Are fog lamps illegal ??? [Archive] - Grand Am Owners Club Forums

Gor

10-02-2004, 01:07 AM

Here in Oklahoma I heard that it was illegal to have you fog lamps on when there's no fog.
I tried this out a couple of years ago when I had my '97 SE....

Sure enough, I got pulled over for having my fog lamps on in town. The officer said it was "just like having your brights on".
I really wanted to argue with him, but he was nice about it, so I was.

How in the hell can it be like having your brights on???

Now I've got the '01 GT and having your fog lamps on looks really cool :D

Can someone please explain why this law exists??
It's BS

nice96gt

10-02-2004, 01:48 AM

I don't agree with that law, but my driving lights are just about as bright as my highs. I think it would make it harder for oncoming traffic to see at night time than causing a problem in the day. Here is some info on the law for lights in Oklahoma.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeID=82397------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gor

10-02-2004, 02:19 AM

Awesome man!

Thanks for clearing that up.... it's still BS though ;) :lol:

I guess I'll leave 'em off... driving a red GT is a cop-magnet enough without adding stuff like foglamps!

In fact, why don't I just go the whole nine yards and switch on my foglamps, install neon and blue headlamps????

And a coffee-can tailpipe? LMAO....

nice96gt

10-02-2004, 02:31 AM

np. I agree that it is total BS. I love the look of them, but no matter what HID's are 10x worse than my fogs. Yet they are legal, well MOST of them. So how does that work? I would love to know. Oh well, whenever you try to fight the law, it usualy wins.

Yeah really, anthing more and they'll have to take it off the road for being a hazard! :lol:

Chain

10-02-2004, 08:21 AM

Gor what part of Oklahoma you from? There is a few of us from around Tulsa on here.

Gor

10-02-2004, 01:11 PM

Hey Chain... I live out west of Guthrie, near Cedar Valley.
About 35 miles north of OKC.

DowmaceWH99

10-02-2004, 02:14 PM

I live in Sapulpa OK, and as far as I knew you couldn't have more than 4 driving lights on the front of your car

Big Joe

10-02-2004, 03:39 PM

wow thats a really stupid law

RomeoGAOC

10-02-2004, 07:06 PM

How is it like driving with your brights on if the things are pointed at the ground LIKE THEY SHOULD BE.

92CamaroRS

10-02-2004, 08:17 PM

huh when i had my 93 i drove with em on all the time. every car i meet at night driving down the road usually has them on too. never heard of anyone around here getting a ticket

nice96gt

10-02-2004, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by buchajo
Yea... I drive around with my fog lights on all the time.

I think it looks cool ... I think the more lights on ...
the better (for safety and visibility purposes) and
furthermore I now know how to change my fog light
bulbs when they blow out, so I drive with them on
all the time :) ....what can it hurt?

That whole 'too bright' deal is a crock.
I've never viewed my fog lights as being more then
just another set of driving lights. I notice a bit better
visibility to the side(s) of my car at night... but not a whole
lot of extra visibility straight ahead with them on.
(This with stock bulbs mind you .... haven't experimented
with any other kinds of fog light bulbs yet).

I see many Pontiacs in a day around here...
Montanas... Grand Prixs .... Vibes... Grand Ams .....
and most of them drive around with their fog
lights on day and night... it's a Pontiac thing I think!
I hope they keep that stupid law WAY south of this border.

I've added some angel eyes with super white bulbs and they are at least 3x brighter than stock. I think that if they are aimed properly, then there wouldn't be an issue as much. Mine are aimed more towards the ground than into the eyes of oncoming traffic, but it is very bright still. I have switched from my lowbeams & driving lights to my high beams before and only notice a slight difference between the two, that's how bright they are.

I agree with you about the law staying down south. I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket around here for having their fog lights on during the day. It is a stupid law.

Chain

10-02-2004, 11:35 PM

I see a lot of people driving with fogs on but I know of at least 5 people that have gotten tickest from the HP for having them on.
No fog lights unless its rain, snow, or fog.
Oklahoma has some jacked up laws but at least we get away with dark tint.

nice96gt

10-03-2004, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by buchajo
Hey.... have you ever thought about putting those
angel eyes in your back bumper (for reverse lights) too?

