FAI options for a 3400

[XenoWolf]

I may be getting a 3400 off of a guy that contacted me during the last few days, and was wondering:

What options are out there for Forced Air Induction? I'm looking at either turbocharger kits, or superchargers... for a reasonable price (I'm not rich by any means) and that will give signifigant HP/Torque gains (especially torque in the top end.. :D).

[tido_29]

well for the 3.4

Turbo
itsturbo.com they arent any good. blew up 3 engines already (so i have heard)

phanthom on gagt.com is working on a whole set up 3,500. should be done in about 2 weeks.

exploiteracing .com (or something like that) has a turbo also. 2,500 but you have to buy there headers which are 700.


Supercharger.
you have RSM which can be found on the links. about 4000+

you also have magsoon (spelling) which isnt made anymore but sometimes people sell there old one.

and i think aleroguy (screen name, but i am not too sure on his exact screen name) on gagt.com is making a supercharger also.

[ccarr8705]

Whats the diff between and turbo and a supercharger?

[Themeneea]

they do the same thing but in a different way. a turbo runs of the exhuast, thats were turbo lag comes from. a super charger runs off a belt attached to the accesorys. they both have here pros and cons, turbos are hot and super chargers are bigger for example.

[XenoWolf]

Alright, thanks for the help. The main perfomance differences in the two are that Superchargers lack any 'turbo lag' that happens when a turbo is still starting to 'charge' up with the exhaust gasses. The others are like were mentioned.. temperature/size/what they're ran off of.. etc

[HondaCivicsSuck]

in the 1/4 superchargers are better off the line ... and turbos are better topend

[99SEDude]

Also, isn't there a limit on how much pressure a supercharger generates compared to a turbo? In the sense that the supercharger will spin as fast as the belt can spin it, so if the engine is not spinning any faster then the supercharger won't create more pressure. Then the turbo which feeds off the exhaust could virtually have no limit on how much pressure it can generate because the more exhaust coming out of the engine the faster it will spin and the more pressure it will generate. Anyways, does that make sense? Am I right or are they pretty much the same?

[tido_29]

i think you mean

a turbo can handle up to 15PSI (certain ones) and can be put on a grand am and adjusted to 9PSI if desired.

as apposed to a supercharger that will only generate a certain PSI and that cant be tampered w/.

I think that is what you mean?

[XenoWolf]

You can't control boost on a SC? (Probably a stupid question)

[ccarr8705]

So which should I get then? Turbo Or SC?

[cyrrus]

hey not to throw this thread all out of whack. but is it possible to place a super for low end and all have a turbo for top end. You would problably think that the car would totally over heat with this much induction. Hey just a though what do you guy's think.

[XenoWolf]

I think (THINK..) I've heard of Super/Turbo combos used before on different cars.. but our internals can't really handle too much boost (A good 10psi supercharger alone would be about as much as you'd want to push.. before doing some major internal work), so unless you can do that I wouldn't really see a point. Good idea though..

[jazzman]

yeah, and there is almost no possible way to get both a supercharger and a turbo into our engie bay's.

Derek

[USMCspy]

Actually 15psi is still stock rating on some cars. The highest I've seen personally was 38psi on a 91 Talon TSi. Turbos generally don't start boost till about 3000 rpm's otherwise there would be too much lag for any top-end performance. The best way to get around the issue is bi-turbo (not twin) where you have one small turbo for lower rpm's and one large turbo for up top. Superchargers are generally more reliable as there is less that could go wrong, but turbos have higher performance, as there is always supercharger lag, it's from the belt. you are always robbing to add, where as with a turbo it's not felt as much and with a good turbo tech you wont see it at all

[potheadrme]

well i am kind of dumb but it takes hp to make hp with a supercharger but with a turbo you get free hp

[RaDiKaL]

turbos are free power while superchargers cost HP to make HP. I like turbos because once your at boost you feel a surge of power. (I love driving WRX's). Plus turbos are on demand power. They wont generate full boost unless you floor the pedal, even at 5500 RPM

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by HondaCivicsSuck
in the 1/4 superchargers are better off the line ... and turbos are better topend
Sorry to say thats not entirely true.

[SPECIALGAGT]

Originally posted by RaDiKaL
turbos are free power while superchargers cost HP to make HP. I like turbos because once your at boost you feel a surge of power. (I love driving WRX's). Plus turbos are on demand power. They wont generate full boost unless you floor the pedal, even at 5500 RPM
Why don't we go ask Don "Big Daddy" Garlits why he doesn't just switch to a turbo' if it gives away all that "free power" ?? If you can start off the line at 5,000~6,000 rpm, like dragsters do, there is no "lag-time", and no turbo which will fit alongside our puny 3100s and 3400s can match the litre/per/revolution boost of a belt-drive, GMC 871 blower. "Real Men Don't Get "turbo-d, They Get Blown." But a turbo' is all I can afford to install right now(sigh)

[Themeneea]

Originally posted by RaDiKaL
turbos are free power while superchargers cost HP to make HP. I like turbos because once your at boost you feel a surge of power. (I love driving WRX's). Plus turbos are on demand power. They wont generate full boost unless you floor the pedal, even at 5500 RPM

the 3.8 doesnt make boost till you floor it, and it comes in a surge as well

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by RaDiKaL
turbos are free power while superchargers cost HP to make HP. I like turbos because once your at boost you feel a surge of power. (I love driving WRX's). Plus turbos are on demand power. They wont generate full boost unless you floor the pedal, even at 5500 RPM
That was the worst explanation ever.

