headers

[ragepsych0]

how much of a gain can i expect from an slp catback with headers from partsforyourcar.com? just wondering if headers are worth it.

thanks in advance -Jason

[H.O. Driver]

TOG dyno tested a 18hp gain with the headers and SLP claims a 10-12hp gain. TOG is at teh wheels so its about a 23-25hp gain at the crank, so roughly a 30-35hp gain, since HP is not linear we can only give you a rough guess.

However there would be a noticeble gain in the butt dyno ;)

[ragepsych0]

thanks man, im gonna do that for sure then soon

[FORTEEN3GT]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
TOG dyno tested a 18hp gain with the headers and SLP claims a 10-12hp gain. TOG is at teh wheels so its about a 23-25hp gain at the crank, so roughly a 30-35hp gain, since HP is not linear we can only give you a rough guess.

However there would be a noticeble gain in the butt dyno ;)

S & S is better!

[GrandAmKid16]

how much does S&S run? Do you know any websites I could order from?

[H.O. Driver]

http://www.ssheaders.com/ for the SS, you can get them for realitively cheap, for a GA that is.

People have good results with both headers, but there has been some problems with the TOGs blowing out gaskets, don't know if its install error or just a bad gasket situation.

[mopowr79]

Who has headers for a 2004 Grand Am SE? All the ones I see stop at 2001. Will a set for a 2001 fit a 2004? Inquiring minds want t know, because for $350 a set, the S&S looks alright. mopowr79

[HondaCivicsSuck]

i know i pickeded up about 10hp from my SLP cat-back

[ragepsych0]

that is your only performance mod, and you are getting low 15s, wow, slp must be good. how does it sound?

[Blackrider]

TOG's have been Dyno Proven so thats a big selling point for them,
S&S Have longer primarys so who knoes what that will do for power.

I still say S&S over TOG.

[HondaCivicsSuck]

Originally posted by ragepsych0
that is your only performance mod, and you are getting low 15s, wow, slp must be good. how does it sound?


thats not my only mod anymore.... I have not Cat. it sounds sweet! kinda raspy. but thats SLP for you

i have a few other things done now so i should be in the 14's

[mthegodfather]

Headers and a full exhaust can make a huge difference.

[mthegodfather]

Make sure you go with a high-flow cat when doing the upgrade.

[ragepsych0]

ah, a high-flow cat, where do i pick this up?

[mthegodfather]

I have a magnaflow high flow cat on mine. You can get them anywhere. I purchased mine from the muffler shop that installed my exhaust.

[coupe]

I love my SnS headers,highflow cat, SLP configuration. They seem to work, cut .5 off my 1/4 just by adding the headers.

[ragepsych0]

I live my life a quarter-pounder at a time. And for those 500 calories or more, im free. I need FRIESSSS! Two of them. The big ones. Oh, and i need them tonight. Youre lucky the double shot of BBQ sauce didnt blow a seam on your nugget box. There she is, 2 pounds of pure beef. My dad ate it in 9.0 seconds flat. Check it out, its like this. If i lose, winner takes my happy meal. But if i win, I take the burger and the toy. To some people, thats more important.


lol, that is funny.

[kickarsgrdam01]

ohh...SLP sounds sooo good...i love it, i can't wait to get headers, and yeah it is totally worth it money wise for headers and cat-back

[kickarsgrdam01]

when i get headers i am getting the others guys headers, the S&S i have heard of people haveing trouble with the down pipe because it is that steel mesh and you can blow it out, and it is really expenisve to get it fived, the other guy headers have a solid steel down pipe

[ragepsych0]

thanks guys, you helped me a lot. i now have enough mods to take my next 15 paychecks lol

1. lowering springs (installed this friday!!!)
2. exhaust SLP cat-back (next week)
3. electric exhaust cutout (for fun!!!)
4. headers TOG
5. Turbocharger system running 9psi

with these mods i should be running low 13s in 1/4

[ragepsych0]

one more question,

after i turbo my car, is there anything else that i should do to the engine? maybe to just keep it together, and not kill it. nothing unnecessary please.

[MJE95GAGT]

Headers come with the only turbo kit that is available so wait on that. And don't be upset when you don't hit low 13s with just those mods and 9psi cuz I will tell you right now it isnt going to happen.

