kablooey, car go bye bye

[Toutsuu]

once again my car is broken. this time the block decided to crack, the cams are screwed and so are the lifters. parts would cost 1150, labor, god only knows. i think it is time to give up, return the car to gmac. i can't afford it anymore.

i don't know how much they are going to like it, but i won't be able to pay them the difference of whatever they think the car is worth and what i still owe them. screw them, they gave me a shitty product and i already put over 2000 dollars into repairing it because they voided my warrenty.

what good is a warrenty when it can be voided for no any reason, or for no reason at that. they said they suspected nitrous, there were no idications of it however. all they need is suspect.

i'm so sick of it, the talon is a better car anyways. awd, turbo, everything i wish my grand am had come with. automatic everything. rear wiper. pop up lights.

the grand am is such a pretty car, but like all women in my life, she is breaking my heart. i have a hard enough time letting go of real women, most of the time i just wait until they leave by themselves because i don't have the heart to give up on them.

i think i have no other choice on this one though

[XtremeGrandAm]

That really sucks....but didnt you have nitrous in your car thats what I thought. Because I thought I remember you asking if you should keep it in there after the last time.

[tido_29]

yeah, didnt you blow your engine because you used a 75 shot or something. i really like that car. but you have to do what you have to do. :(

in case you do have to take it back.
will you be parting w/ any pieces.
:cool:

[SpyhunteR]

I'm not gonna lie.. I think it's pretty much on you that your motor gave up. Nitrous usage and such .... man you should've bolstered your motor the first time around.. :-\



Almost the same situation as me, but I never ran nitrous or forced induction on my ride... yet.

[TA^Guy]

Not all mechanics are idiots. When they see burnt pistons and scorched cylinders it's not typical. Sorry to say if you wanted your warrenty you wouldn't have changed much.

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
Not all mechanics are idiots. When they see burnt pistons and scorched cylinders it's not typical. Sorry to say if you wanted your warrenty you wouldn't have changed much.
I have to agree completly you cant blame anyone for loosing your warranty when you used nitrous. Thats why i hate nitrous because its not good for your engine and people missuse it....So again im sorry your engine is messed up again. But make sure you are putting fault in the proper places. I dont see how its pontiacs fault or GMAC.....Sorry:(

[medicboy]

Well, either you were lying to us the whole time, or like someone else said here, you are looking for blame in the wrong places....

The thread:

http://gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310

So, if GM were to know or see that you were racing your car, thats an automatic void of warranty (the bane of all Z06 owners....trust me)

I'm sorry, but I've wrecked my car doing stupid or careless things, and I took the blame....You're now telling us they can void the warrany on "nothing at all".....Not buying it!!

[MysteriousGT1]

Originally posted by medicboy
Well, either you were lying to us the whole time, or like someone else said here, you are looking for blame in the wrong places....

The thread:

http://gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310

So, if GM were to know or see that you were racing your car, thats an automatic void of warranty (the bane of all Z06 owners....trust me)

I'm sorry, but I've wrecked my car doing stupid or careless things, and I took the blame....You're now telling us they can void the warrany on "nothing at all".....Not buying it!!

:agree:

[99GrandAMSE]

... I am sincerely sorry your engine is 'gone' Tout, but fair is fair, you have to take responsibility for this yourself :(

[gt karl]

Sounds like another case of denial.

[Pte Socks]

ahh give the guy a break.. hes still young and he does what i love to do and thats race.. its just shitty that your car is crapping out.. but its true about the warranty... shitty as ever but its there for a reason

[Toutsuu]

I really don't blame anyone but myself. Well maybe I blame GM for making a crappy engine a little, or a lot!

I put it down to a 50 shot after I had the head work done. I don't know what I'm being accused of lying about. Maybe you should make yourself clearer. I never intentionally contradicted myself.

I don't know what I'm going to do, my options seem to be bankruptcy (sp?) or paying for 3 more years on a broken car.

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
I really don't blame anyone but myself. Well maybe I blame GM for making a crappy engine a little, or a lot!

I put it down to a 50 shot after I had the head work done. I don't know what I'm being accused of lying about. Maybe you should make yourself clearer. I never intentionally contradicted myself.

I don't know what I'm going to do, my options seem to be bankruptcy (sp?) or paying for 3 more years on a broken car.

If it was me, I would just get the engine work it needs, then LEAVE THE CAR ALONE!!!!

Just drive it around and use it as a normal car, don't bother doing anything extra to it, wait until it's paid off, then make your decsion from there, but just don't bother modding it or anything, and just take all the money you would spend in mods and put it aside incase anything goes wrong, you have the money to fix it.

But bankruptcy is not something I would personally want to go anywhere near, it is just hella bad on your credit (well, not too much credit at that point)

[Silver00GAGT]

GM builds their engines to very tight specs, thats why they are so reliable. The simplest mod can throw em off, i have seen it a dozen times. Even the trucks if you straight pipe em, you blow the rings and hence the motor. I think GM builds the best cars around all together, they all have their quirks but at least you can afford to fix em.

