turbo

[sublime922]

have or know of any turbo set up or way of putting a turbo on a 3.3l v6?

[L!m3]

lower compression pistons first. along with heads. then talk about boost.

[Jason Lesbirel]

The 3.3l already has a pretty low compression ratio, relatively speaking, so that really wouldn't be a big problem.

A low-pressure turbo setup (7,8 psi) is possible on any engine, but you'll want to work with a company familiar with GM engines, specifically the programming and the general workings overall.

Do some research, and find a shop that does this kind of work - they're out there, just go and look.

Keep in mind that this won't be cheap, probably in the neighbourhood of 2500-4000$ US, given the custom nature of the install, and exactly what you specificallt want in a setup.

Given the tight confines, you may want to consider having the turbocharger run off of one bank of cylinders, preferably the rear three - it would simplify installation. There's a European OEM (I think it's Saab) that has a similar setup on a factory V6, and it works incredibly well.

[donalson]

Originally posted by Jason Lesbirel
Given the tight confines, you may want to consider having the turbocharger run off of one bank of cylinders, preferably the rear three - it would simplify installation. There's a European OEM (I think it's Saab) that has a similar setup on a factory V6, and it works incredibly well.

intresting idea... i hadn't thought about that type of system... but it sounds like it would work well especaly for mild boost... but wouldn't the engine not be as smooth as it is now having to "force" the air though one side and it just flows out the other... the bank w/ the turbo would need larger cams or something... or port work maybe? to get back the balanced feel?

nead idea still... hafta talk to some saab gurus and see how saab did it.

mark

[Jason Lesbirel]

When you consider that all the cylinders would be pressurized from the intake charge, it would negate any problems with only running the boost off of one bank.

Plus, there would be the added benefit of next-to-no turbo lag as a result - and if the header for the pressurized side was properly designed, no negative effects would present themselves as far as idle quality or low-rpm driveability is concerned.

The trick here is to use a small turbo - since it's a low-pressure system, a small turbo would present less resistance (due to it's size) because of it's ability to spool up much more quickly when compared to a larger 'charger.

And given that the 3.3l engine is not rev-happy, a small turbo would just add to the low-to-midrange power band, without adding power where the engine really can't run anyway - up high.

As an add-on idea, I think this would be the ideal way to go. More power where you need it, where you can use it, and with tons of reliablility due to the low-pressure being run.

Personally, I think this would be a good setup for all the GA V6s. A decent power boost, with excellent reliability and incredible flexibility.

Plus, let's face it - the plumbing is just simpler doing things this way.

[Jason Lesbirel]

AS a further note, it was Saab, and the engine is the 3.0l LPT (low pressure turbo) V6 available in the Saab 9-5 sedan.

[sublime922]

well now that i have a pretty damn good idea of what i would to do, the hard part is finding someone who will do it... then i have to have one side of the headers either modified or a new one made for the turbo....any more info on how this could be done would help.

[DominionTuner]

I'm no expert, but when i talked about runing a single turbo off 1 manifold off of a V6 everyone told me it was a bad idea. I don't know if Saab still uses that setup either. You have to look it if they stopped making that setup and why. I would mainly say that you would want the turbo close to the Downpipe. From looking at most Turbo manifolds, Custom and storebought. The Turbo sits near the end of the manifold close to the DP. A small turbo will still have almost no lag on a setup like this. You just need to find the right sized one.

[Jason Lesbirel]

The three-litre Light Pressure Turbo V6 is still available in the Saab 9-5 Sedan and Sportwagon, and although it's only been a preliminary search, I have been unable to find any derogatory info on that engine.

It's been my experience that some people like to bad-mouth stuff they don't have a full understanding of......... :agree:

[donalson]

i still love the sound of that system... almost makes me want to buy a FWD v6 car to "experment"

doesn't sound like the ulamate system but defanly a good way to package a low boost system for sure

mark

[sublime922]

but how much is that gonna end up costing to do? would it be an at home job or do i need to take it somewhere?