I personally wouldn't be able to do that since I have a 96, but I think I've seen it done before on a 99+. In the sense it would be more like having spot lights in the back than reverse lights. :lol:

Gor

10-03-2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Chain
Oklahoma has some jacked up laws but at least we get away with dark tint.

Yeah that's true... I dunno what % mine is, but it's super dark. It makes driving at night a bit of a pain sometimes.....

...this opens another question - If I was to go out of state, could I get a ticket for my dark window tint?

You'll have to forgive me, I grew up in England for 29 years prior to living here in OK - I'm used to one rule set for the whole country :)

1996v6corsica

10-03-2004, 12:31 PM

ahh.. i hate bright lights at night.. the other night there was some jerk in a truck following close behind me.. since he sits so much higher than my car i had to angle all my mirrors down so i could see.. i was already doing 5 over, i did feel like going any faster, and he had many chances to pass.. i opened the sunroof to start flipping pennys at his truck but my girl stopped me.. probably a good thing she did :]
althought the guy deserved it..

92CamaroRS

10-03-2004, 12:33 PM

1996v6corsica

10-03-2004, 12:36 PM

he was tailgating in the middle of the night on a country road for no reason, thats being a dick in my books.. and it deserves the joy of a few pennys pinging off your hood, it was some POS old truck anyways, if i was tailgating someone at night i wouldnt get mad if they threw pennys at my car.. but since i dont tailgate..

92CamaroRS

10-03-2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by 1996v6corsica
he was tailgating in the middle of the night on a country road for no reason, thats being a dick in my books.. and it deserves the joy of a few pennys pinging off your hood, it was some POS old truck anyways, if i was tailgating someone at night i wouldnt get mad if they threw pennys at my car.. but since i dont tailgate..

well throwing pennies isnt the answer. i have a POS truck and if someone did that to me it would piss me off. and honestly id be on my phone calling you in. you would be repainting my POS truck so it isnt a POS anymore. if someones tailgating you and you dont like it pull over to the side and let them by.

1996v6corsica

10-03-2004, 12:47 PM

calling me in? are the police gonna go searching a country road for pennys for "evidence"
for all they know it could have been a rock.. all they know is that the idiot calling them was tailgating someone and something hit their car.. perhaps a rock kicked up by the tires, dont continue this 'conversation' tailgating is stupid, back on topic skip

nice96gt

10-03-2004, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by 1996v6corsica
he was tailgating in the middle of the night on a country road for no reason, thats being a dick in my books.. and it deserves the joy of a few pennys pinging off your hood, it was some POS old truck anyways, if i was tailgating someone at night i wouldnt get mad if they threw pennys at my car.. but since i dont tailgate..

How would you not get angry? :???: I would be pissed if someone was throwing pennies or anything for that matter at my vehicle. Whether it's a POS or not, someone still owns it. I suppose he could have gone around, but then again to solve the situation without throwing something at his truck, you COULD have just sped up and that would have been it.

nice96gt

10-03-2004, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Gor
Yeah that's true... I dunno what % mine is, but it's super dark. It makes driving at night a bit of a pain sometimes.....

...this opens another question - If I was to go out of state, could I get a ticket for my dark window tint?

You'll have to forgive me, I grew up in England for 29 years prior to living here in OK - I'm used to one rule set for the whole country :)

I think you are taking a risk having it on your car. I knew a friend who had tint on his car who went to the US somewhere (he was from Canada), got pulled over, and they ripped off his tint on the spot. I guess the cop was having a bad day. :P I think it would all depend on the day and the mood of the officer. If someone knows actual facts to answer his question, I would like to know also. :)

BBT

10-03-2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by 1996v6corsica
ahh.. i hate bright lights at night.. the other night there was some jerk in a truck following close behind me.. since he sits so much higher than my car i had to angle all my mirrors down so i could see.. i was already doing 5 over, i did feel like going any faster, and he had many chances to pass.. i opened the sunroof to start flipping pennys at his truck but my girl stopped me.. probably a good thing she did :]
althought the guy deserved it..