SOrry about your car man, that is rough, Not accusing you of anything just wanted to say that, good luck with everything

[Toutsuu]

Yeah... I'm learning that the hard way. Basically I've seen that the car WILL NOT hold up to nitrous oxide. I know other people use it and I'm wondering how it is effecting there cars. I either got a bad car or it should effect all of them the same way, but there are a lot of people running boost and they haven't reported that many problems. Except for zexerking, he's the only one I've heard of blowing his motor, my friend blew his PT TURBO cruiser up with it too. I thought it was just a bad system. I've heard nitrous was SUPPOSED to be safe, but in my experience it is not.

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
Yeah... I'm learning that the hard way. Basically I've seen that the car WILL NOT hold up to nitrous oxide. I know other people use it and I'm wondering how it is effecting there cars. I either got a bad car or it should effect all of them the same way, but there are a lot of people running boost and they haven't reported that many problems. Except for zexerking, he's the only one I've heard of blowing his motor, my friend blew his PT TURBO cruiser up with it too. I thought it was just a bad system. I've heard nitrous was SUPPOSED to be safe, but in my experience it is not. Nitrous is not safe.....I know so many people that put too many shots of nitrous in their engines and end up just like you are now. No one is trying to accuse you of lying you just didnt make much sense in your first post when you were saying you didnt do anything to your car because all of us here know that you did have nitrous the first time and you continued to use it after. I know nitrous is a cheap way to get HP but it never turns out good in the long run.

[Toutsuu]

no shit

[XtremeGrandAm]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
no shit
:rolleyes:

Well.....Good Luck with whatever you decide to do. I hope it doesnt mess you up too bad...

[Chaotic Reality]

Sorry to hear about your car man. :( If you decide to get rid of it and part some things off, let me know since I can just pick it up instead of having you ship it out.

-Jon

[p8ntman442]

ahhhhh Nitrous! one phrase comes to mind: You get what you pay for. Sorry man that stinks that your car is dead, but hey work on the talon, youll be much better off.

[Travis99GT]

N2O is plenty safe, but not on a motor with cast pistons that WASNT designed for nitrous. A guy I know had a BUILT 347 stroker in his 93 cobra and was shooting damn near a 400 shot at times and the motor went through HUNDREDS of passes like that without any issues. These cars weren't designed to have that done to them. Granted yours may have been strange from the beginning, but saying they sold you a crappy product because you blew the motor twice is pretty retarded :rolleyes:

[L!m3]

Sorry the hear about the car...but like everyone has said, it's your fault. It's ALL your faul too, dont blame it on GM's "crappy little engine". The 2.4 is a very good engine, but the stock motors aren't meant for boost or nitrous. You need better internals for the car, lower compression pistons, etc. It's not like you can just slap on an Eaton supercharger on a 3.8L grand prix and call it a day. The GTP's use lower compression pistons compared to the standard GP's. Same goes with ANY motor that is N/A.

[02GARacer]

Damn that sucks

[Toutsuu]

so i'm a retard

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
so i'm a retard

He wasn't saying that, but just don't blame GM by saying their engines are crap when you did what you did.

It would be like getting a Toyota RAV4, then going to Toyota and saying to them that they make a crappy truck because it couldn't keep up with your buddys Hummer while crossing the Artic Tundra.

Everything has it's own purpos, the 2.4 Twin Cam, and GA in general are not made stock to be highly modded, nor would the Rav4 be the ultimate 4x4ing machine stock, both would need a good going over and alot of money to be able to go that extreme

[Jibo]

Tout, it sucks that you blew the motor again, but GMAC didn't build a crappy engine, the engine they built was not made to run nitrous stock, period. That is what voided your warrantee and caused your motor to blow not once but twice, personally I wouldn't have done nitrous in the first place, or at least not tried it again after engine number 1 blew up. Sorry for your car troubles, but nobody voided your warrantee but you.

[DominionTuner]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
what good is a warrenty when it can be voided for no any reason, or for no reason at that. they said they suspected nitrous, there were no idications of it however. all they need is suspect.



Yea like you weren't spraying anyway right? Let me guess you left your nitrous system installed when you took it in to be looked at when you damaged that lifter the first time right? A little common sense can go a long way. There were people on this forum that don't even have nitrous and told you to take your system off when you tried to claim awarranty service. You didn't take anyones advice so you only have yourself to blame in the first place.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by XtremeGrandAm
Nitrous is not safe.....
Sorry but this is FALSE. In the right hands and used sparingly N2O is less wear than a turbo or supercharger.
I know so many people that put too many shots of nitrous in their engines and end up just like you are now.
And THIS is the problem and why N2O gets a bad rap. 75% of the kids out there with N2O don't have the slightest clue how it works, how to tune it or how much to run, especially on stock internals. All it takes is a inproper jet size, miswired solinode, incorrectly adjusted mirco switch, etc and you could ruin a nice engine REAL fast.
But the same can be said for turbo or a supercharger. I suppose everyone that bad mouth N2O has never heard of anyone blowing a motor with forced induction? It's just as easy to do.
Originally posted by Travis99GT
N2O is plenty safe, but not on a motor with cast pistons that WASNT designed for nitrous. A guy I know had a BUILT 347 stroker in his 93 cobra and was shooting damn near a 400 shot at times and the motor went through HUNDREDS of passes like that without any issues. These cars weren't designed to have that done to them. Granted yours may have been strange from the beginning, but saying they sold you a crappy product because you blew the motor twice is pretty retarded :rolleyes:
Thank you Travis. My friends 30,000 mile IROCZ with a stock motor was running a 150hp shot of N20 with no problems. Same goes for my friend Keiths 383 Nova that has a plate system & a direct port system. Gus is running 200-250hp shot on a 377 stroker in his Mustang, not a single problem. And they aren't newbies to N2O, they have been using it for years without a problem. Why? Proper tuning and knowing what works.

