Buick or Pontiac one division may be gone in the near future

[XtremeGrandAm]

Well here is the article. The Saturn people are really enjoying this article. Which division do you guys think should go. http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P112987.asp?GT1=6301
General Motors, which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's (GM, news, msgs) Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands'' due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York.

But if some of its brands fail to meet sales projections, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out. I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got.''

Financial analysts have said for years that the world's largest automaker has too many brands to support, even with the gradual phase-out of the Oldsmobile brand a few years ago, particularly with its weaker U.S. sales.
Full article can be read in the above link

[rabidpanda69]

Dude buick either needs to totally start over or get out cuz all the cars look the same.

[rabidpanda69]

Quote: But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick


Guess I should read the article first :rolleyes:

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by rabidpanda69
Quote: But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick


Guess I should read the article first :rolleyes: Actually that money is for Buick and Pontiac's new models.

[Loopy]

When was the last time you heard anything about Isuzu? Isuzu could be phased out fairly painlessly...

[Gimli]

Originally posted by Loopy
When was the last time you heard anything about Isuzu? Isuzu could be phased out fairly painlessly...

Yeah but Isuzu models are exact replicas of other brands, which would defeat the purpose of the move (to significantly reduce costs).

[Loopy]

Originally posted by Gimli
Yeah but Isuzu models are exact replicas of other brands, which would defeat the purpose of the move (to significantly reduce costs).

Except that it would eliminate alot of overhead and an entire level of management.

[jayhawk]

One or the other is considered to be phased out, yet they kept Saturn, of which virtually every product is garbage. Let me repeat what Saturns "quality" is:

ABSOLUTE JUNK.

[backwash]

Maybe they should look at removing their interests in Saab, Daewoo, or Subaru. If they sold of their various percentages in the international brands, perhaps they could keep their long standing, core brands together.

I don't think that anyone would mourn the loss of the Aveo or a 9-3.

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by jayhawk
One or the other is considered to be phased out, yet they kept Saturn, of which virtually every product is garbage. Let me repeat what Saturns "quality" is:

ABSOLUTE JUNK.
You know there would have been a time I would disagree with you, but now I agree 100% The people at saturnfans want Pontiac to go just because they know that pontiac is better than their cars.All they can ever say is Pontiac's are so ugly. Yeah, the ION sedan and quad coupe really look so much better......maybe if your an 80 year old lady.

[XtremeGrandAm]

The latest from GM (detroit news reports)
General Motors Corp.'s top sales executive assured alarmed dealers Thursday that the automaker has no plans to kill one of its U.S. brands a day after Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said GM could "phase out" some struggling nameplates if sales continue to fall.

"We are not discussing or planning the elimination of any of our brands," Mark LaNeve, GM's sales and marketing chief for North America, told dealers in an e-mail Thursday. "On the contrary, we're investing more heavily than ever on new products and marketing programs."

GM's U.S. sales and market share have dropped sharply this year, prompting a new round of cost reductions and speculation among analysts that one of its eight North American brands -- Oldsmobile is already being phased out -- will be dropped. Though they remain profitable, Buick and Pontiac, which have seen sales steadily drop for 20 years, have been mentioned as candidates.

Lutz said Wednesday that if "damaged brands" such as Buick and Pontiac failed to achieve sales targets, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out."

Lutz added: "I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got."

Along with Buick and Pontiac, GM's U.S. brands include Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC, Hummer, Saab and Saturn.

LaNeve told The Detroit News Thursday that Lutz's comments were "absolutely misinterpreted" by the press.

"It's important to set the record straight," LaNeve said. "GM is investing in all of its brands."

While LaNeve said there are no plans to drop a division, he said GM will slim down a brand's offerings if necessary to focus marketing efforts and other costs on promising products.

"If there has to be four or five (models) ... as opposed to nine or 10, I'll make that trade-off," he said.

LaNeve promised the company would "reignite Pontiac's muscular design and street credibility" and build Buick as a brand with vehicles that are the "quietest and highest-quality."

Dealers welcomed LaNeve's memo, but it may not be enough to stem the shock of Lutz's remarks.

"They got dealers scared to death," said Phil Shostack, sales manager at Jim Fresard Pontiac-Buick in Royal Oak. "It sent shockwaves. We're spending gobs of money (to expand), and to lose a franchise? Are you kidding?"

Rochester Hills Buick-Pontiac dealer Russ Shelton called Lutz's remarks "extremely upsetting" since he's also contemplating an expansion.

"Why did (Lutz's comments) happen in the first place?" he asked.

GM's U.S. market share has dropped from 45 percent in 1980 to 27.3 percent last year, and it has been forced to close several North American assembly plants. Despite a major overhaul in the 1990s, it was forced to drop Oldsmobile.

Pontiac sales dropped to 474,179 last year, well below the nearly 800,000 units it sold 20 years ago, and sales of Buick vehicles have fallen from a high of 941,000 in 1984 to 309,639 units last year.

Several new GM models have struggled, and the automaker has been forced to cut production to reduce inventories.

"Most alarming for Pontiac -- although their new models created hype, they still require a lot of incentives to keep them moving," Edmunds.com sales analyst Jesse Toprak said. "The G6 (sedan) has been out only 6 months and already has over $3,600 per unit in incentives on it. That's a lot."

J.D. Power and Associates sales analyst Jeff Brodoski said a recent analysis by the market research firm doesn't support a move by GM to excise any brands.

"We have all the GM brands going strong in our forecasts," said Brodoski. "A lot of them are adding vehicles, and we still see a lot of product activity."

The slow sales start by some of GM's newly launched vehicles reflects an oversaturated marketplace, Brodoski said. By the end of the year there will be about 300 different vehicles available in the United States, compared with about 220 five years ago, he said.

Brodoski said coupe and convertible versions of the Pontiac G6, and the new two-seat convertible Solstice, will help Pontiac in the near term.

But analyst Erich Merkle at IRN Inc. in Grand Rapids said GM "has far too many divisions to support right now with their current resources."

GM warned last week it will report a first-quarter loss and that 2005 profits will fall as much as 80 percent.

Jim McTevia, chairman of Eastpointe corporate turnaround specialists McTevia and Associates, believes Pontiac and Buick have about run their course despite new models, and that given GM's sinking financial fortunes, the automaker needs to adjust its vehicle portfolio to match the needs of a changing marketplace.

[DontPassTheFence]

Saab, Isuzu, and Saturn need to all die. Quickly and painlessly. Who wants a 9-3, or an Ion, or a pathetic whatever Isuzu makes... Uselesssss

[Loopy]

I actually like Saab, and would love to have a 9-3 turbo convertible. That's a pretty sexy car! I'd still like to see Isuzu go, and possibly Hummer.

[Loopy]

I mean the commercial portion of Hummer - not the government supported business.

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by Loopy
I actually like Saab, and would love to have a 9-3 turbo convertible. That's a pretty sexy car! I'd still like to see Isuzu go, and possibly Hummer.
I agree I love the saab 93 convertible and the hardtop. Saab actually has a very loyal following, just not enough of them.

[Prospeeder]

well look at ford, holy cow, they have 3 normal companys, Ford, Mercury, and Mazda, the rest are land rover, Aston martin, jaguar, wtf, that have the worst ideas, u make money off of super selling cars, not 100k cars that 1-3 people buy every year if that, and Pontiac better not go, thats one of there best companys, Saturn is going pontiac replica, and izuzu is dead, buick is getting back together, chevrolet NEVER, impossible to get rid of chevy, chevy is practicly what GM is, when people think of GM, boom chevy enters there mind, Saab is cool, Vaxhaul, Holden, HSV all need dropped, what a waste, i hope Pontiac stays, its my favorite car company

[Pte Socks]

I think Gm ran into a problem this year with introducing their vehicle lineup. ONe thing ive noticed very heavily is the advertising for new Gm and particularly, pontiac cars. IMO, I will always stick to a GA over a G6. Im sorry, I love the idea of the G6 GTP engine, but thats it. I feel in love with this car and only this car. Im talking the 99-05 GA's. Ive loved them since the first day I saw one. I didnt like any GA before that and I dont like any GA (or G6 if you prefer ) after it. Im sorry, but what set this car apart from the rest was the styling, pure and simple. And it sold. It sold well. Ive seen more 99+ GA's than any other, and I know it made profits. What ever happened to all automakers? All of a sudden, in 2005, they changed the styling of almost all cars. I hate the styling on the new cars. I hate the accords, I dont like the G6's, I hate the monte carlos's ( made in the late 90's I know but still), I hate the Crysler 300's, the new dodge trucks and SUV's, the 350z's and on and on. IMO, they needed to make the same styling impressions in the G6 as they did with the 99+ GA. IMO, they didnt, and its going to hurt them. I love the 3.9L because it has a cool innovation ( the DOD and VVTi) and I love its higher output, but besides that, I dont like the cars at all. Thats my little rant.

