Should I just shoot my car? (1 month of worry)

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

Ok about 5 weeks ago, my car ran completely out of gas...(and yes i have slapped myself silly over it) Anywayz...Coasted into "cash only" gas station and filled it with a few gallons (only had a few dollers cash) ...wouldn't start back up immediately but hubby said it was due to running completely out...went to a c. card station and filled up....not sure if this day is even related to car problems.


So 2 days go by...no problems....On the 3rd day...hubby was driving and the car shuts off, it will crank but only if he holds the gas pedal and "reves the engine" also noticying engine shaking...so we get the car towed home...(at this point we were unsure if we wanted to put money into it...but I LOVE MY CAR..call me crazy)

SO once home we start to examine the car and first thing we replace is the motor mounts (3rd replacement in 2 yrs)...Car will not even turn over now??..So we replace the starter & selinoid...Car will attempt to crank but will not turn over...Replace the fuel filter..nothing new happens.

used a error code reader but it is not picking up any codes...At this point we decide it could be too many things for us to try to troubleshoot and sent it to mechanic shop.

Mechanic shop replaces the following:
- Ignition Coil Housing
- Crankshaft sensor
and they recomended the spark plugs and boots need to be replaced as well.

Ok so 580.00 later we pick up the car and replace the spark plugs and boots. Car cranks up GREAT!! Runs great!!

Next morning...car does not want to turn over....after several tries it finally turns over...driving it back to the dealer the car cuts off several times....

7 days later they decide it is the oil pressure sensor and replace that....get to the shop and they can't get the car started to bring it around...so leave the car there....4 more days and they claim the coil housing was bad (that they put in) and replacing that part.. we pick up the car.

1/2 mile down road car cuts off....not taking it back to those mechanics....

Now we have since replace the fuel pressure regulator, which gave it a fix for 24 hrs...but then started acting the same way....Hard start and stalls while driving.

We are thinking of replacing the fuel pump but if that is the problem wouldn't the car sputter like it was loosing fuel?....When the car cuts off there is still power to the radio and etc...but it is like someone just switched off the engine...No warning!

THe worst part is there is no pattern, it will shut off in the heat, cool morning, driving on freeway, turning, stopping, etc.. And starting it is getting harder and harder...btw....It used to start up imediately if stalled while driving but is now taking more and more tries.....

any suggestions on where we should look...should we go ahead and replace the fuel pump...i am thinking this is the root of the problem.....

One last note: My gas gauge was messed up whe i got it and when i fill up it goes waaay past the full mark.....

thanks in advance

grand-am lover

[30thAnnGAGT]

I'd try the fuel pump and the water pump. You said that the crankshaft sensor was replaced. I'm not real familiar with the 94 model year, but I might also check the ignition sensor. That's what happened in my buddies 92 with the same symptoms. So I'm not sure if those sensors are one in the same, but that would be my guess.

[mthegodfather]

I would change the Fuel pump and see if that doesnt correct the problem.

[Colin]

Has anybody checked the fuel pressure on this vehicle ? Sounds alot like a failing fuel pump . To fix the fuel sender you'll have to drop the tank away so you might as well do them both .

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

IS THE FUEL SENDER THE SAME AS THE RELAY UNIT?

[Colin]

You mentioned your fuel guage isn't working properly , it's commonly the sender that is faulty . Basically , the sender is in the gas tank and tells the fuel gauge how much gas is in the tank . Since you have to drop the tank to replace both the pump and the sender you may as well fix both problems at the same time . ( Get the fuel pressure tested to determine if the pump is the problem first ) :D

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

ok...gonna replace the fuel pump relay as well....but where is the relay at?....please advise....also will check back in with the results of replacing the sender unit, fuel pump and relay...


Also, did i read somewhere that to check for vacuum leaks you could blow smoke in the engine and see where it gets sucked in?...if so, and i have no leaks, should it not get sucked in at all?


thanks a bunch for everyones advise!!! This forum really is great!

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

ok found the fuel pump relay.....It is broken....At the base of the relay "housing" their is a chunk taken off and a hole in it that allows you to see inside the housing.

Gone to advance to get a relay and see what if anything this does....if not next step fuel pump & sender.

[CrashVector]

sounds like water in the gas tank to me....

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

ok relay was not the problem....working of replacing the fuel pump now...Do I have this right....fuel pump is operated by ecm when car is cranked...then oil pressure unit operates fuel pump until pressure builds and then the relay operates the fuel pump?...

when i disconect the relay the pump does not hum...just a clicking noise...any thoughts?

