LIM fixed ... almost!!

[99GrandAMSE]

Well, Dad and I had a busy day today :) ... started at 10:00 this morning and started on replacing the lower intake gaskets ... all proceeded great until 'almost' the very end ... no big deal though, just have to get a new fuel rail inlet o-ring which started leaking live a sieve but other than that, she is all done or at least will be tomorrow after about an hour or so to put the upper intake back on, plus, flush and refill the cooling system (I want to remove all the Dexcool as I was not impressed with how much corrosion under the gaskets and I believe the Dexcool is the cause) and change the oil :) ... anyway, here are some quick pictures to give you the idea of how in depth this repair is ... basically, it isn't a real hard job but is certainly takes time (if it weren't for the leaky o-ring, the entire job probably would have only taken about 5 hours), mechanical knowledge and definitely some patience :)

Once again, getting ready to operate :lol:
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_01.jpg

Draining the engine coolant
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_02.jpg

Upper intake manifold was easy to remove
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_03.jpg

Fuel rail, power steering pump and alternator removed
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_04.jpg

Getting deeper and deeper ... front valve cover removed
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_05.jpg

Thank you MacPhee Pontiac for your 'PATHETIC Warranty Work' and rounding off a back valve cover bolt :pissed2:
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_06.jpg

Lower intake manifold removed ... hello internals!! :)
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_07.jpg

Push rods being removed in order to remove factory gaskets :(
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_08.jpg

You MUST keep the push rods in their same location and orientation
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_09.jpg

Voila ... cracked gasket (annoying part is where this was, it wasn't leaking there) ... determined the actual cause for my leaks was the garbage service work MacPhee Pontiac does being the majority of the intake bolts were only finger tight :omg:
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_10.jpg

New FelPro gaskets :woohoo:
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_11.jpg

Lower intake going back on
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_12.jpg

Fuel rail and valve covers back on
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_13.jpg

Getting closer :D
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_14.jpg

CAI back on and power steering pump in the process of being installed
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_15.jpg

All done but going to pressure test the fuel system and flush coolant with water
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_16.jpg

DYAM, fuel leak ... back apart :tears:
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_17.jpg

The fuel rail inlet side :(
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_18.jpg

... and the culprit :pissed2:
http://www.gaownersclub.com/kbruce/lim/lim_gasket_fix_19.jpg

Oh well ... I'll pick an o-ring up tomorrow and we'll put everything back together again after checking for leaks :D

(Thanks to my Dad for the help!!!)

[Gimli]

Looking good Kel, although I'm still not sure if I'd ever do mine myself. My biggest turnoff is that I don't have a second vehicle to pick up extra parts if anything ever goes wrong...

Maybe you'd like to visit Ottawa some time...? :D

[99GrandAMSE]

... I don't know if I would have tackled it on my own but Dad did a 3100 a couple weeks ago and of course, they are almost the same ... it really isn't all that hard but if it weren't for Dad wanting for us to do it ourselves, I probably would have continued to BITCH at GM for them to stand up and admit they screwed up on my car (actually, now that we took this apart, the reason it was leaking wasn't actually a problem of GMs or their 'normal' failure with intakes but instead, the $hitty workmanship of a local dealer with did the gaskets when the car has 6000KMs on it) ... amazing really how a great number of supposedly torqued bolts were ONLY finger tight including a couple intake bolts and even several bolts/nuts they left off completely simply because they were in a tough spot to get to ... if I cared to be involved with that dealer anymore, I would have a couple words for them :pissed2:

[Colin]

if I cared to be involved with that dealer anymore, I would have a couple words for them Flat rate hachet job comes to mind ....:(

[3100gagt]

yea i see some of what i dont want to but with torque specs what ever my 1/4 air ratchet gets it to is what it stays at.

