turbo vs supercharger

[02silverse1ga]

what is the best to get supercharger or turbo for my 2002 grand am its the v-6.....and where can i find these ifi can find them at all?

[sunrunner_pei]

Originally posted by 02silverse1ga
what is the best to get supercharger or turbo for my 2002 grand am its the v-6.....and where can i find these ifi can find them at all?

RSM Racing (www.rsmracing.com) has a supercharger available for the 3400 V6... Check them out. :)

[flyerhawk1085]

Turbo=Import
Supercharger=American
Enough said lol

[VanishingImage]

turbos i have found out don't use much fuel when your drivng,the supercharge i found out does because its at a more higher spin.But i would rather go with super,more horses

[EgDeViLBoY]

turbo = power once you hit a certain speed
supercharger = constant power boost

[MJE95GAGT]

not necessarily with a centrifugal S/C, they build boost up through rpms like a turbo but still drives through the belt

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by flyerhawk1085
Turbo=Import
Supercharger=American
Enough said lol

Please thats one of the worst statements I have ever read.

Open your forced induction text books to page 69 . . .

301 V8 Turbo TransAm

Pre-84 Buick Regal 3.8 Turbo

Rare Early '80s Turbo Monte Carlo

'84-'87 Buick Grand National, T-Type, TurboT 3.8 SFI Turbo

Mid to late 80's Grand Am Turbo

'84-'86 Mustang SVO Turbo

Mid 80's Turbo K-Car

Mid '80's Dodge Omni GLH and GLHS Turbo

Mid to Late 80's Dodge Shelby Turbo

Mid to Late 80s Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler Turbo Minivans

Late '80s Thunderbird Turbo Coupe

1989 20th Anniversary Trans Am 3.8 SFI Turbo *cough*

Early '90s Grand Prix 3.1 MPFI Turbo

GMC Syclone, Typhoon 4.3 SFI Turbo

All the tons of Turbo Deisel Trucks.
Not factory but very worthy to include, the 200+mph Dodge Dakota 6 cylinder Banks Turbo Deisel.

And this is just a few off the top of my head. Now how many factory domestics came with a supercharger???

" Enough Said ! "
Originally posted by VanishingImage
turbos i have found out don't use much fuel when your drivng,the supercharge i found out does because its at a more higher spin.But i would rather go with super,more horses
This is true. With my wastegate open and no actually boost being made I'm cruising around at about 2200rpm it like a normal 3.8 V6 with 8:1 static compression which is pretty easy on the fuel (for a 3700lbs car, lol). A supercharged car at 2200rpm is making boost, and with the added air, added fuel is required.
Originally posted by EgDeViLBoY
turbo = power once you hit a certain speed
supercharger = constant power boost
I don't want to say this is incorrect but lets just say it's not true.

Speed has nothing to do with it.
Wastegate, impeller size, rpm, etc determines when boost is applied.

With the right setup you can make boost right off of idle, but why? Only good it'll do is help you smoke the tires, unless your running a pure dragset up with slicks and a adjustable 4 link rearend. Actually often lag is set so the power comes in a bit off idle to prevent from breaking loose on the launch.

I would also like to note that turbos are more adjustable than superchargers. You can run different wastegates, and electronically adjustable internal/external wastegates for certain ammount of boost at certain rpms. You can do simular tricks to a centrifugal supercharger but they aren't common and not a option on most setups.

[1988LX]

:agree: :agree: :agree:

[flyerhawk1085]

Please thats one of the worst statements I have ever read.

Ok, let me change my statement:

Lets talk 95+ cars:

Grand Prix GTP
Mustang Cobra
Buick Regal
Ford Lightning
SVT Harley

Now Imports:
I cant think of any!?
Supra Turbo
WRX- Turbo
Eclipse- Turbo

and from what ive noticed at my work, more turbos go on imports and more superchargers go on american cars!

[MJE95GAGT]

Watch where you are aiming that gun there bud. John is one of the most knowledgeable people on the site. Fact is turbos are THE most effective kind of FI in ANY kind of car.

[92CamaroRS]

TURBOS BY FAR ARE BETTER! yes you might not have boost off the line but thats a good thing if you had boost you would break the wheels lose! also with some extra little goodies you can adjust the boost from inside the car! and you can run say 5 psi on the street and when you go to the strip crank it up to 15 psi! with a supercharger you will have to change the pully and that would take more time! my belief is that american car companies use superchargers cuz they are cheaper to make cuz there are less parts. the imports use them cuz the money they save making the car they put into the turbo kit! thats my view

[flyerhawk1085]

What are wa fans of here import or domestic cars (Grand Ams). Ill tell ya, if my life was on it, id rather hop in a supercharged vette than a souped up turbo RX-7.

