supercharger or turbo?

[lordgummi]

Hey guys, newbie asking a question prolly asked a hundred times. I did search for it but couldn't find anything. Anywho, its tax return time and I wanna blow it all on the car. I have a 2.4l Twin in my car. Now I was wondering, should I supercharge it or try to fit a turbo in there somewhere. I know supercharging will give me an increase at almost all rpm ranges and that a turbo will give me a boost in the higher rpms. Since my engine has pretty good low end pop to begin with, which one should i go for?

[3 DeeJay]

super..

[Themeneea]

turbo, they sound better

[way2crazy05]

supercharger if your lookin to take it to the track turbos if you want a cool sound and some boost to go with it. beware the lag!!!!

[Fishman]

supercharger

[92CamaroRS]

Turbo by far. Here are soem reasons:

1. No parasitic draw on the crank.
2. Turbo lag is nonexsistant if the turbo set up is designed right, and can actually aid in launching the car.
3. turbos are cheaper, you can pick up a T3 in the junk yard and rebuild it for uner $200

[Themeneea]

Originally posted by 92CamaroRS
Turbo by far. Here are soem reasons:

1. No parasitic draw on the crank.
2. Turbo lag is nonexsistant if the turbo set up is designed right, and can actually aid in launching the car.
3. turbos are cheaper, you can pick up a T3 in the junk yard and rebuild it for uner $200

isnt the only way to get rid of lag is to use a small turbo

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by Themeneea
isnt the only way to get rid of lag is to use a small turbo


not the only way, but it is an easy way, hence why it requires good engineering, if the turbo is matched to the motor, you can make it so you have pretty much no lag.

[matts]

he's right. i like superchargers, but turbo's really do have them beat across the board for the most part. and supercharger's make good sounds too. just not as loud and noticeable as a turbo....unless you're in the cabin of the vehicle with a supercharger

[urweak]

Heres what you have to consider, you can buy the GM superchager for the 2.4 for around 2300-2800, that will give you 190hp on the stock pulley, then you can pump it up more with different pulleys, everything you need is all in the package (granted you cant run over 10psi since you would still have a stock bottom end) downside to this is you cant intercool this setup since it bolts right to the head.

Or go with the RSM super charger, but its around 3000-4000 but you can intercool this, but upgrading the boost isnt as easy as upping it on the GM charger (you can get a different pulley for the GM charger for under 100 bucks) but the RSM pulley is alot more then 100 bucks or two.

Or you could turbo it, put together your own for maybe 2000 maybe alittle more or alittle less, or you could buy a kit for a cavi and addapt it to your car for around 3000. You can run all kinds of different turbo set ups ones that will spool fast slow and all inbetween. you can intercool the setup. downside its not under warranty like the GM charger is (gm charger has like a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty)

So basicly you need to figure out what kind of money you want to put into this, and if you want a turbo or a supercharger then im sure i cant help you more after that.

[Matt95GT]

Judging by the question itself, it sounds like ease of install is key here. GM supercharger, hands down. Direct bolt on, it doesn't get much easier.

Originally posted by urweak
you can buy the GM superchager for the 2.4 for around 2300-2800

$2219.20 shipped ;)

[grandam01]

hmmmm, i too am a fan of supercharging, but it does have a wonderful draw on the crank, if only ati prochargers were available for our cars then we would be talking about that, since they don't i would say turbo, you can adjust the amount of boost, the amount of blow-off, its just nicer sounding. IMO

[02eco]

I agree with urweak, he pretty much sums it up.

Personally, I'd go with the GM SC if I had a 2.4TC. Good value, reliability and performance. Basically bolt-on and forget about it, which is what I like. The Jbody community gives it rave reviews.

Since I don't have a 2.4 I ordered the RSM Ecotec SC kit last week, I can't wait.:D

[Themeneea]

SC's last forever

[3 DeeJay]

Originally posted by Themeneea
SC's last forever

if you car's engine can last forever with it... :)

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by Themeneea
SC's last forever


they last just as long as a turbo with the same kind of maintence.

[Themeneea]

Originally posted by 92CamaroRS
they last just as long as a turbo with the same kind of maintence.
how do you maintain a turbo? The SC has its own oil, but dont all turbos run of engine oil?

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by Themeneea
how do you maintain a turbo? The SC has its own oil, but dont all turbos run of engine oil?

yup. actually id put the reliabilty on the Turbo over the Super for the simple fact, look at semi's what do they use? Turbo's, and semi's have to last for 800k-1million miles.

[BiH]

sometimes more than that. my dads rig is over million miles now. Did blew the turbo at 750K miles tho' Huge friggin turbo, and the intercooler is bigger than a hood on my car!

I do have biased opinion since I own one car with turbo and will turbo the other one! So I will say turbo, they both got its drawbacks and advantages and to me the best setup would be all motor. Offcourse going all motor get really expensive and time consuming!

