OFFICIAL NEWS ON PRODUCTION OF THE 05 Grand Am

[30thAnnGAGT]

Straight from General Motors.....

The only Grand Am available for '05 will be the GT Coupe, in what will be limited production. That is all I can say for now.

[SCGA1]

Originally posted by 30thAnnGAGT
Straight from General Motors.....

The only Grand Am available for '05 will be the GT Coupe, in what will be limited production. That is all I can say for now. That was soo informative, Adam. :lol:

[30thAnnGAGT]

Thanks Keith! I knew you would appreciate it! :)

There were just a lot of rumors floating around....some I had heard

A. Full production would continue in '05
B. Prduction would continue so long as there was public demand
C. They will cancelling the line completely after '04

So, I went to one of my sources at GM and got permission to share that much. Beyond that my lips have to stay sealed. :)

[XxJuleSxX]

So, I went to one of my sources at GM and got permission to share that much. Beyond that my lips have to stay sealed.


well u could "accidently" *cough* out the other info....then "accidentally" hit the Post button then "Accidentally" forget how to erase it :lol:

[XxJuleSxX]

or u could give "hints" and we can guess :)

ur not really telling us then :)

[30thAnnGAGT]

I'm telling you what I'm able. GM does put a certain amount of trust in me. So when they ask me not to say anything, I need to keep my mouth shut :)

[99GTam]

hmmmm........ i wonder..... they oughta make 4dr's too.

[dearim]

I'm hoping they'll be smart (rare for GM upper management, but it happens occasionally) and put out a special-edition with MORE POWER!

...Or maybe bring out a few items on the '05 which can be put on '99-'04s as a refit. That would be nice. It probably isn't going to happen, but I can always wish.

[Rayz]

I'm guessing that the Grand-Am will run as long as the old style Malibu is available. I heard that GM is keeping the old Malibu for Fleet rentals so not to degrade the new Malibu's Image.

[00gagt]

i don't think they will contiinue to make the grand am just becuz of the fact that they wont continue to build one car on the lines that used to make 4or 5 cars the G6 is not geting built in lansing Mi they will buid something else on them lines they are going to stop producn in like mid summer

[00gagt]

correction they will stop makeing 4doors in may or june they haven't decided yet. does that mean the G6 buy july or aug?????????

[gold dragon]

I'd have to say that the halt in production of the Grand Ams could turn out to be a wrong turn they have to know they are going to lose a lot of money but hopefully what ever they're planning to replace it with is a good seller but still they should never have even thought to take the Grand Am off the market.

[pontiacgtboy]

Originally posted by gold dragon
I'd have to say that the halt in production of the Grand Ams could turn out to be a wrong turn they have to know they are going to lose a lot of money but hopefully what ever they're planning to replace it with is a good seller but still they should never have even thought to take the Grand Am off the market.

now THAT is one long sentence

[Inflicted6480]

Word is that the next gen Grand Am will have a base 2.4 pushing 170hp, a new 3.5 debuts that puts out 200, and in 06, they might consider a 3.9 V6 GTP version that kicks out 240hp (naturally aspirated of course)

The G6 is the next Grand Am. I'm not too keen on the 4 door styling, hopefully the 2 door looks good.

The Grand Am is Pontiac's best selling car on the market, and goes head to head with the Cavalier for top sales for GM in general.

[SCGA1]

Originally posted by Inflicted6480
Word is that the next gen Grand Am will have a base 2.4 pushing 170hp, a new 3.5 debuts that puts out 200, and in 06, they might consider a 3.9 V6 GTP version that kicks out 240hp (naturally aspirated of course)

The G6 is the next Grand Am. I'm not too keen on the 4 door styling, hopefully the 2 door looks good.

The Grand Am is Pontiac's best selling car on the market, and goes head to head with the Cavalier for top sales for GM in general. There will be a GTP with a 245 hp 3.9L V6 and available 6 speed manual. This model will be out in the Spring of 2005.;)

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by Inflicted6480
Word is that the next gen Grand Am will have a base 2.4 pushing 170hp, a new 3.5 debuts that puts out 200, and in 06, they might consider a 3.9 V6 GTP version that kicks out 240hp (naturally aspirated of course)

The G6 is the next Grand Am. I'm not too keen on the 4 door styling, hopefully the 2 door looks good.

