Will a strut brace help me (bodyflex issue)

[b2089]

Hello,

I have an 03GT that seems to have an odd amount of body flex. It creaks and groans going over bumps and sometimes just turning. It sounds like an old man trying to get out of bed or something.

I've read that the strut brace helps firm up the cars geometry. I'm not a racer at all and I'm fine with the way the car handles, I just want to end this creak and groan. It can't be good for the car to flex so much and it is really unnerving.

I was thinking just a front brace. I think the creaking is in the fender area and sometimes around the sunroof possible.

[nice96gt]

I don't know if all of your creaks and moans you are talking about is coming just from the body flex, but strut braces will definitely help with body flex. I have both front and rear bars and they are awesome. The handling is much better and you will notice the difference right away. Personally though, I would go with front and rear if you are going to do it.

[Oldcat]

I agree. Get both and you will notice an improved firmness in the body. They were my first mod.

[b2089]

It probably isn't as bad as I make it sound, but it sounds like body flex to me. It's hard to tell though. It's mostly when going into places that have dips at the end of the parking lot, or over speed bumps.

I was always told that if your struts are good then you can bounce the car and it'll stop after 2 bounces, or after 1 for firm suspension. Well I can't bounce my car at all, I weigh 135 lbs and all my wieght barely moves the car. Maybe that's part of it. The GT's must have really firm front struts. The back isn't as firm.

I've heard that the brace rubs the hood sometimes and that it covers the brake resevoir. That isn't good.

[nice96gt]

Sounds to me like it's a suspensin issue for the noise (struts, mounts, springs). Any one of those could be causeing that squeek you are talking about.

RSM Racing makes braces for your year and you shouldn't have any issues with clearance. I have them on my '96 and have no issues at all. :)

Definitely money well spent

[Ishan]

nope, they don't cover anything or rub anything, I have front and rear rsm braces, same model car.

[b2089]

Well I wanted a second opnion since the noise was so prevalant. It turns out that I was hearing a combination of two noises, a chatter and a squeek. The chatter was my wheels. The lug covers were loose. Aparently the center cap or the covers themselves were chattering.

The squeek was described by him as the sound of the springs loading and unloading, and it occurs in corners, not over bumps (that was the chatter). It's also associated with minor body roll on long sweeping turns, but isn't constant. I still think it's body flex, but I'm not very objective. My car is under warranty so I'll probably make the dealership look it over one day next week. I've got one of those three month 3000 mile warranties. The car is gm certified so I don't expect it to be a problem, probably just a characteristic of the new cars.

[AznGA]

People with STB's -

When do you notice the improvement? When you are going straight and after hitting bumps? Or when you make turns?

[nice96gt]

Originally posted by AznGA
People with STB's -

When do you notice the improvement? When you are going straight and after hitting bumps? Or when you make turns?

Turning, for example, on an onramp onto the highway. I can take them at about 20-30mp/h faster now. Obviously depending on the sharpness of the curve. Also at higher speeds if you are changing lanes quickly there is more control. That's what I find anyways.

If I was lowered and upgraded all the bushings to poly then it would be much better. A sway bar on my '96 would help but it would help way more on the 99+ because of the independent suspension.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by AznGA
People with STB's -

When do you notice the improvement? When you are going straight and after hitting bumps? Or when you make turns?

Like mentioned, while turning. Not so much that mine turned any harder or better with my STB's, but felt more stable while doing so. Hard to explain, but it just has better geometry, and won't give you the feeling of the car fighting back as much. Gives you a slight more ability to put the car where you want the car, and not just go along for the ride.

[Pte Socks]

Does anyone know much about the actual chassis on a 99+ GA? Like how stiff it is or how you can increase stiffness? I know my car has a ton of body roll and with 183K kms on it, the chassis and suspension has got to be feeling the strain. Just wondering what I should look at to improve it ( besides the usual Sways, struts, eurathane mounts )

[erimar77]

Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
Just wondering what I should look at to improve it ( besides the usual Sways, struts, eurathane mounts )

Uh, that's like all there is

sway bars
strut tower braces
struts
strut mounts
tires
polyurethane bushings

[SPECIALGAGT]

I got a stock rear sway off of a 1997 Buick Skylark. Has anyone ever put on on a GA GT on these pages? Mine looks like I'll need to install some minimal mounting pads. Whassup?

[SPECIALGAGT]

If one were to afix a telescoping 2-piece bar from the left and the right shock-towers on the front or rear of their car, and mark the position where the smaller dia tube inserts into the larger, how much measurable movement would there actually be after running a strong gymkhana or road course?? Anyone actually done this?? I'm wondering how much "improvement" is mental vs actual, or "I felt" vs "I measured". The front bar seems plausible, but the rear seems useless, especially since one can barely see the installation - - and isn't that the point?? Anyone ??