[92CamaroRS]

ok tell me what car won car and drivers "Super Car Challenge"?

[MJE95GAGT]

:agree:
give me a TT Vette or Viper anyday

[92CamaroRS]

bingo a TT VETTE was the winner of the supercar challenge! in fact every car in that compatition was Turbocharged and go look at lingenfelters site i dont believe he puts a supercharger on any of the cars he sups up

[MJE95GAGT]

Actually they do, not very popular tho (I wonder why :rolleyes: ) and no where close to the power the turbos make

[MJE95GAGT]

pick your poison http://www.lingenfelter.com/packagesyls1.asp

[CDR Speed]

America has produced a hell of alot more turbo cars than any other country. Heck, we've made more cars period, so it stands to reason i suppose. Don't forget though, the worlds fastest accelerating internal combustion machines are still blown, not turbo'd. Main reason being that turbos introduce a restriction into the exhaust that limits their exhaust flow and thus power producing abilities. I think the more accurate statement would be that smaller engines respond better to turbos, while larger engines run better with superchargers. Your average turbo engine is ALOT smaller than your average blown engine. Neither is better, they just both have strong and weak points. As for what would be best for your car, depending on the year you have, i would go out and get an 89-91 pontiac grand prix turbo. The powertrain in those isnt the greatest for reliability, but it moved out. I have helped a few people with this swap, and it has worked well for them, but that was in Ca. If you're anywhere near the milwaukee/chicago area, let me know, i would love to do somethin like that again, Thanks, Dave.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by flyerhawk1085
Ok, let me change my statement:

Lets talk 95+ cars:

Grand Prix GTP
Mustang Cobra
Buick Regal
Ford Lightning
SVT Harley

Now Imports:
I cant think of any!?
Supra Turbo
WRX- Turbo
Eclipse- Turbo

and from what ive noticed at my work, more turbos go on imports and more superchargers go on american cars!

So your talking about 'Trends' then? And Sure I've seen alot of Import with turbos, but then again I see alot with Jackson superchargers installed too. actually a Jackson supercharger is better on a Civic than a turbo. Why? Because the Civic responds very well from the added off idle power as it in stock forms lacks bottom end power.

And have you looked around the NHRA lately? Dominated by domestics correct? Well take a closer look and check out how many people are running Turbochargers. You might be surprised.

Now let me see...
We have the 3.8 Series II that is put in the GrandPrixGTP, BonnivilleSSEi, and RegalGS. One motor three cars.
The 4.6 Supercharged in the Cobra, *edited* Lightening and 5.4 HD are all about the same.
But while your talking Domestics don't forget the NeonSRT, which is turbocharged since those cars I listed previously some reason do not apply. After all they are just as domestic, if not MORE than current production vehicles. Seeing as Buick had a turbocharged motor that dates back over five decades. I'm not sure I can think of any 50 yearold Imports with one.

I'm not saying Imports don't use turbos, why shouldn't they. They need something to keep up with the NA domestics. I don't care about 'trends', history shows the amount of turbo cars detriot has produced which makes it clear that turbos aren't just for imports.

Now talking about a Supercharged Vette I only have one thing to say to that. Lingenfelter Twin Turbo.

[MJE95GAGT]

Not to nit pick John but I think the Lightning uses the 5.4 from the Navigator

[CDR Speed]

TA^, i'm on your side, so don't shoot, lol. Just thought i would tell you that the only similarities between the Lightning/H-D pickup motor and the 03 cobra motor is limited to the type of material used in their construction. You may or may not know this, but the 03 cobra has Manley H-beam billet connecting rods from the factory, whereas the Lightning/H-D motor uses a modified version of the rods found in the 2000 cobra R. The Lightning/H-D motor is a 5.4L SOHC 16 valve setup while the cobra uses a 4.6L 4 cam 32 valve setup. But you're mostly correct, they DO come from the same line and family of engines.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by MJE95GAGT
Not to nit pick John but I think the Lightning uses the 5.4 from the Navigator
Well thank you sir. It's ashame it uses a larger displacement motor but still isn't as nice as the Lightening.
Originally posted by CDR Speed
TA^, i'm on your side, so don't shoot, lol. Just thought i would tell you that the only similarities between the Lightning/H-D pickup motor and the 03 cobra motor is limited to the type of material used in their construction. You may or may not know this, but the 03 cobra has Manley H-beam billet connecting rods from the factory, whereas the Lightning/H-D motor uses a modified version of the rods found in the 2000 cobra R. The Lightning/H-D motor is a 5.4L SOHC 16 valve setup while the cobra uses a 4.6L 4 cam 32 valve setup. But you're mostly correct, they DO come from the same line and family of engines.