[ragepsych0]

ok, correct me if im wrong. but the RSM racing GA has 225 hp at the tires, and he does 13s in the 1/4. so, if my car had the 265 provided by the turbo running at 9psi and the other 10 from my cat-back and another 10 above that from the exhaust cutout, then why wont my car do 13s?

[ragepsych0]

also member deek00 has a turbo only running at 5.5psi and he ran a 14.1 . so tell me that running at 9psi will not take off .2 and make me run in the 13s

[MJE95GAGT]

I never said that set up couldnt do 13s, I just said it wouldnt do low 13s. High 13s is more reasonable

[vainot4u]

Wow that's a nice list of mods....I would however recomend seeing if there are aftermarket parts for your tranny and drivetrain (i.e. forged crank). I only say this because I would hate to see you have to rebuild your trans. or worse yet buy a new one. Just a thought though, other than that sounds like a winner. :bigok:

[ragepsych0]

thanks guys.

[30thAnnGAGT]

^ He's right. Tranny is going to go "boom" in a hurry.

There are currently no aftermarket upgrades for the 4T645E that are worth while. The problem is the chains that break. A shift kit would alleviate this problem IF the chains were accessible. However it's not feasible. SO, the best idea would be a 4T65E swap with a custom 1/2 shaft.

[ragepsych0]

well, my step dad is a master tech at a local pontiac dealership, so ill have him look at it after i get the turbo on, and see if he can strengthen the tranny. thanks for that info though man.

[vainot4u]

Just wondering....what's the diff. between those two tranny's...what car did the 4T65E come in?...how hard of a job are we talking about?

It seems all too often that a modification if not VERY carefully planned can go sour...especially when working on a budget.:cool:

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by vainot4u
Just wondering....what's the diff. between those two tranny's...what car did the 4T65E come in?...how hard of a job are we talking about?

It seems all too often that a modification if not VERY carefully planned can go sour...especially when working on a budget.:cool:
The 4t65E came in the W-bodies, impala, monte, GP GTs, Regal, (the non SC ones). You have to notch the frame is a spot or tow to give it clearance and also have custom/shorter half shafts made to keep the front tires in teh correct spots. The other needed would be a custom PCM tune to have it shift right and etc.. since its electronicly controlled. I am sure DHP could do it, since our PCMs are the same as teh GP the coding should be in there, it just needs to be found, turned on and matched to the car. I think you could use a monte or impala PCM to since the coding is there for the 3400 & 4t65e, it would just have to be altered to recognize the N-body BCM.

[HondaCivicsSuck]

/\ thats cool!

[98GundamSE]

All you 3400 guys are lucky. Us 3100's dont have nearly as much aftermarket support as the 3400's do.

Sorry for posting off topic.

[DowmaceWH99]

Rage, your not going to get low 13's with just the headers, turbo, and catback, I suggest you look at what all the RSM GA has, hes also got I believe, p&p UIM and LIM, p&p Heads, and TB and MAF, so without those how are you going to get all 9psi through the motor? it's got to get through the motor before you need those headers too

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by ragepsych0
also member deek00 has a turbo only running at 5.5psi and he ran a 14.1 . so tell me that running at 9psi will not take off .2 and make me run in the 13s

Got to love bench racing.

[Pte Socks]

Hehe so true Blackrider. Before you install your turbo, I, like many others, would suggest a beefed up 4T65-E tranny. Its not just the regular 4t65, its a slightly beefed up version that pontiac racing sometimes makes use of. You can find it in s/c bonny's and GP's as well as other "heavy" cars and just beef up a few things ( cant remember just what, but its in a mag somewhere in my house, saying what should be upgraded). Besides that, they arent that hard to fit in and your customization should be minimal ( hey, if they are fitting them to our smaller, J-body ecotec boys, they can fit in a GA ). Also remember, hp and torque numbers only tell you half the story. Now im not saying he cant hit in the mid to low 13's with a turbo and his upgrades, im just saying, theres more to be considered than that. Your gonna get wheel hop and you also have other conditions to consider. Ie, overall power curve, shifts and shifting ( if he beefs up his internals, he could probably re-program his ecu into rasing the shift points, by lets say 500 rpms, which can make a huge difference ), track conditions, knock sensor ( adding race gas may improve his times, sometimes it does, especially in blown engines )... And on, and on. Just do the upgrades, pay the cash and get a nice dyno for us all, then rip it up at the track and hope to god its level and the time sensors are accurate (each one can make a huge difference in your time). All in all, id say mid 13's or so, but that is just a guesstimate

