New idea for a turbo setup...

[TA^Guy]

After reading several articals on Squires Turbo System's Remote mounted turbo setup for trucks and FBodies I thought this would work prefectly for a GA as well.

The Remote Mounted Turbo is mounted back where a our mufflers would be, and with the crossflow style setup on our vehicle the turbo would fit like a glove. Benifits would include reduced engine tempatures and under the hood heat soak from the hot turbocharger, no cramped engine compartment, no custom headers or even exhaust is needed, and since the added length of pipe back to the intake is under th ecar there is no need for a restrictive intercooler. And the turbo is cooled using a remote oil resivior and oiling system. And if your going for the element of surprise open the hood and it'll be extremely hard to tell it's turbo charged, total sleeper.

http://www.ststurbo.com/i/u/1473169/i/97__Camaro_turbo_and_exhaust_assembly.jpg
http://www.ststurbo.com/i/u/1473169/i/LS1_rear_view.jpg

Check out http://www.ststurbo.com

Now all we need is for them to make us a setup or for someone to simply modify a FBody setup.

[monkeylovr]

i wrote them an emailabout a week ago asking if they were going to make one for our cars since they are making one for an integra but no reply yet. nice vids of the product in action on there web site

[DontPassTheFence]

ok yea that is tight, but 2 things scare me, its close to the fuel tank (fuel + really hot turbo = bad!) and how exactly does it effectively make the car go faster? i knwo with a traditional turbo it crams more air into the combustion chamber, and with that extra air, add extra fuel and you effectively get more hp/tq... but this makes the exhaust gases exit quicker? maybe i am not understanding this fully, does anyone know how this works? i am curious now!!

[eric99gt]

i think you're thinking more along the lines of a supercharger. The way you explained it is how a turbo works. It removes the exhaust gases quicker(Don't quote me I could be wrong). Also this would seem like something we wouldn't need a kit for to accomplish. Just get the turbo and find a established performance shop that can do some welding.

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by eric99gt
Also this would seem like something we wouldn't need a kit for to accomplish. Just get the turbo and find a established performance shop that can do some welding.

You may be on to something John. I agree, a custom exhaust shop could do it for you.

[buckeyejack]

Seems the intake would pick up a lot of water on a rainy day. The f-body has a metal fuel tank and ours has plastic....oooo meltdown.And in that location you'd have lag big time. after a while you may have an exhaulst leak and the turbo would get hot ....I mean cherry red. Need to focus on a better location under car.

[litdevil316]

that seems like a really good idea for us. but, as said above, what about turbo lag. i could see that being a big pain in the ass like that. and is there anyway that it would loose some boost running the air all the way back up to the front?

now, the intake, that can be re-done to block water and a heat shield should help enuff with the turbo. since the turbo is tht far back, EGTs shouldnt be that hot past the cats. i might be wrong, but thats just whats going through my head looking at it.

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by eric99gt
i think you're thinking more along the lines of a supercharger. The way you explained it is how a turbo works. It removes the exhaust gases quicker(Don't quote me I could be wrong). Also this would seem like something we wouldn't need a kit for to accomplish. Just get the turbo and find a established performance shop that can do some welding.

Superchargers and turbo chargers do the exact same thing, they both force air into the combustion chamber, the difference is HOW they do it, a supercharger does it off of a belt driven by the crank(can rob some power), a turbo does it by being spun by the exhaust gases exiting the motor.

also the 93-02 f-body had a plastic gas tank also, lots of guys on the 3rd gen boards like to switch to lighten the car up.

[TA^Guy]

Ok to clear some things up...

It doesn't make the exhaust exit faster. It works the same way a typical turbo works, except it's further from the motor.

As for turbo lag, modern turbos have very little lag. If you messure the amount of pipe used in this setup, and the amount used with a intercooler I'm sure this isn't much further away. Plus if you learn to launch a turbo, lag can acutally be a benifit with a hard launch and high stall converter.

As for heat our fuel tank is under the rear seat, not back by the muffler. But if your still concerned you can always install a turbo sheild and/or turbo wrap.

