V8 engine swap

[PhroZen101]

Just wondering if it is possible to drop a v8 in my 96 gase. I saw that the 84 ga had the 5.0 v8 and was wondering if it could possible fit with some moving around or maybe even professional work. Look here at the engine i'm talking about. http://www.pontiacautopartx.com/rebuilt_engines/pontiac-grand-am-parts/1984-parts/pontiac-engines---GMC-305LB-2.html It doesn't have to be this engine that i'm wondering fits, i'm talking about any v8 engine. Let me know.

[LargeFish]

Would probably work best with RWD conversion, but you're looking at a VERY expensive project. GA ProStock cars are RWD V8 cars.

[Wallflower]

Going RWD is going to be a total *****. I say toss in the Aurora or NorthStar up front and have a party.

[LargeFish]

Will one actually fit between the strut towers in transverse configuration?

[matts]

you can put any size motor in any car.........if you're willing to do some customizing. and converting your car to rwd, although a nice idea, would be impractical. it'd be easier to find a rwd chassis that your body would bolt onto. but anyway you go it's going to be expensive.

[BBT]

I might be wrong, but I don't think so, but the 1984 GA did not have a V8 as an optional engine. In fact, I don't believe they even had a V6 available for that year.

As for fitting a V8 to your 1996 GA, sure. Cut, hack, fabricate, mod. It can be done. Anything can be done. That's the fun of hot-rodding! If you want to do it, spend the bucks and the time and see what you come up with. Could be interesting.

It just won't be easy. :)

[PhroZen101]

What would you say the price for getting another motor like that would cost, where they would have to cut, mold and other stuff. Are we talking $1000 for custom installation or what?

[SpyhunteR]

more than $5000....


2.3ho would be a much cheaper swap... and you'd have more power than that lil v6 in there.

[VanishingImage]

Just ask Len over at AED(well contact them via e-mail) And ask what they did for the BettyRacer project,they stuck the 5.7L Vette engine in it and made it into RWD.Ha or you could buy this engine i saw on TNN over the weekend,it was like a 502 cu.inch 723 HP V8 from chevy big block,haha

[PhroZen101]

I ment to say what the installation cost would be. I can get a 5.0 v8 for about $1000 rebuilt, i just need to know what it would cost to have it professionaly installed.

[BBT]

Replacing the 4 cyl with a V8, of any size, will cost a lot more than $1000. Just getting an engine would be $1000 if you're lucky. Unless you just went the ol' junk yard route. There would be so much to do. Tranny, new springs & shocks, upgrade brakes, custom fit a rear differential, drive shaft, cooling system, etc. etc.

The car would be much heavier at the front than before and would understeer pretty bad I'd bet.

[PhroZen101]

My car is the v6 and not the 4 banger.

[LargeFish]

Same difference as far as the swap goes...

[SpyhunteR]

man it's 100X's easier to do a 2.3ho swap...


V8 motor
new wiring harness of some custom sort
tranny
all that tranny tunnel fabrication
rear axel nonsense
setting up a whole new suspension that can handle this mess
your car won't be street legal you know that right?
tuning
fabricating mounts
lots of cutting
messing w/ the firewall



2.3ho swap

donor junkyard car w/ 2.3ho

wiring harness
guage cluster
motor
tranny
some fabrication that is nowhere near as complex as that of a v8 swap...
some rewiring of things...
you konw this won't be street legal right?

