometimes experiences of the past, will make you more concern about purchases of future vehicles with problems.

[Prospeeder]

Yea my moms 3400 does it on cold start up, it sounds bad, but its normal. My car has lifter tick from the shitty fram filter ill be changing out soon, there 2 totally different things,and sound very different

[antoniobanderas]

my car did the noise ever since brand new,only now is getting worse,before it did it all the time but only on drive idling,whenever i shifted to neutral or park,the sound went away,not now,it does it either way,i tried putting additives and they don't work now,they used to but no more,the sound is like a puff puff puff,,like a exhaust pipe flange gasket leak,but its not any one has this shit like me?

[goatslap]

The only piston slap noise I know of is in the middle of the night with my girlfriend. She says its a loud noise when hot but it has no advese effects by morning once its 'cooled' down.

[RisingX2004]

^^^ Wow...........:roll2:

[rixGAphx]

1. ALL gas engines have different alloys between the cylinders and the pistons:
* Iron blocks, or aluminum blocks with iron sleeves.
* Aluminum pistons, period.
(The above excludes exotic ceramics, and the old Vega 4-cyl that had a skeeveless aluminum block with silicon embedded in the cylinder walls for toughness.)

* MANY engines have piston slap upon cold start-up; most do not, yet they still have two different metals.

* 'Different alloys' isn't a definitive explanation of GM 3.1/3.4 60* V6 piston slap.

2. The ORIGINAL GM 60* V6 was the carb'd 2.8 (used on late 70's Citations, and on my '85 Jeep Cherokee).
Then came the 3.1 and 3.4 (plus some goofy specialty engines, and now the new Caddy CTS line of DOHC's)

* The 2.8's never had piston slap.

* The 3.1 is an 8mm stroked version of the 2.8, and the pistons were shortened 4 mm (~3/14") to fit within the cylinders.
* That material was taken off the skirt at the bottom of the piston, and it still projects into the crankshaft a bit at BDC.

* Bottom line: The 3.1 and 3.4 pistons are so short that they 'wobble' a bit until the skirts heat and expand enough to fit snugly.
For *some* V-6's, this wobble causes noise (piston slap).
* * *

It only takes about 15 seconds for the aluminum piston to expand from the heat of combustion, and the engine should ALWAYS be treated gently during this warm-up due to lack of lubrication at the bearings.

So quit complaining about the piston slap.
There are plenty of other GM-caused woes on our Pontiacs for us to worry about. :roll2:

You'll prolly find some others on your Buick, too.
Mebbe find a Buick board to whine on, rather than coming here and dredging up long-dead threads for no legitimate reason??

I dunno, just a thought.
-Rick

PS:
In the '60's thru early '90's, Fram was THE standard of high quality filters: oil, air, and gas.
IMO, they are now JUNK.
They are sold at WalMart fer crissake, at the same price as other lesser filters; they CAN'T be good quality. :banghead:

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
PS:
In the '60's thru early '90's, Fram was THE standard of high quality filters: oil, air, and gas.
IMO, they are now JUNK.
They are sold at WalMart fer crissake, at the same price as other lesser filters; they CAN'T be good quality. :banghead:

:roflmfao: @ Rick

You're killin' me man!! :D

[HeyDace]

Originally posted by mrgto
To me the noise in the motor is a big deal. How come I don't hear it coming from other newer cars? I've had a '81 Buick Regal 3.8 that started pinging and detonating like no tomorrow. I was told that this was normal. Normal can mean that its "normal" for that unique motor to do certain things. It doesn't necessarily mean its OK. The Regal was a low mileage vehicle. After 2 years of pinging, the motor went. I took out the motor and found holes through the pistons. Sometimes experiences of the past, will make you more concern about purchases of future vehicles with problems.

Pre-detonation is mostly caused by carbon build up in the combustion chambers or the use of low volatile gas. It is not normal. The car could have been repaired prior to blowing up.

[ChevelleSSLS6]

When I changed the oil in my friend's 87 Dodge Dakota (carb'd 3.9v6... think 318 v8 minues 2 cylinders) and used a wix filter... the next time I did I used a fram; the new fram allowed less oil psi than the old wix!

As for this 'piston slap' my ex-gf's 95 3100 had it and she still drives that car; last time I knew it had over 100k on it... my 2000 3400 has 1333xx miles on it, has this piston slap (it's the lifters) sound also. Neither consumed oil, both run great, and once my 3400 gets warmed up to op temp I get on it quite often.