I though about the water to the filte ralso but from wha tthey say it's not a major problem. I presonally would fabricate a sheild for it and use a filter wrap like they have used.

And I agree, any muffler shop should be able to fabricate the FBody setup to work with our car's exhaust.

BTW, I was just got home from helping install SLP headers, high flow cat, and Borla exhaust on a Supercharged MonteCarlo. They are still there working, I have to goto work, but after working on that I'm sure that turbo setup would go in with a breeze.

[Bart001]

Yeah hes right I just seen on Two Guys Garage or something like that How they installed it, and dynoed it...

there is no lag, cause as soon as the car is on.. the exhaust gas charges the intake making it pressureized, So he said on the show....

I Think it was in a Mustang, and went from like 285 to 400 hp
increases were about 135hp and 125lbs.......

[jayhawk]

Now that I think about it, large trucks, like semis have that same set up, too.

[DontPassTheFence]

OK, so the heat scares me less, and if there is no lag, that is cool too... And yea, I already knew turbos and superchargers did they same but one was spun by exhaust gases, and the other is spun by the belt. I would still use the heat shielding just because I am cautious when it comes to my baby... If I coud get one of those, oh man, those little monkeys in there crappy Hondas, Acuras, Lancer OZ really editions, Eclipses, Talons, all would never see it coming. Hahaha! stupid ricers!

[Azrael]

Keep in mind that this'll be just as easy to adapt to alot of imports as it could us. All in all a good example of thinking outside the box, so to speak. I would never trust having an air filter that low to the ground though. Lots of deep puddles here with the onset of spring.

[m411b]

OK, it's a nice setup. Would love to have one but don't ya think it's kinda pricy compared to the turbo setup from turbochargedpower.com?:roll2:--Which is just as good if not better and looks awesome. Yeah it's a little more work but IMO it's worth it.

[TA^Guy]

The best part about this system is that it's so simple that nearly anyone could fabricate one up, granted you know a little about turbos, motors, etc.

Purchasing a used turbo, rebuild it, remove the muffler and bend/weld up some pipe, a remote electric oil pump, resevior and maybe even a oil cooler and your pretty much golden. If you want to be cool like the Fast N Furious you could get a 'BOV' to dumping into the atmosphere too. :D

Depending on how low my next project truck goes I may just have to try this. :)
Originally posted by 1996v6corsica
why are you raggin on talons and eclipses?
stock for stock a FACTORY turbo eclipse or talon would smoke your twin cam, for that matter they can smoke a GT too, and thats factory
the DSM is such a capable car, quit bashing, show a little respect
OK don't ruin this thread with crap.

I think he meant crappy NA Eclipses.

And I DO NOT have to show those POS any respect they do not deserve.

My mother owns a '03 Eclipse and I think it's junk. Don't like my opinion, or others deal with it.

Back on Topic

[DontPassTheFence]

i concur, either way -- i am verrrry interested in these turbos, i wonder if this could be the beginnings of a group buy??? hmmm?

[m411b]

TA^GUY I understand what you are getting at now, awesome idea, but I wonder if the turbo is the same as a regular turbo? Wouldn't it have to be a pretty hefty turbo considering it has to pressurize all that piping before it hits the intake? Thats a long ways to go.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by m411b
TA^GUY I understand what you are getting at now, awesome idea, but I wonder if the turbo is the same as a regular turbo? Wouldn't it have to be a pretty hefty turbo considering it has to pressurize all that piping before it hits the intake? Thats a long ways to go.
A typical Garrett T3 turbo could be purchased for about $100-$150 or so if you shop around or pull it from a vehicle in a salvage yard. A T3 may show slight lag off the line, but once you get used to it the slight lag could make launching it easier when running street tires. My '84 Buick Grand National had slight lag from the stock turbo. If I seriously hammered the throttle at a traffic light, it would chirp the tires on the launch and then start spinning them half way through the intersection once boost was at full tilt. After driving it launching it was nearly 3/4 or more throttle off the line and then rolling into it once boost was built (about a second later).

