Headers for Pre-99 GAs

[ace_ga]

Hey guys I have been over on mymonte.com talking to MilzyZ34 about making some headers for pre-99 GAs in addition to the monte carlos. He has agreed that if enough of us are SERIOUSLY interested he will make them for the 3100 and those of us who have done the 3400 swap. He just needs someone with a 92-95 GA so he can make sure they will fit. I think it would be best if it were someone in Ohio. So come on guys can someone in or near Dayton, Ohio let him use your car to mock up the headers? I really want these and i know there's plenty of us who would like them. His email addy is milzyz34@yahoo.com if you want to talk to him.

Oh yeah this is the same guy who is developing the cams for our engines also. So post up and let me know what you guys think.

[Azrael]

I did my part for the cause. The only problem now is waiting. :)

[Azrael]

Just got word back from Milzy. He only wants 5 orders to get them made. That's it...5. Surely there's at least 3-4 others here who'd want these. Not sure if he'd want me releasing the price he quoted me, but uncoated, they're less than the 3400 S&S headers without the cat. Ceramic coating is an additional $150.

[bobgagt]

Yes I do... but like I said... need to know price

Just IM me if you can on AIM: GAGT215

[Azrael]

I don't have aim so consider yourself PM'd. :)

[Big Joe]

i would be interested depending on the price. Im pretty much gonna buy them no matter what but i donno if i can afford them at this very moment

[bobgagt]

Well it would be great if he would accept like half down right now, then when hes done making them, the other half. That would help out a ton I think...

[rixGAphx]

Hi, guys!!

I've been hanging-out in Tech for a year-and-a-half, just trying to keep the Ga working while I paid it off. :roll2:

She's now quite dependable, and as fun to drive and as suited to my needs as anything will ever be.
So, I'm looking forward to a long-term relationship, and am now interested in POWER and handling/braking.

No desires to do a 3400 swap, since I could buy a '99+ 3400 for not much more than the cost of a swap.

I'm in for the headers, with my now-stock 3100.
A decent cam would be great, too.
Let me know the particulars. No AIM, just PM me.

-Rick

[bobgagt]

So thats 4 people then... wheres the 5th?

Oh and final details?

[FlatlineGA]

I want headers, and I'm probably the only one willing to front the money :P

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
I want headers, and I'm probably the only one willing to front the money :P
Fer all FIVE OF US???? What a guy!!:D





j/k.

I have no problem with 50% up-front for a custom-made thing, but I'm very wary of payment-in-full.

-Rix

[SPECIALGAGT]

You now have six !! I will upfront for the headers (not painted) and a cam, if the cam has decent specs. and is billet, not regrind. It will prolly use new lifters: specs and prices and availability here, too, please. Tell me where to send the $$$ and how much ..

[Azrael]

I'm also willing to front the full amount (for myself :P). If you're all seriously interested by all means email milzy at milzyz34@yahoo.com and let him know. I'll email him myself and see if I can dig up any specs/info and any other requirements he has. This is awesome guys! We'll finally have headers yet! :D

Email the same guy about cams rixGAphx, I believe he also has a selection of N/A and boosted grinds available for the 3x00's.

The only problem I see now is getting someone with a 94-98 V6 grand am for him to tool around with. Also, the beretta's have the same exhaust clearances we do?

[ace_ga]

here is a PM he sent me about making the headers for us. looks like we can really get them made if you guys really want them:


"that's cool. as long as we get the initial 5 people, i'll make them. the thing about that is that i would want these 5 payed in full, b/c the to start the production of a new set of headers, it takes close to 2k to make the first two sets and fixtures. so yeah i think we can do the non-refundable deposit for now, but before we start production, everyone needs to be payed in full, b/c if i can make 5 at once, the production price goes down a little, and i can make the headers without losing money, or atleast much money. are these posts on grandamgt.com? if so, can you give me a link.

oh yeah, details on the headers ... 1 5/8's primaries, lazer-cut flanges, mild steel, v-band clamps instead of traditional flanges. price will be around 450 non-coated, 600 ceramic coated."

[bobgagt]

Oooooooooohhhh.... I'm excited... its gonna be hard to come up with $450 right away but if theres some sort of receipt / gaurantee or something... idk its just scary doing that over the internet.

ANYWAYS, they sound like a good deal... how does this work though as far as downpipe? Do we need to then get a custom one made or is there one included or do we use stock? Also, the o2 sensor... just a couple concerns of mine.

-Bob

[Azrael]

Some more info to digest: "due to the small amount of room these headers have to fit in, equal-length may be hard to get. we'll do what we can, but they will probably be unequal. we haven't determined primary length yet, we'll do that on the car."

Long story short: Some of the most influential factors of the headers won't be known until they're made. Un-equal length headers aren't all bad though. Instead of a large high-end power gain we'll see a slightly smaller gain, only throughout a broader RPM range.

Also for those who might want to know. Milzy only accepts Paypal and/or money orders.

[FlatlineGA]

well he told me he's just waiting on the 5 people to pay, I'm always ready to pay, but I'm not going to until you guys that have to "come up" with the money, do. let me know when you guys are paid, i can send it at any time.

[Azrael]

I have all the money I need for this set aside as well, including a shop to install it already. Just waiting on everyone else to say they're ready. Come on guys! Only 3 more to say they're ready!! :)

[bobgagt]

I'm not giving $450 to someone who I don't know at all. I don't have a problem giving half down, then when they are done the other half... but I would like to actually talk to this person, not listen to the "oh he said this, now we do this." No... I'm sorry but $450 is a lot of money to risk.

Anyways if he posts on here and we have a set place for discussion / updates and all his contact information I would be a little more willing to do it. Anyways I have half ready right now...

And are we gauranteed to notice a difference? I don't want to spend $450 for 10 hp... just a thought.

-Bob

[FlatlineGA]

headers are only supposed to give you 10hp aren't they. if you want to talk to him, e-mail him. he said he would try to remember to make a thread, but he's trying to finish his company's website by the deadline.

[bobgagt]

Ok, I can wait.

[FlatlineGA]

first you really wanted the hood, they made it, you didn't get it, now you really wanted headers, they are gonna make it, you aren't getting it, you're funny bob

[bobgagt]

Some things are more important in life than cars. I just bought a house and I'm getting married in May.

So as I previously stated, IT CAN WAIT. What I do with my money and my car is my business... I don't get handouts I EARN my money the old fashioned way.

