94-98 V6 CAI - Is there demand?

[Stencil]

Greetings all -- I'm new to this forum, but not to the N-Body scene.

The reason I'm posting is to gauge the interest in a Cold Air Intake system for a 94-98 3100/3400 V6 with or without MAF. I build and sell simalar systems for the L-Body cars, and it would only take slight modifications to adapt them to an N-body.

Here's a snap of what they'd look like: http://www.tranzgenic.com/intakes/3100/3100newintake1.jpg

and here's a snap of the dyno results on a bone stock 3100 in a 94 Beretta:
http://www.tranzgenic.com/intakes/3100/stock3100vstranzintakedyno2.jpg

Just curious if there is enough demand to warrant producing them...

[brianmf]

Depends on price, if anything under the hood changes (battery changing position), etc.

[Stencil]

Prolly run $155, and the only mod you MAY need to do is notch your battery tray a touch so you can slide the battery to the side about 1/8-1/4 inch, but that depends on the size of your battery.



Originally posted by brianmf
Depends on price, if anything under the hood changes (battery changing position), etc.

[wiccanferret]

I wouldn't bet on selling them with an enthusiast crowd at that price. Nice power gain, but CAI's are easy enough to make on your own. Now maybe if it were around $60-$70, with filter...

[Stencil]

Well, unfortunatly T6061 Aircraft aluminum doesn't come especially cheap in 3" mandrel bends. Not to mention the fact that you can't even pick up a decent gauze/oiled reusable air filter for less then $35-40.

When you consider most companies charge $150-175 (RSM and Mantapart for one) for a 1 piece WARM air system from the same stuff, my 4 piece system is an absolute steal - plus I've even gone one step further and dyno proven the intake and scanned the results. The only other company I know of that can say the same is APOC, and his intake for the 99+ are actually MORE expensive then that, but you don't hear the 99+ guys complaining.

If your the "Go to Home Depot and pick up some PVC pipe and dryer hose" type of person, then this intake system is NOT for you.





Originally posted by wiccanferret
I wouldn't bet on selling them with an enthusiast crowd at that price. Nice power gain, but CAI's are easy enough to make on your own. Now maybe if it were around $60-$70, with filter...

[wiccanferret]

Why in the world would you need aircraft aluminum for an intake!?

Honestly, I wasn't trying to argue. You asked, I responded. Forgive me.

[Stencil]

Sorry for my late reply - I was out of town.

In answer to your question, you don't NEED T6061 for the intake. T6061 is extremely strong for it's gauge, it will never rust or tarnish, it polishes to a mirror shine, it's VERY light, and it will dissipate heat EXTREEMLY fast.

I won't say that it's not possible to build an intake system for less money, however I can guarentee you can't build one of this quaility for the same price.

I didn't mean to come off as a jerk, but your initial tone struck me as "This guy is trying to rip people off". This is a GOOD intake system sir, and it's VERY resonably priced - in fact I'd like to see a link for any other company that has a similar setup cheaper!

I'm really surprized that I got such a negitive responce on them here. I saw quite a bit of "Sure wish they made that for my car" before I started on this, and now that I've seriously considered making it (without a minumim order even!), all I get is "Man, that's too much money!"

Make up your mind people...:???:

Originally posted by wiccanferret
Why in the world would you need aircraft aluminum for an intake!?

Honestly, I wasn't trying to argue. You asked, I responded. Forgive me.

[mikem220153]

Stencil's price is fair. You have to consider the time he has to spend on adapting the CAI to our cars and the quality of the materials he is using. I doubt he is making that much of a profit on the sale.

The problem in the past has been that few if any of the motorsport's shops have spent the time to develop a decent CAI for the pre-99 N body. For example, look at RSM's web site. They sell an air induction system for $149.00 but this thing is a WAI (Warm Air Intake) which is inferior to a CAI. The end result is that most of us pre-99 owners end up building our own CAI in one form or another.

Stencil, My advice is to build one and test it. Then let us know how it turns out.

Would I be interested? Probably.

[Stencil]

Well, dispite the negitive comments, I do plan on making them. As I mentioned, they are pretty close to the L-body design, so it won't be that hard to adapt the layout. I have a test car coming down from Denver this weekend so I can slap the finishing touches on it. I expect them to produce about the same about of power that the L-body intake did, considering they have the same engine/tranny and very similar tubing path.

I've also got the following cars on the "to produce" list:

90-91 GA Q4
92-93 GA Q4
94-95 GA Q4
96-98 GA TC

I have test cars lined up for the 94-95 Q4 and the 96-98 TC, but if anyone else has one of the other 2 cars and is near Colorado Springs, hit me up :)





Originally posted by mikem220153
Stencil's price is fair. You have to consider the time he has to spend on adapting the CAI to our cars and the quality of the materials he is using. I doubt he is making that much of a profit on the sale.