[Rayz]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
amazing really how a great number of supposedly torqued bolts were ONLY finger tight including a couple intake bolts and even several bolts/nuts they left off completely simply because they were in a tough spot to get to ... if I cared to be involved with that dealer anymore, I would have a couple words for them :pissed2:
Don't be to pissed off at the mechanic, when I replaced the LIM gaskets on my 99 Malibu some of the bolts were also finger tight and the Malibu was like that from the factory!

The latest greatest fix from the factory is not a new design gasket but a new sealant for the bolts. With their inadequate numbers, small diameter, and the expansion and contraction of the aluminum heads. They really don’t stand a chance of holding the gasket seal. IMHO It’s just a piss poor design that GM has been jury-rigging for years.

PS if you need a valve cover bolt let me know I’ll bring one to Albany.

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by Rayz
Don't be to pissed off at the mechanic, when I replaced the LIM gaskets on my 99 Malibu some of the bolts were also finger tight and the Malibu was like that from the factory! ...

I know Ray, I suspect some of this 'less torque' was probably due to simply to the change in expansion rates but out of the eight bolts, 5 of them were literally finger tight ... anyway, there is a history with MacPhee so I "want" to blame them :lol: ... as well, one of the three bolts holding the coil packs down wasn't there along with the bracket holding the alternator on :(

Originally posted by Rayz
... The latest greatest fix from the factory is not a new design gasket but a new sealant for the bolts. With their inadequate numbers, small diameter, and the expansion and contraction of the aluminum heads. They really don’t stand a chance of holding the gasket seal. IMHO It’s just a piss poor design that GM has been jury-rigging for years ...

The sealant on the bolts was a joke in my opinion as generally a mechanic would (or should) put sealant on those bolts but it was nice of GM to do it :lol: ... the annoying part to me was the cost, roughly $10CDN per bolt so I now have $80CDN worth of freaking bolts (I bought them because I didn't want to gave anyone the chance of telling me later the reason for a third failure was the bolts) ... the other 'new' thing they did Ray was change the procedure for torquing the lower intake as it used to be fully toque the verticals to 115 in-lbs, then, fully torque the diagonals to 18 ft-lbs but now, they changed it to torquing the verticals down to 62 in-lbs, doing the diagonals to 62 in-lbs, going back to verticals and torquing them to 115 in-lbs and finally, torquing the diagonals down to 18 ft-lbs ... this procedure makes more sense; although, time will tell if it make s a difference :)

Originally posted by Rayz
... PS if you need a valve cover bolt let me know I’ll bring one to Albany.

I was going to remove on from the front cover so when I got a replacement I could just do it in the front but they are sealed into the cover so I couldn't get it out ... I ended up putting it back on as tightening it was OK but should it ever have to come off again, I will have to use the same 'nut extractor' that I used this time :) ... if you know how to get them out of the cover and would care to bring me one or two, that would be awesome :)

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by 3100gagt
yea i see some of what i dont want to but with torque specs what ever my 1/4 air ratchet gets it to is what it stays at.

"Some of what you don't want to?" ... I don't understand :shrug: ... as a customer though, I think the use of a torque wrench would be better than saying "whatever my 1/4 air ratchet gets it to" :(

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by Colin
Flat rate hachet job comes to mind ....:(

Yes ... exactly ... pitiful, simply pitiful :(

[99GrandAMSE]

Oh, and to top it all off, the o-ring that I need is a "dealer item" and ...... are you ready for this ...... it costs $26CDN for a kit that has a SINGLE o-ring that I need plus one more just like it for the fuel regulator on the opposite side of the fuel rail :( ... somebody needs their head examined :lol: ... guess that will need me to be more careful next time and not 'nick' the o-ring putting it together :roflmfao:

[sunrunner_pei]

Kelly, what alternator bracket are you talking about?

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
Kelly, what alternator bracket are you talking about?