Turbos are not "free power" turbos are exhaust gas driven, meaning there is a degree of resistance on the exhaust side. Its not as much as a Supercharger but its by no means "Free power".

By surge your talking about turbo lag. Your engine must create exhaust before it can spin the turbine and build boost.
supercharges build boost in relation to RPM. Granted Supercharges do have bypass valves like turbos have wastegates, but in 95% of SC Engines your going to make less boost at 2000 RPM than you will at 4 or 5000.

So "Surge" of power is probably not the best Explanation for turbo lag.

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by Blackrider
Granted Supercharges do have bypass valves like turbos have wastegates
Superchargers:
blow-off valves to regulate pressure

Turbo chargers:
blow-off valves to regulate pressure
wastegates to regulate the turbine rotational speed


...correct me if i'm wrong.

[SCGA1]

Originally posted by Bjornboy81
Superchargers:
blow-off valves to regulate pressure

Turbo chargers:
blow-off valves to regulate pressure
wastegates to regulate the turbine rotational speed


...correct me if i'm wrong. Superchargers - bypass valve regulates pressure

Turbo- wastegate regulates pressure.

[SPECIALGAGT]

Well, really there is no "by-pass" valve on a SUPER-charger. The whole setup is mathed up to give max boost at very specific RPM. The "valve" in this context is a safety-valve, set at a much higher (two or three times higher) pressure than the max boost expected while running the vehicle...The "safety" part of it comes in when (we would hope NEVER) a misfire causes the pressurized contents in the blower-plenum under the rotors and in the manifold above the valves to ignite. P.S. : this will not be a controlled burn !! The pressure of this flame-front would try to turn the impellers of the SUPERcharger in reverse, causing a lot of dollar-damage. Instead, the pop-off valve releases the burning-gas' pressure. By this time the fuel-supply to the intake ABOVE the SUPER-charger has been interrupted, so no further flame is generated. The vehicle has shut down. If the SUPER-charger "bypass-valve" were to open up while running, and "by-pass" anything to the atmosphere, it would be an extremely flammable air/fuel mixture. This is universally considered a "no-no". In a word: NEVER do you want your SUPERCHARGER valve to go off ! ! ! ! On the TURBO-charger, the "waste-gate" usually diverts INERT ( for the most part ) EXHAUST GASSES from reaching the impeller, and passes them toward the muffler-side of the exhaust system. Not much danger there. There is a lot more to it, but if I had my choice, using somebody else's $$$ I would go for the SUPERCHARGER : it looks so NASTY !! But for StEaLtH... no-body needs to know you've got a twin-turbo under there !!

[SCGA1]

[

[SCGA1]

Originally posted by SPECIALGAGT
Well, really there is no "by-pass" valve on a SUPER-charger. The whole setup is mathed up to give max boost at very specific RPM. The "valve" in this context is a safety-valve, set at a much higher (two or three times higher) pressure than the max boost expected while running the vehicle...The "safety" part of it comes in when (we would hope NEVER) a misfire causes the pressurized contents in the blower-plenum under the rotors and in the manifold above the valves to ignite. P.S. : this will not be a controlled burn !! The pressure of this flame-front would try to turn the impellers of the SUPERcharger in reverse, causing a lot of dollar-damage. Instead, the pop-off valve releases the burning-gas' pressure. By this time the fuel-supply to the intake ABOVE the SUPER-charger has been interrupted, so no further flame is generated. The vehicle has shut down. If the SUPER-charger "bypass-valve" were to open up while running, and "by-pass" anything to the atmosphere, it would be an extremely flammable air/fuel mixture. This is universally considered a "no-no". In a word: NEVER do you want your SUPERCHARGER valve to go off ! ! ! ! On the TURBO-charger, the "waste-gate" usually diverts INERT ( for the most part ) EXHAUST GASSES from reaching the impeller, and passes them toward the muffler-side of the exhaust system. Not much danger there. There is a lot more to it, but if I had my choice, using somebody else's $$$ I would go for the SUPERCHARGER : it looks so NASTY !! But for StEaLtH... no-body needs to know you've got a twin-turbo under there !! Actually, the boost pressure is determined by the rotor package and pulley size on the Supercharger. You are correct in stating that, nothing is expelled into the air. The 'bypass valve', serves to maintain vacuum under 'non-boost' conditions and virtually eliminating parasitic drag in this state. The SC produces power in a linear fashion(building as rpms rise).

[Rayz]

Originally posted by cyrrus
hey not to throw this thread all out of whack. but is it possible to place a super for low end and all have a turbo for top end.
I saw on the Speed channel a 300zx twin turbo with a nitrous system just to give it a hole shot till the turbos spooled up. :D

[SPECIALGAGT]

This, which you state : "...boost pressure is determined by the rotor package and pulley size on the Supercharger. " is precisely what I meant by saying, "mathed up, at a very specific rpm"; a whole lot of formulae must be considered on a top-side mounted positive-displacement blower. Some older installations had the blower ahead of the engine, and spun directly from the crank, and some even had over/under -drives to give proper boost-pressure. Hallibrand even built a model of their quick-change rear-ratio machine for use on in-the-lead blowers.
Ford Diesel trucks (and other brands, too ) have had a dual-package of turbo- and supercharger combination for both low-end boost and top-end boost. Both -chargers ran all the time, with a gate directing the highest boost into the intake manifold. Not too practical on the street with no under-hood room.