The T3 would fill the pipe without a problem but if you wanted to go larger T4 and T44s are available. Not only do ones with ball bearing shafts last longer with less wear, they spool up quicker and help reduce lag.

As I mentioned before the overall area needed to be covered from the turbo to the throttle body probally isn't all that much more than say a vehicle with a turbo under the hood, going up in front of the car to intercooler then back into the engine compartment to the throttle body.

Plus decent intercoolers aren't cheep, not to mention a restriction in air flow. It's not uncommon to see a car that puts out 10psi at the turbo to be only making 8psi at the throttle body after going through a typical air/air intercooler.

If I were to tackle something like this on my own without a 'kit' I would probally find a decent T4, run some larger injectors, an adjustable fuel regulator. The you'd have to use an adjustable wastegate rod to help dial in the ideal pressure you want. Making a sheild or box to house the filter wouldn't be a problem. Old rule of thumb with GNs was every pound of boost you go up, you want to match it with a pound of fuel. But to make sure your not running too lean I would invest in a nice pyrometer before doing the install. Run the car a few times taking note of about where the exhaust gasses are for a guideline and thenadjsut your fuel and boost to stay about the same as it iwere during WOT.

[Gimli]

Wouldn't that cause troubles with the operation of the cat and O2 sensors? I'm thinking a regular turbo let's gases flow freely through the emissions gear but this would raise the pressure throughout the exhaust, which might keep the cat from doing it's job properly and the O2 sensors from getting accurate readings.

[robry]

well they have it on several odb2 vehicles, so I'm not certain it would cause that much back pressure. Probably no more than the stock mufflers do. Once you start spooling the turbo its going to provide even more effect at drawing the exhaust gases out of the exhaust. I can't see it being harmful at all, ever.

[schweppe23]

In no way will it pull out the exhaust gases.

[DontPassTheFence]

nothing pulls, everything pushes. Physics my friend. But still, the pressurization wont be a problem to ODBII, and if it is by some odd chance, then you can always run with no cat. (like most ricers do)

[GaSC/Tnfs]

I think this is a great idea... the only problem I can see right now is the placement of the air filter... so why not move it up closer to the engine like right before the cat converters? so you can place the filter perhaps into a fender well?

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by GaSC/Tnfs
I think this is a great idea... the only problem I can see right now is the placement of the air filter... so why not move it up closer to the engine like right before the cat converters? so you can place the filter perhaps into a fender well?
As for the air filter I personally would build a sealed box around it from either aluminum sheet metal or lexan/plexi with holes drilled at the rear of it. Still worried about water one could make their own baffle on a box. Make the box leave opening for the air, then put another peice of plexi or whatever over the openings mounted on say 1" pillers. This will help sheild the direct path of water or whatever and still allow enough airflow.

I would still wrap the filter with a filter wrap (I want to do this with my CAI anyhow) and if your still worried you can always get one of those super duper AEM water bypass valves. But IMO they are only effective if the filter is submerged in water.

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
As for the air filter I personally would build a sealed box around it from either aluminum sheet metal or lexan/plexi with holes drilled at the rear of it. Still worried about water one could make their own baffle on a box. Make the box leave opening for the air, then put another peice of plexi or whatever over the openings mounted on say 1" pillers. This will help sheild the direct path of water or whatever and still allow enough airflow.

I would still wrap the filter with a filter wrap (I want to do this with my CAI anyhow) and if your still worried you can always get one of those super duper AEM water bypass valves. But IMO they are only effective if the filter is submerged in water.

maybe cut a hole in your trunk, and put the filter in box and seal it to the trunk floor?

[GaSC/Tnfs]

maybe cut a hole in your trunk, and put the filter in box and seal it to the trunk floor?


now that's an Idea!:lol: then you could just sylicone the whole thing in... temp of air in your car = temp of air going into the turbo.

[DontPassTheFence]

I like that, except the part about cutting a hole in my trunk! but for forced induction cheaply, I think Iwould do it.