[Colin]

Originally posted by GRANDAMGAL28311
when i disconect the relay the pump does not hum...just a clicking noise...any thoughts? The relay sends current to the fuel pump when you turn on the key , you will hear it hum before you crank it over . If the relay wasn't working or it's disconnected it won't work . If passlock thinks someone is trying to steal the car ( using another key / hotwire etc. ) the ecm will disable fuel . ( You would get a security light on dash ) . The pump may hum but may not be making enough pressure to properly operate the injectors or is intermittantly shutting off . You should get the pressure checked before spending money on a pump ...;)

[doobiess]

Ok well to me it sounds like a water pump... since the reason i say that is the water pump in GM fuel injected cars... well dont like to be ran out of gas... since basically unlike an old fuel pump for a carborated enigne it doesnt matter.. wont hurt a thing but on the fuel injected the pumps require the fuel to basically lubricate the pump as it goes.. and when it runs out... it basically siezes... but before you just go and replace it... 2 things... when the car is sitting there and u turn the key to accesory do you hear a buzz come on in the back of the car... only for like 2 seconds? and also if possible do a fuel pressure test on the car... and if you can just connect the guage to the fuel rail.. looks like a schrader valve.. or bike tire valve.. and connect to that ... if you get 0 psi its your pump... but for fuel injection... you need a decent amount of pressure.. not sure exactly but i think its about 35-45 psi.. so do those 2 tests.. will get you a bit closer to the problem

[Colin]

Water pump :???: Why would it be the water pump ......

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

well my grand am doesn't have a shrader valve..looked all over for it and even took it to advance to have them point it out to us...they could not find it either....So unable to do a pressure test that way....is there another way?...

We did go ahead and replaced the fuel tank and a strainer or something like it....car started up fine...cut it off and it hard started again (took 3 tries)....assumed it was possibley do to the minimum gas in the tank...went to gas station and filled up....hard start again...so far though it has started on first try...gonna take it out for a spin and see, but have my doubts:-(

If this does not work any suggestions?

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

ok replaced the fuel pump (not tank) and car is still not working right...has cut off while driving 2x but did immediately start back up...still not starting up as well as i like but starts on first try now.

Any other suggestions on why it might be doing this?

[redhotgrandam96]

well im not really sure if this is the problem or not.. cause i was having problems starting it.. but it wouldnt cut off on me.. my problem was the crankshaft position sensor...they finally figured that out after 1,300 dollars later...

[Colin]

Originally posted by redhotgrandam96
well im not really sure if this is the problem or not.. cause i was having problems starting it.. but it wouldnt cut off on me.. my problem was the crankshaft position sensor...they finally figured that out after 1,300 dollars later... I was thinking that , but the CPS usually causes a no start because of no spark . It could be a connector or wiring for the CPS though . If there is no code being set it's hard to say . :???:

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

thanks for everyones help guess i am gonna have to save up to take car into dealership...If/when i can take it in i'll let everyone know what the findings are.

thanks again

[Gimli]

At this point, if it was a fuel pump problem (and I'm pretty sure it was), something else might've gone wrong in the fuel delivery system (because it "ran out of gas" so many times because of the bad pump). Hopefully now that your fuel pump has been replaced the problem shouldn't happen again once you find what is wrong and replace it.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by GRANDAMGAL28311
ok replaced the fuel pump (not tank) and car is still not working right...has cut off while driving 2x but did immediately start back up...still not starting up as well as i like but starts on first try now.

Any other suggestions on why it might be doing this?
I'm thinking along Gimli's lines, that you've cured the main problem (an old pump, pushed to failure by running out of gas), and now you're dealing with residual problems.

It sounds like the Fuel Pressure Regulator, mounted on the fuel rail at the engine, may be faulty/sticky as a result of being run without pressure so often.
It may be allowing *barely* adequate fuel pressure at start-up with the new pump, but closing or otherwise restricting flow at certain road conditions.

I don't know the test procedure for the FPR.

Good luck.
-Rick

PS: The '94 and '95 have the computer-from-hell, also known slangly as 'OBD-I.5.'

Only GM dealers have the special, antiquated equipment to down load PCM codes from those two years.

[GRANDAMGAL28311]

I replaced the fuel pressure regulator the week before...when we were trying to find the shrader valve, we noticed a small split in the hose to the regulator, so we replaced the hose and the car was a bit better, so went ahead and replaced the regulator too

[rixGAphx]

Well, it looks like you've covered all bases.

I give one vote for shooting the damned thing.





I'll gladly spend my frequent-flier miles for a ticket to come participate, but you'll have to supply the firearm 'cuz of all those damned airline security rules. :eek: :D :D



Seriously, short of a new PCM or having a dealer clear codes (including latent 'passlock' crap related to a non-original ignition key), I'm stymied on this.

Good luck.
-Rick

PS: Keep us informed; hope it doesn't turn out to be something simple like an O2 sensor or cat.