... there is a male threaded bolt at the passenger side back corner of the upper manifold that was 'used' before (had nut marked threaded down it) and there is a 'threaded hole' on the alternator where a bracket would be so I assumed there should have been one there ... technically, I have never seen this bracket but there definitely WAS something threaded on the 'bolt' before in the upper intake :shrug:

[Jibo]

:doh: looks like a decent job done kel, wanna come out and do mine? :lol:

Mines actually in getting fixed at the dealership right now, at first i was impressed they quoated about the best price to do the job, when i dropped it off this am i told them to go ahead and change the spark plugs and wires and the serpentine belt while they were at it

then they called me back to say the system needs a flush and itll cost 150 to do that, i almost told the girl to go f*** herself, ill take it to my folks and flush it out myself if it needs it, i mean really they had to drain the damn thing already, all id be paying is 150 for them to rinse it with a freaking hose and then refill it with dexcool, which they charge an arm and a leg for anyway, my thoughts is hey i have a bottle of it in the trunk, unopened cost me 13 bucks use that you bastards, argh

glad yours is fixed and hope mine doesnt need it again for another 80 thousand clicks hehe

[99GrandAMSE]

... to change the intake gaskets, a good portion of coolant needs to be drained anyway Blake (I think my easily drained 2 gallons or so simply by taking the drain plug out) so charging full price for a flush isn't fair, especially, since they will simply connect it to a machine anyway :( ... serpentine belt is all but off being you have to remove the alternator and power steering pump so changing that should 'almost' be free ... finally, the front three wires are removed and by the time the air plenum, valve covers and lower intake is off, changing the plugs, even the back ones, is a piece of cake so I think they should have been able to give you a GOOD price on it all :(

[99GrandAMSE]

... an update ... picked up the fuel rail o-ring today (what a total rip off that was, $26.00CDN for a 3/8" diameter o-ring :omg: ... simply amazing) ... anyway, replaced it and voilà, tight as a drum :) ... put everything back together and started the engine ... ran fine other than a SES light :shrug: :( ... we scratched our heads for a minute but after a quick survey, found we left the coolant temperature connector off :lol: ... plugged it back in, reset the code and everything was fine ... next, we filled the radiator with water to dilute the Dexcool and allowed it come up to temperature then drained it again, thus, removing even more of the old Dexcool in the attempt to get as much out as possible ... finally, filled the engine back up with fresh Prestone and will now allow the engine to cool until tomorrow so as to allow any air bubbles to work themselves out and for it to pressure properly ... everything else seems great as the intake gaskets are dry and the engine runs as quiet as normal ... all that is left after checking the coolant level tomorrow is to change the oil and filter ... a job well done :)

[Jibo]

update for ya Kelly and others, this dealership is a bunch of friggin crooks, called me for the coolant flush, told them no, ill do that myself thanks, then they called back saying my mass air flow sensor was messed up and they woudl have to get a new one in and change it tomorrow am, i asked how much she quoted 500 bucks, i said pardon me!, for what?!?!?!?!?, called my parts guy, he could get one for 70 bucks, called her back and said no, not gonna happen, she said "but its running really rough now" i said, well it wasnt this morning when i bourght it in, and no matter what, if that is the problem, i will do it for a heck of alot cheaper


so i go to get th car, pay for it, 1400 bucks for lim gasket, 6 plugs (they charged me 18 bucks a friggin plug) new wires, and no coolant flush, so i pay, the outrageous costs, and i go start my car, and it runs fine for me, so the tech comes up and says, oh well its the strangest thing, when he brought it in, it started working fine.......


fine my ass, i am betting nothign was wrong with it, they just wanted to soak so more money out of me, also the mechanic who fixed and corrected the car "test drove it" a good 60+{ killometers, and wasted a good portion of a quarter tank of gas, also i still am unable to get the grease and grime off my steering wheel, thankfully the car is fixed, but that dealer shall NEVER see my busines again, and to think i bought the damn car there in the first place, great customer service, i believe they thought I was a complete idiot and wanted to see how much cash they coudl get.