[FlatlineGA]

uh yeah bob I earn money too, i get lucky and get some small sponsors once and awhile. i understnad you do what you want with your car, i'm just saying you're the one that was wanting these things to be made beforehand. anyways, so we only got 2 now that are definitely in? looks like this is just another thing that's just not gonna happen.

[bobgagt]

Who gets the money? Some guy that some guy knows?

WE NEED AN INFORMATIONAL THREAD DEEPER THAN THIS!

[TheNewLMHDesign]

If they still need a test fitter for the 92-95, I will be more than happy to drop her by. I need to go out there anyways for a meeting, so I could drop her by for a few hours, days, or however long it'll take.

Just email me at LeeHolman@insightbb.com or PM me for info such as my phone number and stuff like that.

[FlatlineGA]

BOB, EMAIL HIM!

[MilzyZ34]

ok guys, i heard my presence was requested over here, so i came as soon as i could. we've been working for the last couple days trying to get the website up ( www.milzymotorsports.com ). I started Milzy Motorsports 3 years ago, i finally registered it with the state within the last year. I'm not just a guy who some guy knows, it's a registered business which means if i screw anyone over, the Better Business Bureau will have my ass.

so for this header fabrication, we need 5 orders payed up front, and this is to help cover the large investment that is made when you start production on a set of headers (i pay close to 2 grand to have the first two sets made). now i know a lot of you guys already posted that you're interested or will get the headers, but just for clarity, lets have everyone who is serious about the headers (wants on the initial buy, and will have the money right away when needed) post saying that they are in on the initial buy. that way there's no confusion on who just wants a set, and who will buy. once we have 5 people in, i will collect payment. another GA guy already contacted me about donating his car for use for the fabrication, so i will build them on that car. Fabrication should take 2 weeks, and then maybe 2 weeks for ceramic coating. sometimes they're fast, sometimes they're not, depends if you can catch them when they're making a run of ceramic coating. We're also going to make the headers with v-band clamps a.k.a. aircraft exhaust clamps. they don't leak and come off with one nut. any questions feel free to ask.

my e-mails are www.milzyz34@yahoo.com and www.milzymotorsports@hotmail.com

[FlatlineGA]

I'm up for the initial buy, with the coating.

[TheNewLMHDesign]

So, they will be fit for all 92-98's, correct? Or are you just looking to do the 96-98's first, and then see if they will fit the 92-95's?

[NDN Racer]

when they are done I will buy some for my car No BS when they are done i'll buy them

[Azrael]

The headers will only fit 94-98 GAs. The 92-93's used the 3300 V6 which is a completely different beast from the 3100. I'm also in for the initial buy, coated. Just let me know where to paypal the money too and I'll send it in when the other members are ready.

[FlatlineGA]

it looks like all we'll have is 2

[bobgagt]

Will a custom down pipe be needed to use these headers?

[voyager]

i'm interested in headers ( they would have to fit in my beretta ), but i'm not interested in paying $600 up front for a product that hasn't even begun pre-production yet. i want to see at least a mock up or a pre-production set on a car before i toss out a bunch of cash..

i have the money and am ready to buy when i see there's a product to buy.

we probably will need a custom downpipe. i need a 2.5" outlet for mine as that's the size of my current downpipe. it'd be nice to have the D-shaped ports on the flanges in case anyone does the 3400 or newer style 3100 top end swap, or to make them compatable with an engine swap. we need an O2 bung too.

they should be compatable with the older mpfi engines as well, with a different set of flanges.

milzy, have you made headers before? can we see pics of previous work?

[bobgagt]

I'm with ^^

Have money, will wait until first 5 are done.

[FlatlineGA]

well sorry to bust your bubble guys but without you, the first 5 won't get made...

[Peyman]

:stupid:

[FlatlineGA]

hey pey how come u aren't tryin to get in on this? i forgot u had the 3.1

[Peyman]

because i know it wont happen....and if it does...im not stupid to put money down on something thats not even made yet....and have to wait 923478978293 years to get them...or not get them at all...YEAH...its called having a brain

[FlatlineGA]

oh ok, that's what that is...cool...i guess this is why we never get new stuff...because...grand am owners...suck

[bobgagt]

Stop whining and go buy a civic... seriously you don't even know what headers do (or what they did) until I told you. Don't make generalizations about everyone else (grand am owners) when you didn't even do 25% of your modifications yourself. Now THAT sucks...

[voyager]

i don't even own a GA.

i'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, and i'd love to see a set of headers made for 3100's at a fraction of the JBP set's price, but is it that hard to believe that most people aren't willing to hand over a big wad of cash to a guy that doesn't even frequent this board, for a set of headers that he hasn't even begun to build?

i've seen a dozen header projects get started and go nowhere. this is the first one i've seen that wanted all the $$$ up front before anyone ever so much as opened a hood.

i don't mean to offend milzy, but seriously, i have no idea who he is and i think this is an odd way of doing business. it has scam written all over it. i'm not saying that's what it is; i know it takes money to get started. it's not going to be my money. does that mean i suck? i think it means i'm prudent.

[FlatlineGA]

I'm just saying this is why nothing gets made for our cars. Bob, you're the one that needs to quit whining, I have done three times more modifications myself then you have in modifications total. Most companies do want preorders before they start assembly on something, even large companies. This isn't getting made, and you guys complaining about paying money to have something done obviously don't want them bad enough. These aren't getting made, end the damn thread.

[bobgagt]

Originally posted by voyager
i don't even own a GA.

i'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, and i'd love to see a set of headers made for 3100's at a fraction of the JBP set's price, but is it that hard to believe that most people aren't willing to hand over a big wad of cash to a guy that doesn't even frequent this board, for a set of headers that he hasn't even begun to build?

i've seen a dozen header projects get started and go nowhere. this is the first one i've seen that wanted all the $$$ up front before anyone ever so much as opened a hood.

i don't mean to offend milzy, but seriously, i have no idea who he is and i think this is an odd way of doing business. it has scam written all over it. i'm not saying that's what it is; i know it takes money to get started. it's not going to be my money. does that mean i suck? i think it means i'm prudent.

