Well, I have been hit by the leaky "LIM Bug" ...

[99GrandAMSE]

... and I am planning to have them done over the next week or so (still negotiating with GM to see if they will assist in having them replaced being this will be the second replacement and the car has under 30,000 miles). Anyway, I have a couple questions with respect to what everyone's opinions are on ...

#1 ~ what gaskets have people been using? Should I stick with the 'newest' version of GM or should I go for a set of Felpro? I believe that I will go for the Felpro being these are what we have used on some other engine rebuilds without any problems.

#2 ~ according to the latest TSB on this problem, unless I mistaken there is also a call to change the bolts? Anyone do this or has there been additional research indicating this was/is useless?

#3 ~ obviously, I will be flushing the coolant system but what should I refill it with? Any thoughts on whether or not I should stick with the Dexcool or go with some Prestone?

... thanks in advance for any opinions but I don't expect too many problems; although, it is annoying that I have to do this in the first place but I guess I didn't really expect to get away with it no leaking so it might as well do it now :lol:

[kickarsgrdam01]

ummm...people have said different things but the problem isn't so much the gasket as the engine itself, the manifolds are aluminum and the heads are steal so they heat up and cool down ( expand and contrast) at different rates which puts lots of wear and tear on the gasket no matter what kind it is.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
... and I am planning to have them done over the next week or so (still negotiating with GM to see if they will assist in having them replaced being this will be the second replacement and the car has under 30,000 miles). Anyway, I have a couple questions with respect to what everyone's opinions are on ...

#1 ~ what gaskets have people been using? Should I stick with the 'newest' version of GM or should I go for a set of Felpro? I believe that I will go for the Felpro being these are what we have used on some other engine rebuilds without any problems.

#2 ~ according to the latest TSB on this problem, unless I mistaken there is also a call to change the bolts? Anyone do this or has there been additional research indicating this was/is useless?

#3 ~ obviously, I will be flushing the coolant system but what should I refill it with? Any thoughts on whether or not I should stick with the Dexcool or go with some Prestone?

... thanks in advance for any opinions but I don't expect too many problems; although, it is annoying that I have to do this in the first place but I guess I didn't really expect to get away with it no leaking so it might as well do it now :lol:

When my LIM replacement was done at 20,000 miles, I was just in time for the "new" fix. So far everythings good at 54,000 miles. And I drive like I stole it.

[Jibo]

you too eh kel :shake:

guess I did pretty well, have had the car for about 80000 KM's myself and am just now having to get this done, still a pita though :(

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by kickarsgrdam01
ummm...people have said different things but the problem isn't so much the gasket as the engine itself, the manifolds are aluminum and the heads are steal so they heat up and cool down ( expand and contrast) at different rates which puts lots of wear and tear on the gasket no matter what kind it is.

... true but the different design gasket do offer different degrees of sealing benefits ... I do appreciate your thoughts :)

[92CamaroRS]

Kelly, go with the Fel-Pro gaskets, they are a teflon coated gasket, so since the head and intake expand and contract at different rates, it allows they surfaces to slide past each other without ripping the gasket.

[99GrandAMSE]

... I think that I have all but 100% decided to go with Felpro as that is what I have the majority have used :)

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
... I think that I have all but 100% decided to go with Felpro as that is what I have the majority have used :)

then what did you ask for!:loser:

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by 92CamaroRS
then what did you ask for!:loser:

... because I wasn't entirely certain and wanted ideas ... that is the reason for a forum is it not?! :wink4: :slap:

[JoeyK]

Just out of curiosity, incase it happens to mine someday.. what are the symptoms? Can you hear it squealing, pulling in air like some? Also I assume it gets really sluggish?

[99GrandAMSE]

... none of the above, you actually see if leaking down the wide of the head (in my case anyway) ... right under the TB about half way between the inner and outer edge of the gasket between the LIM and the head, you can see a 'coolant drip' ... the same could happen to any of the for corners and in worse cases, it leaks into the oil :(

[Colin]

If you're getting it done at the 'stealership' they should use the revised GM gaskets and bolts (which have thread locker on them) anyway . There is also a new torque spec to go along with these . If you do it yourself , get the Felpro set and either use the old bolts with thread locker or get the new ones for extra peace of mind .

[nice96gt]

^:agree: yep Colin basically covered what I was gonna say.

[RocketFast321]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Just out of curiosity, incase it happens to mine someday.. what are the symptoms? Can you hear it squealing, pulling in air like some? Also I assume it gets really sluggish?
General area
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/9850/f4wdscf1411.jpg

[4kQuad]

My thought is people love to grip about things that fail on them. Have you ever heard anyone grip about felpro?

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by 4kQuad
My thought is people love to grip about things that fail on them. Have you ever heard anyone grip about felpro?

No :)

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by Colin
If you're getting it done at the 'stealership' they should use the revised GM gaskets and bolts (which have thread locker on them) anyway . There is also a new torque spec to go along with these . If you do it yourself , get the Felpro set and either use the old bolts with thread locker or get the new ones for extra peace of mind .

Thanks Colin ... we think alike :) ... it appears that I will doing these myself as I haven't heard back from the dealer ... the only reason I had considered having a dealer do them was for a 'specific point' being my car has had them done before and being my car has such low mileage ... no big deal, they will be as good as new before the Albany meet :)

[Riley1123d]

Wow I still find it hard to believe that's happened to you twice, and you have under 30,000 miles. With 75,000 miles on my car I always wonder when it's gonna happen. ::knock on wood::

[rixGAphx]

1. Calarification:
Our heads are NOT steel!!
They are cast aluminum, same as the LIM, the UIM, the Valve Covers, and the Timing Chain Cover.
The block is cast iron.