[99GrandAMSE]

... that sucks Blake :(

[99GrandAMSE]

Final update ... the cooling system pressured up fine after cooling down so we added more Preston to top it up and it runs great ... changed the oil (Mobil1) and filter too so now she is all ready to drive for a couple days to make sure there are definitely no leaks before Albany :woohoo:

Thanks again Dad! :)

[Jibo]

Awesome Kel! :thumbup:

[sunrunner_pei]

Way to go, Bumpy!!! :yippee:

You guys up to the task if mine ever leaks?

[Rayz]

I got your valve cover bolts and seals in my console, see you in Albany.

(If anyone else need some little hardware item for a 3.1 and your going to Albany let my know what you need I'll see if a have it.)

[RocketFast321]

Would you mind stoping by my town to drop off the intake and TB :)

[Gimli]

Can anyone explain this one to me please?

The new torque specs call for 62lbs on the vertical bolts, then 62 lbs on the diagonal bolts, then 115 lbs on the vertical bolts (I understand up to here, making sure the compression is even on the gasket as you tighten down the bolts) but then 18 lbs on the diagonals?

Why would you take the diagonals to 62 lbs then down to 18 lbs? Wouldn't that risk overcompressing the gasket and actually create a leak?

[Jibo]

:agree: sounds liek it to me Ben, press the gasket ot and then back off again? doesn't sound right at all.

[Rayz]

Originally posted by RocketFast321
Would you mind stoping by my town to drop off the intake and TB :)

No problem Bro, I’ll just swing by Alabama on my way to Albany.
Matter of fact why don’t you go out right now and stand by your mailbox so you don’t miss me. :D

[Pte Socks]

Well all I have to say, the only way I plan on changing my LIM gasket is when I do it myself!. Sorry to hear about all your problems there Blake, that is rediculous to hear the price they charged you! What dealership did you go to? I worked at Southgate Pontiac for a month or so as an Oil and Lube tech and even from that time, I knew they were crookes. They were going to charge me 4 AND A HALF hours to do a simple strut install. That was even with my new Eibach springs which didnt even need to be compressed! They then procedded to tell me about the hack shop they call Apex Modified which did the install for me in two hours for 150$. I said screw that, quite my job and went back to wall mart for my TLE tech job there. I swear this world is full of mechanic crooks and thank god ill know how to fix my own car if it ever gets busted in the future. So blake if you need a good mechanic in about 4 years, just call me up ;) as there isnt a better mechanic then an army mechanic ( trust me, I know a bunch and man those guys are good! )

[4kQuad]

Congrads Kelly,

It's cool your dad still gets around well enough to help you/convince you that the two of you should do it. Just something about knowing how things were done just makes a person feel better.

But now when you go to help one of your kids work on there cars....more of your dads words will come out your mouth. teehe

Ah, they must be good ones, you seem to have made a good life for your self and family.

[RocketFast321]

Originally posted by Rayz
No problem Bro, I’ll just swing by Alabama on my way to Albany.
Matter of fact why don’t you go out right now and stand by your mailbox so you don’t miss me. :D

ok :cool:

[prescill]

I was talking to a mechanic close to were I live, and we were talking about the famous 3.4 gm engine and how the gaskets always fail. I told him how many times I had mine done(3) and he told me what is causing it to fail, the bolts keep coming loose during constint expanding and expanding. He says he uses Loctite on the bolts which keeps the bolts from coming loose. He
has done many and none have come back. So in about 25000km when mine lets go again, i give what he said a try, it can't hurt.

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
Way to go, Bumpy!!! :yippee:

You guys up to the task if mine ever leaks?

I am sure we can work something out :lol:

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by prescill
... he told me what is causing it to fail, the bolts keep coming loose during constint expanding and expanding. He says he uses Loctite on the bolts which keeps the bolts from coming loose ...