I have a 1 million CP rechargable flashlight in my car (for one of my jobs), nestled on the hump between the console and the rear seat. I use it in these situations, bring it up, rest it on my shoulder and point it backwards. Usually works. They get the message.

Silver99SE

10-03-2004, 04:12 PM

As far as the tint, I don't see why you would get away with it just because you're from a different state. All the other laws of the state apply when you are in that state.

And for the tailgating thing, that's one of my pet-peeves. I don't tailgate. I loathe when someone tailgates me. I have a simple three step solution that will get rid of tailgaters.

1) Hit your washer fluid several times. After they realize that they are close enough to get THEIR windows washed by your fluid, most the time they'll back off. After this, if they are still on you, you know that they are just being a jerk (or stupid).

2) Can you say, BRAKE CHECK? Tap them a few times. Don't slam them on because if they rear end you theres a good chance that you'll have a witness that says that you slammed on your brakes. Tada! Your fault. If they are still playing hemorrhoid, then they really diserve step three.

3) Simply let off your accelerator. Slow down to 50% of the posted speed limit. This will A) convey your point without a doubt, and B) allow them a very good chance to pass.

If all three of these don't work then you need to drive to the nearest police station because you have a stalker.

tommyboy22481

10-03-2004, 04:41 PM

I think legally theres no way you can be at fault for being hit from behind. Ever. If you brake check them and they hit you they were following to close. What if you had to brake hard for a reason? Damage to the rear of your vehical is almost always their fault, execept maybe if you hit a parked car while backing up. :)

Merlyn

10-04-2004, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by buchajo
Hey.... have you ever thought about putting those
angel eyes in your back bumper (for reverse lights) too?

I have no idea if that would even be possible at all
but I think they have a similar shape to the stock
reverse lens, right? What do you think?

Now that probably would be illegal... :lol:
But you'd never have a problem with lighting, while
backing up at night; that's for sure!

- - -
By the way I like the idea of using those angel eyes
for fog lights too. Did you have to do any major modifications
to replace your stock lights with those lights? For
example, aren't they more 'oval' then 'round'?

The angel eye fogs won't fit the reverse lights spots in the bumper. Those are more oval shaped, while the fogs are circular.

I had very little modification to install mine. I had to modify the stock bracket to make the light housing fit, I had to modify the plug to accept the wiring from the new lights, and had to come up with a way to power the angel eyes. With a little ingenuity, you can do quite a bit with your car.

nice96gt

10-04-2004, 01:50 AM

Can't you get smaller lights similar to the hella's with the halo? The may fit if you looked around and found the right ones... The install of my angel eyes were even more simple than a 99+. Just bolt them on and wire 'em up. No cutting or anything. Something finally was easier to mod on an older car than a new one. :D

Subtle_Cynicism

10-04-2004, 07:04 AM

I kinda agree with that law, but rather I feel it should be common sense, not enforceable law.

Some car's have EXTREMELY bright headlights...I've found out from driving in front of a newer bodied Grand Am that they have powerful lights, even though I think they suck as brights.

Most Grand Am's I see have their fog lights on and I wonder why.

Don't the newer Grand Am's automatically turn them on sometimes?

I only use my foglights when its raining, snowing, or foggy

GTLUVA

10-04-2004, 09:25 AM

Don't worry about the laws:P Wisconsin is tight on laws too just like the front license plate law which I use to follow but don't anymore since April I have been missing my front license plate but I have it hanging on my wall in my bedroom:lol: I also put twinkle bulbs in my reverse lights which are highly illegal so I got to be careful I don't back up to any police:D But when I got a flat tire on my car last month I drove a half mile to get off the busy road because I didn't want any police stopping me:lol: My main point is don't be afraid to break the laws. We only live once on this earth so enjoy:P

XtremeGrandAm

10-09-2004, 06:17 PM

that really sucks I always have my fog lights on if my lights are on. Glad that its not a problem around here

Fusion_Orange

10-09-2004, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by nice96gt
np. I agree that it is total BS. I love the look of them, but no matter what HID's are 10x worse than my fogs. Yet they are legal, well MOST of them. So how does that work? I would love to know. Oh well, whenever you try to fight the law, it usualy wins.