The Grand Am is Pontiac's best selling car on the market, and goes head to head with the Cavalier for top sales for GM in general. The 3.5L is the same 3.5L in the new chevy malibu its a decent engine

[Mike Reyna]

Originally posted by 30thAnnGAGT
Thanks Keith! I knew you would appreciate it! :)

There were just a lot of rumors floating around....some I had heard

A. Full production would continue in '05
B. Prduction would continue so long as there was public demand
C. They will cancelling the line completely after '04

So, I went to one of my sources at GM and got permission to share that much. Beyond that my lips have to stay sealed. :)

That's what I heard too. BTW I also have my GM sources. :D

[RamAirGAGT]

I wish they would have gone with the GXP line!

[josh]

will this GA be RWD :)

[Requiem]

I, for one, certainly hope that the G6 doesn't replace the Grand Am... My heart simply belongs to these cars. :p

The GTP model sounds exciting... can't wait to pop the hood of that car. >D

[white04ecoGA]

I like the new G6 especially the fact that there will be a 245 hp 6 speed available. Downside is the G6 is alot more expensive, and that basically means the 04' is gonna be my ride for a long time.

[30thAnnGAGT]

Originally posted by Mike Reyna
That's what I heard too. BTW I also have my GM sources. :D

Nothing like having the brand managers phone number on speed dial :D LOL! :)

[Prospeeder]

how do you get sources like that, friends or working for the dealer?

[30thAnnGAGT]

Actually a lot of my sources did come though knowing friends, and then continuing the relationship with the people I have met.

It was actually through a friend that I met the Marketing Manager for the Grand Am. It was at a GM preview night that he invited me to that I met the brand manager as well as teh plant manager/lead designers for the GM concept cars. The wharehouse where they keep them is practically in my backyard.

I'm also friends with a couple of the general managers of dealerships around the area.

I also know a contributing editor to high performance pontiac magazine that's introduced me to a couple of people.

My cousin also drives an NHRA pro-stock car sponsored by GM.

It's meeting and maintaing relationships that allow me to get done what I need to. Bugging them about once a month, but not making a pest of myself :) and above all maintaing trust so that I don't get "cut out of the loop"

[01GrandAmGT]

I've always liked how Grand Am's interior has always been driver oriented. Like everything is there in your cockpit and it looks sporty too. I'm glad the new G6 is like this too.

I always wondered why the Grand Am never had the "GTP" model. I thought there was a rumor that the standard engine on the G6 would be a V6 engine?

[enjoi]

the G6 is going to replace the grand am from what i've heard (my dad works with GM and as far as he knows the G6 is replacing the grand am and should cost around the same because they'd be lacking a car in the price range). if you check the pontiac site there's a preview of the G6 which i think looks better than the current Grand Am's but isn't going to have any rebates for a while since it's a new fleet vehicle. i'm probably going to get a fully loaded Grand Am GT since the rebates are good right now and i get $1,000 extra in supplier discount and then the supplier discount on top of that :D

[30thAnnGAGT]

Originally posted by 01GrandAmGT
I've always liked how Grand Am's interior has always been driver oriented. Like everything is there in your cockpit and it looks sporty too. I'm glad the new G6 is like this too.

I always wondered why the Grand Am never had the "GTP" model. I thought there was a rumor that the standard engine on the G6 would be a V6 engine?

The new interior of the G6 is nice.

The newer G6 will have a GTP model come late 05 or early 06

[HondaCivicsSuck]

99-04 GRandams kick ass! They have improved the car so much over the years with the looks and power and now they kill it for the ugly G6.

GM is so dumb they killed the F-body for the GTO "which isnt selling at all"
and now there killing the grandam for the G6 :roll2:

[Requiem]

Originally posted by HondaCivicsSuck
99-04 GRandams kick ass! They have improved the car so much over the years with the looks and power and now they kill it for the ugly G6.

GM is so dumb they killed the F-body for the GTO "which isnt selling at all"
and now there killing the grandam for the G6 :roll2:

The G6 looks too much like an import for me to accept it as a Pontiac... so yes, it is ugly.

And the real reason they're discontinuing the GA is because GM realized that the GA had intentions of taking over the world.

I wish.

[Gimli]

It's funny how from looking at Pontiac's website right now the base G6 is called "G6 - 6 cylinder" and the upscale model "G6 GT". Why call it "G6 - 6 cylinder" when they both have the same V6?

Anyway, I like the way the GT has more colours available than the base model (that's one thing I didn't like about the GAGT) and how they have a lot more options available.

I also like the base wheel on the GT (Eagle won't be selling too many polished 077 for these!). I like the console, especially the air vents, probably the only thing that remotely looks like the GA.