Thanks for the info, for some reason I was under the impression they were the same. I guess I haven't been reading enough MuscleMustangs&FastFords lately. lol Not a Ford guy, but I have to know what my opponents are up to these days. :)

[CDR Speed]

How true sir, how very true. I'm not really a ford fan, my most hated car of all time is the 86-96 taurus and anything with a 3.8 liter ford is a close second, yes, even the mustangs equipped with said heap. The worst engine ever made is a ford (3.8). So i'm not died in the wool, i just like the mustang, the crown vic, and whatever evil critter the SVT group is cookin up. Hell, there's even an SVT i don't like due to head gasket and some trans issues, the 95-02 contour SVT and then the focus SVT becuase it's such a turd, and an overpriced one to boot.

[LoneRangers15]

I know this would cost a lot more money, but why not run a twin turbo on a GA? One turbo for low RPM and one for high RPM.

[92CamaroRS]

lack of room and lack of other mods that would be needed such as tranny fortification and other stuff and this engine in truth isnt meant to perform in that way

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by LoneRangers15
I know this would cost a lot more money, but why not run a twin turbo on a GA? One turbo for low RPM and one for high RPM.

It 'could' be done, but to make it worth the effort the motor would have to have some nice internals.

Modern turbos don't have as much lag as some people think. And getting the impellers ceramic coated reduces it even more.

But yes, maybe a 2.2 Ecotec could handle a nice T3 and T60 setup with about 20-26lbs of boost. :)

[LoneRangers15]

Can you run a turbo and nitrous oxide at the same time.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by LoneRangers15
Can you run a turbo and nitrous oxide at the same time.
Yes you can. But it's VERY tricky to tune.

N2O and Forced Induction are doing the same thing. Delivering more Oxygen to the cylinders so more fuel can be burnt to make more power.

Generally when N2O and a turbo is used it to
A) Reduce lag from a large turbo.
B) Cool the intake charge.

My '84 GN is what they call a 'Hot Air' turbo setup because I do not have a intercooler. I was thinking of running a 40-50shot of N2O for the cooling effect it will have. The hp rating or 'shot' size already has the added gain from the cooling effect estimated in. But thats on a N/A car. Not only would I gain the added 40-50hp but cooling the hot compressed air will allow more to run a bit more fuel for a little more power. I was hoping in gaining maybe 50-55-hp and 75ft/lbs by doing so.

Running large ammounts of N2O and a turbo will require less boost. Or more boost less N2O. And this is after you already have figured out what the motor can handle. Too much, is too much doesn't matter if it's bottle or boost.

[CDR Speed]

hey TA^Guy, i'm not sure if you knew this, but john lingenfelter runs an EcoTec in his IDRA Quick 8 Chevy Cadaver. Oh yeah, did i mention that he runs average 7.40's and over 40 lbs of boost ? Not bad for a production block and head, especially for an engine design that GM swiped from SAAB that was conceived in 1982.

[TA^Guy]

Well he broke 6's with that Ecotec, but I don't think he'll ever do it again.
:(

Incase you didn't know, that Cavlier cost him his life. Although he's not dead, he's not living either.

[CDR Speed]

Whoa, last i heard, he was in rehab in his home town in indiana and expected to make a 90% recovery of all use of his body. I know that crash was bad, hit the wall at 110 and then the car went to full throttle, riding the wall about 1000' and then slamming into the sand pit at the end. Wow, that's too bad if he doesnt make it back to good health. Maybe it's not such a good idea to get rid of so much weight in the interest of going fast. Those IDRA guys cars minimumm weight is an appauling 2K lbs, whereas the NHRA Pro-Stock cars thosee things are based on weigh 2900. That extra weight may slow you down, but those Pro-Stock guys have hit the wall at full tilt, got out, and simply walked away. I hope the import crowd has learned something from this, but knowing them as well as i do, i kinda doubt it. :idunno:

[TA^Guy]

From what I understand hewas getting better but after being moved slipped back into a comma like state. Maybe he is getting better, I sure hope he is. Along with Jon A Moss, Lingenfelter is a God to me. I'll go check out his website now for more information.

This info is about 2 months old and has yet been updated. I would hope if his situation changes they would update it.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/JLStatus.asp

Here's a 2.2 for sale. http://www.lingenfelter.com/ebay/modcar.htm

[biggnome]

Originally posted by CDR Speed
The worst engine ever made is a ford (3.8).