Yeah really, anthing more and they'll have to take it off the road for being a hazard! :lol:

I disagree with ya- When 1 in 20 cars has HID, and 18 of 20 cars have their fog lamps on, it is truely annoying. When they are a distance away, its one giant glob of light- you can't distinguisn headlamps between foglamps- its just really bright. I see no reason to have fog lamps on when there is no fog, rain, or snow. I have HID in my car, and its aimed low enough so there is no glare in oncoming traffic. To this day, in either of my GAGT's, i have NOT once turned the fog lamps on. One of them has 9800 miles, the other has 28890 miles. I'm glad that the new grand prix's and the G6 now have the switch that you have to turn on each time that you want to power up the fog lights- when you turn the car off, they go off and dont come back on until you turn that switch again. I think that was a smart move on Pontiac's part.

nice96gt

10-10-2004, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by Fusion_Orange
I disagree with ya- When 1 in 20 cars has HID, and 18 of 20 cars have their fog lamps on, it is truely annoying. When they are a distance away, its one giant glob of light- you can't distinguisn headlamps between foglamps- its just really bright. I see no reason to have fog lamps on when there is no fog, rain, or snow. I have HID in my car, and its aimed low enough so there is no glare in oncoming traffic. To this day, in either of my GAGT's, i have NOT once turned the fog lamps on. One of them has 9800 miles, the other has 28890 miles. I'm glad that the new grand prix's and the G6 now have the switch that you have to turn on each time that you want to power up the fog lights- when you turn the car off, they go off and dont come back on until you turn that switch again. I think that was a smart move on Pontiac's part.

I think that if you have HID's, you should have ne reason to have fog lights on also. They are more than bright enough to light up the road. The only reason I would drive with my fogs on is because I can't see the road very well, which is most of the time. I don't have HID's so I need some extra power to light my way. The factory setup just doesn't cut it.

As for the switch, I don't think it's that difficult to turn them off when you turn on the car if they are still on. Obviously you would realize they were on. I mean reaching over to turn them off isn't that big of a deal. You are right though, I guess what GM has done to the new cars with the fog light switch has made things a little more convienient.

mike_46350

10-21-2004, 04:02 AM

i have dark tint fog lights on red neons and havent got messed with im in a smaller town not to small but small. If someone is tailgating me ill brake check their ass.

CarefullyStupid

12-14-2004, 12:40 AM

LoneRangers15

12-14-2004, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by Fusion_Orange
I disagree with ya- When 1 in 20 cars has HID, and 18 of 20 cars have their fog lamps on, it is truely annoying. When they are a distance away, its one giant glob of light- you can't distinguisn headlamps between foglamps- its just really bright. I see no reason to have fog lamps on when there is no fog, rain, or snow. I have HID in my car, and its aimed low enough so there is no glare in oncoming traffic. To this day, in either of my GAGT's, i have NOT once turned the fog lamps on. One of them has 9800 miles, the other has 28890 miles. I'm glad that the new grand prix's and the G6 now have the switch that you have to turn on each time that you want to power up the fog lights- when you turn the car off, they go off and dont come back on until you turn that switch again. I think that was a smart move on Pontiac's part.
I have to agree. I have fog lights on my Lumina and I have never used them. Honestly, the next time I see some idiot with them on when it is perfectly clear outside, I will calmly ask him to turn them off. If he refuses, the shit will hit the fan.

digitalquirk

12-14-2004, 08:34 AM

One time I had a truck behind me at a traffic light with his brights on. I was able to adjust the passenger side vanity mirror such that his light reflected back at him, right into his face. Since we were stopped at a light, there was no danger. He got the hint and dimmed his lights.

I agree with the laws about fog/driving lights. When you're the only car on the road, or the weather is real crappy (snow/rain/fog), then by all means, use them...but driving at night, some regular headlights create enough glare. Thing is, headlights have to be engineered by law so that when on the low beam setting, it does not create glare for on-coming traffic. There are no such laws for driving/fog lights and they do create a lot of glare, even if they're aimed correctly.

BBT

12-14-2004, 10:33 PM

I still wanna mount landing lights of a 747 so I can see WAY down the road at night. Won't be no glare, just the intense feeling that maybe you wandered onto a runway somehow. :lol:

Gimli

12-15-2004, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by BBT
I still wanna mount landing lights of a 747 so I can see WAY down the road at night.