GM suggests that when you replace the gaskets, you also replace the bolts with new ones 'from them' which now come with Loctite on them ... supposedly, the gaskets are new too but I used Felpro :)

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by Gimli
... The new torque specs call for 62lbs on the vertical bolts, then 62 lbs on the diagonal bolts, then 115 lbs on the vertical bolts (I understand up to here, making sure the compression is even on the gasket as you tighten down the bolts) but then 18 lbs on the diagonals? ...

Well first off, the 62 and 115 are IN-lbs and the 18 is FT-lbs (1 FT-lbs = 12 IN-lbs :wink4: :D) ... for interest sake, the torque rating has always been the same but it is the procedure for how to torque them that has changed ... basically, they previously said to torque all the centre bolts down then go to the diagonals but now they say do them in steps which in all seriousness, makes more sense to me :)

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
....the 62 and 115 are IN-lbs and the 18 is FT-lbs (1 FT-lbs = 12 IN-lbs....
This is INCREDIBLY important for the bolts, for the installation, and for your wallet!! :eek:

When speaking of torque on bolts, always say ft-lb or in-lb, as appropriate.

The change-over point is *generally* 120 in-lb / 10 ft-lb.

Y'all have fun in Albany :D :D

-Rick

[Gimli]

See, that's why I hate the stupid imperial system. Guess I'll have to remember to only go by the rating in N*m when (if) I do mine...

[Big Dawg 23]

Sucks that all you live near crappy dealerships. The Pont. dealership by me in a small town is awesome. I have reach the point anything cheaper that a 100-150 labor some else can do it. THere labor rate is good. I have had the water pump done with flush, belt, oil change and fuel filter for 225.00 115 of that was the pump. Yes I know I could have gotten the pump for 50-65, but if the original went 140000 how long with this one go. I dont have luck with Aftermarket. by the way nice work on the LIM. I like the the dress up on the engine.

[SeaMikeTpa]

99grandamse,

Do you have the part number for the intake bolts?

I found a place here in Bremerton, WA that will charge me $471.00 to do it. Thant includes parts and labor. With a 1 yr warranty.

Thanks, Mike

[Bjornboy81]

Save yourself the hassle and get it done for that price! That's really good...I haven't heard of it being less than $800.

[Vampyrate]

i know this is necromancy of a thread to the extreme... but i was wondering if you had a listing of all the tools needed to do the job...

i want to replace this myself but need to make sure that i ahve all teh tools required for the job first.

the main question would be, did you need any "specialzed" tools such as impact wrench and what to torqe the bolts back together.

the pics are great, and im more of a pictoral learner, but a list of tools needed would also help

[Bjornboy81]

pretty much common hand tools...a good socket and wrench set and a torque wrench that you might be able to rent at a auto suppy store.....and a lot of time :P

[DFK000]

Hey All,

I read several posts on the LIM gasket replacement. Mine is now due and I asked my mecanic how much it would be. He told me 6 hrs....so 60x6hr = 360$. I already have the Felpro gasket with me.

My question is does the mecanic need to remove the exhaust manifold to perform the LIM gasket replacement?

Im asking because, When I bought the car last year I noticed that the exhaust manifold had 2 broken bolts (out of 6). So i dont want him to start playing around there!!!


Tks

DFK

[Colin]

Originally posted by DFK000
My question is does the mecanic need to remove the exhaust manifold to perform the LIM gasket replacement? No

[bballr4567]

Yea the new mechinac that I found quoted me $421 for the change and new felpro gaskets. I was like damn!!! lol

[slomoe]

I got a quick question for ya. Does the o-ring go in the groove on the inlet side? I cant get mine to stop leaking :(

[99GrandAMSE]

... you might have to replace the o-ring (I assume you mean on the fuel rail) as it is easy to "NICK" (I did it) ... they are a little expensive though :(

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by slomoe
Does the o-ring go in the groove on the inlet side?
I can't get mine to stop leaking :(
What are you calling the 'inlet side'?