I agree. And for the record Wes I'm not whining... I'm wasting time and space here talking / arguing with you, so for your peace of mind, you win. I'm wrong, youre right lets move on ;)

-Bob

[Azrael]

Milzy is a Monte Carlo owner so he doesn't need to frequent this forum. A board he does frequent though is www.mymonte.com and I think he makes the occasional appearence at www.60degreev6.com as well. And since monte's use the 3x00 V6's too he should know his way around on the engine side of things at the least. He's one of the few people who will ever be willing to help us out and we may never get an oppurtunity like this again. I may sound like I'm pushing for this but I too am cautious about it, albeit optimistically. I just want to help out our mostly ignored community is all. Maybe when he gets his website in order we'll have a better idea of what to expect.

[1992grandam]

if i had 450 bucks i would so be in on this but seeing as im a broke college student itll hafta wait :(

[ace_ga]

D*mn, i almost forgot about this thread. You guys can put me down as number 3 on the list. Just let me know when we get a definate 5 and I will have the money. Just have to work a bit of overtime and i will be straight. Come on Peyman and Bob, from the posts I've seen Milzy make over on mymonte.com, he seems to be a very trust-worthy guy. This is also the guy that is making the billet cams for the 3x00. Come on guys, we MUST get these made.

[Azrael]

I've been doing some reading on when the TOG headers were made for the 3400's here (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64&page=6&pp=20&highlight=Exhaust). After the 2nd dyno, Aleroboy saw an extra 18.9 HP at the wheels. Although granted he has extensive intake mods already I would estimate a stock 3100 would gain somewhere between 10-15whp max. I'd say it's realistically closer to 10. On a conservative estimate of a 10whp gain with a 25% drivetrain loss (I'm not really sure what the loss is but it seemed like a safe number) I get a 13-14 HP gain at the crank. Intake/exhaust mods will only bring that number higher.

Of course I could be wrong. If someone knows that I am, please let me know.

[MilzyZ34]

sorry for the late response guys, i have it set up to notify me when there's a response, but yahoo dumped it to a "bulk" folder thinking it was spam.

anyways, the reason i am asking for the money up front is b/c i don't have the funds to finance this start-up project b/c we've got all our money invested in other products, and this will be the case for some time. i'm basically giving you guys the chance to get headers made for a decent price if i was only making two sets of headers, i'd sell them for about a grand each, non-coated. the 5 orders up front allows me to make this price much more reasonable for you.

btw, one of us has a 3300 grand am, so if that's something some of you would want, we could do those also, but this would be a separate buy from the 3100 headers.

[ace_ga]

hey milzy, we have 3 definite buyers for the 3100 headers as of right now. do you think you could find two more? i know of one person locally i can ask but i have to track him down first. i think he would definately be in. come one guys we need TWO more!

[TJ95GAGT]

Maybe a dumb question but is there any mechanical differences between the ceramic coated and non? Are the non ceramic coated headers "ugly" so to speak, any pics of the non coated ones? I assume they wouldnt look any worse then stock.

[vdgmcool]

Originally posted by TJ95GAGT
Maybe a dumb question but is there any mechanical differences between the ceramic coated and non? Are the non ceramic coated headers "ugly" so to speak, any pics of the non coated ones? I assume they wouldnt look any worse then stock.


I think ceramics stay cooler so you get more horsepower.

[MilzyZ34]

ceramic coating keeps the heat in the exhaust manifold and out of your engine bay. hotter exhaust moves faster, so more power, and colder intake temps also mean more power. the ceramic coatinbg has a finish similar to chrome, so it looks nicer than the raw headers. the coating also helps prevent corrosion.

[ace_ga]

come on guys. we only need 2 more people so we can get these made.

[SPECIALGAGT]

Count me in for a set of headers for '96 3100, and cam for same, if it is billet and NOT re-grind. Is there a lifter kit available with the cam?? So, now we've got 6 orders from people willing to front 1/2 the cost of one set of headers each. That should pay for three sets buuilt, no?? When our fabricator builds three sets, and at least one guy gets his on and is satisfied, more bucks will show. My $$$ is ready. Let's see the installation.

[bobgagt]

They need ALL the money in full. I was down for half too but thats not gonna cut it I guess.

[TJ95GAGT]

I'm more then willing and able to put up 1/2 for the coated headers. I just dont feel comfortable doing full price without atleast seeing the pruduct. I didnt do it for my taillights and I'm not going to do it for the headers. Thats just how I feel. What if we get more people to do HALF down? You would get the same $$ down, but when u ship you would end up with more, well moving more product atleast. lol

[ace_ga]

i will talk to Milzy and see what he says.

[Azrael]

Since there are 3 of us that are willing to front the whole amount then we'd probably only need about 4 people fronting half for him to get the same amount of money. Which should still be fairly do-able. We'll wait and see what Milzy thinks about that.

I also found out that the TOG headers for the 99+ GA's are actually unequal length too. They make up for it by varying the diameter of the primaries slightly to tune each one to the same specs. Very similar to what the audio guys do when tuning ported enclosures.

[bobgagt]

If that would work, that would be great :)

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by Azrael
Since there are 3 of us that are willing to front the whole amount then we'd probably only need about 4 people fronting half for him to get the same amount of money. Which should still be fairly do-able. We'll wait and see what Milzy thinks about that.

I also found out that the TOG headers for the 99+ GA's are actually unequal length too. They make up for it by varying the diameter of the primaries slightly to tune each one to the same specs. Very similar to what the audio guys do when tuning ported enclosures.

i think we can work with that plan

[ace_ga]

Originally posted by MilzyZ34
i think we can work with that plan

Alright guys, you heard it straight from the horses mouth. time to step up to the plate if you really want these. So Milzy, let us know how you want to do this.

[MilzyZ34]

i'll accept two payment methods ... money order and paypal, also cash if you're in the area.

money orders can be sent to...

Mike Miller
Milzy Motorsports
2824 Fence Stone Ct
Dayton OH 45458

and please include all contact info, and that this is for the pre-99 GA header project

we also accept payments via paypal. payments through paypal will be subject to a 3.5% service fee. my address for this is milzymotorsports@hotmail.com

[FlatlineGA]

milzy check your email

[MilzyZ34]

ygm

[ace_ga]

Ok i read through this thread and it seems that only me, FlatlineGA, SpecialGAGT, and Azrael are willing to pay up front. Come on guys lets pay and get this on the road. I will have all of my money the end of this week when i get my check.

Oh yeah Milzy, i have done the 3400 swap on my 95 with a 99 GA engine. Will the exhaust ports match up to the header flanges youre gonna use for the headers. Also, what were the final prices for coated and uncoated again?

[FlatlineGA]

Yeah I don't wanna send this man a $600 money order and then the rest of you guys say you realized you didn't have the money for these right now.