[SikMindz]

Yeah...but who wants a 4-banger? :D

[JoeyK]

There are v 8 swap kits for Dodge Daytona's out there. You might find them on the web & that would give you a good idea of what it'll take. My brother in law used to have a Daytona w/ a 360 in it!:eek: By the time he met my sis, he had sold it, but he's shown me the pics & shared some of the install info w/ me. I plan on someday putting my 400 small block in mine.
I Do know, off the top of my head among other things, you'll have to: buy/ make a custom front subframe to hold the engine in place, buy/make another custom sub frame for the rearend & rear suspension. Install mustang2 a arms, heavy springs & shocks, install a good rear end/axle. Tie the 2 subframes together via box steel channeled behind the rockers. (You'll have to cut your floor pan) - & that's just the major stuff. You'll have to deal w/ exhaust, tranny mounting, different powersteering etc, ect. & then yet, you'll have to deal w/ hooking up all the heating/ cooling electrical, speedo & guages, etc. & also have to swap a computer that works w/ the engine of your choice, unless you go oldschool carb. I plan on the generic gm tpi w/ mateing computer. they make one for many of thier v8's. & oh yeah!,.. you gotta tub that baby out & put some meats on the rear to put all the extra hp to the ground!

[car audio dave]

Lenn said that his project for the bettyracer was a $100,000 project. he used lots of parts from the donor Iroq-z. this amount spent does nto include the time he personally put into blueprinting the conversion.

a less expensive route to take would be to drop a S/C 3800 in there, maybe mod that before you drop it in. itll mount similarly, and the correct parts are available, if youre creative. suspension wont need to be modified too much either.

[JoeyK]

$100,000???? what's he useing 24k gold parts??? I know my brother in law didn't spend more than $12,000. of course, he rebuilt the engine himeself & did all the install work himself, so there were absolutely no labor charges involved. Just parts cost.

[SikMindz]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JoeyK]

500 hp wouldn't cost an extreme amount if you were super chargeing.(on a v 8 at least)

[antirice]

Originally posted by SikMindz
We've also heard, "We barely make any money off our products" as AED rolls in an H2 on Dubs with a big trailer. And the "96-98 hood will be out in 2 weeks" as it was just released last week...TWO years later. Can't forget the "...Bettyracer is making over 500+ HP" but can't dyno it because they have to get "permission" from Procharger...:rolleyes:

K..that's enough from me. And besides...if anyone would spend more than 20K on a conversion I would assume that they used a lot of Vaseline to lube up the way they got assraped! :P

hmmm.....a little bitterness????

[99GrandAMSE]

... lets not take this this thread :offtopic: OK?!? :D

[car audio dave]

darren, you know i didnt mean to open this can of worms. lenn told me that its somewhere between 650 hp and 750 hp. he said that hes beat a ferrari 360 on the freeway before.
\
for those who dont know the details, this Iroq-z motor has a procharger kit and an intercooler. the cost fo the project was boosted because they used the tranny, engine and driveline off the camaro, and the suspension is either from that car or another one, not the factory one. basically its an iroq Z with a grand am body.

[antirice]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
... lets not take this this thread :offtopic: OK?!? :D

ok, Mr. Admin =P


my thoughts on the project......

all you need is an imagination

what you'll need:





rear end housing (shortened ford 9 or similar)
V8 motor
wire harness
front subframe
headers to clear the body
and all sorts of other little stuff


the car won't be smog legal, so if you have smog laws, bad news

so lets say no smog laws, this car will be a street rod, it'll sit on a frame, and have to have a like Mustang II subframe.......theres just sooooo much to go over, my mind is just spinning through all of it

[matts]

Originally posted by SpyhunteR

2.3ho would be a much cheaper swap... and you'd have more power than that lil v6 in there.

that may be so. but a built small block will have more power than that 2.3ho will ever dream of having. but the s/c 3.8 isn't a bad idea either. that's what my mom has in her bonneville and it'll haul ass, especially for a 4 door family sedan.

[PhroZen101]

Ok, lets say i wanted to put in the 3.8 now how much is that motor and will it sit on the stock front of the car?

[LargeFish]

IROC, it's not middle-eastern for God's sake!

Originally posted by car audio dave
Iroq-z

[BBT]

No, the 3800 SC is not a bolt in swap. Back to mounting, fabrications, transmission, cooling system, springs, brakes, computer, etc.