[donalson]

Originally posted by sublime922
but how much is that gonna end up costing to do? would it be an at home job or do i need to take it somewhere?

if i personly did it it wouldn't cost "THAT" much as i'd use a used turbo and have it rebuilt when it finaly totaly craped out, i'd make my own manifold and do the metal work myself and do the engine managment stuff myself also.

w/ all systems you'd obviously need the turbo and manifold, being that the manifold would only be for one bank it would be very easy to make a log manifold from steam pipe, it would also be likely that using the stock manifold and "coustomizing it" would be an option.

between the turbo (rebuilt) and the manifold it shouldn't cost more then about $400

next step is the charge pipes (including the IC and bov), depednding on what i chose to use to connect the pipes price would vary, but even done at it's cleanest all this wouldn't cost more then $300, IC would be a used one from a junkyard, and the bov would be the obvious 1st gen DSM as they are cheap and very well made... i do't care about no stinkin noise :)

the exhaust system would depend on what was already there, but as w/ most sotck exhaust systems it would prob be found in-adiquite, figure about $500 to have it replaced w/ a custom system... i'd prob ditch the cat and other emissions crap assuming the ecu dosen't have "issues" w/ that sort of thing (old cars have fewer issues then newer obdII cars and such)


next step is fuel managment and ignition control.... there are WAY to many options here... the ignition part is obvious an MSD btm (boost timing master) retards timing in accordance to much boost the box sees, mostly a safegaurd for when you get a crappy tank of gas and such... this will set ya back almost $200 but in a daily driver it's worth having... or you could step up to an active detonation sensing device which can cost up to about $400.

for fuel you have the opition of an FMU which in theroy is good to about 6 psi or so it increases fuel pressure at the fuel rail in praportion to the amount of boost it sees, crude at best.

next you have your little boxes (apex'i and greddy and such makes them) cost about $400 if i rember right, you'd need to to upgrade to a 2 bar map sensor, these seem to do well if your electronics permit and are very tunable.

the last option off the top of my head is using an extra injector controler http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html very simple yet effective... this would be my personal choice... i'd use a do it yourself at home system which would cost about $200 using junkyard injectors, a fuel pressure regulator from a boosted car, and the controler obviously.


now you also need to add a few hundred for the little things that always go wrong, or you forget about (like gaskets)

there are many variatons of ways to go for turbo... for A LOT more information check out the book Maximum boost by "corky bell" can be picked up for like $20 at books a million (online)

mark

[bryson]

As donalson was saying, a turbo system can cost under 1000$, depending on what parts you used. For example, the turbo system on my 2.8 Fiero cost close to nothing. It was a Warner-IHI turbo from a Ford Turbo Coupe, an intercooler from the same car, and a 1g Mistu BOV. The MSD 6BTM system was the only thing that was bought new. Fuel was the last thing that I didn't address before I fried my rings (160k on the engine, then turbocharging it). The boost tubes can be made of tubes from other random junkyard cars. The system won't be nice, but it's a system, and you can always tweak and upgrade things. It helps to know how to weld if you do it yourself, especially when making the downpipe go to the turbo. Another option to building a new manifold would be to cut the flange off the manifold from the turbocharger donor car and weld it onto your stock manifold (if space permits). This is how the first turbo system on the Fiero was, and although I was quite satisfied, the one I'm building now will be a little more money, but not as much as if I were to buy a kit. Hope this helps a little,
--Bryson

[Antalive[DM]]

Originally posted by Jason Lesbirel
The three-litre Light Pressure Turbo V6 is still available in the Saab 9-5 Sedan and Sportwagon, and although it's only been a preliminary search, I have been unable to find any derogatory info on that engine.

It's been my experience that some people like to bad-mouth stuff they don't have a full understanding of......... :agree:



:D Agreed, now explain, if i run this off of one bank does it supply a certain amount of boost to a certain amount of cylinders or does it still spread evenly? OR does "bank" mean just one header. I sound stupid in that catagory because I have never encountered saab set ups. So pls bare with me. :lol:

[donalson]

to me sounds like one exhaust manifold has a turbo on it... and the other has a normal exhaust manifold... so the turbo is only getting spooled w/ 1/2 the motor (3cyl in this case)... on something like the grand am this would be great as underhood area is minimal... one turbo off of one manifold and then the other manifold has it's own exhaust... from the rest i would guess it's a normal turbo setup... although i personaly don't have any real knowledge of the Saab setup

mark

[Antalive[DM]]

makes sence. :agree: