Headers for Pre-99 GAs

[Azrael]

I'm still in. Has anyone else tried to get ahold of the original donor? It's hard to believe he'd just drop off the face of the planet like that.

[Korbendallas68]

May be David (the guy who volunteered) thought that the project wouldn't go through? :\

[ace_ga]

im still in cuz i really want these. lets see if we can get in touch with Dave. his screen name on the forums is 95-GT i think.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
I didn't have paypal pull funds from your account, I just requested a refund, it's the easiest way to do it.

i just don't like losing money on a refund. if everyone did what you did, i'd lose over $100 b/c of the original paypal fees.

[FlatlineGA]

when you refund the money, it takes the paypal fees into account, i've refunded people money on paypal before and you don't lose any money

[SPECIALGAGT]

Hoooo-raw fer the web-site he's developing ! Lemme at it. We need a spot to exchange info 2-way, and 3-way, and more. I donwanna lose $500 bucks in an easy fashion either. If he is a good header manuf., then can he start with a larger dia. pipe so as to match the area of the exhaust port, and then squash it a little (very techie terminology) to pass through the restricted areas, then emerge as a 2+-incher into the collector? From there our options could be 1-pipe and cat. out the back, or split like stock. I have a rather fresh 3100, but wanna build up a rad 3400 block reamed and sleeved and stroked to 3900 displ. Not much demand for enlarged 3100s, but maybe we can find enough 3400 drivers to make the project worth-while. What grinds is he developing for the 3400? I have heard a lot of talk on such cams but none for sale. Will the 3400 cam work in the 3100 at all? What else needs to be changed?

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by SPECIALGAGT
Hoooo-raw fer the web-site he's developing ! Lemme at it. We need a spot to exchange info 2-way, and 3-way, and more. I donwanna lose $500 bucks in an easy fashion either. If he is a good header manuf., then can he start with a larger dia. pipe so as to match the area of the exhaust port, and then squash it a little (very techie terminology) to pass through the restricted areas, then emerge as a 2+-incher into the collector? From there our options could be 1-pipe and cat. out the back, or split like stock. I have a rather fresh 3100, but wanna build up a rad 3400 block reamed and sleeved and stroked to 3900 displ. Not much demand for enlarged 3100s, but maybe we can find enough 3400 drivers to make the project worth-while. What grinds is he developing for the 3400? I have heard a lot of talk on such cams but none for sale. Will the 3400 cam work in the 3100 at all? What else needs to be changed?

i think 2" primaries would be too big for the 3100/3400 myself. these engines have some torque, and i'd like to keep it. install would be even more of a nightmare. if 2" is what everyone wants, then we can make it, but you all have to agree.

we have some pretty radical parts for the 3100 and 3400. a customer brought us a car, and wanted a stage 2 cam, swore up and down that the guy who did his heads said they could take the .559 lift of our stage 2 cam, nope he could run about a .430 lift cam safely, which is what stock is. so we outfitted his heads with the valvetrain we use on our heads, and now his heads are clearanced for .610 and ready for our cam. even our stage 1 would have broken all 12 valvesprings in his car. don't take this the wrong way, our stage 1 cam was designed for stock heads, including the stock springs, it's when people add things like LS1 springs that the coil bind becomes a problem.

the 3100's cam and 3400's cam are the same. only difference would be that a 94-99 3100/3400 would need to run a 00-02 cam sensor and our wiring adapter to make the pcm understand the different cam sensor reluctor on the cam. cost for both of these from us would be around $65. other than that, all you need is GM gaskets and bolts. the stage 2 cam requires headwork to provide clearance for the cam. you can find info of our stage 1 and 2 cams and heads on our site.

[SPECIALGAGT]

Hey, Z34, that is great info. Talk like that inspires and motivates bench-racers like me. Here's my next question: I send you the $ $ $, include my desires, you do it as much as possible, and ship it. Can we operate like this? I would also like my trans. to handle the zoomies; can you do this, too ?? I am only interested in N/A 60* engines at this point. Turbo later. How close are you to Lima, OH? Thanks.

[SPECIALGAGT]

P.S. I'll come to you ; how much for an install of your decision of the best cam on a stock 3100, just to start warming up things 'round here? Or is the kit complete enough for D I Y ?

[ace_ga]

Originally posted by SPECIALGAGT
P.S. I'll come to you ; how much for an install of your decision of the best cam on a stock 3100, just to start warming up things 'round here? Or is the kit complete enough for D I Y ?

Hey SpecialGAGT, do you think you could let Milzy fabricate the headers off your car? Maybe he could give you a discount or something.

[dmbprep69]

Hey I am still in I just got my cat back all installed so these headers are my next move. I would really like to get them soon too so I can get some more work done! Come on people lets get a donor here!!
Peace,
Andrew

[ace_ga]

hey Milzy, is there a GA in your area that you can borrow to make the headers? i need these sooo bad.:P

[Peyman]

for the record...once these get made...im definitley interested in buying :D

[voyager]

this is pretty sad, and it's why i didn't want to pay up front.

if these ever get made, and are made with a decent design, i'd be happy to get a set too. with all the people who would get them once they were out there, you'd think it might be wise to buy some POS GA for test fitting - it doesn't even have to run, it only needs an intact front end & engine, you know? if you could get a salvage car for $300, and get the ball rolling, the profits from producing the product would take care of the expense in no time. i think the $$ you guys have sent is more than sufficient for materials as it is.

[gran_dam98]

im ready to pull out of this, sorry guys but this obviously isn't getting under way

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by SPECIALGAGT
Hey, Z34, that is great info. Talk like that inspires and motivates bench-racers like me. Here's my next question: I send you the $ $ $, include my desires, you do it as much as possible, and ship it. Can we operate like this? I would also like my trans. to handle the zoomies; can you do this, too ?? I am only interested in N/A 60* engines at this point. Turbo later. How close are you to Lima, OH? Thanks.

yeah we can do that. we're working on the trans mods at this point, but we've got the engine stuff covered.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by SPECIALGAGT
P.S. I'll come to you ; how much for an install of your decision of the best cam on a stock 3100, just to start warming up things 'round here? Or is the kit complete enough for D I Y ?

right now the install price for just a cam is 400, cam and heads is 500. this is in addition to the price of gaskets, parts, and fluids needed for the install.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by ace_ga
Hey SpecialGAGT, do you think you could let Milzy fabricate the headers off your car? Maybe he could give you a discount or something.

let me know if you want to do this thing Special, i want to get this thing rolling.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by gran_dam98
im ready to pull out of this, sorry guys but this obviously isn't getting under way

send me an e-mail to milzymotorsports@hotmail.com if you decide you officially want out.

[gran_dam98]

Well sorry guys, but it looks like I'm out of this one as well. I'm trying to purchase a GP GXP before the GM employee price stuff ends so, sorry again, but I hope it all goes through for you guys

[dmbprep69]

This really needs to go though guys, I need these headers real bad. Cant u just get a 3100 from a junkyard and use that for a while and then sell it back? I dunno but we need to find a way to do this shit.
Peace,
Andrew

[Korbendallas68]

Hmm. Well we can all chip in and get a front end clip? They're pretty cheap, and it doesn't even fenders or that crap. just the firewall, and the full frame support for the engine.

[96GreenGaGT]

but he would need the engine to do the fitment cuz it has to be able to fit from the head to the catback.

[MilzyZ34]

Gran_dam98 has just been refunded

[MilzyZ34]

Ace refunded for his payment of 1/2.

[Azrael]

Wow...I must be the only one left. :P

Fortunately I'm not hurting for money and I'd probably lose a good chunk from the exchange rate if I did back out.

[Peyman]

so Milzy...do you still have plans of making these?

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by Peyman
so Milzy...do you still have plans of making these?

i'm still in if you guys are

[dmbprep69]

I really want these my back account is hurtin tho so it would be great to get them started real soon. Thanx for stickin in there.
Peace,
Andrew

[bobgagt]

I dont even have a 3100 and I want to see these get made.... come on guys if theres one performance mod that would be huge for the 3100 / 3400 it would be headers...

[Juicesnn4e]

hey this thread is WAY to long for me to read, but im interested. i just dont know what the hell you guys are talking about, so can someone FILL me in in 1 message about whats geting made for the 3100, and how much money u need, and how many more people need to chip in? thanks! the more info, the more ill consider

[The Artist]

u cant use a header w/ a turbo so there is no point in u participating in this event (which will never happen unfortunately)

[Azrael]

Originally posted by Juicesnn4e
hey this thread is WAY to long for me to read, but im interested. i just dont know what the hell you guys are talking about, so can someone FILL me in in 1 message about whats geting made for the 3100, and how much money u need, and how many more people need to chip in? thanks! the more info, the more ill consider

1. A full set of headers for 94-98 v6 grand ams.
2. $450 for uncoated or $600 with a ceramic coating.
3. The equivalent of 5 people fronting the full amount or 10 with half-payments. As far as I know I'm the only one with a full payment left in the project.
4. Headers are only useful for N/A or supercharged applications. A turbo would only work if it's mounted somewhere between the downpipe and the exhaust tips.