[antirice]

which is why its better to do the full frame underneath, that way you don't have as much fabbing

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by matts
that may be so. but a built small block will have more power than that 2.3ho will ever dream of having. but the s/c 3.8 isn't a bad idea either. that's what my mom has in her bonneville and it'll haul ass, especially for a 4 door family sedan.

nice ole V8 which will help the car handle soo unevenly you wouldn't ever think of taking it in the twisties... that's a real fun car there.. oh yeh.. hah.

2.3HO is a smarter swap to do. The size would still keep the car balanced, and the power and modifications you can do, will keep things going all day. :)

[dearim]

You might be able to put in a Caddy 4.9 or a Northstar (if you wanna keep it FWD), but heaven only knows if it will fit. Like LargeFish says, it'll be expensive, too.

[Rayz]

If you really want to do a V-8 conversion go all the way and use a Caddy or Old’s FWD set-up and mount it mid-engine like the Fiero used the Citation drive line. It would probably cost about the same and would be one of a kind. It would handle better and have better traction. It kinda kills the back seat.:D

[PhroZen101]

Alright, I have decided that its just too much money to put into it right now.

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by SpyhunteR
nice ole V8 which will help the car handle soo unevenly you wouldn't ever think of taking it in the twisties... that's a real fun car there.. oh yeh.. hah.

2.3HO is a smarter swap to do. The size would still keep the car balanced, and the power and modifications you can do, will keep things going all day. :)

Why do you think just because there's a v8 in a car that it won't handle well??? I could give you a list of v8 cars that'll handle just as well or better than 4 & 6 banger cars. All you have to do is have the right center of gravity & suspension to go w/ the weight. An old late 80's Trans am or Z28 will outhandle our GA's any day, anytime, anywhere. (just for example) I would also assume that anyone wanting to convert to v8 would also like the rear wheel drive. Can't get it w/ a 2.3 front driver.

[antirice]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Why do you think just because there's a v8 in a car that it won't handle well??? I could give you a list of v8 cars that'll handle just as well or better than 4 & 6 banger cars. All you have to do is have the right center of gravity & suspension to go w/ the weight. An old late 80's Trans am or Z28 will outhandle our GA's any day, anytime, anywhere. (just for example) I would also assume that anyone wanting to convert to v8 would also like the rear wheel drive. Can't get it w/ a 2.3 front driver.

I've seen Quad4 swaps into Triumphs that were RWD

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Why do you think just because there's a v8 in a car that it won't handle well??? I could give you a list of v8 cars that'll handle just as well or better than 4 & 6 banger cars. All you have to do is have the right center of gravity & suspension to go w/ the weight. An old late 80's Trans am or Z28 will outhandle our GA's any day, anytime, anywhere. (just for example) I would also assume that anyone wanting to convert to v8 would also like the rear wheel drive. Can't get it w/ a 2.3 front driver.

go ahead and name all those cars.. I don't care... The Grand Am/Alero with the positioning of the motor the entire balance of the car will be out of whack, as well as most of the cars weight going towards the nose w/ all the V8 junk being crammed under there. It's just a stupid idea.

You will never get the level of handing out of a Grand Am/Alero w/ a V8 swap compared to a 3.4 or 2.4 that is built up and tucked nicely where it needs to be.

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by antirice
I've seen Quad4 swaps into Triumphs that were RWD

Ok, yes, you're right, it'd take alot of modding once again to do so. I've also seen a 454 power Triumph! I think I'd go for the v8 if I were gonna bother mutateing something to the extreme.

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by SpyhunteR
go ahead and name all those cars.. I don't care... The Grand Am/Alero with the positioning of the motor the entire balance of the car will be out of whack, as well as most of the cars weight going towards the nose w/ all the V8 junk being crammed under there. It's just a stupid idea.

You will never get the level of handing out of a Grand Am/Alero w/ a V8 swap compared to a 3.4 or 2.4 that is built up and tucked nicely where it needs to be.