[want2modmygt]

i miss the GA already... my baby, Red Booty, is my only love! I used to try to keep money in my account in case I took a chick somewhere or something and I needed a little extra cash to pay for her. well my grand am is my chick and all my extra cash I used to keep for girls is now in my car!!!!!!! I wouldnt do that for a corsica! lol. only my grand am!

[Prospeeder]

i thought the G6 was gonna have a GTP version or something with a 3900 V6 with Displacment on Demand option? what happend to that?

-edit- i didnt see ur post sorry it will be here fall of 05 :banghead:

[Fusion_Orange]

Ive seen a bunch of 05 GT and GT1 coupes on the dealer lots up here in Wisconsin. I didnt notice anything different from the 04 models that are out right now. The only odd thing I saw was a GT1 coupe with cloth- I didnt know they still offered GT1's with cloth.

[Prospeeder]

umm grand ams right, they should have cloth, i dont really like leather

[scotiez]

Well when i bought my 04 GT Sedan on the 9th of August i asked alot of questions concerning the GAs. Also i have the 05 booklet that lists all the options for the 05 GTs. which looks to be the same as the 04s but only avalible in the coupe. The SC/T appearence package is also available.
As for the G6 he said they expect to have some on their lot some time in September, but will be more expensive then the GAs.

OH the rebates on the GAs right now are to good to pass up. Thats why i traded my 2000 SE in for my GT. One more thing... out of about 40 or 50 GAs this dealership had in there lot they only had 2 GTs and i got one of them. Thank god i have been watching the price of this car since they got it in about a month and a half before i finally got it.

[Fusion_Orange]

Originally posted by scotiez
Well when i bought my 04 GT Sedan on the 9th of August i asked alot of questions concerning the GAs. Also i have the 05 booklet that lists all the options for the 05 GTs. which looks to be the same as the 04s but only avalible in the coupe. The SC/T appearence package is also available.
As for the G6 he said they expect to have some on their lot some time in September, but will be more expensive then the GAs.

OH the rebates on the GAs right now are to good to pass up. Thats why i traded my 2000 SE in for my GT. One more thing... out of about 40 or 50 GAs this dealership had in there lot they only had 2 GTs and i got one of them. Thank god i have been watching the price of this car since they got it in about a month and a half before i finally got it.

I cant wait to get done with the lawsuit my current GT is in- There are a few new 03's floating around in wisconsin that I could get for dirt cheap. Hopefully they are still there when my lawsuit is done.

[Fusion_Orange]

Originally posted by Prospeeder
umm grand ams right, they should have cloth, i dont really like leather

I know they have cloth- I just hadn't seen the GT1 package (power seat and steering wheel controls) offered with cloth since 2000.

[Pte Socks]

what I hate is the G6 engine, yes its nice, but the damn fuel economy goes out the door. Bah! I already only get about 22 mpg with my dman lead foot, how the hell am I supposed to drive a car that has even less? That said, its very tempting to sell my 99 to get a new model for dirt cheap, the newer the car in the production line, the less problems on it.

[Prospeeder]

what.... its gonna have dicplasment on demand and it wil turn into a 3cyl wile cruising on the highway so u will get good gas, and maby u should drive normal and u wouldnt have that problem

[30thAnnGAGT]

There will be 05 Coupes. Look for the limited run to be started in March of 05. with production ceasing around mid june.

[Prospeeder]

ok i hope 05 dose have coupes, 06 will be full production right?

[vainot4u]

I wonder if we will be able to do engine transplants from the new G6. You know someone wraps there new G6 around a tree and the engine and tranny are still good. But we will have to see that could end up being ALOT of work. Jumping from 170 BHP in SE 3.4L or 175 BHP in GT to 200 BHP would make a nice difference, don't you think?

Or although a long shot the 3.9L with the 6 speed manual........hmmmmmmmm imagine. ;) :cool:

[Prospeeder]

245hp w/ the 3.9 i heard, jump to that

[vainot4u]

Makes me feel all tingly inside.:D

[03GT-SC/T]

Originally posted by Requiem
I, for one, certainly hope that the G6 doesn't replace the Grand Am... My heart simply belongs to these cars. :p

The GTP model sounds exciting... can't wait to pop the hood of that car. >D

Same here.

[the doors lock]

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
the newer the car in the production line, the less problems on it.

interesting. could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

[thegeswho3]

the g6 is replacing the grand am, well, as far as an exciting car goes. If you just look at the g6 as the "new" grand am we will all be ok. Its going to look better, go faster and have much much better quality.