[ragepsych0]

yea, that was my guestimate too. but thanks for the advice

[coupe]

Originally posted by kickarsgrdam01
when i get headers i am getting the others guys headers, the S&S i have heard of people haveing trouble with the down pipe because it is that steel mesh and you can blow it out, and it is really expenisve to get it fived, the other guy headers have a solid steel down pipe

That is so not true its not even funny. Both companies use a "mesh" flex pipe. I dont have the flex from them. I made my own. The flex isnt the problem anyway with either header company.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by coupe
That is so not true its not even funny. Both companies use a "mesh" flex pipe. I dont have the flex from them. I made my own. The flex isnt the problem anyway with either header company.

I went for a donut insted, But your right both companys use flex pipes.

[coupe]

donut?

[FORTEEN3GT]

Originally posted by kickarsgrdam01
i have heard of people haveing trouble with the down pipe because it is that steel mesh and you can blow it out, and it is really expenisve to get it fived, the other guy headers have a solid steel down pipe

wtf are you talkin about...?

the flex pipe does not blow out!!! you are making a mistake by going with TOG.... more money for the same thing? also tog is 3 pieces where s & S is only two!

.5 is about right for gains. or .3 in the 8th

[FORTEEN3GT]

Originally posted by ragepsych0

4. headers TOG
5. Turbocharger system running 9psi

with these mods i should be running low 13s in 1/4

how the heck are you gonna fit on a set of "overpriced headers" and a turbocharger? you gonna modify the headers (cut em up) to mount the turbo to? how ya gonna do both of them??





must be a newb!

[H.O. Driver]

I like the TOG design, but these are the only difference I see, TOG are HP proven (except for seth, but he put down good numbers with all the KR) and S&S are track proven. If I was to get headers I would get TOGs :)

The only way I could see getting TOGs then a turbo is to get the TOGs on the car till it was time to turbo, then sell the TOGs once they are taken off to start the turbo project.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
I like the TOG design, but these are the only difference I see, TOG are HP proven (except for seth, but he put down good numbers with all the KR) and S&S are track proven. If I was to get headers I would get TOGs :)

The only way I could see getting TOGs then a turbo is to get the TOGs on the car till it was time to turbo, then sell the TOGs once they are taken off to start the turbo project.
I would Prefure track proven over dyno proven any day. for obvious reasons. I have herd of many bad sets of TOG headers. Compaired to S&S.

All around I think TOG's are just overprices. But i only paid 500CND for my headers :P

[ChevelleSSLS6]

Originally posted by ragepsych0
that is your only performance mod, and you are getting low 15s, wow, slp must be good. how does it sound?

the website
www.exhaustsoundclips.com

or a direct link
http://www.exhaustsoundclips.com/sound/gm_alero_3.4v6_slp_stainless_pn31027_catback_dual_ out_quadtips.html

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I would Prefure track proven over dyno proven any day. for obvious reasons. I have herd of many bad sets of TOG headers. Compaired to S&S.

All around I think TOG's are just overprices. But i only paid 500CND for my headers :P
yea I know what you are saying, so far its only Schweappe thats really proved anything, hopefully there will be more soon.

Does Pucci have S&S or TOG?

I have a little theory about the TOGs being problems, and it has to do with stock cats ;)

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
yea I know what you are saying, so far its only Schweappe thats really proved anything, hopefully there will be more soon.

Does Pucci have S&S or TOG?

I have a little theory about the TOGs being problems, and it has to do with stock cats ;)


Pucci has traction thats what he has lol.

[TheNewLMHDesign]

how the heck are you gonna fit on a set of "overpriced headers" and a turbocharger? you gonna modify the headers (cut em up) to mount the turbo to? how ya gonna do both of them??

he made a mistake. The turbo system comes with a new set of headers, it won't be the "overpriced headers," it'll be the companies version I believe.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
yea I know what you are saying, so far its only Schweappe thats really proved anything, hopefully there will be more soon.

Does Pucci have S&S or TOG?

I have a little theory about the TOGs being problems, and it has to do with stock cats ;)
yea, if he had a 2.1 60ft he would have ran 14.8 like everyone else. Did he use DRs or street tires for that? I have a set of DRs but my short times are the same as my street tire times, car doesn't have enough power to launch any harder, I just used them for the weight, saved my 10lbs over my stockers and they on 15s. With the DRs I hold to 2500rpm and hit it WOT off the line, no tire spin and its still 2.1s :lol:

:offtopic: You find your timeslip yet?