Gas ENTERS the fuel rail at the rear fitting (nearest the rear bank of cylinders). This is 'Inlet'.
Gas (and excess fuel pressure) are RELIEVED (back to the fuel tank) thru the forward fitting (the Fuel Pressure Regulator). This is 'Relief' or 'Return'.

Both of them are PITA's, and of similar installation.

The O-ring must set in the groove of the female (receiving) fitting, and behind the land (outward groove) of the tubing.
Warm the O-ring in hot water to make it pliable, and lube it lightly with a dab of motor oil. Insert quickly while still warm.

Good luck,
-Rick

[slomoe]

I got it fixed last week. The dealer gave me the wrong o-ring, thats why it leaked again. I ended up digging around at work and finding a nitrile o-ring that worked. I think it was size 117 for anyone else that has this problem.

It woudl be a buna-n on mccmaster carr

[HeyDace]

Nice job Kelly. I loved the liberal use of fender and roof? protection. :lol:

You are correct about dexcool being the catalyst for LIM gasket failure. I hate the stuff and talk most all my customers into flushing it out and replacing it with Glycol.

A little "fuel inlet seal tip" for ya. When reassembly of the fuel line into the rail, use a liberal amount of Hi-Tack (gasket adhesive spray) on the seal. It slides in nice and easy.

I've never replaced intake bolts and to be honest never have used sealer or loctite either. I've had no comebacks for leaks from the 300 or 400 I've done (and I don't torque them either).

Felpro makes an even better gasket set for the LIM. The intake gaskets are metal with rubber seals. I try to get this set when doing them, a little more costly but well worth the money.

Did you replace the T-stat while you had the intake off? They suck to do while its together. :lol:

[Gimli]

Originally posted by HeyDace
You are correct about dexcool being the catalyst for LIM gasket failure. I hate the stuff and talk most all my customers into flushing it out and replacing it with Glycol.

Really? How do you explain that not all GM engine have gasket issues then? Or how most of the first symptoms of the LIM failure is oil leaking outside the engine, which has nothing to do with coolant?


Originally posted by HeyDace
Felpro makes an even better gasket set for the LIM. The intake gaskets are metal with rubber seals. I try to get this set when doing them, a little more costly but well worth the money.

If it's really a DexCool issue then what gasket set you get should make no difference, right?

[HeyMelo27]

Originally posted by Gimli
Really? How do you explain that not all GM engine have gasket issues then? Or how most of the first symptoms of the LIM failure is oil leaking outside the engine, which has nothing to do with coolant?




If it's really a DexCool issue then what gasket set you get should make no difference, right?

touche' lol. yeah i gotta do the job myself on friday. gonna be tough to get parts last minute. anyone have a list of all the parts i need to order? im getting plugs and wires as well. should i get a t-stat? etc.?

Mike
EMAIL/MSN: HeyMelo55@hotmail.com
AIM: HeyMelo55

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by HeyMelo27
yeah i gotta do the job myself on friday. gonna be tough to get parts last minute.
anyone have a list of all the parts i need to order? i'm getting plugs and wires as well. should i get a t-stat? etc.?

MikeThe LIM gasket set will include all parts necessary for the basic job.
EXCEPT, you will also need new O-rings for the fuel inlet and return fittings as slomoe has been experiencing.

Definitely change the t-stat while you're there; yours is prolly original, therefore 6-7 yrs old.
An oil change (or two) will be necessary to flush coolant from the crankcase.

Do a 'search' on this forum.
There are several threads that talk of other stuff to do with the LIM gasket, and the all-important caution regarding pushrod lengths.

Good luck,
-Rick

[HeyDace]

Originally posted by Gimli
Really? How do you explain that not all GM engine have gasket issues then? Or how most of the first symptoms of the LIM failure is oil leaking outside the engine, which has nothing to do with coolant?




If it's really a DexCool issue then what gasket set you get should make no difference, right?


Not all Gm engines use the same gasket material. The oil leak issue has nothing to do with LIM gaskets. The oil leaks from the valley seal or the distributor drive plug.