[2K SE]

Originally posted by thegeswho3
the g6 is replacing the grand am, well, as far as an exciting car goes. If you just look at the g6 as the "new" grand am we will all be ok. Its going to look better, go faster and have much much better quality.

What do you mean it will have better quality? It's a Pontiac. :lol:

[Subtle_Cynicism]

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
That said, its very tempting to sell my 99 to get a new model for dirt cheap, the newer the car in the production line, the less problems on it.

Also keep in mind, however, that nice changes for cars generally come about the second-third year it's out (GTO), and most cars, from what I've been told, of the first year type have more problems than later year models.

[b2089]

It makes more sense to me that they would keep the 2 door GA since the G6 is a 4 door. It's what GM did in the past, a car was either 2 or 4, but not both.

The cancleled the 4 door Sunfire and it's still around.

[Loopy]

The G6 will have a coupe model out sometime this summer, I believe. I think that's why they kept the GA coupe for this year. If the G6 coupe had been ready, I'm sure the GA would have disappeared completely this year.

[b2089]

In that case the G6 will be the only pontiac that you can get as a coupe or 4 door. Bad thinking on their part in my opinion. I have a 4 door grand am so I like them, but a 2 door only version fits the current line up better than cancelling it and forcing people to buy the G6. Their sales will suffer.

They'd be better off cancelling the Sunfire. The Solstice can fill it's shoes and offer people a step up.

I pray that they will change their mind about the G series names. They tried that in the 80's with the t1000 t3000 and t6000 I think. It failed then and will fail now.

[sunrunner_pei]

Originally posted by b2089
In that case the G6 will be the only pontiac that you can get as a coupe or 4 door. Bad thinking on their part in my opinion. I have a 4 door grand am so I like them, but a 2 door only version fits the current line up better than cancelling it and forcing people to buy the G6. Their sales will suffer.

They'd be better off cancelling the Sunfire. The Solstice can fill it's shoes and offer people a step up.

I pray that they will change their mind about the G series names. They tried that in the 80's with the t1000 t3000 and t6000 I think. It failed then and will fail now.

You're forgetting about the new Pontiac Pursuit, the Sunfire's replacement.

[Subtle_Cynicism]

Yes, but Shawn, the Pursuit is a Canadian exclusive, isn't it?

[b2089]

The Pursuit is the ugliest thig I've ever seen. It will replace the Sunfire in Canada??? It's a foor door box. What are they thinking, it has nothing in common with the sunfire except the price.

I've heard nothing of it in America so hopefully we will be spared this ridcule.

[sunrunner_pei]

AFAIK, it's slated to head South in the next year or two. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[b2089]

To be fair I have to admit that the Sunfire itself is pretty darn ugly so replacing it with another ugly car isn't that huge a deal. However someone could delude themselves into thinking of the sunfire as "Sporty". The Pursuit hasn't that option. It's an econobox no matter how you look at it.

Also to be fair it's almost time for a Grand Am change. Normally they run a car for 7 years. When did the new Grand Am debut? 99 wasn't it?

[sunrunner_pei]

Originally posted by b2089
Also to be fair it's almost time for a Grand Am change. Normally they run a car for 7 years. When did the new Grand Am debut? 99 wasn't it? Hence the end of producion of the Grand Am and the introduction of the Pontiac G6, it's replacement. :)

[Loopy]

Originally posted by b2089

They'd be better off cancelling the Sunfire. The Solstice can fill it's shoes and offer people a step up.

A two seat roadster is not a replacement for the Sunfire. You can still fit a car seat or two in the back of a sunfire.

[Subtle_Cynicism]

The Solstice isn't the Sunfire replacement; it's not replacing any car.

They were talking about the Pursuit in Canada, Loopy.

I think the Pursuit is kind of unique. Not as racy as a Sunfire, but it looks like a Jetta bred with a NeoPontiac (that's what I call the new, "smoother" Pontiacs) :)

[b2089]

I think Pontiac is lossing some cohesion. Before each car had it's place. Now the Pursuit is made it doesn't completly fill the Sunfire gap, but the Solstice doesn't either. For a sporty commuter a person would be unhappy with the Pursuit. They'd have to fork over more money for the solstice. For a family car the Pursuit is the only choice, but then you have to relegate yourself to soccermom status.

