Horsepower Gains

[56chev]

- Chip - 3hp
- CAI - 4hp
- Mufflers - 2hp
- DISII & Wires - 4hp
- 62 MM TB - 5hp
- TB Heat Shield - 0hp
- Ported and Polished Intake Manifold - 5 hp
- Relocated IAT - 1 hp
- TB Spacer - 2 hp
- Header - 4 hp
- Highflow Cat/No resinator - 2 hp
- Full 2.25" Exhaust - 4 hp
- Header Wrapped with Cool Tape - 1 hp

With the above mods, you should increase your 2.4 performance from 150 HP to 187 HP at the crank.

Now, onto the big stuff:

- 2.3 HO Intake Manifold w/ 2.3 TB - 10hp
- Custom TB Spacer for 2.3 Manifold - 2hp
- New injectors - Depends
- 086 Head - 15hp
- "Secret Cams" aka 2.3 90-94 Exhaust Cam and 2.3 Intake Cam -15 - hp
- Ecu Reflashing - 0hp

With the bolt on mods and these mods, you can effectively increase your HP to 225 hp

You can go farther into the motor, but there are so many options they cant be listed in one post, so, here are some good places to look:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar49935.htm

http://www.beretta.net/behind_the_wheel/dyno_results2.htm

http://users.skynet.be/nvmygtz/ref.htm

http://www.ny-jbodies.org/forum/library.asp

http://www.oldschoolcavy.com/Cavy%20info/quad_mods.htm

So long ricers!

Intake:

http://rksport.com
http://mantapart.com
http://induction-dynamics.com/

Throttle Body Spacers:

http://summitracing.com
http://jegs.com

Throttle Bodies:



Now, these #s were put together by me, so they could be somewhat off. I got some of the info from the infamous fbod. Give me your thoughts, and lets make this a sticky :D

Im also still making mods to the list, especially the links. Bed time :D

We should also do this with the 3100's and 3400's, but I dont know so much about them.

[kubiache]

ummm...no. Sorry to break this to you but horsepower gains are not linear. 10hp + 5hp doesn't equal 15hp. Horsepower gains are going to depend on how well all those things work together with each other, too.

[96gtcoupe]

A question about the "secret cams" I have a 96 gt, would it be wise to go back as opposed to forward in reference to performance? What makes the older cams better for performance in say the 96gagt?

[ecko70]

hey kubiache do you have any cardomains with your car, or can you list some of your engine specs? 14.86 is a damn nice time and im just curious to see what you have under your hood

[kubiache]

hit the WWW link on my post. It's my cardomain.

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by kubiache
ummm...no. Sorry to break this to you but horsepower gains are not linear. 10hp + 5hp doesn't equal 15hp. Horsepower gains are going to depend on how well all those things work together with each other, too.

Exactly! Plus:

- DISII & Wires - more like 0 HP, new wires get you nothing.

- Relocated IAT - 0 again...fooling the PCM is a waste of time since it only throws off your A/F ratio

- Mufflers - Probably less than 1 HP if anything

- Chip - There is no "chip" for the 3400

- Highflow Cat/No resinator - Not really a necessity until you start getting into major upgrades and even then it's debatable.

Plus these numbers all depend on where the HP rating actually started. HP gains are basically in percentages, not in hard numbers. For example, a CAI will give you about 5%.

Also some modifications are only enhancements and do not really show up as a HP gain, but will actually change the overall performance. Another example is a recalibrated MAF. While it will result in about a 3 or 4 HP gain on a 3400 with a stock air box, it may give you an additional 10 if you are using a CAI. But which mod really gave you the increase? It's not either, but the combination of the two. Plus the MAF will shift your torque back down the power band after you lose it by going to a larger exhaust. Adding new plugs and wires add nothing, but will get you back lost HP when these parts get old and worn.

So what I'm really getting at is that discussing HP gains for single modifications is going to vary by what has been or not been done to the engine before the mod was done so it's impossible to make a list going by gains.

Dave (kubiache) - Have you done a dyno on yours yet? The numbers have to be pretty impressive.

[30thAnnGAGT]

Also, to keep in mind, every block that comes out of Lansing Michigan when put under a sonic test yeilds different results. I've seen guys take a CAI, and exhaust and go run 15 flats. I've see others do the same thing and can't crack 15.5. Our cars are so unpredictable that you may have a "freak day" and break an all time personal best. The next day you may be able to pedal your bike faster.

[jayhawk]

You forgot the important HP gains.

Decal on your car: 20-50HP
Chrome oil cap: 10HP
Thumping Stereo: 15HP
Hat hanging off rearview: 5HP
Clear Tailights: 25HP
Big Wing: 20HP
Flat black hood made to LOOK like a carbon fiber, or a ripoff of Spoon: 300HP
1 wiper in front: 5HP
Driving 40MPH in 2nd gear to seem] like the car is fast: 3000 HP

[kubiache]

Originally posted by Old Guy
Dave (kubiache) - Have you done a dyno on yours yet? The numbers have to be pretty impressive.