And for sweet98gagt: I wouldn't say never. Initially there was enough people participating but the donor car was a no-show.

[Juicesnn4e]

im running a rear turbo. so this means i could use new headers? would this help my engine alot?

[Azrael]

If you mean rear as in the turbocharger is mounted where the muffler usually is then yes it could work for you.

Gains would be rough estimates only untill they're actually made. Conservatively, 15-20 peak HP at the crank for stock/mild N/A setups and 20-?? for boosted or moderately/highly modified engines depending on the extent of modifications and/or level of peak boost.

[Juicesnn4e]

yes i am running a rear turbo mount. now everyone says u gotta rebuild your engine ect ect if ur gonna run the turbo. is the headers one of the things i should consider? is there any other parts this guy makes that i should be considering?

[The Artist]

are u retarded? why would u run a turbo that sits way back by ure muffler? not only is that lame, the power would be severly less (cause more piping is bad) and most importantly, ure making it totally accessable for any ass chode to steal it

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by sweet98gagt
are u retarded? why would u run a turbo that sits way back by ure muffler? not only is that lame, the power would be severly less (cause more piping is bad) and most importantly, ure making it totally accessable for any ass chode to steal it

i wqas skeptical at first too, but it actually works quite well, and i've seen it in person when Intense did one on a GPGT, when they took it for the first dyno-tune.

[Azrael]

Originally posted by Juicesnn4e
yes i am running a rear turbo mount. now everyone says u gotta rebuild your engine ect ect if ur gonna run the turbo. is the headers one of the things i should consider? is there any other parts this guy makes that i should be considering? The 3100 can take small amounts of boost stock. When they say rebuild the engine for serious boost (10+ psi) they're talking about forged/lightened internals and lower compression pistons among other odds and ends to make an engine more durable. Headers don't do this. They exist simply to remove the restriction the stock exhaust manifolds create. Do lots of research. Boost in any form isn't a project to take lightly.

Originally posted by sweet98gagt
why would u run a turbo that sits way back by ure muffler? not only is that lame, the power would be severly less (cause more piping is bad) and most importantly, ure making it totally accessable for any ass chode to steal it
1. Many reasons: easier installation, lower under-hood temps, more space to work with, lower oil temps, lower turbo temps, etc. See www.ststurbo.com for a full list.
2. Power isn't lessened with proper tuning. The turbo is getting spun by exhaust from all cylinders in the case of a v6 instead of just 3 like a typical underhood setup.
3. Unless you leave your car sitting undefended for hours on end I'd like to see anyone try and steal a turbo that's been running without getting burnt.

[Juicesnn4e]

hmm gus, arnt u helping with the install too? i though u knew what me and dustin had in store

[The Artist]

you guys never said anything about a rear mount turbo... either way, that some serious work, and to be honest i dont think i want to help on the off chance that something happens/breaks/doesnt work i'd feel bad.... but i will come down and hang out if u either dont bring ure girl or tell her that she's gonna be there for a LONG time w/ NOTHING to do and not to wine about it... LOL

[Juicesnn4e]

yah how ****ing annoying was she? she knew we had a long day. damm shes normally cool when shes not being bitchy (arnt they all though?)

[casteitaliano]

I soooooo want headers for my 3100 v6, but how will i get em cuz like idk i want to know who do i talk to, to get these mothers on my car

[PontiacGT]

^anyhow i also have a header question: what's so great about ceramic coated?? all i can think of is protection from heat, kind of like an insulator, but why the fugg would you need to keep your exhaust cool?

I say, tell me a good reason to buy ceramic over regular.

[urweak]

Originally posted by PontiacGT
^anyhow i also have a header question: what's so great about ceramic coated?? all i can think of is protection from heat, kind of like an insulator, but why the fugg would you need to keep your exhaust cool?

I say, tell me a good reason to buy ceramic over regular.

Well one C.C. will keep the header from rusting.

But the main idea behind it is the "Scavenging effect" in which the coating keeps the hot exhaust gas in the pipes, making it travel faster and exiting the system faster. (thats a really really basic idea)

http://www.swaintech.com/header.html

[voyager]

somebody let me know if this EVER happens.

[Azrael]

It probably won't. I'm considering pulling my money out of the deal since the plans for my car are changing and won't need headers.