[sunrunner_pei]

Don't forget the Vibe. :)

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
Don't forget the Vibe. :)

I'm trying!! :puke:

[sunrunner_pei]

No no Kel, you're thinking of the Asstek, err, Aztek. The Vibe isn't that bad, especially in GT trim. :)

[Loopy]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
I'm trying!! :puke:

I agree. Not a big fan of the Matr-ibe...I don't know - I just don't really get into hatchbacks anymore.

[Subtle_Cynicism]

I think the Vibe GT is a solid car. Haven't heard much complaint about it.

However, the Base and AWD models are horrifically underpowered.

[IamChevyman5]

Being that your (30thANNGAGT) in Rochester Hills, which is very close to the GM TECH center, I'm going to guess there is some correlation there...
Dan

[30thAnnGAGT]

^ and being a GM employee doesn't hur much either ;)

[cschlick]

I beg to differ with you. I am currently driving a 2005 Grand Am SE with the 4 cyl engine and 4 doors. This car is available as a fleet vehicle only.

[Bjornboy81]

You're right, the SE is only avalible as a fleet.

The original point of the thread was to tell what was avalible for the "general public" market. :)

[30thAnnGAGT]

Originally posted by cschlick
I beg to differ with you. I am currently driving a 2005 Grand Am SE with the 4 cyl engine and 4 doors. This car is available as a fleet vehicle only.

Well considering my first post in this thread was in January of 04, I think it was pretty good information at the time. My apologies for not having updated it for fleet sales. The GA has been an excellent rental car.

[gifguy]

:mad: I'm completely digusted with GM about dropping the Grand AM. The 99-05 line was great. My ol' 99 4 dr SE is the best car I've driven, and I would have bought another. (A GT 4dr would be just dandy...) Guess I have to buy used if I want to do that.

The rest of the Pontiac fleet does not impress me enough to want to buy one. The G6 doesn't do it for me. Looks like too many other boring cars out there. I think Pontiac has lost touch with their customers, and quite possibly reality...

[MantaGreen97]

Back from the dead!!! (Isn't there an icon for this? Should be like some zombie dude getting out of his grave, lol...)

Originally posted by gifguy
:mad: I'm completely digusted with GM about dropping the Grand AM. The 99-05 line was great. My ol' 99 4 dr SE is the best car I've driven, and I would have bought another. (A GT 4dr would be just dandy...) Guess I have to buy used if I want to do that.

The rest of the Pontiac fleet does not impress me enough to want to buy one. The G6 doesn't do it for me.

The G6 is the Grand Am, they just decided to call it something else and get rid of the Grand Am. Don't be disgusted with GM for simply dropping a nameplate, it isn't that big a deal. Whether it got the Grand Am name or not the G6 was going to be the car replacing the 99-05 GA no matter what. I.e. Even if they kept calling it the Grand Am it would have been the exact same car.

[TA^Guy]

^ :agree:

"lost touch with their customers"?

Have you seen the Solstice? That can is simply awesome and it was only built because after the concept was released people said they wanted it.

The Torrent is another great Pontiac. Great combination of looks and function.

GTO? Ram air hood, new dual exhaust, and 400hp! BTW, the interior is VERY nice in them too, the only thing I have to say is a down point to them is the vertical fuel tank in the trunk.

How about a V8 powered Grand Prix? Its what people wanted.

So how have they lost touch?

[born4drivn]

wow, this thread took me 35 minutes to read. I don't know why people put down the sunflowers, lol Sunfires. I happen to like them. Their no Grand Am by any means, but their not for the same type of buyer. And as for the pursuit. I like them. I prefer the cobalt rear end, but all in all, I think they are sporty for a little car. Still better than the new neons and civics. But then again, thats just my opinion. I'm actually thinking of buying a sunflower for a winter beater???? HHHHHHHHmmmmmmmmmm, I think I'm on to something???? lol

[Prospeeder]

i like sunbirds alot better, but sunfires are alright lookin cars

[born4drivn]

mind you, If I do buy one, I going for a GT or Z24 before I'd ake a regular one, but if I found a good deal, I'd take one too. Those things you can run right into the ground.

[MikeJames]

I know I'm a newbie here, but, I'm gonna add my 2 cents. I LOVE the grand am? Why? Because I'm 6'3, 250 and I fit VERY well into the car. My wife is a bigger gal and she fits very well into the car as well.

The newer grand prix's give me issues because the seats are too high even lowered all the way (kinda odd I thought).