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
yea, if he had a 2.1 60ft he would have ran 14.8 like everyone else. Did he use DRs or street tires for that? I have a set of DRs but my short times are the same as my street tire times, car doesn't have enough power to launch any harder, I just used them for the weight, saved my 10lbs over my stockers and they on 15s. With the DRs I hold to 2500rpm and hit it WOT off the line, no tire spin and its still 2.1s :lol:

:offtopic: You find your timeslip yet?

I'm pretty sure its gone, cleaned my car out last week and couldent find it. I think when my buddy went to get my camera out of the glove box he might have knocked it out. Its gone :mad: A well I know what my car runs thats all that matters. But DAMN would i have loved to hit a 2.1 60 foot!

BTW there is a nice kill stroy in the raceing section :)

[HondaCivicsSuck]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I'm pretty sure its gone, cleaned my car out last week and couldent find it. I think when my buddy went to get my camera out of the glove box he might have knocked it out. Its gone :mad: A well I know what my car runs thats all that matters. But DAMN would i have loved to hit a 2.1 60 foot!

BTW there is a nice kill stroy in the raceing section :)


i think i could of hit a 2.1 60ft with DR's also :(

[ragepsych0]

Originally posted by TheNewLMHDesign
he made a mistake. The turbo system comes with a new set of headers, it won't be the "overpriced headers," it'll be the companies version I believe.

yes, at first i was going to get TOG headers fabbed to fit with the turbo, but then i realized the kit i wanted already has headers, so therefore i dont need to worry about that.

must be a noob

and also, yes, i am a noob, but luckily im not an idiot, so thereofore, all of my mods are getting professionally installed. thank you come again. i hate people like you.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by ragepsych0
yes, at first i was going to get TOG headers fabbed to fit with the turbo, but then i realized the kit i wanted already has headers, so therefore i dont need to worry about that.



and also, yes, i am a noob, but luckily im not an idiot, so thereofore, all of my mods are getting professionally installed. thank you come again. i hate people like you.

there is pretty much no way to rig TOG's to feed a turbo. The frount header yes, the rear is the issue. But as you said, the Kit already comes with Turbo Headers.

[DarkPhoenix]

I was thinking about building a turbo motor, but I was gonna get the Aluminum Bow Tie block and build it to rev to like 8k, with lots of boost!! All aluminum 3.4l V6, with a Turbo, and I plan on finding out more about the 6 speed that is coming in the G6. That is my plan.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by DarkPhoenix
I was thinking about building a turbo motor, but I was gonna get the Aluminum Bow Tie block and build it to rev to like 8k, with lots of boost!! All aluminum 3.4l V6, with a Turbo, and I plan on finding out more about the 6 speed that is coming in the G6. That is my plan.

good luck thats a boat moter.

[DarkPhoenix]

It's actually a GM race block that can be set up for FWD or RWD. The block weighs 59 lbs as opposed 129 for the regular Iron Block.

[Pte Socks]

Wow, its somewhat become a ***** fest. What im curious about, is the the headers? Does anyone really know the differences between the S&S and TOG headers? Ive heard of some wild things in my days on these boards and im really curious as to what people actually know. The reason I bring this up is because the S&S header site has some really good info on headers and considerations. You have to decide on the tubing size, the primary lenghts, the type of piping ( Coated vs uncoated ), the collectors, etc. Those who are interested in investing in some headers might want to check this site out to learn about them.

[master]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I would Prefure track proven over dyno proven any day. for obvious reasons. I have herd of many bad sets of TOG headers. Compaired to S&S.

All around I think TOG's are just overprices. But i only paid 500CND for my headers :P

Where did you buy your headers for only $500?????

RSM Racing just put out there new headers, has anybody heard any good/bad things about them yet? They're selling for $1000 CDN, or $1250 for coated ones.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by master
Where did you buy your headers for only $500?????

RSM Racing just put out there new headers, has anybody heard any good/bad things about them yet? They're selling for $1000 CDN, or $1250 for coated ones.
He got uncoated S&S headers, you can order them with out coating or a flexpipe and downpipe for pretty cheap.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
He got uncoated S&S headers, you can order them with out coating or a flexpipe and downpipe for pretty cheap.
That and i bought them off a friend, :) They where never used

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by Blackrider
That and i bought them off a friend, :) They where never used
You too eh? I got my TOG's for $500, only slightly used ;) ceramic coated too :D

[master]

Do you know if there's a distributor/dealer in Canada for S&S or TOG?