2. IMO, the ONLY reason to use proven-to-be-a-problem DexCool is to reap the benefits of extended life (150k vs. 100k miles between coolant flushes).
* Nobody on this board has ever gone 50k miles without MAJOR cooling system dump of all coolant, either thru blown watepump, leaky LIMS, boilover, or whatever.
Why use DexCool if the 'container' (engine/hoses/radiator/heatercore/etc.) is going to fail?
* For the benefit of the environment, consider using 'Sierra' brand of polypropylene-based antifreeze, which doesn't poison dogs as does 'orange' or 'green' stuff.

3. Kelly-
Who did the first LIM gasket replacement?
If it was the dealership, shouldn't that work have a 'Mr. Goodwrench lifetime warranty'?

Good luck.
-Rick

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
... Who did the first LIM gasket replacement?
If it was the dealership, shouldn't that work have a 'Mr. Goodwrench lifetime warranty'?

... it was done under new car warranty at around 6,000 Kilometres (~4,000 miles) so when the warranty lapsed, so did the warranty on that specific repair ... the funny part is the car came with the standard 3 year / 60,000 Kilometres "Bumper-to-Bumper" warranty and I am still only at 47,000 Kilometres (~29,000 miles) but of course the car is 5-1/2 years old (went into service October, 1999) ... don't get me wrong, I love my GA and I appreciate GM and their dealership network but I also would expect SOMEONE to "stand up" and take a close look at helping me due to the history involved being is was already fixed once and my car has "no mileage" :( ... anyway, it will be fixed regardless of who does it :)

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
... it was done under new car warranty .... I also would expect SOMEONE to "stand up" ....
I hear you.

I teach a class in Construction Documents (plans, specifications).
People, particularly building Owners who have just paid MILLIONS for their new facility, think that warranties are there to protect THEM.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
Warranties are LIMITATIONS on the manufacturer's/builder's responsibilities in case of failure.
And since all that fine print was written by slime-bucket attorneys, it invariably favors the manufacturer/builder and screws the customer/owner.

* * * *
On another aspect of the LIM gasket replacement:
One of my neighbors saw a TV news segment within the past couple weeks, 20-20 or 60 Minutes or some such.
the subject was GM V-6's and the prevalence of the LIM gasket failure.
My neighbor recollected that GM was stepping up to the plate with some kind of rebate offer to those who've had the procedure performed.
I haven't been able to find any more info about that segment.

Good luck.
-Rick

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by rixGAphx

* Nobody on this board has ever gone 50k miles without MAJOR cooling system dump of all coolant, either thru blown watepump, leaky LIMS, boilover, or whatever.
Why use DexCool if the 'container' (engine/hoses/radiator/heatercore/etc.) is going to fail?

-Rick [/B]

I'm over 74,000 mi. I have had no problems yet. And at times I too drive it like I stole it. It's one of the most trouble free cars I've ever owned & I've owned alot of them. Guess I'm lucky.:)

[voyager]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
* Nobody on this board has ever gone 50k miles without MAJOR cooling system dump of all coolant, either thru blown watepump, leaky LIMS, boilover, or whatever.


*ahem*

i went 80,000mi between the waterpump failure and the heater core... with no other mechanical issues inbetween.

i also replaced my LIM for no good reason ( head swap ) at 180k miles after having the original replaced at 90k miles. it was fine, kinda felt dumb having spent the mone on it when i took off the manifold... well not really, but you know what i'm saying.

=)

some engines last.

[99GrandAMSE]

... NOBODY might be a stretch but I am certainly confident in saying that failure is common enough that I feel it isn't necessarily a matter of IF but instead, a matter of WHEN ... the plan is to repair this on Sunday :)

[Gimli]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
2. IMO, the ONLY reason to use proven-to-be-a-problem DexCool is to reap the benefits of extended life (150k vs. 100k miles between coolant flushes).

I'm sorry Rick but I've got to raise the :bsflag: on this one. Please provide these proofs you speak of because I've never seen them.

ALL GM vehicles have been using DexCool for almost (or is it over?) 10 years, if DexCool was ever proven to be a problem they wouldn't still be using it.

[Colin]

Originally posted by Gimli
I'm sorry Rick but I've got to raise the :bsflag: on this one. Please provide these proofs you speak of because I've never seen them. I've read alot about Dex Cool since acquiring my GA and havn't found anything but heresay and speculation about it . I think it's more about the design of the engine and gaskets and neglect of maintenance than the coolant .

[99GrandAMSE]

... I bought 16L of Prestone today to replace all of the coolant but now I am having second thoughts that I may just fill up what I remove with new 'red' stuff ... guess I think about it some more and decide at the last moment :lol:

[XoticGA]

I hope I don't get this problem :nervous:

[99GrandAMSE]

... OK, so now I have everything that I need ... bought new FelPro gaskets today ... got (8) new LIM bolts per GM new design ... got enough Prestone for a complete change out should I decide to completely get rid of the 'red stuff' and then ... I have a complete new Mobil1 oil change and filter when I am all done :) ... hopefully, be back up and running sometime Monday :) being I am not going to be rushing as I don't want to mark or scratch anything on the car :)

[Colin]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
... I bought 16L of Prestone today to replace all of the coolant Cooling system cap is about 13 L , so if mixed 50/50 with water you won't even need half of that .

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by Colin
Cooling system cap is about 13 L , so if mixed 50/50 with water you won't even need half of that .

I bought the premixed stuff as it is the only 'stuff' that technically said it was compatible with the Dexcool and being I didn't think I would have been able to get every last drop of the 'red stuff' out, I wanted whatever I put it to be compatible :)

Anyway, well underway and getting everything replaced and back up and running :)

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=44742