[badboyzracin]

Googled lifter tick and found your site, Cool!
We own 2 GAGT's wifes is 2003 GT and I just bought a 95 GT mint shape outside but the 3.1L engine is getting me p.o'd
Has lifter noise and getting worse, doesn't stop after warm up but is reduced somewhat. Is very annoying because the car looks great! but ticks like an old jalopy :(
I have put Valvoline max life 5w30 in it as well as a max life filter (made by Purolator) it is also leaking oil on garage floor pretty bad...
Do I need to take it in and get a new lifter??? anybody know the cost if so? one mechanic friend told me don't worry about it- turn up the radio:) but that ticking noise is drivin' me nuts!!!

P.S. I put a cone style filter on it sounds great on acceleration!! and thats when I don't notice any ticking :)

[Refuse Winst]

Wow, kind of glad this was revived... mine has that too. Only does it for a bit on startup (which is pretty good, I think, considering I have 101,000 miles)... I wasn't really too worried since it went away rather quickly... good to know what it is though.

[Vhrus]

I would agree with GM on this one, dont worry about it. Its not so much a "problem" as a "nature of the beast" kind of thing.

Both my 97GAGT with the 3100 in it and my work van (2000 montana with the 3400) have the ticking noise in it (that sounds like lifters to me) and both are fine with 120,000kms on the GA and 240,000kms on the montana. Also the montana is a company van so I drive the shit out of it cause I just dont care (that and I figure if I break it they will give me a new one) but I still cant hurt the engine.

Bottom line, the rest of your car is going to break/rust before the cold engine noise actually becomes a problem, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[GaDave]

my grand mother 05 grand prix gt(3.8) did it from 0 km in the winter u could hear it in the house we took it 2 the dealership and they said they fixed it it hasnt done it since.

[Fiiny]

I do I do! I couldnt care less either, all 3x00 GM cars I ever owned/driven had it, all have done me well.

My GA has 95k kms on it, runs awesome, I would say lasts bout a minute.

My old Lumina with the 3.1 in it had over 360k on it and went on strong, I aint too worried.

You want to hear awful sounds, go fire up a Dodge Shadow from the mid 80s-90s, hoooboooy did they have a knock!

[daman]

I have it and i know it's lifter tick and NOT piston slap because i
checked the bores when the heads were off...tight as a virgin on prom night.

at 148k

[huafist]

1) Lifter tick and piston slap are two completely different sounds. Piston slap sounds like knock. Lifters tick, albeit sometimes quite loudly.

2) I don't know the manufacturing process for GM's OEM pistons, but you don't typically hear a lot of piston slap unless pistons are forged. However, GM apparently set excessive clearances on their piston/bore, so piston slap is fairly common from what I've read on the matter relating to their cars.

3) I've never heard of oil viscosity having an effect on piston slap. Piston slap is caused when the piston - wall clearance is a little loose, allowing the piston to "rock" - once the piston heats up & expands, it no longer rocks. If different weights of oil produce different levels of noise, then it's most likely your lifters & not piston slap.

[sustainblue]

Before I had my Grand Am I owned a 1991 Explorer. The lifters sucked in that car, they never stopped ticking. It's the same sound that comes from my 3400 when I cold start it. It goes away after the engine warms.

This oil change I am trying some Lucas oil stabilizer to see if it helps as winter kills good cars here.

I'll let you know how it turns out.:cool:

[pontiac3100]

this has been a brought up topic so many times.
it seems this all started when gm made the 3.1 mpfi all the way up to....now.
my friends grand prix 3.1mfi does it....has 217k miles and used the fram oil filter and his does it off and on....still has the pick up (but not like my ga!)

another friend has a 96 ga se 3100sfi and his does it continously....and still drives it hard.
oh yea has over 100k miles.

another one has a 00 gagt 3400sfi and does it at cold start.

my 94 gagt 3100sfi w/ 165k miles.
does it for 30 seconds...cold.
she's driven....so what hard.
but she's maintained to death.

[ENGGUY]

Piston slap.
Not in a nice 1.0 Geo Metro. Not in an old 1958 Chevrolet pickup. But in those days they really did know how to manufacture something, and believed in quality, and none of the parts are made in mexico or anyother foreign country.
Now we all know why you can be behind a new vehicle that is less than 3 years old, and smokes like a pig. Hmmm ever wonder if something critical on your car was put together by the new guy or gal they just hired in the plant in mexicok,or where ever else. And that person just left their Mcdonalds job, for this slightly higher paying manufacturing job. He/she didn't know a wrench from a carving knife till they hired in. And now they are installing Piston assemblys in the latest GM V6. Hmm or maybe they are the inspectors of those or other parts. Yeah I could on and on.

[peteyboy310]

I thought I had piston slap.But upon hearing the sound bite and the replys,I know my sound upon start up is diffenrt.Upon cold start up my enigine make a loud pop or bang some thing u would associate w/ the motor mounts being loose. But i checked and torqed the mounts and checked the the trnny mounts , but to no avail/.

[jds4464]

Mine does the same thing exactly as you describe.