[ace_ga]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
Yeah I don't wanna send this man a $600 money order and then the rest of you guys say you realized you didn't have the money for these right now.

i will have the rest of my money this week. I think we just need Azrael, SpecialGAGT, and i forget the other guys name, to check in.

[Azrael]

My money for this is set aside and waiting in my bank account. I won't be touching it untill this is ready to go.

[FlatlineGA]

well from what i can tell me, ace, azrael, and specialgagt were willing to front the full amount anyway, so that's 4 right? maybe i'm wrong about all them. TJ95GAGT and bob were willing to do half, i just wanna make sure people are actually gonna pay, and not come up with excuses

[TJ95GAGT]

I have to get a money order for some other parts so I'll get one for millzy too for 1/2.Mine can be sent this week, no excuses from me.

Are the headers the same for all V6 94-98 GA's? Will an exhuast shop be able to make a downpipe for these since it wont have one? I'm not to keen on how these will work, my first performance mod. But I'm gonna do the whole exhaust when I get these and an intake.

[bobgagt]

I'm ready for half this week too... just let me know paypal address and the amount and maybe a receipt or something would be nice. How long will it take then for them to be done?

[FlatlineGA]

paypal is your receipt

[MilzyZ34]

these headers will fit grand ams equiped with 3100 and 3400, they will not fit 3300 engines.

the design of the headers will be such that the exit flange on the headers will be at the bottom of the car. the "downpipe" will actually be a straight section of pipe that will connect it to the exisiting cat-back. ANY exhaust shop will be able to do this easily.

[bobgagt]

AWESOME^^

How long will the tooling take?

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
AWESOME^^

How long will the tooling take?

once we have all the parts, it should take 1-2 weeks of fabrication.

[bobgagt]

Ok lets get that official check list so we know people arent gonna back out. Saturday morning I can send you the m/o for half (I really dont want to pay 3.5% service fee lol..).

[FlatlineGA]

i can get a $600 money order whenever i'm sure others won't be backing out

[Azrael]

I'll also get a money order when everyone is ready. I'd also rather spend $1 on postage than $30 Cdn for a service fee. :P

[bobgagt]

A couple more questions. I know you said the downpipe would come down and be right inline with the cat (which is awesome) but is there going to be a place to hook up the EGR piping to? And is there going to be an 02 sensor bung in the downpipe too?

-Bob

[Korbendallas68]

Originally posted by rixGAphx

No desires to do a 3400 swap, since I could buy a '99+ 3400 for not much more than the cost of a swap.

Damn. How much do you think it costs to do a 3400 swap? lol
You could do one for prolly under $700, or cheaper.

I'll put a link up on my site. Maybe someone else outside this forum will be interested.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
A couple more questions. I know you said the downpipe would come down and be right inline with the cat (which is awesome) but is there going to be a place to hook up the EGR piping to? And is there going to be an 02 sensor bung in the downpipe too?

-Bob

we would probaby be able to get an egr system on the car, but this could add to the price of the headers. maybe we'll have this as an option? any ideas?

[Korbendallas68]

I would definatly recommend the EGR connection option. But that's just me. I ran without and EGR for a long time, I got sick of seeing the SES light. Can't you just cut a hole and weld a bolt in there?

[Azrael]

I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for an EGR port. I'm paranoid about breakdowns so I'd like to keep the SES light able to alert me to a real problem.

[TJ95GAGT]

^ yeah, if its going to throw up the SES light 24/7 without the EGR I'd definetly pay some extra to have it made into the header.

[bobgagt]

Yup... I got the $225 ready to be mailed out too

Just so long as the headers could have something similar to the stock thing on them for the EGR. I'm not saying make a new tube for it and all that... I'm just saying make it so we can re-use our EGR tube and somehow attach it to the new headers.

-Bob

[voyager]

i think you should have an 02 bung and an egr fitting too. just a fitting would be all that's neccessary; people could re-use their egr tube or get an extension if they needed it. otherwise, we'd have to drill and tap the headers ourselves, or block off the egr, which would be bad for emissions & economy. an )2 bung is going to be needed in any case.

i hope i don't sound too negative in my other posts. i really want to see this project go through; i just don't want to front the money. respect for those of you that are!

[FlatlineGA]

Originally posted by voyager
i really want to see this project go through; i just don't want to front the money. respect for those of you that are!

Now that's a grand am owners quote if i've ever heard one

[Korbendallas68]

So how is the project coming along anyways? How many people do we need?

[bobgagt]

I think its time to start a new thread with EVERYONE who is going to pay and only those who are going to pay... saying "money sent" and milzy can say "money received" from so and so, etc. I have the money order for $225 sitting right next to me waiting... who else is ready RIGHT now?

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
Yup... I got the $225 ready to be mailed out too

Just so long as the headers could have something similar to the stock thing on them for the EGR. I'm not saying make a new tube for it and all that... I'm just saying make it so we can re-use our EGR tube and somehow attach it to the new headers.

-Bob

we will definately have an o2 bung on the headers. as for the egr, i just want to see how the stock setup is, and based on that we will either use the stock setup if possible making provisions for these on the headers, or find a way to adapt a different gm egr to the setup. we will work on finding a solutionb to this as soon as we have the prototype car here.

[bobgagt]

Good deal... and who is the prototype car and is he/she a for sure go for it?

[Azrael]

Originally posted by bobgagt
I think its time to start a new thread with EVERYONE who is going to pay and only those who are going to pay... saying "money sent" and milzy can say "money received" from so and so, etc. I have the money order for $225 sitting right next to me waiting... who else is ready RIGHT now? Agreed. I'll pick up a money order form on tuesday.

[voyager]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
Now that's a grand am owners quote if i've ever heard one

=D dude i've never even owned a single pontiac.. chill; us beretta modders have it worse than you guys.

:lol:

maybe there should be a new thread in the group buy section..

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
Good deal... and who is the prototype car and is he/she a for sure go for it?

David Lisiecki e-mailed me when we started this thread, and told me he's willing to donate his car to put the headers on. he's planning on selling the car, and won't be needing the headers, but wanted to help out the GA community by letting us use his car, and then putting it back to stock after we build the headers.

[Korbendallas68]

Side Bar: How much does he want for his car? Anyone know?

[bobgagt]

Awesome... well if things fall through (like only me and two others send our money) you'll be able to re-imburse us right? This is gonna be awesome.. I can't wait.