[History101]

Originally posted by lordgummi
Hey guys, newbie asking a question prolly asked a hundred times. I did search for it but couldn't find anything. Anywho, its tax return time and I wanna blow it all on the car. I have a 2.4l Twin in my car. Now I was wondering, should I supercharge it or try to fit a turbo in there somewhere. I know supercharging will give me an increase at almost all rpm ranges and that a turbo will give me a boost in the higher rpms. Since my engine has pretty good low end pop to begin with, which one should i go for?


BLAHHHH don't waste your money on moding your engine on your ga

HOW much are u getting back from tax's?

MY boy has a 280hp corrado g60 for sale will out perform many cars

[Themeneea]

Originally posted by History101
BLAHHHH don't waste your money on moding your engine on your ga

HOW much are u getting back from tax's?

MY boy has a 280hp corrado g60 for sale will out perform many cars

whats he asking

[lordgummi]

so it looks like you guys are leaning toward a turbo, but the sc is getting good posts too.
now for the turbo, will i have to change my intake manifold?
seems to me that sc is cheaper to begin with and cheaper to squeeze out more horses

[Matt95GT]

Wow... guess everyone is gung-ho turbo here. Both have advantages/disadvantages... as applied to the 2.4 specifically.

GM Supercharger:
Pros:
-ease of install (direct fit, front of engine, less parts)
-no turbo lag, instant boost
Cons:
-limited boost level (5-6 PSI, or 8-9 max with smaller pulley)
-pulley swap needed to change boost levels

Turbo:
Pros:
-future potential for more boost
-can create higher boost levels easily with adjustments
Cons:
-turbo lag
-there is no turbo "kit" guaranteed to fit your car. Some kits are made for cav's/sunfires but even some of these require grinding down exhaust manifold for fitment, etc.
-more complicated system to install (charge piping, new downpipe required, harder to work on rear of engine)

Both will require similar fuel mods... which I did not cover at all here.

Being that you have an automatic, and the stock 2.4 internals will only hold up to so much boost... the GM supercharger is the better choice here. Unless you plan a major engine/tranny buildup, you understand how all parts of a turbo system work together, and don't mind downtime and some fabrication work, I would stick to a S/C.


Reliability... both should outlast your car at this point. However, by nature turbo's are higher maintenance than a SC. A turbo has to handle high amounts of heat and all the cycles of heating and cooling (metal expands/contracts) Need to keep the bearings in good shape, not fry the oil out of it em. (Turbo timer is the solution here) For that reason, SC is suited better on a "daily driver."

No, you won't have to change the intake manifold to use the turbo, but there are better choices than the stock plastic one. (2.3 HO manifold, etc)

Plan to do a lot of searching and reading before you make a decision. There's some good (and bad) info in the boost forum at j-body.org.

[92CamaroRS]

Thing is tho, if anyone that built the turbo system knows anything what so ever, lag is non exsistant. i agree with every thing you said matt except the turbo lag.

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by History101
BLAHHHH don't waste your money on moding your engine on your ga

HOW much are u getting back from tax's?

MY boy has a 280hp corrado g60 for sale will out perform many cars

What was the point of that? Got something informitive to post about the topic? post it, got some stupid poo like this that your just gonna bable off? take it else where, or keep it to yourself.

[lordgummi]

well i looked up all the specs and what i can do for the sc, with other mods i can get a consistant 200+ (do the secret cam swap just for starters, change pulley, replace exhaust piping, planing 2.25 all around, still nothing major). i was just wondering what is the HP gain for the turbo, the is no consistant number that pops up, all i've found were boost level numbers and how easy they are to change.

[lordgummi]

check these pages and let me know what u guys think about them
http://www.exploitedracing.com/turbomanifoldschevy.html
http://www.exploitedracing.com/ChevroletDIYkits.html

[buckeyejack]

Hey Cory, What car is a T3 on? And will it fit on a 3400? And why not a separate oil tank/cooler and pump.for the turbo? Not practical I know,but just a thought.:idea:

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by lordgummi
check these pages and let me know what u guys think about them
http://www.exploitedracing.com/turbomanifoldschevy.html
http://www.exploitedracing.com/ChevroletDIYkits.html

The J-body guys report having to cut/grind things cause often they don't fit. You might want to make sure it will fit your car... becuase of the steering rack location on my cars, it will not fit. Remember, those kits are meant for J-body's. Otherwise, if you don't might some DIY work, it would be a nice setup to see on a GA.

Also, don't forget that the kit does not include any fuel mods whatsoever... which is equally important as the turbo itself. (install just that, engine goes boom on first run)

[2K SE]

(install just that, engine goes boom on first run)

Please tell us more. Never been asperated but want to some day and boom is not something I want to hear.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by 2K SE
(install just that, engine goes boom on first run)

Please tell us more. Never been asperated but want to some day and boom is not something I want to hear.

For combustion the engine needs air and fuel in the right mixture. The idea behind boost is being able to stuff in more air and fuel. Let's say that turbo kit was installed by itself on an otherwise stock engine. You are stuffing in alot more air. The MAP sensor does not read boost, nor does the fuel table in the stock ECU know what to do if it read boost... so the same amount of fuel is dumped in that it would inject on a N/A engine. So with all the extra air and the same amount of fuel, you are running massively lean. Lean = detonation, very high combustion temps, broken & melted metal.