You're just closed minded. it could be done. I'm just not rich enough to do it Besides, are you somehow under the impression that they are not nose heavy now? Any front engine car is going to be. If you want balance, get a mid engine car. Anyways, I'm done if your gonna get your little panties in an uproar. There's nothing wrong w/ v8's I don't see why you have to be so anti displacement. Another thing I gotta ask while I'm at it... do you really think our ga's & Alero's handle great??? If so, you need to drive some sport cars. & in closeing, try being a little more mature. I didn't tell you how "stupid" you are for trying to make a mouse into a lion by throwing all sorts of cash at a 4 banger, now did I?

[car audio dave]

ok look everyone, lets not all get our panties in a bunch. all spyhunter is saying is that the GM engineers (if we wanna call em that) designed these cars with the mindset of a 2.4 or 3.4 motor. as unbalanced as they are, the v8 would just make it even worse. the thing is, nobody wants to go the other way and put in a 1.1 liter to make it all balance well.

if you want a V8 in your grand am, and youve got the cash, then go for it. its been done, and it can be done again. if you cant afford it then why are we here argueing? lets all just sit down and smoke on the big ole' peace pipe.

[SikMindz]

Originally posted by car audio dave
lets all just sit down and smoke on the big ole' peace pipe.

**** yeah!

NOW you're talking!:smoke2: :smoke:

[SpyhunteR]

Dave definately did say it... by putting in a V8 you're just making that misbalance even more apparent... dur dur dur.....

yes I have driven a few sports cars... I think if the badging was correct... a 1994 Acura NSX.. very nice car, handles extremely well and definately one of the finest cars I have ever driven.
Toyota MR2 more bias on the rear, but still way more balanced than an n-body...
mazda miata crazy lovely balance imagine putting just a v6 upfront there .. yeah right... see how the engine is mounted in there.. it's like slammed against the firewall...


I'm nowhere near being closed minded. I'm just looking at things with a practical mindset of not making a dragstrip warrior but an allround potent street car...

ya know something that gets you in the turns, in a straight, in the mountains?

conveniently the grand am was a cheap buy, and I already knew a thing or two about the car thanks to past experience.

[antirice]

Originally posted by SikMindz
**** yeah!

NOW you're talking!:smoke2: :smoke:

:rofl: where's the intake bong?



why would it be unbalanced? it would have a full frame underneath

[matts]

Originally posted by SpyhunteR
nice ole V8 which will help the car handle soo unevenly you wouldn't ever think of taking it in the twisties... that's a real fun car there.. oh yeh.. hah.

2.3HO is a smarter swap to do. The size would still keep the car balanced, and the power and modifications you can do, will keep things going all day. :)

i don't care how bad it handled. it'd have enough power to catch the tiny 4banger and pass it on the straight-aways.

[Rayz]

Here's what you need:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2421701598&category=6218

[BBT]

Originally posted by matts
i don't care how bad it handled. it'd have enough power to catch the tiny 4banger and pass it on the straight-aways.

If you are talking racing, and not streets, this would dependon the course, and on how long the straights are. If a typical road course, it may not be able to catch the 'tiny 4banger'. It would have to at least be able to keep near the smaller, better handling car in order to use its power. This assumes that the 4 banger does not have any power. That would be a bad assumption. And if talking racing, a higher powered V8 car would probably also have a weight penalty assessed to it to keep things relatively even.

There was a race series around here years ago, where Camaros with thier V8s ran against Austin Mini Coopers. Guess which cars usually won? The smaller, lighter, better handling Minis. The Camaro power advantage could not be used.

I agree with those who said they prefer an all around, better balanced car.

But a big V8 GA would still be neat! I like seeing different, unexpected cars. That Fiat would be interesting. I knew of a guy who was putting a 455 in a Fiero. If his earlier experiments with smaller displacement V8s in Fieros were any indication, the 455 would be a success, and would look very professional as well.