[MilzyZ34]

we will not be purchasing materials until we've received enough money to completely pay for 5 sets of headers. This means that we will be able to refund in the event we do not reach the requires 5 buyers. This also means that we will be on hold till we receive all the money, so hopefully everyone pays and pays quickly. once we've purchased materials and begin production, these orders are final and will not be refunded.

[FlatlineGA]

This is the first I've heard about having 5 completely paid sets, I don't think we have 5

[FlatlineGA]

Originally posted by voyager
=D dude i've never even owned a single pontiac.. chill

sorry i always forget that it's not grand am owners club anymore

[bobgagt]

Alright well I'm sending my money order out tomorrow morning. Send it to the address you posted right Milzy?

Hopefully everyone else gets on it this week... Wes the plan was laid out in the previous page where he said it was ok with a couple people paying in full and the rest paying in half until they are done.

-Bob

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
This is the first I've heard about having 5 completely paid sets, I don't think we have 5

read my post made on 3/4/05.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
sorry i always forget that it's not grand am owners club anymore

yes, 3 full payments, and four 1/2 payments still is the same amount as 5 full payments, so that is fine.

the address once again is ...

Mike Miller
Milzy Motorsports
2824 Fence Stone Ct
Dayton OH 45458

[FlatlineGA]

yeah but we never had 3 full and 4 1/2 payments, there hasn't been 7 definite people on this, as far as i can count. i'm with bob, i got the money, and i'm ready to send it. i would be more comfortable if we could get the 7 people to post though, because from what i have seen in this thread, you are not gonna get 5 sets worth of payment, and i'm gonna be out of 600 bucks for a few weeks waiting for it to get sent back to me.

[MilzyZ34]

if you guys want to wait to pay until we have all the buyers, it's up to you.

[FlatlineGA]

I just wanna make sure there's enough on here

Flatline-Full
Bob-Half

post up if you are in, for sure, ready to pay

[ace_ga]

Flatline- full
BobGAGT- half
ace_ga- half

I was in for the full amount but i got an unexpected bill in the mail from the DMV. But im sure I will have the other half back by next week. Im still in on this regardless.

[Azrael]

Flatline - full
Azrael - full
BobGAGT - half
ace_ga - half

[bobgagt]

3 more! :)

[Korbendallas68]

Ok. I did my part, $225. I sent what I could.

Trust me guys, MilzyZ34 has been around for a long time on the Monte forums. Very trust-worthy.

[urweak]

this might help solve the EGR problem, i know its for a 3800 but alot of use 2.4 guys us it with no problems.

http://www.zzperformance.com/products1.php?id=176

[FlatlineGA]

Flatline - full
Azrael - full
BobGAGT - half
ace_ga - half
Korbendallas68-half

we need another full and another half

[Korbendallas68]

I posted a link on GAGT.com

[FlatlineGA]

I hope we can go ahead and clarify that we have enough, because having all this money is tempting :D

[bobgagt]

2 more.... :D :D :D

[TheShiznit]

Im dying to have headers and Im close to getting a set of S&S and modifying them. But unless I see a picture and dyno of what these bad boys can do, Im not going to throw money down. But like someone said, Props for those who dropped the money for the production, you have balls.

Milzy, try to dyno the headers before you give the car back. I need numbers!

[MilzyZ34]

payment received from Korbendallas68 for half

[bobgagt]

Milzy if its not too much trouble it might help to post the same thing you did at the beginning of this thread over at gmpt.net. I think we may have a couple people there ready for half...

[Korbendallas68]

I've started a thread over there. Milzy can just jump in and add what he needs to. I linked to this thread.

[Peyman]

so once these go into production....how long do you estimate until they are ready to be shipped out?....

[TJ95GAGT]

$300 for 1/2 down on ceramic coated right? Do you still need another person?

Sorry I havent been keeping up, I had a few job interviews last week that took up all my free time. Hopefully it'll pay off.

[Korbendallas68]

Yes! Please join in!

[PontiacGT]

hmm....$600 is not a bad deal......hmm......

[bobgagt]

I'm still ready to send my money out... just want to make sure we got that extra 1.5 people! :)

[ace_ga]

Originally posted by Peyman
so once these go into production....how long do you estimate until they are ready to be shipped out?....

IIRC Peyman, Milzy said it would take about 2 weeks then probably another extra week for those who wanted theirs ceramic coated. dont quote me on that though. so why dont ya join in man? you know you want headers dont ya:P


as far as me. i should be ready for my half the end of this week. so do we have enough people yet?

[Azrael]

That's after they go into production though. Once Milzy gets the money he needs to start the fabricating it's 1-2 weeks of tooling/fitting on the donor car. Then 1-2 weeks for production (plus 1-2 extra weeks for coated ones) then just add shipping times. I'll be paypal'ing my money in sometime this week.

[bobgagt]

As soon as you paypal it Azrael my money order will be in the mail :)

[Azrael]

Money sent. Wow does Paypal ever rape customers by playing with exchange rates. They use the exchange rate from it's lowest point at the beginning of the day. Eventhough the difference from the current rate was only $0.02 US it made a $20 Cdn difference with this much money involved. :no:

I still believe this will be worth it though. :thumbup2:

And now I'm broke since I also just got springs, struts, brake pads and rotors. :D

[bobgagt]

Mine goes out tomorrow morning :)

[bobgagt]

Money order = sent :)

[Korbendallas68]

Sweet.

Hows about an update on the header funds Milzy?

[TJ95GAGT]

I'm gonna try to have a money order sent saturday. This semester of slacking on the school work and working FT is catching up. lol

[dmbprep69]

I canget a full payment to u for coated which is 600 right? Just let me know where to paypal it to! I would like to see dyno sheets when the first ones r finished.
Peace,
Andrew

[gran_dam98]

Anyone know what the status is of these? as far as the payments go...

[Azrael]

Originally posted by dmbprep69
I can get a full payment to u for coated which is 600 right? Just let me know where to paypal it to! Don't forget to add the 3.5% paypal usage fee which comes to $21 for a total of $621.

Originally posted by gran_dam98
Anyone know what the status is of these? as far as the payments go...
As far as I know milzy has 1 full and 1 half payment in his account with at least another half payment on the way.

[MilzyZ34]

payment received from az.

please send payments to milzymotorsports@hotmail.com , not my milzyz34@yahoo.com address. it's not a big deal az, just trying to keep things separate for tax purposes.

right now, we have one full and one half payment.