I think you'll need to upgrade your alternator as well... :D

BBT

12-15-2004, 09:22 PM

Wouldn't hurt I suppose, since the rear defroster really hammers it.

Do you think the lights would detract from the looks of the car?

Subtle_Cynicism

12-15-2004, 09:25 PM

I really hate fog lights for any other use besides driving in rain, sleet, hail, fog, snow, or other imclement weather conditions, and I see it done all the time.

I sometimes forget to turn my fog light switch off and they come on automattically, but I do switch them off unless its being bad weathered.

But I LOATHE when trucks have their huge fog lights on...they blind me.

Gimli

12-16-2004, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by BBT
Do you think the lights would detract from the looks of the car?

Depends... After people get their retina burnt off there wouldn't be much looks left from the car...

It'd be a pretty effective de-icing tool though :)

BBT

12-17-2004, 12:00 AM

De-ice in winter and cook road-kill in the summer. :lol:

Pte Socks

12-17-2004, 11:48 PM

I havnet read any of this, but I got pulled over at a check stop and the cop told me my fog lights were illegal. Go figure. I get pulled over for so much BS stuff my g/f says I shoudl just sell the car because everything seems illegal on it. Grr.. I hate BS like that!

nice96gt

12-17-2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
I havnet read any of this, but I got pulled over at a check stop and the cop told me my fog lights were illegal. Go figure. I get pulled over for so much BS stuff my g/f says I shoudl just sell the car because everything seems illegal on it. Grr.. I hate BS like that!

What exactly did he say was illegal about them? What kind do you have?

Eldaron

12-23-2004, 03:18 PM

The stock 99+ fog lamps aren't very bright, and don't interfere with oncoming traffic. I like to drive with them on most of the time. Glare is also often something caused by the other person's windshield, Smoker's Haze makes glare absolutely terrible as does any dirty windshield. Best way to avoid glare is a clean, fog-free windshield,IMO.

However, if I were to replace them with something brighter, I'd refrain from using them in fair weather.

RocketFast321

12-23-2004, 05:34 PM

I been riding around with two sets for the last two years and no problems. Since I did the drl mod I ride with OEM ones and aftermaket set on all the the time.

onephatgrandam

12-24-2004, 06:46 PM

i don't see how all you people can be saying fog lights are bright and blinding and that there not aimed low like low beams, the whole purpose of them is to be low to the ground and aimed low so that the light isn't shining up into the rain/snow/fog making the visibility shitty for the driver, just like they say not to use your brights in that shit. and you cant group driving lights and fog lights together. driving lights act the same way as high beams and are aimed to light down the road used out in the country at night with no oncoming traffic as are high beams.

and the whole tailgating thing, if someone rides my ass i left off the gas slow way down and as they go to pass i pin it just to piss them off because they already pissed me off by riding my ass.

digitalquirk

12-24-2004, 08:54 PM

^The problem with fog lights isn't how they are aimed, but rather the glare they produce. Low beam headlights are designed specifically to prevent glare to oncoming traffic. That's why modern headlights are as complicated as they are...much of their design is to prevent low-beam glare. Fog lights, on the other hand, are little more than big flashlights. There's absolutely nothing in their design to prevent glare. Even when they're aimed down to the ground, they still produce a lot of glare. It's that glare that creates the problem for oncoming traffic.

The problem of glare is amplified for drivers who have to wear glasses when driving. It's also much more prominent when you get outside of the city away from street lights. See, the light from your fog lights doesn't travel in a straight line; their "Hot spot" may be aimed down, but the stray light that creates the glare is still going everywhere.

Now, during inclement weather, like in fog, rain, snow, etc., you basically have droplets of water in the air in one form or another that absorbs or reflects away most of that glare, so it's not that big of a problem. However, when it's clear out and there's no traffic lights to help out, glare becomes a real problem.

Oh, and it's people like you why everybody wants cars that have more horsepower and go faster. It's also why some people carry guns in their glove compartment. I remember passing a guy in his Volkswagen and he sped up, but his Jetta was no match for my Grand Am GT. I passed him whether he wanted me to or not. ;)