[DontPassTheFence]

Id say squeaks/groans over bumps sounds like a front suspension travel issue. check all bushings, check bump stops, strut mounts for inconsistancies or broken parts or dirt. Might just need some lubrication, but may be worse.

For body flex (which grand ams dont have a whole lot of unless you are autocrossing) I reccomend subframe braces, stiffer/bigger sway bars, and the strut tower bars. Those all will all stiffen up the chassis. (well the sways will decrease body/suspension lean under hard cornering a bit better than STBs will)

[b2089]

Well I was told that it wasn't body flex that it was somewhere in the suspsension. After a week of "looking" they replaced some parts, torqued others and probably greased the whole shebang. The noise went away for a year, it's back now. It sounds like body flex but is localized at all four corners.

This is what they replaced. Should I revisit anything or is there anything they missed?

----------------------------------------
SEAT AND/OR INSULATOR, FRONT SPRING (UPPER AND/OR LOWER) -, INSULATOR AND/OR BRACKET, FRONT STABILIZER SHAFT AT FRAME, STRUT, FRONT - RIGHT - REPLACE

[DontPassTheFence]

I cant make sense of that dealership/mechanic mumbo-jumbo... But it looks like they replaced one strut?

Id say spring seats and end links then... most likely its one of those 2

[b2089]

Someone else had recomeneded bushings, but I don't know what bushings or where they might be. I'm not going back to the Chevy place, I'm looking for a decent front end specialist. The dealership lost my confidence on this one.

My current solution is to turn the radio on when I'm going over uneven terrain.

I don't know if this helps or just complicates things, but last year the car creaked all the time, even on gentle curves in the road. Now it creaks much louder, but only on uneven roads or on one road that is gritty. It's made by throwing gravel on tar and the gravels smooth out to make a high grit road.

[Grandamn]

lol i have the same problem my friend. mine you can actually see right between the top of the rear window and the door.theres a crease. unfortunatly the ga is a very week car especially the 4 door (more flex) and dont try to get rid of it either. the resale will haunt you

[slowbird]

STB's will help some with body roll. (not the Megan racing ones)

"Body Flex" itself probably won't be fixed by anything short of a Roll cage.
Though I think our issues are more suspension orriented then body.

[Vhrus]

If you don't have a STB get one.
I did a "test" before installing one on my cavalier, I took a corner doing 50kmph, then drove home and installed the STB and went back and took the same corner at the same speed.

Difference was very noticable, without the STB you could hear the front tires squeeling and feel the front end start to slide as the strut towers flexed.
20 minutes later with the STB on the exact same corner at the exact same speed there was no squeeling of the front tires, and the little bit of slide was noticably reduced.

Its amazing how flimsy those strut towers actually are once you start applying sideways pressure to them.

I wouldn't say it's a magic handling god, but for the cost and ease of installation I would say a STB is definatly your best bang for your buck (although I doubt it will quiet any cabin noise, slowing down for speed bumps should help with that :P )

[Dave C]

Originally posted by slowbird
STB's will help some with body roll. (not the Megan racing ones)

"Body Flex" itself probably won't be fixed by anything short of a Roll cage.
Though I think our issues are more suspension orriented then body.


:???: I'm not sure if that is exactly true.


STB's are attached to the strut towers, which is a part of the body. therefore they would work to prevent the body from flexing/deforming. whereas stiffer anti-sway bars would help with body roll, as they directly link both sides of the suspension.

even with a roll cage, there is body flex. they put a value to it for race cars, torsional rigidity I believe.


see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strut_bar
or
http://e30m3performance.com/myths/Strutbar_Theory/strut_bar_theory.htm

[ltpats]

"and dont try to get rid of it either. the resale will haunt you"

What do you mean by that?

[Rayz]

Originally posted by b2089
I don't know if this helps or just complicates things, but last year the car creaked all the time, even on gentle curves in the road. Now it creaks much louder, but only on uneven roads or on one road that is gritty. It's made by throwing gravel on tar and the gravels smooth out to make a high grit road.
Buy the STB put in on if you don't think it works just keep it or sell it. :)

[nice96gt]

Originally posted by ltpats
"and dont try to get rid of it either. the resale will haunt you"

What do you mean by that?

You know this thread is a month old...but whatever.

If you buy one new from say RSM and then try to sell it you will not get your money back that's for sure. That's all he probably meant. I would look for a used one if possible. Or say a RACTIVE one since they are less expensive.