[gran_dam98]

now whats going to happen w/ the extra two half payments? are you fabricating two more sets of headers after the initial 5?

[gran_dam98]

oh yea, i also never got a straight answer to, if these are going to fit people like me w/ the 3400 swapped into the pre-99

edit: on a side note, don't you think we should start a new thread in the group buy section or something, to keep everyone updated

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by gran_dam98
now whats going to happen w/ the extra two half payments? are you fabricating two more sets of headers after the initial 5?

yes

[MilzyZ34]

1/2 payment received from BobGAGT

[FlatlineGA]

Let me know when you need one more full payment

[MilzyZ34]

feel free to send it any time. the more people that pay, the faster the others will follow, and the quicker the cams will be done.

paypal fees increased guys, if you guys paypal me, add 4% now.

[bobgagt]

Cams? You mean headers right? lol...

[FlatlineGA]

Well paypal is instant, so when all you need is 1 more full I will be the 1.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
Cams? You mean headers right? lol...

oops, mixed up my projects.:???: you know what i meant

we've been developing camshafts for the 3100/3400 for quite some time now, and received them yesterday, so i guess that's what my mind was on

[voyager]

wait -- does that mean there are cams ready for the 3x00 now? or you just got some blanks?

[HondaCivicsSuck]

Originally posted by voyager
wait -- does that mean there are cams ready for the 3x00 now? or you just got some blanks?

i think so :)

[bobgagt]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
Well paypal is instant, so when all you need is 1 more full I will be the 1.

Looks like someone doesnt have the money :lol:

[MilzyZ34]

wait -- does that mean there are cams ready for the 3x00 now? or you just got some blanks?

yes. finished billet camshafts, not regrinds or blanks. are you interested in one in particular?

[Korbendallas68]

I know there was thread on this earlier, but what the asking price for the cams?

And when you want the other half payment from us half payers? When the project is done?

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by Korbendallas68
I know there was thread on this earlier, but what the asking price for the cams?

And when you want the other half payment from us half payers? When the project is done?

the asking price on the cams right now is 380 plus shipping.

yes, we'll need the money for the other haves when the headers are done, before coating.

[FlatlineGA]

Originally posted by bobgagt
Looks like someone doesnt have the money :lol:

You were the one complaining about paying in full. I got plenty of money, but there's no point in sending payment if there aren't enough people, so just let me know when there are enough. ;)

[Azrael]

Milzy's website (www.milzymotorsports.com) is up and running for those interested. Nice selection of upgrades!

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by Azrael
Milzy's website (www.milzymotorsports.com) is up and running for those interested. Nice selection of upgrades!

yeah, let me know what you guys think.

[bobgagt]

The website looks good...

What would you recommend on the cams? Like what else has to be done to get full gain and what kind of gains to they have?

[Korbendallas68]

LS1 Springs are a good start. They're cheap to get.

[voyager]

nice looking website!

i'm not quite ready for a cam until it's engine swap time.. well maybe, but i have to finish some other projects first.. but it's great to see it out there and i'll definately spread the word around the beretta boards. i know this is getting off topic, but Milzy, what are the specs on the cam? where is the power band? seeing a dyno would be great.

[TheNewLMHDesign]

Everything looks good. Maybe an update on the logo to make it flow better with the site, but thats about it. All in all, it looks good. And is very easy to manuever around.

[MilzyZ34]

as for the specs, we have some competition right now from another group still deciding on specs, so i am not putting that on the boards right now, but i will soon.

as for power gains, i know what the prospective gains could be, but dyno proof won't be availavle until we do an install and take it to the dyno. ballpark gains are listed on the site.

for a stage 1 cam, some supporting mods that would help maximize the cam would be a bigger tb, headers, stage 1 heads, pcm for the cam, etc. by the way, i now have the ability to tune any 96-up gm v6, not sure if this applies to you guys if you use the obd-2 pcm's or not, but i'll just put that on the table. the stage 2 cam will need these mods even more to see maximum gains, the stage 2 cam requires headwork.

[bobgagt]

Ooohh... how much for an ECM reprogram?

[voyager]

rats.. you can't reflash my 95 eh?

[Korbendallas68]

Nope. But you can convert that POS 94 or 95 to OBD1 that you can program yourself. I will post it on 3400 when I get around to it.

[voyager]

i'd be interested in that.. my car's OBDI.5 - no MAF, one 02 sensor, no chip either.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
Ooohh... how much for an ECM reprogram?

i will be charging between 100-200 for pcm tuning depending what they want done.

[bobgagt]

What can you all do with it?

And how many more payments do you need? I might be able to send my other half this friday... I want these headers :D

[MilzyZ34]

i can edit about every single parameter or function in the pcm

i believe we've received 1 full and two half payments. i made a post every time i received a payment

[PontiacGT]

Can you make my governor not kick in at 105? get rid of that shit for me. maybe enhance shifts a bit more? I dunno...

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by PontiacGT
Can you make my governor not kick in at 105? get rid of that shit for me. maybe enhance shifts a bit more? I dunno...

yeah, i can change that, no problem.

[bobgagt]

Who else needs to pay yet? Come on people lets get these things made!

[96GreenGaGT]

thought you only needed 1 and a half more people to pay.... guess that's the problem with these things... everyone wants to see them made but nobody wants to front the green.

if i had the money i'd go in on it cuz i'd really love to get a set of headers before it becomes mainstream so i can be different for awhile lol.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by 96GreenGaGT
thought you only needed 1 and a half more people to pay.... guess that's the problem with these things... everyone wants to see them made but nobody wants to front the green.

if i had the money i'd go in on it cuz i'd really love to get a set of headers before it becomes mainstream so i can be different for awhile lol.

i've received actual payments from 3 people ... 1 full and two halves. there were people earlier in the thread who made a list of people who were going to pay, but that doesn't necessarily mean they paid or will pay. right now we need two more full payments, 2 more 1/2 payments.

[FlatlineGA]

That's what I was saying, I didn't think we had enough that would pay. I will be the final full payment if you get the rest you need, but I doubt that will happen.

[ace_ga]

Dont count me out. Im still in, i dont know about the rest of the guys. I just have to put aside what i can every week cuz lately bills have been kicking my ass.