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
I think Gm ran into a problem this year with introducing their vehicle lineup. ONe thing ive noticed very heavily is the advertising for new Gm and particularly, pontiac cars. IMO, I will always stick to a GA over a G6. Im sorry, I love the idea of the G6 GTP engine, but thats it. I feel in love with this car and only this car. Im talking the 99-05 GA's. Ive loved them since the first day I saw one. I didnt like any GA before that and I dont like any GA (or G6 if you prefer ) after it. Im sorry, but what set this car apart from the rest was the styling, pure and simple. And it sold. It sold well. Ive seen more 99+ GA's than any other, and I know it made profits. What ever happened to all automakers? All of a sudden, in 2005, they changed the styling of almost all cars. I hate the styling on the new cars. I hate the accords, I dont like the G6's, I hate the monte carlos's ( made in the late 90's I know but still), I hate the Crysler 300's, the new dodge trucks and SUV's, the 350z's and on and on. IMO, they needed to make the same styling impressions in the G6 as they did with the 99+ GA. IMO, they didnt, and its going to hurt them. I love the 3.9L because it has a cool innovation ( the DOD and VVTi) and I love its higher output, but besides that, I dont like the cars at all. Thats my little rant.
While agree with you complelty about the styling of the 99+ GA. The automakers changed the cars because they were no longer selling in the volumes that they needed them to sell. The Grand AM since its redesign in 99 was a top selling GM car. Unfortunently their lack of updates to the refinement of the vehicle is what killed its sales. But you are right the G6 doesnt stand out like the last generation grand am's did to me, and that really is a shame.

[Night Wolf]

yeah, there will not be any more brand killing....

I still can't get over the fact that they dropped Oldsmobile... that was a major shame, and there were plenty of other brands that should have went...

the problem is (was) that they had 1 car, sold under 4 different companys.... like there was a big difference between a 1997 Cutlass and a 1997 Malibu.... the only car specific to Olds (as of late) was the Aruroa... and that was a sweet car.....

Saturn, Saab and some of the other mentioned brands could go.... Buick has to start doing something or they are down down too.....

It seems like Cadillac is the only div. of GM that is truely pushing ahead and running full steam with all they have got....

[thegeswho3]

At leat GM is trying. Theve put out or are producing new models in Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn and Saab within the last year or two. These are completely new models, not just re-designs or re badging. I personally like all of the new models oin some way. Most of what they are producing is either fun, or enters tha market of the other crap that sels in America.

[tgd]

I think if any should go it should be Isuzu. Pontiac is one of the strongest brands
next to Chevorlet. Pontiac being the affordable performance brand needs to stir
up some Excitment !

[b2089]

Originally posted by Loopy
Except that it would eliminate alot of overhead and an entire level of management.

That and if it's exact replicas then the people who like them would be easier to persued to buy the same car with a different badge. When they can something unique and different they have a problem. When they end the rebadging then they just have to explain it.

[b2089]

I mean no disrespect to Sunfire owners, but I think that Pontiac lost it's way with that car and the Aztec. They forgot performance when they made those. Pontiac isn't about cheap soccermom mobiles. We all need those daily drivers yes, but it isn't pontiacs mainstay. Maybe if they offered one or the other to keep us in the same brand, but not both and then the Vibe and Montana. When half the line is soccer mom, and the other half is watered down performance, they will suffer. Now that they've got the GTO and Solstice, as well as hot rodded their other cars, they can recover.

I hate to see the boneville go. To me the new bons are perfection in sheet metal. It's style and class that no other Pontiac has, and performance also.

The problem with the GTO was too much press about the 05. Who wants to buy a car that is inferier to what it will be in 6 months.