Unfortunately, no I haven't. Though I guess it's not that expensive, I more prefer track results, so I spend my money there. :D

Thanks for reinforcing / clarifying my point, Tom.

[grandizzle]

Originally posted by 96gtcoupe
A question about the "secret cams" I have a 96 gt, would it be wise to go back as opposed to forward in reference to performance? What makes the older cams better for performance in say the 96gagt?


:D

first off you dont have cams, you have a pushrod.....

the reason the "old" cams are better is because their incresed lift and duration, in lamens terms that means they let more air in. :)

[kubiache]

Originally posted by grandizzle
:D

first off you dont have cams, you have a pushrod.....



What the hell are you talking about? Of course he has a cam.

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by grandizzle
:D

first off you dont have cams, you have a pushrod.....

the reason the "old" cams are better is because their incresed lift and duration, in lamens terms that means they let more air in. :)

:jenny: The last time I looked I think the pushrods are "pushed" by the cam.......guess I was wrong :lol:

This should help you to understand how a pushrod engine works....

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm

[Themeneea]

"- Mufflers - Probably less than 1 HP if anything"

makes an $500 exhuast not worth it then :(

[Old Guy]

:notworth:

[ccarr8705]

- Chip - There is no "chip" for the 3400

ASE

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by ccarr8705
ASE

Technically it's not a chip...it's a re-program. Gotta send your PCM to them...

[Pte Socks]

Ok well heres the general specs for a 3400
1) CAI - 7-8WHP
2) Headers - 15-18 WHP
3) Performance muffler - about 5 WHP
4) Heads - this depends on what stage and what other mods you have. Stage 2 heads are said to run about 15 -18 WHP, but it aint cheap, in the vicinity of $1200US. Now like I have said, this could greatly depend on what stage and what other mods you have
5) Chip - either ASE or DHP - about 10 WHP
6) Cat-back exhaust - 10-12 WHP
7) P&P UIM/LIM - generally 5 WHP, again, depending on the extent of the P&P
8) Module - JET speed module and others which change out Air/Fuel Ratio - 5-8 WHP
9) High-flow cat - 2-3 WHP
10) 62mm TB - 3-4 WHP
11) P&P TB - 2-3 WHP

Tips. Wires dont add hp. Like Old guy said, they help when the other wear out. Most of these mods are connected to airflow, The rule is this, the more air in and more air out, the more HP and Torque. Dont forget about your torque here either. Getting 3" piping will help you high end hp quite a bit, but kills your torque. Generally, the torque will rise in unison with the HP, GENERALLY! Also remember, that the car is only as strong as its weakest link. If you have everything setup on this list except for an exhaust, the gains you will see will not be nearly as much as they could be. A good rule to follow, if you add something to your intake, the next thing you should add is something to your outtake. Well thats it for me, that exhausts my knowledge on gains.

[96gtcoupe]

Originally posted by grandizzle
:D

first off you dont have cams, you have a pushrod.....

the reason the "old" cams are better is because their incresed lift and duration, in lamens terms that means they let more air in. :)



Preciate the response dogs, but do me a solid? Try not to speak as if I'm an idiot. Just say what you have to say and leave the "lame" remarks behind. I needed an answer to a ?, nothing more. Preciate it and thanks.

[grandizzle]

Originally posted by kubiache
What the hell are you talking about? Of course he has a cam.

notice i said camS

i know basically how it works jsut saying the "secret" swap doesnt pertain to him.

[kubiache]

In reference to getting rebuilt heads...what good do you think they're going to do you without a cam? They could flow 50,000cfm, but if nothings holding the valves open longer it's not getting any of that extra air/fuel into the chamber.

-save your money until the cam in made.

[grandizzle]

Originally posted by Old Guy
Technically it's not a chip...it's a re-program. Gotta send your PCM to them...

wrong.

It is a chip, you send it to them so they can properly piggy back it onto the regualr ECM....its not an entirely new ECM, but its still a little chip nonetheless.

http://www.asechips.com/IMAGES/ECU/ECU%20pontia.jpg

[Old Guy]

All I was saying is that unlike on most cars where you can just buy a chip, the PCM in a GA is not configured for a swappable chip. ASE has to modify the PCM to accept it. GA's have not been the easiest cars to modify since there are not many aftermarket options. Right now as far as PCM modifications go we have DHP, ASE, "Jet" , which is actually just fools the stock PCM and one other that I've heard of but haven't seen yet.

I agree with kubiache - save your money until you can get the cam...

[grandizzle]

Originally posted by 96gtcoupe
Preciate the response dogs, but do me a solid? Try not to speak as if I'm an idiot. Just say what you have to say and leave the "lame" remarks behind. I needed an answer to a ?, nothing more. Preciate it and thanks.

obviously you are an idiot if your asking if 2.3l DOHC cams will swap into your OHV v6....

[grandizzle]

Originally posted by Old Guy
All I was saying is that unlike on most cars where you can just buy a chip, the PCM in a GA is not configured for a swappable chip. ASE has to modify the PCM to accept it. GA's have not been the easiest cars to modify since there are not many aftermarket options. Right now as far as PCM modifications go we have DHP, ASE, "Jet" , which is actually just fools the stock PCM and one other that I've heard of but haven't seen yet.

I agree with kubiache - save your money until you can get the cam...

right, really the chip is worthless aside getting rid of the speed/rev limiter......i mean electrical stuff is cool but only hardware makes the true difference in the end.

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by grandizzle
... i mean electrical stuff is cool but only hardware makes the true difference in the end.

Well, in my or the Old Guy's day, YES but todays computer controlled vehicles can be adjusted to have a ton of additional performance through electrical mods provided the right ones are done :)

[grandizzle]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
Well, in my or the Old Guy's day, YES but todays computer controlled vehicles can be adjusted to have a ton of additional performance through electrical mods provided the right ones are done :)

true but im still wary to invest too much into electrical components when you can tell the power by hardware by looking at it and using common sense :)


and what i meant is more along the lines off....i dont expect to buy a 20$ box off ebay and get 50whp, where as i might expect 10 from a cam swap.

[kubiache]

Have you heard of DHP? They're nothing like ASE where they just change a few parameters. DHP adjusts things such as timing, fuel levels, tranny line pressure, etc, and they are able to squeeze a few extra hp out of the electrical system, and more importantly, make what you have run to it's full potential. In the old days you could just adjust timing by turning the distributor...can't exactly turn your coilpacks now can you? In modern cars, things need to be electrically tuned properly to get the most out of them.

[99blackgt]

the old days musta been awesome in the way you could do mods. computers are such a big part of what goes on in cars these days that electronic upgrades can help as well.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by kubiache
ummm...no. Sorry to break this to you but horsepower gains are not linear. 10hp + 5hp doesn't equal 15hp. Horsepower gains are going to depend on how well all those things work together with each other, too.
I agree.

And more accurately gains should be rated as a percentage.

One thing that kills me is when BrandX says their item will make 10hp when in fact it could make up to 10hp on a healthy V8.

[matts]

Originally posted by jayhawk
You forgot the important HP gains.

Decal on your car: 20-50HP
Chrome oil cap: 10HP
Thumping Stereo: 15HP
Hat hanging off rearview: 5HP
Clear Tailights: 25HP
Big Wing: 20HP
Flat black hood made to LOOK like a carbon fiber, or a ripoff of Spoon: 300HP
1 wiper in front: 5HP
Driving 40MPH in 2nd gear to seem] like the car is fast: 3000 HP


i knew it was coming from someone somewhere :lol:

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by 99blackgt
the old days musta been awesome in the way you could do mods. computers are such a big part of what goes on in cars these days that electronic upgrades can help as well.

To be perfectly honest with you, the new cars just aren't as much fun. :(

[Bronco]

befor i owned my 99 GA i ownd a 1964 oldsmobile.....and i must say it was so much easy to work on when something went wrong with it parts were much cheper...and just also more fun to tinker around with.....thats one of the things i miss with that car

[Colin]

Originally posted by Old Guy
To be perfectly honest with you, the new cars just aren't as much fun. :( The new cars do everything better , they're faster / pollute less / get better gas mileage / have better driveabilty . All thanks to the computer . Hey , i remember back in 86 when the FI Mustangs came out everybody thought modding cars was over . ( Oh No A Computer ! ) Look at them now .........:D

[BBT]

Originally posted by kubiache
ummm...no. Sorry to break this to you but horsepower gains are not linear. 10hp + 5hp doesn't equal 15hp. Horsepower gains are going to depend on how well all those things work together with each other, too.

Pretty much what I have been saying since Day 2 on this board (don't think I joined on Day 1). :lol:

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by Colin
The new cars do everything better , they're faster / pollute less / get better gas mileage / have better driveabilty . All thanks to the computer .

I agree with you to a point. They do everything better but at what cost? For example, to get the 3400 up to say 260 HP you're looking at somewhere around $4K+, and that doesn't include the new tranny you'll need to have to handle it.

In comparison, you can increase the HP in an old carb non-computerized motor up 60% for probably 3/4ths of that and not have to replace the tranny. It's an "apples to oranges" comparison at best.

But as far as driveability....the new cars beat the old ones hands down!!

[matts]

yeah, i want to join in on this conversation. im with old guy all the way on this one. you can make computer controlled, fuel injected vehicles run real good, but it cost SO much more. a MPFI intake for my truck to support 500 horses will run you a couple grand, literally. but with a carbeurated vehicle you can get a carb and a intake that will support massive amounts of power for.....$700. with computer vehicles you have to be careful of the knock sensor when installing a cam. i ran into this problem just recently with my motor build. couldn't get the cam i really wanted because of the computer :(. but it's ok

[Colin]

Originally posted by Old Guy
I agree with you to a point. They do everything better but at what cost? What would be the cost if it didn't evolve ? The Genies out of the bottle , and it's not going back .

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by Colin
The Genies out of the bottle , and it's not going back .

:lol: Nope he's not!!

Thank God there are still a few old muscle cars out there so the neanderthals like myself have something to play with!! :D