It really is a dexcool issue and felpro makes a gasket set that uses a metal frame gasket with thick rubber seals bonded to it.


Not only does it (dexcool) attack intake manifolds, but can clog your radiator and heater core. That is why GM went from saying it is maintenance free for 5 yrs to flushing it every two yrs.
But still they deny these claims for repair and blame owners lack of maintenance. :roll2:

[Gimli]

Originally posted by HeyDace
Not all Gm engines use the same gasket material.

That would seem to be a gasket material issue, not a DexCool issue, therefore it should be easy to fix the LIM gasket then, no?


Originally posted by HeyDace
The oil leak issue has nothing to do with LIM gaskets. The oil leaks from the valley seal or the distributor drive plug.

Not on any of the ones I've seen. It was clearly leaking oil from the LIM gasket, on either or both sides of the engine.


Originally posted by HeyDace
It really is a dexcool issue and felpro makes a gasket set that uses a metal frame gasket with thick rubber seals bonded to it.

So again, that appears to be a gasket material issue. If DexCool was so bad it would surely destroy every other gasket it comes in contact with, would it not? If all you have to do is change the gasket for one that is better made (like the FelPro gasket), why would you bother changing the coolant for something the engine wasn't designed for?


Originally posted by HeyDace
Not only does it (dexcool) attack intake manifolds, but can clog your radiator and heater core. That is why GM went from saying it is maintenance free for 5 yrs to flushing it every two yrs.

So it attacks intake manifolds too now? Not just LIM gaskets? I'm sure you have pictures of a degraded intake manifold to back that claim, do you not?

Please post a reference for the change in maintenance intervals because looking at the 2007 Pontiac G6 Owner's Manual (https://www.mygmlink.com/main/US/en/gm/intlink?inturl=/pdf/go2content/manual/US/en/pontiac/2007g6.pdf, page 435) it clearly shows coolant maintenance intervals of 5 years/150,000 miles.

Thankfully car maintenance is a lot more palatable then religion so you can stop making stuff up in an effort to get people to change the fluids their cars were designed to run on for something that will keep them coming back to you for repairs.

[HeyDace]

So it attacks intake manifolds too now? Not just LIM gaskets? I'm sure you have pictures of a degraded intake manifold to back that claim, do you not?



I meant to say "intake manifold gaskets"

Dexcool turns to crap when exposed to air, we've all seen it. There is more than enough proof just on this forum alone.

The maintenance change for dexcool is a TSB. I've seen it. Its not in your owners manual.
:roll2:

[HeyMelo27]

yep so i got my parts. i went with the felpro permadry kit, ms9003t. ac deloc platinum plugs, wires, t-stat. also got a fuel filter, and plan on doinga trans service and obviously a radiator flush...again

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by HeyMelo27
yep so i got my parts. i went with the felpro permadry kit, ms9003t. ac deloc platinum plugs, wires, t-stat. also got a fuel filter, and plan on doinga trans service and obviously a radiator flush...again Sounds like a plan for a GREAT TurkeyDay weekend... :roll:

Good luck,
-Rick

[HeyMelo27]

ok so i brought it into work yesterday and got started. got the upper manifold off, air box, coil packs, etc off, just enough to expose the LIM. been on it since 10am this morning...its 12:45 now and im beginning to reassemble everything...after i take a dump lol. ill keep you up to date...not that you really care im sure but if theres any questions to ask then nows a good time

[HeyMelo27]

i lost the friggin o-ring damnit!!!. part number?

[HeyMelo27]

got some o-rings from Autozone..it fit well so i hope it works.

and yep...so 11 hours later as im finishing up i realize i have two bolts that im unsure where they belong...they look exactly like intake manifold bolts. hmmm. there are 4 black bolts for the inner LIM, 4 Diagonal LIM bolts, and 6 UIM bolts. i dont know where else they could go...any input please?

lol no..their not extra parts...i didnt modify the design

[chickie]

I have a coolant leak on the right side that like a metal hose. Its underneath the plastic hose going to the radiator. Bare with me, i'm female.:lol:

[HeyMelo27]

pictures are always a good start. is it a black metal hose going into the lower intake? have you had the LIM gasket replaced?