[dmbprep69]

Can u give me a link so i can paypal u a full payment so we can get this shit movin? Ugh yeah just give me a link cuz i dunno how to pay u through paypal without a link.
Peace,
Andrew

[Azrael]

Originally posted by dmbprep69
Can u give me a link so i can paypal u a full payment so we can get this shit movin? Ugh yeah just give me a link cuz i dunno how to pay u through paypal without a link.
Peace,
Andrew Log into paypal, go to the send money section, fill out the necessary info with the email set as: milzymotorsports@hotmail.com plus don't forget to add 4% for paypal fees.

[ace_ga]

Originally posted by dmbprep69
Can u give me a link so i can paypal u a full payment so we can get this shit movin? Ugh yeah just give me a link cuz i dunno how to pay u through paypal without a link.
Peace,
Andrew

thats great! so now all we need is one more half payment besides mine and we're set.

[bobgagt]

FLATLINE JUST PAY!!!!

THEN OTHERS WILL BE MORE WILLING TO!!!!

You of all people... if they dont get made, the cash gets refunded. Its not a hard concept.

[FlatlineGA]

Get off my case Bob, I said when he just needs my payment, I'll pay. Don't cry about me not paying when you only made a half payment yourself. If dmbprep69 pays then I will pay and give milzy all the money he needs. It's not a hard concept, but say something else about it and you'll need to find someone else, I'm tired of your mouth.

[gran_dam98]

yikes.. getting a little out of hand

[FlatlineGA]

Well I said I'd pay when he needed one more full payment, and I will.

[bobgagt]

lol...

I'm sorry to clutter this thread up but I got my other half payment ready too. Wes if you don't want the headers dont get them I could care less about what you want to do. All I'm trying is to say is the more people pay, the more others will be willing to say hey these could get done! I'm in! :)

-Bob

[FlatlineGA]

.

[TheNewLMHDesign]

. I concur. Btw, i need a quick shot from you when you have two.

[TJ95GAGT]

Just sent my half deposit via Paypal.

[dmbprep69]

I just did my full payment through paypal so I think we are all set! If my math is right...
Peace,
Andrew

[Azrael]

Sweetness! Now all we need is 1 full and 1 half payment I think.

[96GreenGaGT]

i am currently out of job and am in college so yea i'm broke lol. i just got this gt so i'm not going to go straight into modding the car just yet. i need to see if this car will fall apart on me though i doubt it will. i've only had this car for 2 weeks. i've been looking at all of my options for mods for the past 2 weeks.

if these get made then great. there needs to be more stuff made for the 3100 partly due to the fact that everyone i've talked to before have said the 3100 wasn't worth modifying.

once i get a job i will be putting aside money for future upgrades that include these headers.

i have no doubt that these will be made. seeing as how he said a long time ago that if he had the money he would have them made already but since he spread his money into the other projects he's a lil short... that's why he's doing this prebuy.

with that in mind... do you think you could start another project in the future... a good turbocharger for the 3100 in both stage one and stage two. stage one... 8-10psi max... stage 2 10si and up.... or whatever... that would be sweet... and cheaper too since most places are asking too much for a s/c

[gran_dam98]

$225 money order = sent :)

[96GreenGaGT]

so that only leaves one full payment now am i correct?

no from what i understand he is going to be making more after this right? this is just to get the ball rolling and have the molds and stuff for them made? or whatever...

[FlatlineGA]

milzy you only need 1 more full or what?

[Azrael]

Originally posted by 96GreenGaGT
now from what i understand he is going to be making more after this right? this is just to get the ball rolling and have the molds and stuff for them made? or whatever... The initial 5 orders gives him enough money to get the materials to make the prototype. From there a jig of sorts will be made for the production run. He can make as many as he likes as long as he keeps the jig.

I'm curious where the prototype will end up.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
milzy you only need 1 more full or what?

full payment received from andrew

1/2 payment received from T.J.

still waiting for any money orders in the mail.

[FlatlineGA]

you didn't answer my question, how many more do you need?

[gran_dam98]

hopefully after my payment comes through, he is only waiting on one more full payment.. right Milzy? mine was sent out today, so should be there by tomorrow or wednesday

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
you didn't answer my question, how many more do you need?

well last time i posted i needed two and two, then i received one full and one half, so it's down to one of each that we need. (not counting those payments that are en route). so after that arrives, we'll need one full payment:)

[gran_dam98]

so it looks like it's your turn flatline :).. wohoo.. thank god this one went through :) i was afraid it wasn't going to

[bobgagt]

Sweet.. but if these dont make my car fastER watch for a 98 gt for sale.

[Azrael]

You'll probably see the biggest gain of us all Bob with those large port intake manfiolds you put on.

[gran_dam98]

so whats going on, you should have the payment already milzy yes??? I sent it Monday

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by gran_dam98
so whats going on, you should have the payment already milzy yes??? I sent it Monday

received payment from you for 1/2 yesterday:cool:

[FlatlineGA]

I'm running out the door right now but I'll send mine tonight

[Azrael]

Good work everyone! Soon we'll be able to show those 99+ guys that we can play just as hard. :burnout:

And a big :thanks: goes to Milzy.

[Korbendallas68]

Awesome. Vroom!

[gran_dam98]

So, is there a doner car??.. also how long for fabrication time.. not counting the ceramic coating..

[Korbendallas68]

Yup, 95-GT's car is the doner car. I would gladly let him use mine, but its my only car now.

[gran_dam98]

he has the 3400 swap correct?

[Korbendallas68]

Yup. And a lot of Mods I wish I had.

[FlatlineGA]

Well, like I said I'm ready to pay but I am looking through the thread and I'm not sure of the exact amount. Milzy can you give me the definite paypal total for a full payment on the coated headers.

[gran_dam98]

it's posted on his site 450 non coated, 600 coated, www.milzymotorsports.com

[FlatlineGA]

yeah but there is also a paypal fee

[gran_dam98]

oh yea, forgot about that sorry

[FlatlineGA]

I think I found it, 621, I'll send my payment

[Azrael]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
I think I found it, 621, I'll send my payment Paypal changed the usage fee's from 3.5% to 4%. The amount you need to send is now $624.

And Gran_dam98: Once he get's the donor car it'll take at least a month before Milzy has anything to send out. Coatings will take 1-2 extra weeks.

[gran_dam98]

SWEET!! :), Now I just would like to know the fabrication time.. I can't wait

[bobgagt]

Does anyone want to buy my preorder ($225) for $125? I'm selling the GA and I'm not gonna pull out of this... because this is huge... I'm glad the headers are getting made. But heres a chance for someone to get them for $100 less...