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
You too eh? I got my TOG's for $500, only slightly used ;) ceramic coated too :D
500 Canadain :P
Originally posted by master
Do you know if there's a distributor/dealer in Canada for S&S or TOG?

Nope you have to order from the states.

[coupe]

Thats messed up.
I hit 2.1's all day on nothing but street tires that arent even meant for racing. But yet i cant hit a 14.9 to save my life.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by coupe
Thats messed up.
I hit 2.1's all day on nothing but street tires that arent even meant for racing. But yet i cant hit a 14.9 to save my life.
You will this spring, don't worry Rand we should have some cool things to come this spring :D

[Texican]

ragepsych0, don't figure your hp by adding the advertised gains together, it doesn't work that way and is considered "ricer math". Parts have a habit of cancelling each other out if they weren't designed together. Ie- the manufacturer of the intake claims 5-10hp gain and the manufacturer of the exhaust is claiming 10-15 hp. That doesn't mean you'll get a net gain of 15-25 hp. Chances are, you'll net maybe 8-10hp with both together. Some parts would actually need another part to make the claimed gains (ie- for the exhaust to give you 10-15hp, you would need to add cams, and to have the cams make thier advertised power, you would need adjustable cam gears)

Another example would be my neon. With all of the bolt-ons and engine mods I've made, if I added all of the manufacturers claimed gains together, I would be pushing about 225-250whp. In fact, I'm running with about 185whp.

For those of you wanting to buy headers, but find them just too expensive, design and make your own. You have everything you need already (the stock manifold(s) will give you a template for the flange). If you buy the material and take the template to a machine shop, you'll end up paying for labor. Take the machined flange to an exhaust shop and have them design the header(s). This should cost a grand total of $125 for a 4 cylinder header. Try 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" primaries and 2-1/2" to 3" catback exhaust pipe.

Designing a turbo system for a car that doesn't originally come with turbo is a notorious headache. Are the stock pistons and connecting rods strong enough for the boost you want? Will you need a "stand alone" fuel system? Bigger injectors? Higher fuel pressure? Will the stock ecu retard ignition timing enough? Or would you need a stand alone for that too? Will you need a way to cool the cylinders while under boost? Will the head flow properly, or will you be under a constant "lag"? Will you need to tune the cam timing to match flow?

Good luck.

[syclonedave]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
You too eh? I got my TOG's for $500, only slightly used ;) ceramic coated too :D


So are they on & if so do you FEEL a diff?

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by syclonedave
So are they on & if so do you FEEL a diff?
Yea quite a bit, pulls a lot harder down low in the RPM band but 45-70mph is a noticably quicker. It will burn them from a 25mph roll now :D ( and yes that is on dry pavement :P )

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
Yea quite a bit, pulls a lot harder down low in the RPM band but 45-70mph is a noticably quicker. It will burn them from a 25mph roll now :D ( and yes that is on dry pavement :P )
Get Better tires :P

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by Blackrider
Get Better tires :P
less then 10k of decent driving (no burnouts till now) Potenza RE 950s, these things are bricks, they way the same as the 17s I had with BFG Comp T/As but on stock rims! Next dry day I will go out and take some videos, I have to wash the car though first ;)

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
less then 10k of decent driving (no burnouts till now) Potenza RE 950s, these things are bricks, they way the same as the 17s I had with BFG Comp T/As but on stock rims! Next dry day I will go out and take some videos, I have to wash the car though first ;)

Always depends what kind of surface i'm on, sometimes i can hook like mad, other times first is completely usless. I know where your coming from.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by Blackrider
Always depends what kind of surface i'm on, sometimes i can hook like mad, other times first is completely usless. I know where your coming from.
I know what you mean, there is a few stretches in this town were the road seams slippery even with the road being dry, but thats over by campus where all the dealership kids do burnouts with the pep vehicles they are driving :lol:

[30thAnnGAGT]

Have them throw down some VHT out there would ya TIM!? :D

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by 30thAnnGAGT
Have them throw down some VHT out there would ya TIM!? :D
I was thinking about getting some for some reason. :D There is a nice strip that is somewhat secluded, it has enough room to do a 1/4mi run and stop intime for the stop sign, too bad its next to the highway and only a 35mph zone :eek:

[Pte Socks]

Whats the difference between uncoated vs coated? Also, are both made out of stainless steel? Ive heard that coated headers allow the headers to remain a nice colour while uncoated ones turn to a more, well "heat treated" Steel appearance.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
Whats the difference between uncoated vs coated? Also, are both made out of stainless steel? Ive heard that coated headers allow the headers to remain a nice colour while uncoated ones turn to a more, well "heat treated" Steel appearance.
The uncoated will rust on you depending on how well you take car of your engine bay. I know the ceramic coated TOGs will cool down to being able to grab them with a bare hand in <10mins. The coated will also help keep the heat in the tubing better, so less heat soak, takes longer to get heat soaked engine bay.

[coupe]

I hope so man.
This GA hits 2.1's on street tires, pulls like monster, has all neccasary (sp?) mods and yet i cant hit a 14.9. I figure 2.1 60's are weak since im on street tires, it can do better than that im sure. Since my 60's seem to be beyond normal with these mods i can only assume my launches are flawless, guys with DR's cant even hit 2.1's. Confusion is all there is right now with me.

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by coupe
I hope so man.
This GA hits 2.1's on street tires, pulls like monster, has all neccasary (sp?) mods and yet i cant hit a 14.9. I figure 2.1 60's are weak since im on street tires, it can do better than that im sure. Since my 60's seem to be beyond normal with these mods i can only assume my launches are flawless, guys with DR's cant even hit 2.1's. Confusion is all there is right now with me.
I will let you make a pass or two with the DRs and just see how hard you can launch with them. I am sure we can squeeze some good times out of it ;)

[30thAnnGAGT]

Originally posted by H.O. Driver
I was thinking about getting some for some reason. :D There is a nice strip that is somewhat secluded, it has enough room to do a 1/4mi run and stop intime for the stop sign, too bad its next to the highway and only a 35mph zone :eek:


Rumor had it someone, had some, in his basement in a home, over off of Van Dyke :D

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by 30thAnnGAGT
Rumor had it someone, had some, in his basement in a home, over off of Van Dyke :D
We are going to have to check this out ;) Come spring time though when we could actually use it :D

[HondaCivicsSuck]

tim how much where ur DR's? i bet i can hit 1.9 2.0 with a set

am hitting 2.1's right now

[Pte Socks]

Thx H.O. Driver, but do you know if they are both made out of stainless steel? I would imagine so but im not absolutly sure. The reason I ask is because I know the make cat-back exhausts that are made out of mild steel that are coated to help prevent corrosion

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by HondaCivicsSuck
tim how much where ur DR's? i bet i can hit 1.9 2.0 with a set

am hitting 2.1's right now
Joe I hit just as good 60fts with the street tires on, but the DRs are much lighter than my stockers, so its a trade off. But just ask anyone, Your Toyo Proxies are much lighter than my Bridgestone Potenza's :D

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
Thx H.O. Driver, but do you know if they are both made out of stainless steel? I would imagine so but im not absolutly sure. The reason I ask is because I know the make cat-back exhausts that are made out of mild steel that are coated to help prevent corrosion
I would imagine it is stainless, I know blackrider's still look good without coating on them and he has harsh canadian winters. I am sure if you clean your bay in the winter to get the salt off it will keep them okay looking, it would look like regular exhuast piping, but people could defnitly tell they are not stock ;) I know my stainless steal SLP piping is rusting pretty badly, whe had to cut the bolts off at the flang becuse the flange had the bolts rusted in and air tools couldn't budge them loose. If you are a person that religouly cleans the engine bay you will be fine, but if you are lazy like me get the coateds :D

[Pte Socks]

Alright, well knowing my insanity for durability, I think Ill be getting coated headers. Thx again man for in info.

[FlatlineGA]

you have an insanity for durability, yet you drive a pontiac, make up your mind

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
you have an insanity for durability, yet you drive a pontiac, make up your mind
It all depends on the luck you have and how you treat your care aswell ;) The worst thing that has happened to mine was the alt. Other than that its been a great car! On my 96 GT I had problems with everything but the motor, the thing was a tank!

[FlatlineGA]

well pontiacs aren't exactly notorious for durability

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
well pontiacs aren't exactly notorious for durability
I am sure every single car made out there has its problems, theres always the bad apples running around in a group.