[rixGAphx]

I have a coolant leak on the right side that like a metal hose.
Its underneath the plastic hose going to the radiator. Bare with me, i'm female.:lol:I *think* you're talking about 'vehicle right', meaning 'right, as I sit in the driverseat and look forward.'

The larger hose is rubber, and actually has a fitting halfway along it that branches and runs to the plastic coolant reservoir.
This is the 'lower radiator hose', and is also known as the 'Y-hose' on this car.

There are two metal tubes, about 3/8" diameter, that attach to the plastic side tank of the radiator below the lower radiator hose.
They are filled with circulating red transmission fluid, since the side tank acts as a tanny cooler.
Is it one of these tubes that is leaking?
Is it leaking right at the connection with the radiator? If so, there's prolly a crack in the plastic of the side tank, and a replacement $180 radiator is in your immediate future.
Takes about 2 hours of swearing to replace it.

Hope this helps,
-Rick

[DeltaBravo]

A fuel leak test can be performed right after the fuel injectors and fuel rail is reconnected. Reconnect the battery and turn the key to run and off a few times. I found this out the hard way as well after having a leaky fuel injector o ring.

Can someone mic that inlet o ring? ID and width? TIA. Local dealer price is $24 for two 86 cent o rings. Ouch!

[rixGAphx]

A fuel leak test can be performed right after the fuel injectors and fuel rail is reconnected. Reconnect the battery and turn the key to run and off a few times. I found this out the hard way as well after having a leaky fuel injector o ring.

Can someone mic that inlet o ring? ID and width? TIA. Local dealer price is $24 for two 86 cent o rings. Ouch!Why are you talking to a dealer about O-rings???

Every AutoZone/Checker/etc. has O-rings, and catalog listing for GA's as well as every other vehicle on the road.
My experience has been that they come in boxes of 2, about $4 a box.

[DeltaBravo]

I circumvented the dealer price by buying a set of o rings, and want to verify the actual o ring size. I want to same size as the dealer pack, don't want to guess. Two parts stores did not have a listing for the inlet ring. The "117" size identified here or elsewhere did not cross list.

Any brand and part number out there, or mic'd size, please?

[ssvejiita]

Why are you talking to a dealer about O-rings???

Every AutoZone/Checker/etc. has O-rings, and catalog listing for GA's as well as every other vehicle on the road.
My experience has been that they come in boxes of 2, about $4 a box.

yea..i v actually purchased the oring set from the dealer...while i was doin my lim/head gasket swap i had purchased a set from an autoparts store..came with like two diff sets of orings..which none were the rite size...
the dealer kit comes with the two set as well but fit like a glove

[DeltaBravo]

I used an o ring from the Help! 80020 fuel o ring assortment, around $7.50 for 18 different o rings. There are 2 injector rings in there and some fuel filter o rings, so it's probably good to have these on hand. More power to you if the exact o ring is available at your parts store.

I hope this helps people avoid paying $24 plus at the dealer.

Now about that fuel rail. Pulling and reseating the fuel rail puts stress on it. The two sides are connected with a pipe that is crimped on one end, and o ringed on the other but not crimped. The end of this pipe, which is on the back side of the fuel rail, will pull out of the fuel rail, and leak. If you can see any part of the o ring, this area might leak. Try pushing it in, but it might be impossible. If you can only see the flange, and it is seated flush or below the fuel rail surface, all should be ok.

[DeltaBravo]

Ha, I found the o ring that flew off the inlet pipe. Looks just like the one from the help! fuel o ring kit above. Dimensions on the o ring are: OD: 5/8" (.625"), ID: 13/32" (.400"), thickness: .100".

BTW, this is from/for a '96 GA with a 3100.