[FlatlineGA]

lol you still got money in it, i thought this was done a long time ago

[MilzyZ34]

not sure if this matters, but a GA owner offered to give up his car to us for the winter to build the headers on, and someone else e-mailed me about being interested in the headers.

Azrael, I thought everyone had been refunded. how much money did you put down?

well, if you guys want this to happen, it still can. let me know what you think.

[FlatlineGA]

I'm always down, I'll do like before, if you get almost all the $ you need, I will drop a full payment to finish it off.

[Azrael]

Originally posted by MilzyZ34
...Azrael, I thought everyone had been refunded. how much money did you put down?... I had sent the full $600 through paypal for the coated option. None of my records show a refund but I don't recall asking for one.

I hate to hinder the efforts of the community but I'll have to ask for the refund now. I'll probably spend a good portion of it on a set of your chromoly pushrods plus a heads install kit though. :thumbup2:

[voyager]

i will buy headers once they are made provided they'll fit my L-body. i'm not going to put money up until you've at least gotten some test fitted on a car.. but like i said before, let me know if anything is ever actually produced.

[ace_ga]

Milzy, the only way i see this ever happening now is if you get at least 5 pre-orders for half the price of the headers and you front the other half to get them made. then the other half of the pre-orders is paid when you are ready to ship. I am still in for half if FlatlineGA and Azrael are still in. What do you think?

[MilzyZ34]

Azrael, I will issue you a refund for the $ you put down asap. send me an e-mail to milzymotorsports@hotmail.com, and we'll discuss the details.

as for this project ... like i said, i am still willing to go through with it, but there will be some changes from the last time.

-I will not request for money to be sent until everyone is ready. Once this money is sent, i will immediately buy the parts to make 5 sets of headers. for this reason, there will be no refunds on this order. Substitutions will be permitted with our approval.

-The new retail price of the headers, and of the coating has gone up since last time. We just made a set of headers for a 96-97 3.4 dohc, so we've had to raise the price based on the cost to make these headers, and any other headers we make. We're still dialing in the price, but the headers will now retail for 550-600 non-coated, and coating will be $250 atleast. That being said, if we have 5 or more fully-paid pre-orders, these people will receive the price of $500 non-coated, with an optional $250 coating charge. Those who want to only pay 1/2 up front will pay full retail price.

-Starting production on a set of headers like these costs thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours. i cannot justify spending this much out of pocket to develope parts that would only fit pre-gen GA's. Having the 5 orders up front makes it less painful for me financially, and also justifies the time i'll spend on the project by proving that there are enthusiasts with these cars who are interested in these parts and perhaps other performance parts made specially for their pre-grn GA's. If i only took 1/2 payments from everybody up front, i'm not sure it'd be worth it for me to spend all that time and money.

[dmbprep69]

Ok well you can count me in right now I can have the funds put up as soon as 4 others r ready!
Peace,
Andrew

[FlatlineGA]

i make 2

[dmbprep69]

Come on guys we need to get this goin again please just pitch in, we really need these to get done already!
Peace,
Andrew

[MilzyZ34]

if you want to see my latest header creation, check out the front page of my website www.milzymotorsports.com - new 3.4 dohc headers

[FlatlineGA]

I got $750 anytime we got enough.

[voyager]

those DOHC headers look sweet! i am officially much less pessimistic now that i've seen the quality of what milzy can produce. my apologies for dampening the thread. now about cross-compatibility with L-bodies.. what if some of the people who front $$ drive berettas and not GA's? clearance for a manual transmission?

[MilzyZ34]

in order to make them work on both cars, we'd need one of each car left with us for test-fitting during the prototype period.

[voyager]

yeah i figured. i can measure out my engine bay if someone tells me where to measure, to compare with a GA, just for an idea of wether it's feasible. i understand that you'd want a beretta to fit, and that measurement alone wouldn't be enough, but it would make this project alot easier to get off the ground (and more worthwhile for milzy) if we had some evidence that the market would be bigger than just old gen GA's.

[proudpapa94]

just wondering about the headers iv been trying to find out if i need to make any major mods to make them work

[Korbendallas68]

What headers?

TOG?

[FlatlineGA]

headers!

[dmbprep69]

I agree flatline, headers...

[ace_ga]

me too! headers!

[FlatlineGA]

That's 3

[BigRandCarFan_5]

Oh man, that'd be sweet!!!
I'm looking to replace the headers of my 95 GA with some high performance ones.
So if he can do it, I'd totally buy a set.
To bad I live in Canada. :(
Oh well, I totally want a set if he builds them.