The newer bonnevilles SUCK! Why? I got in one and couldn't move the seat back anywhere near far enough for my legs and are nowhere near as roomie as I thought they would be. (I know it was discontinued)

So, then there's the G6. WTH was Pontiac thinking? The seats are probably the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in. The interior is that richy cheap look that I HATE.

The GA to me has a great, sporty styling to it. Especially the 99-05 models. Most car companies need to get back in touch with the actual size most people are in todays world. BIG! Not in a bad way, but, there are alot more taller and bigger built people than in the past. All I ask is that they make the cars a tad wider and give me a little big more leg room and I'll be happy.

ANyways, enough of my rant.....just bring back the GA.

Mike

[Foxy]

That's sort of weird. I'm 6'1", 185lbs, and I think that the GA is too small. Even with the seat all the way down, my head brushes up against the ceiling. Very annoying.

Americans are growing bigger, but there's quite a vocal contingent in sports car drivers who hate the trend towards wider, bigger seats. For both the Impreza WRX and Evo 8, they redesigned the seats from the nice, snug, very well gripping ones to wide ones to accomodate Americans' wide asses. Now, they're loose and you tend to slide around much more (though the Evo does have pretty good shoulder bolsters; much better than an STi's).

I don't mind sofa-like chairs in cars that're meant for cruising, but they should stop the trend towards making every car ever larger, ever bigger. There's only a handful of truly light cars these days (Lotus Elise/Exige, Mazda Miata, and.... I think that's about it!). Even under 3000lbs, you're limited on choice. Weight's the enemy when it comes to driving pleasure, in my opinion.

My wife is sort of looking at the G6.. I need to hop in and see how the seats are.

Note - all of the above is just my two cents.

Edit:

Oh, what do you mean by "bring back the GA?" The G6 is the new GA. They just changed the name to be more upscale.

[DontPassTheFence]

The G6 is no GA in my book, other than shadows of the front end and the basic body stance.

However, I completely agree with the seats being built for fatassed americans more and more these days, Im no twig at 180lbs and 6' 1'', but I manage to fit perfectly in an 01 SE coupe, I love the room in my 97 GT coupe, but I cant stand the 03+ cavalier sedans. Even with the seat all the way back in those im cramped, and the seat offers no support (much like the pathetic seats in my GA)

However, sitting in an STi, Miata, s2k, and corvette I can say those seats were nearly made just for me (however as you said, the seats COULD be more supportive and more fitting, but its close enough for now) Also, I too hate vehicle weight - I think my GA is a fatty at only 2800lbs (more like 3K withgas and driver), my next car has to be below the 3k mark, and optimally I want 2500 or under (which is extremely hard to find, even the newer miatas are 2200-2500)

[MikeJames]

Originally posted by DontPassTheFence
The G6 is no GA in my book, other than shadows of the front end and the basic body stance.

However, I completely agree with the seats being built for fatassed americans more and more these days, Im no twig at 180lbs and 6' 1'', but I manage to fit perfectly in an 01 SE coupe,

Wait until you get older and you start to show the signs of age. I have no idea what you're talking about with seats being built for 'bigger' americans more and more. Cars are being built so small these days that they're practically made for midgets. I had more room in the cockpit of an F-15 than I do in some of these cars.

Mike

[Foxy]

Mike,

Are you sure it's not a perception thing? Many cars are using much higher beltlines than they used to, so you feel more 'cooped up.' The new Chrysler cars are particularily notorious for this. They're spacious on the inside, but since you can't see out as well, you feel more cocooned.

As far as the seats, it's a true fact that for cars like the STi and Evo, they had to redesign the seats for the American market, making them less snug and less supportive, just so that fatter Americans could fit into them. Damn you, McDonald's!

[DontPassTheFence]

Yes, im talking strictly seat-size (bench seats aside, here) but most sports/sport compact cars outside of the states have smaller and more supportive seats (Id want to buy an aftermarket perf. leather seat, but those can run up to 1200$ PER seat, for some applications.)

My friend's two cousins have matching lancers (by accident, lol) one is a rallisport and one is an OZ edition; both had to buy new seats for the front because the stock front seats were not supportive enough to keep them in the seat while they were on the dirt track (yea they race a dirt track in their spare time, its pretty cool to watch, you see a wide variety of cars since there are loose restrictions, and its more of a fun basis than on actual competition)

Its true however that the cockpits of cars are slowly becoming more and more compact due to extra equipment and likewise, but the effect is, as Foxy said due impart to the higher waist line of cars.