If someone wants that IM me on AIM not on here. My aim name is GAGT215.

-Bob

[Korbendallas68]

Ahh. Bob. That sucks.

[bobgagt]

Kind of... but I want something fast... something with turbo. We just got my wife to be a pt cruiser and the thing has a Hahn Racecraft stage 2 turbo setup on it pushing 9 psi.

Sadly, it waxes the Grand Am with all the mods I got... and the pt is an automatic. Plus now that she drives that, the sunfire she had is my daily driver. I figure the sunfire and grand am are comparable cars so why does it pay to park the GA? I love this car dont get me wrong its just all the time and money I've spent to make it faster hasn't really done much.

With that, someone will get these headers for $100 cheaper as a result... and I'll still hang around I still have a GM.

-Bob

[FlatlineGA]

I don't need your preorder but if you decide to sell any of your other stuff let me know

[bobgagt]

I may have a buyer (i think) for the car right now as it sits... but i'll let you know if that falls through.

[gran_dam98]

so whats up?? flatline's payment go through?

[FlatlineGA]

hell yeah that shit went through

[gran_dam98]

usually he responds right away when a payment was made, so just double checking.. so now we wait..

[MilzyZ34]

sorry guys, i've been working on a Grand Am the last couple days, installed heads and a cam :D

payment received from Flatline for 621.

[bobgagt]

Milzy my header pre-order now belongs to ACE_GA. He bought it from me cuz I dont have the 3100 anymore. If you need more information from me just PM me.

Thanks
-Bob

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by bobgagt
Milzy my header pre-order now belongs to ACE_GA. He bought it from me cuz I dont have the 3100 anymore. If you need more information from me just PM me.

Thanks
-Bob

ok

[ace_ga]

so when does development start?

[Azrael]

It'll start whenever he gets the donor car. Lol...I'm sure the donor had no idea this would actually go through. But now that this project is underway I'm curious about milzy's other projects. His website lists rear brake rotors for 91-98 GA's but iirc rear disk brakes weren't introduced untill the 1999 models. That and I wonder about the 3x00 throttlebody listed in the future products category. I was interested in domestic performance's billet TB but milzy's (likely non-billet) is slated to be cheapest TB available to us.

[gran_dam98]

bump.. anyone know if he has the doner car?

[MilzyZ34]

i tried contacting the guy who spoke u a couple months ago about it ... it's been a couple weeks with no response. so i still need a car to build them on.

[gran_dam98]

hmmm.. well we need a doner car guys!! how long do you need the car for??

[MilzyZ34]

Originally posted by gran_dam98
hmmm.. well we need a doner car guys!! how long do you need the car for??

atleast 2 weeks, 4 would be best.

[ace_ga]

no donor car yet? does anyone know how to get in touch with David (95-GT)?

[TJ95GAGT]

^ I think he posts often over on gagt.com.

[FlatlineGA]

OK Milzy this is why I didn't want to send my payment early. Even though I was one of the last to send my payment, it has been a month and you do not even have a car to fashion the headers on. If you do have a car and have not posted, then sorry. But unless you have a car lined up, I would like a refund, because I don't want to be out of 620 bucks for another month. :/

[gran_dam98]

Originally posted by FlatlineGA
OK Milzy this is why I didn't want to send my payment early. Even though I was one of the last to send my payment, it has been a month and you do not even have a car to fashion the headers on. If you do have a car and have not posted, then sorry. But unless you have a car lined up, I would like a refund, because I don't want to be out of 620 bucks for another month. :/

agreed.. if a refund does happen, i have moved recently so i would need to get you the address

[ace_ga]

i would like to know whats going on also. i really would like to see these get made sometime. i kinda need them ASAP cuz i am about to tear down my motor and put on all P&P parts and i want to get all this done in one attempt. Milzy, i can understand that your are very busy and all but it only takes a minute to come on here and give us some kind of update. we at least deserve that much. Hey flatline lets hold out a bit more until we can find out whats going on.

[Azrael]

These headers are holding me back on a 3400 swap. I'm still in no rush but it'd be nice to get these before winter hits.

[MilzyZ34]

sorry guys, it's been dumping these e-mails to my bulk folder and not my inbox ...

we're still needing a donor car. we are ready to make these as soon as we have one. we have flanges cut, and the piping would take a week to get here. all we need is the car to build them on.

[FlatlineGA]

I realize all we need is a donor car, but if we cannot find one soon, I do not see the point in waiting any longer.

[bobgagt]

Come on guys you can't give up on this. You all knew it would take some time and sometimes thats what you gotta do if you want something made... you need to be patient.

Someone get him a donor car and the shit will get done.

[FlatlineGA]

I knew it would take some time, but I didn't know it would be a month and still no donor car. I want these headers just as much as the next guy but I'm not gonna sit around another month without my money, and I don't know anyone whose car could be used.

[ace_ga]

maybe we should post on some forums that we need a donor car in Milzy's area and maybe Milzy could offer them a discount on a set of headers in return. what do you guys think?

[voyager]

heck he can use mine if i get a free set.. and i live hundreds of miles away. of course, it's a beretta....

=D

[Korbendallas68]

If I didn't have to drive so far for school every week I gladly would. I'll look into my options...

[FlatlineGA]

I have shows every other week

[MilzyZ34]

ok, apparently Flatline is dropping out, and rather than e-mailing me first, it seems he's had paypal pull funds from my account. if any more of you are looking to drop out, send me an e-mail, and i will paypal you or send you a personal check for the amount paid.

so it looks like we'll need another full payment. here's the deal ... i don't have a problem refunding anyone their money. if you want it back, e-mail me, and i'll get a payment out to you in a couple days. the money is kind of spread out in a couple accounts, so it can be a pain to get it all together. i was preparing to pay all the different vendors, not preparing to have to pay everyone back. i'm still willing to stick with this project as long as you guys are. so if you want to wait for another full payment, or those who paid 1/2, pay there other half, we can. i will refund your money only once. those who drop out will not be welcome back in this group buy. they can purchase the headers at the standard retail price when they come out.

that being said, i hope we can get this project off the ground.

[FlatlineGA]

I didn't have paypal pull funds from your account, I just requested a refund, it's the easiest way to do it.

[TheNewLMHDesign]

I told you ages ago that I would have give you the car as a donor, but everyone told me no. Now I'm down in Florida.....ehh, not my loss anyways.

[Korbendallas68]

I'm still in. There's no way I can pay the other half right now, but I won't pull out.