The problem in the past has been that few if any of the motorsport's shops have spent the time to develop a decent CAI for the pre-99 N body. For example, look at RSM's web site. They sell an air induction system for $149.00 but this thing is a WAI (Warm Air Intake) which is inferior to a CAI. The end result is that most of us pre-99 owners end up building our own CAI in one form or another.

Stencil, My advice is to build one and test it. Then let us know how it turns out.

Would I be interested? Probably.

[wiccanferret]

Tell you what. I, for one, could be interested. But if you could do us all a HUGE favor, since you will have a test car on a dyno, could you possibly rig a WAI and dyno it, with hood closed? Because a lot of people are saying that the WAI is actually losing torque at low end, and if so, I would be willing to pay that much for a CAI to replace my WAI.

[brianmf]

Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner, been busy. I'd be more enthusiastic about this if I didn't need to buy rims and tires. I was looking for a CAI, still am, but prolly won't buy as soon as I would have.

Price does sound good though.

[WhiPontiac]

Would you make one for the 3100 V6?

[mikem220153]

WhiPontiac;

That is what Stencil is attempting to do. It is in his first post.

Stencil;

Don't let a few negative comments discourage you. There is a lot of pre-99 N bodies out there in need of a decent CAI. Let us know how it turns out.

[Red99GAGT]

Originally posted by mikem220153
WhiPontiac;

That is what Stencil is attempting to do. It is in his first post.

Stencil;

Don't let a few negative comments discourage you. There is a lot of pre-99 N bodies out there in need of a decent CAI. Let us know how it turns out.

I second that!

I make intakes for the 99+ N-Bodies, and I am constantly being asked to produce an intake for the pre-99 N-Bodies. I would make them, but I barely have enough time to produce kits for the 99+ GA's. There is definately a demand. Go for it! :bigok:

Stencil, your price is definately fair. It takes time to make each kit, and no one works for free.

[WhiPontiac]

Originally posted by mikem220153
WhiPontiac;

That is what Stencil is attempting to do. It is in his first post.

I can't believe I missed that. I only saw the list of Quads. :lol:

Stencil, please keep us informed of your progress.

[Stencil]

Well, I won't have the funds to re-dyno the intake JUST for that specific reason for a while (it does cost me $75-100 to dyno), however I can show you this dyno by another L-body that tested a stock airbox vs a K&N drop-in vs a RSM WAI:

This was a modded 3100 from a 96 Beretta: http://www.tranzgenic.com/stockvsknvsrsm.jpg

His dyno was scaled in MPH, but if you do the math -- he has a 2.93 FDR, and his 2nd gear is 1.568, and his tire size is 195/70R14. I beleive the formula of (speed * tire rev/mile * gear ratio)/60 will give us about 3400RPM @ 55MPH on his graph, right about where the WAI starts to make power over the stock one.

As you can see, at 3400RPM my intake system is already making a decent amount more power over stock, while the WAI intake was just starting to wake up. It also appears as if mine holds the power a little bit longer before dropping off on the top end. Here's another dyno graph of my test car that shows the TQ as well (the TQ# is messed up because of the shift spike at the beginning of the dyno) http://www.tranzgenic.com/intakes/3100/stock3100vstranzintakedyno.jpg






Originally posted by wiccanferret
Tell you what. I, for one, could be interested. But if you could do us all a HUGE favor, since you will have a test car on a dyno, could you possibly rig a WAI and dyno it, with hood closed? Because a lot of people are saying that the WAI is actually losing torque at low end, and if so, I would be willing to pay that much for a CAI to replace my WAI.

[wiccanferret]

That works. Pretty much told me what I wanted to know. Definately keep us updated on the progress.

[Azrael]

If the situation I have with RSM and my intake order goes bad I'll definitely be considering getting a CAI from you.

[Stencil]

Just an update -- my GA test car came down this weekend, and we got the final touches ironed out for the 94-98 Intake, so they are ready to sell.

If anyone is interested, there is a group buy in process for them right now - the GA intakes will be priced the same as the Beretta ones - you can read more HERE (http://www.beretta.net/board/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=29;t=2489;st=0)

Thanks! :)

[99GrandAMSE]

Feel free to post a specific Group Buy within the FOR SALE Section if you wish :)

[mikem220153]

Stencil;

How are you handling the IAT sensor on the 3100 version? I live in an area where we have to keep emission intact.

[Stencil]

All factory sensors are installed on the intake. I have the IAT sensor hole on the bottom of the 2nd section -- I like to keep them as "invisible" as possible (no need to have it sticking out the side for all the world to see! ;) .




Originally posted by mikem220153
Stencil;

How are you handling the IAT sensor on the 3100 version? I live in an area where we have to keep emission intact.

[HondaCivicsSuck]

if i wasnt selling my car i would get one man! why are the 96-98's cheaper then the 94-95's? :D

[vdgmcool]

Sorry for just reading this but i am very interested in a CAI i've been looking for one for a long time.

[Scrawnyirishboy]

did anyone buy this intake yet? bumpin it cuz im interested and want to know if it isnt full of shit, heehee

[vdgmcool]

Originally posted by Scrawnyirishboy
did anyone buy this intake yet? bumpin it cuz im interested and want to know if it isnt full of shit, heehee

I don't know but if anyone has please post and tell us what you think

[Stencil]

Actually, I think I've only had one GA (97 V6) owner purchase an intake so far -- and that was a refferal from APOC.

I just shipped out a 25 order group buy from Beretta.net / Bstuff.com -- anyone looking for yay/nay might keep an eye over there for feedback (just FYI, so far it's been nothing but %100 -- no unsatisfied customers ;) ).



Originally posted by vdgmcool
I don't know but if anyone has please post and tell us what you think

[Stencil]

Also, here are some video / sound clips of the "before and after" intake notes:

http://www.tranzgenic.com/intakes/3100/3100stockintake.avi
http://www.tranzgenic.com/intakes/3100/3100tranzintake.avi

If you have any problems viewing the video, you need the DIVX codec -- it can be downloaded here: http://download.divx.com/divx/DivX511.exe

[Peyman]

wow thats a nice sound difference...

[vdgmcool]

I'm gonna order one with in the next few months as soon as I get a few bills paid off.


Unless you wanna sponsor:)

[Stencil]

Perhaps when the company starts to make money, and stops sucking every free cent from my pockets, I could consider something like that -- until then, however... :(



Originally posted by vdgmcool
I'm gonna order one with in the next few months as soon as I get a few bills paid off.


Unless you wanna sponsor:)

[vdgmcool]

Originally posted by Stencil
Perhaps when the company starts to make money, and stops sucking every free cent from my pockets, I could consider something like that -- until then, however... :(


Ok i'll just buy one I don't see how you can be losing money because I know there is demand. Are you planning to update your website anytime soon?

[VanishingImage]

Im interested in a CAI for the 96-98 TC. Right now Im having a hard time trying to convert my AEM intake into one,so whenever theres some news,please update:)

[Stencil]

Well, I don't "loose" money on the intakes, it just takes a while to recoupe the cost of development of it - and for that matter, the cost of tooling up for intakes in the first place!

It cost me almost $5000 to just get started with the intake biz - It's been over 8 months since I started making them, and I've still only recouped about half of my initial investment, much less shown a profit. It's the old story of 200 people say they want one, but when someone finally makes it, then only about 3 people are to be found...then there's the skeptics that even when shown proof (like dyno numbers and such), still want 100 people to testify that it really works before they'll spend the money. And let's not forget the "Home Depot Performance" people, that would rather spray paint PCV pipe and such then spend a few bucks more for something quaility built (reminds me of the same people that buy "do it yourself" tint ;) ).

As for the website, yes, I will soon have it finished. I'm just working the bugs out of the shopping cart and it's being far more time consuming then I thought.



Originally posted by vdgmcool
Ok i'll just buy one I don't see how you can be losing money because I know there is demand. Are you planning to update your website anytime soon?

[RedHot97GAGT]

If anybody wants to save money and make one themselves take a look at my intake if you have any questions I'll be sure to answer them. I just think that its messed up how companies are making money on people for intakes when all they do is put all the parts in a box and tell you how to put it together. That being said your price isn't bad but it could be better.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/631995/3

[TheShiznit]

I dont want to have to move my battery at all, is there someway or gaurantee that if i buy one for my 3100, that im not going to have this problem? otherwise, i could just make my own, cuz i will have to move my battery anyway. I have the a red top optima battery, stock size im guessing. By the way, do you have a picture of it from under the fender??

[GTLinden]

About 30 dollars short right now, but u will be recieving an email from me within the next week...i wanna get this thing ordered.

[Gamebay11]

I have a 98 2.4 and would be interested. How could you not be interested with companies like Induction Dynamics selling one for 265, and to think i was about to buy one of theirs. When I get my funds up, I will make an order. Keep us informed!