[iceman]

No place for the return intake tubing to fit on the GA without it being the lowest spot on the car and getting ruined very quickly... good idea tho

[litdevil316]

i'm sure ya could run the piping forward with out to much problem. but it'd be awfully close to the xhaust pipe as its running front. and i jus upset that some one was able to but out the trunk idea before i was able to. i thought about that yesterday but wasnt able to get back online to post it. it should be very easy to make up a custom air box for it in the trunk. trip people out with a 'trunk-scoop'. lol. could even work it up to keep water out. they do it with the H-VAC air intake.

ps... can any one tell me why i dont get email notes about replys to posts? i click on subscribe after i post to a thread. thanks

[cosmocanyon]

I could see building one of these myself, but the pice of their kit is pretty high. For that price, why not get the RSM supercharger kit? At least RSM can reprogram the ECM.

Just my two cents. Like I said, I can see doing it yourself for around a grand... but four grand for this seems silly.

- Evan

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by iceman
No place for the return intake tubing to fit on the GA without it being the lowest spot on the car and getting ruined very quickly... good idea tho
Being the owner of 6 Fbodies I can vouch that there is less ground clearance on them then a NBody. Ground clearance would be reduced but unless you car is literatlly slamed I don't think it'll cause any major problems.

[GaSC/Tnfs]

well ok... lets say that our cars are "too low" to put it under the car. so let's think outside the box then... what about running the return intake tube through the car too? would it get to hot? or maybe there is a way to cool it as it runs through as well? just an idea

[litdevil316]

Originally posted by GaSC/Tnfs
well ok... lets say that our cars are "too low" to put it under the car. so let's think outside the box then... what about running the return intake tube through the car too? would it get to hot? or maybe there is a way to cool it as it runs through as well? just an idea


that is an idea. if ya dont mind the piping in the car. but i'm sure it can be done to look good. like a custom center console or something.

"hey man, whats that pipe there for?"
"oh, thats my new intake.TCAI. trunk coldair intake" lol

[litdevil316]

one other thing.... for that price, it is a full kit, jus like the RSM kit that costs up to a grand more(us$). as said above, we could probly make the kit with a normal turbo for way less. i say it worth a try.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by GaSC/Tnfs
well ok... lets say that our cars are "too low" to put it under the car. so let's think outside the box then... what about running the return intake tube through the car too? would it get to hot? or maybe there is a way to cool it as it runs through as well? just an idea
On a daily driver I would not running it though the interior.

Although there are many full tilt drag cars that have the intercooler (typically a ai/liquid) inside the cockpit.

[iceman]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
Being the owner of 6 Fbodies I can vouch that there is less ground clearance on them then a NBody. Ground clearance would be reduced but unless you car is literatlly slamed I don't think it'll cause any major problems.

I've had enough wrench time under fbods too... I looked at the install pics, they go under the suspension arms?? one road hazard or driving slipup and turbo setup is gone. There's no space to bring the intake return where it needs to be on a 3.4LV6 without it being very risky. Definitely no space near the downpipe for sure. When my car was lowered I couldn't even get a jack under it, imagine how low 2.5" of intake tubing past the frame would be...

running through the interior... I doubt that can happen.

yeah it's a cool idea, I don't think it's too viable on our platform. I know these cars inside out, if I had something positive to say I would :)

[TA^Guy]

I would presonally run it right along side the exhaust and back up that way to the TB.

The turbo setup it's self wouldn't be a problem at all because it would sit up where the factory muffler would be.

Im sure if they can find a way to run it to the front on a Civic, etc it can be done with other vehicles.

[Azrael]

Maybe if you use an oval shaped intake pipe rather than perfectly round. Something along the lines of 4-4.5" wide and around 2" tall. I know it'd be difficult to bend properly but it'd give an extra inch for clearance. Then you'd just need an adapter for the pipe up to the TB.

[iceman]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
I would presonally run it right along side the exhaust and back up that way to the TB.


It's not going to happen with a GA unless we are talking 1" piping here.. Seriously, I've spent a lot of time down near the firewall and downpipe, there is barely space for hands there.

[TA^Guy]

Oh I know, we had a blast trying to cut Robs cat out to weld in that pipe. lol

[GaSC/Tnfs]

ok... so maybe through the car is a little extreme.