There's several ways to increase the amount of fuel being injected... ECU reprogram + 2 bar MAP sensor, increase fuel pressure (via FPR/FMU), bigger injectors, ECU piggyback computer (like Apexi S-AFC, etc) ... usually combinations of the above list.

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by buckeyejack
Hey Cory, What car is a T3 on? And will it fit on a 3400? And why not a separate oil tank/cooler and pump.for the turbo? Not practical I know,but just a thought.:idea:


Alot of the Turbo Saab's had T3's i believe, also i think the turbo cougar's used aT3 also.

[urweak]

Originally posted by lordgummi
check these pages and let me know what u guys think about them
http://www.exploitedracing.com/turbomanifoldschevy.html
http://www.exploitedracing.com/ChevroletDIYkits.html

STAY FAR AWAY FROM HIM!!!! I ordered a simple manifold flange off him about 3-4 months ago and havent got it yet, keeps giving me the run around he basicly stole 77 dollars off me.

[ponsctiac]

If I were you, I'd go with the sc. Turbos dont last as long and are a lot more work to keep in tip top shape. Sc's last longer because all you have to do is basically clean it out every once in a while.

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by ponsctiac
If I were you, I'd go with the sc. Turbos dont last as long and are a lot more work to keep in tip top shape. Sc's last longer because all you have to do is basically clean it out every once in a while.


then explain to me why Semi's(Which MUST go 500k-900k miles reliably) use turbos? because they are reliable and last longer than SC, both tho will out last your engine for the most part.

[Matt95GT]

Semi's also have huge turbo's, large coolers for all fluids, and are run on almost all long highway trips. Not to mention, diesel burns differently. They are not subject to the heating (expanding/contracting) cycles that daily drivers get.

[thegeswho3]

it depends on how seriouse you are. to set a turbo up right it will cost a bundle.
A super on the other hand can be slapped on but takes up some of the crank power, but then again turbos create back pressure a ruin an engine that wasnt designed for them.
Go Super Charged if your not lookin to race a 10 second 1/4 mile, just more fun to drive

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by thegeswho3
it depends on how seriouse you are. to set a turbo up right it will cost a bundle.
A super on the other hand can be slapped on but takes up some of the crank power, but then again turbos create back pressure a ruin an engine that wasnt designed for them.
Go Super Charged if your not lookin to race a 10 second 1/4 mile, just more fun to drive
Wow

If you know what your doing a turbocharger can be as affordable or cheeper than a supercharger. Turbochargers can be found in salvage yards cheep and easily rebuilt. Check out ebay there are pleanty of T3s to be found for about $100 in good condition.

The reason why most turbocharger 'kits' or 'systems' are expensive is because there are more often componates included like a 'BOV', manifolds, but I assure you you can build a turbocharged system without new manifolds or the uses of a 'BOV'.

Second the 'backpressure' it creats helps the motor extract exhaust fumes from the cylinder.

And since both a supercharger and turbocharger both creat positive manifold pressure how does one "ruin an engine that wasn't designed for them" and the other doesn't?

Might want to check out how many production vehicles have been built with factory superchargers and how many with factory turbochargers.

[gold dragon]

with a turbo aren't you going to want to build the engine up first cams, intake manifold, port and polish, crank, fuel lines, injecters, maybe a new fuel rail. exhaust, maybe a oil cooler what did i miss. if you don't do these things especially with a t3 torbo your going to tear up your engine unless you plan to keep t boost under 10. and on supers it would be a good idea too like on the RSM kits, on the gm kit i don't think you get enough boost to have to do all that though, am i right this is just what i get out of everything i've seen and heard

[zero53121]

gonna need alky inj for anything over 6lbs on the gm charger as it gets to hot and wont create any more boost even with smaller pulleys. also good because gm did not make it so you can intercool it

[zero53121]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
Wow

If you know what your doing a turbocharger can be as affordable or cheeper than a supercharger. Turbochargers can be found in salvage yards cheep and easily rebuilt. Check out ebay there are pleanty of T3s to be found for about $100 in good condition.

The reason why most turbocharger 'kits' or 'systems' are expensive is because there are more often componates included like a 'BOV', manifolds, but I assure you you can build a turbocharged system without new manifolds or the uses of a 'BOV'.

Second the 'backpressure' it creats helps the motor extract exhaust fumes from the cylinder.

And since both a supercharger and turbocharger both creat positive manifold pressure how does one "ruin an engine that wasn't designed for them" and the other doesn't?

Might want to check out how many production vehicles have been built with factory superchargers and how many with factory turbochargers.


gonna need that blow off valve for a turbo or bypass valve for the supercharger. im guessin you know that i just thought id bring it up

[zero53121]

Originally posted by urweak
STAY FAR AWAY FROM HIM!!!! I ordered a simple manifold flange off him about 3-4 months ago and havent got it yet, keeps giving me the run around he basicly stole 77 dollars off me.

man i hate to hear that because i live like a mile away from his shop wish there was somethin more i could do for ya