I'm not a ord guy either but watch which 3.8 you talk about. The 3.8SC in the Super Coupes is a totally different engine from the standard 3.8. I can't find the info right now but the engine came with a deep skirted block and hyperutectic(sp?) pistons and some other stuff I can't think of.

[LoneRangers15]

Does anyone have pictures of the difference between a twin turbo and turbo? I have seen both but never a side by side comparison.

[TA^Guy]

Well there are different ways to go about a dual turbo setup. There is twin turbos where they are both the same size, then there are bi-turbos that usually differ. Sometimes mounted side by side or mounted on opposite sides of the motor. It all depends on the motor and setup.

Thats one of the best things about turbos, they can be setup just about anyway you can imagine because they do not have to line up with the pulleys like a SC would.

[Marks95GAGT]

Originally posted by CDR Speed
Don't forget though, the worlds fastest accelerating internal combustion machines are still blown, not turbo'd. Main reason being that turbos introduce a restriction into the exhaust that limits their exhaust flow and thus power producing abilities. I think the more accurate statement would be that smaller engines respond better to turbos, while larger engines run better with superchargers. Your average turbo engine is ALOT smaller than your average blown engine. Neither is better, they just both have strong and weak points. As for what would be best for your car, depending on the year you have, i would go out and get an 89-91 pontiac grand prix turbo. The powertrain in those isnt the greatest for reliability, but it moved out. I have helped a few people with this swap, and it has worked well for them, but that was in Ca. If you're anywhere near the milwaukee/chicago area, let me know, i would love to do somethin like that again, Thanks, Dave.

hehehe...you do have a point....but there is a guy on the NHRA cricuit that runs a funny car, hell I can't even remember his name, and his car is turbo'd. Not supercharged or blown. The one think that makes his car different though is that he is running quad turbo's. Since the pros run engines the 600+ cid he can get away with it. That is like 4 little 1.5 Geo Prisms turboed and nitro'd...hehehe...can you just imagine....lol Anyway there is my 2 cents. Damn I wish I remember who it was. though. Have fun.

[Travis99GT]

Mike Morans camaro has been outlawed from certain racing classes because the nitro boys and the superchargers boys can no longer keep up with him. He is the MAN when it comes to building motors. His last set up was REALLY quiet and still went 6's, through mufflers. I like turbos, they're so much more efficient. All types of blowers introduce a parasitic draw somewhere in the RPM range. What was that I read, something to the effect of the blowers on top fuel cars require more HP to actually spin it then most of our cars make :D

[98_gee-tee]

What about the turbo focus thats coming out too!

[LoneRangers15]

Originally posted by Marks95GAGT
hehehe...you do have a point....but there is a guy on the NHRA cricuit that runs a funny car, hell I can't even remember his name, and his car is turbo'd. Not supercharged or blown. The one think that makes his car different though is that he is running quad turbo's. Since the pros run engines the 600+ cid he can get away with it. That is like 4 little 1.5 Geo Prisms turboed and nitro'd...hehehe...can you just imagine....lol Anyway there is my 2 cents. Damn I wish I remember who it was. though. Have fun.
Isn't a blower the same thing as a supercharger?

[Travis99GT]

Yeah, switchable word really. I sometimes say blower, sometimes say supercharger, and I sometimes call a turbo a snail. :shrug:

[Travis99GT]

Originally posted by Marks95GAGT
hehehe...you do have a point....but there is a guy on the NHRA cricuit that runs a funny car, hell I can't even remember his name, and his car is turbo'd. Not supercharged or blown. The one think that makes his car different though is that he is running quad turbo's. Since the pros run engines the 600+ cid he can get away with it. That is like 4 little 1.5 Geo Prisms turboed and nitro'd...hehehe...can you just imagine....lol Anyway there is my 2 cents. Damn I wish I remember who it was. though. Have fun.


BTW he's talking about Mike Morans camaro :D
http://hoon.itxpress.com.au/tech_tips/qtv81.html

Good spot for info :nervous:

the motor is completely gasketless :D

[CDR Speed]

Couple things, the motor is all o-ringed, not gaskteless. O-rings are very common for head gaskets, but for the rest if it is unheard of. As for the class he will run, it's NMCA Pro-Outlaw, not NHRA Funny Car. The only reason i know that is because i have a good friend that runs NMCA Pro-Outlaw in a black 2600hp TT 604" chevelle, and has moran build all of his motors for him.

[Travis99GT]

When I say gasketless I mean no paper/composite gaskets, it's all O-ringed like you said. The rings have a gas in them that expands when it gets warm and seals everything up. Technicality :p