I've been thinking this through all day (high school:roll2: ) and I'll see if I can break this down and then you guys can tear it apart.

well lets say that we've already put a turbo right before the muffler. and now the only problem is air filter placement and where to run the return intake. the air filter is the simple part... just run it into the rear fender and create a sort of "water blocker/air catcher" (aluminum plate underneath the air filter)

then there's running the return intake. we all know that our fuel lines run on the driver side of the vehicle so that's probably not an option. however if we run a tube on the passenger side of the vehicle it might be possible. unfortunatly this puts our intake tube on the wrong side of our intake manifold. but if we could run the tube around the front bumper (rather discretely) and up into the fender it would look good. you could almost pass it off as a "cold air intake" hee hee!

ok everybody tell me what I"m missing:lol:

[DontPassTheFence]

that is so much tubing, I wonder...? i dont have ANY ideas on how to run the return pipe, how do they run it on the f-bods?

[TA^Guy]

On the Fbody from the photos it appears it runs down along the drivers side behind the subframe assembly and pinchwelds.

My thing is, everyone lowers their car about 2"s correct? So what is the big deal with giving up 2" of clearance between the wheels. Where do lowered vehciles scrape the most? In the front, so if a vehicle lower 2"s typically scraps the front and doesn't often scrap in the center what would the ground clearance difference be if you used a 2" pipe on a car with stock ride height? The occasional steep speed bump? Then don't use cheep clamps, weld that suck front to back and bolt/clamp it near the MAF and near the turbo and make some nice strong mounting brackets.

I'm sorry but I just don't accept the answer 'can't be done' kind of makes me want to do it more... problem is, the GA in the driveway isn't mine.

[DontPassTheFence]

aw, that sucks! im too unskilled to just fab one up for myself! plus the laziness, and lack of parts... and my car isnt even lowered yet. Damn damn damn damn damn! forced induction lies ahead for the GA, I swear!

[litdevil316]

lol. there is forced induction, we all just want it to be cheaper the 4grand for a kit. hell, i wish i had my car to go look at while thinking this over. sad thing about being over here, cant play with my car. but atleast i can say that it is in the shop now for the rebuild atlast. .020 over new head, cams, rods and pistons plus p/p on the head.

[Dave C]

Originally posted by DontPassTheFenc
nothing pulls, everything pushes. Physics my friend. But still, the pressurization wont be a problem to ODBII, and if it is by some odd chance, then you can always run with no cat. (like most ricers do)


Sorry, had to say something about this...

Rotational Inertia. If the turbo is running faster than the exhaust, then it would pull (ie sharp drop in exhaust "speed"). Of course, less exhaust would mean you're not on the gas.. so it really doesn't help to draw exhaust out of the cylinders when you need it.

[Dave C]

of course this is a really cool idea and I've enjoyed reading the thread... :D

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by Dave C
Sorry, had to say something about this...

Rotational Inertia. If the turbo is running faster than the exhaust, then it would pull (ie sharp drop in exhaust "speed"). Of course, less exhaust would mean you're not on the gas.. so it really doesn't help to draw exhaust out of the cylinders when you need it.
Yes but how would the turbo be spooling faster than the exhaust flow since the exhaust is what spins it?

The only time it would be is immediately off the throttle after being at high rpms. And even then it would only be for a moment because the air press on the other side would be resistance on the compressor impeller.

Either way I do see what your saying just thought I'd mention that it would be brief if at all.

[Dave C]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
And even then it would only be for a moment because the air press on the other side would be resistance on the compressor impeller.

ahh yes... i forgot about the other side :) I guess that's what 4 hrs of sleep does to you.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by Dave C
ahh yes... i forgot about the other side :) I guess that's what 4 hrs of sleep does to you.
I hear that. I usually get 3-5 hours a night. Maybe thats why I seem to be a grumpy jerk around here all the time. :D

[litdevil316]

i wouldnt say all the time there TA^Guy. lol

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by litdevil316
i wouldnt say all the time there TA^Guy. lol
Why you lit.... devil! DOAH!

[litdevil316]

lol