[DominionTuner]

Originally posted by TA^Guy

But the same can be said for turbo or a supercharger. I suppose everyone that bad mouth N2O has never heard of anyone blowing a motor with forced induction? It's just as easy to do.



Damn right! There are just as many if not more stories of people trying to add forced induction, or increase boost on a vehicle with stock forced induction and end up shelling out a lot of money because they messed their engine up. Anybody want examples??? Go to the RX7 forums and ask the 3rd Gen owners just how many problems the stock motor has on boost. And then ask how much money they had to pay to repair it. While your at it, why don't you ask how many were warranty repairs!

[klc317]

Right...my friend has a built up 351 Windsor in a '90 Mustang made specifically for racing (wild cam, supercharger, and some nitrous) and it has kicked ass for 2 years of drag racing and daily driving. But you simply cant expect a stock non-modified engine to stand up to repeated pounding and NOS shots. I hate to see your engine gone, but it seems like its took alot of pounding. I can agree that its cool to see a 4-cyl car whip some ass, but if ya wanna do it on a repetitive basis, the engine internals and drivetrain have to be beefed up to the abuse they will endure. I love my GA and have fun with it, but I have a 3 year commitment of payments that no one else is gonna pay, so I take care of it and dont pound it into the ground. You just cant say "I don't wanna pay my car payments anymore" I dont mean to be a dick or so blunt, but thats the black and white.

[Toutsuu]

just for the record, i did take the system off when i brought it to gm for service. as far as everything else, i know it was own fault... i was just venting in my first post.

it was a fun run while it lasted though but right now i can't afford to do anything else with the car. i didn't put that system in there expecting to have no problems. when the head went, i beefed it up. now i need cams and lifters as well as a new block peice but i can't afford it right now.

eventually i'll get the freakin thing fixed and hopefully it won't break AGAIN. i just need to take the problems as they come.

i also need to consider options as far as thinking about a new motor or ditching the car altogether (which i really don't want to do, but might have to)

anyways, tout, out

[L!m3]

i'm guessing you didn't even break the second engine in properly as well. Running shots of nitrous with 300 miles wouldn't be a good thing. The manufacturer's usually recommend about 4k miles of break in period, but I would never abuse a car until at least 10k.

[p8ntman442]

this is what i thought as well, but a reliable source that does all kinds of engines, said that he takes them out onto the highway after a rebuild and runs them slow untill fouth gear, then he picks up the pace, and runs it at high rpm for a while, he says that for propper ring seat, you need to be at high revs for a while, not orange line, but up there ya know. He told me when i cryo treat my engine including rings, that I should do the same.

[Toutsuu]

ok, i'm guessing you guys don't know this but the first time i had problems with the engine it was just an exhaust valve, so i replaced all the valves on the exhaust side and polished the head. This time the block actually cracked and took the cams and lifters with it. So I didn't actually replace the whole engine the first time.

Not sure if I will this time either since I probably would be better off getting better cams and lifters and everything else stills looks fine. With my luck though next time it will be a piston that goes so maybe I should get a new engine or just replace those and the rods like I was going to the first time.

And after the head work I did break the engine in for 1,500 miles before I squeezed and it broke down after just another 1,500 miles, but I wasn't running it at a 75 shot 2 times a week for 10 runs for 3 months. I only ever squeezed for a couple of runs on 2 seperate occasions and then the 3rd time it went. I guess it must have been weak from before to do what it did.

[DominionTuner]

I'll give you 100 bucks and a $10 coupon for TGI Fridays for your Nitrous sys...and JUST the sys i don't want all the extra stuff you have.

[Toutsuu]

i'll sell it for 455 is half of what i boiught it for

[DominionTuner]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
i'll sell it for 455 is half of what i boiught it for

455 is half???
Wet kits go for 500 bucks just so ya know. And that is new.
Dude when you walked into that store, they looked at the manager and said,

Look at this moron!! Watch me sell him this!

[Travis99GT]

Originally posted by Purple Haze
455 is half???
Wet kits go for 500 bucks just so ya know. And that is new.
Dude when you walked into that store, they looked at the manager and said,

Look at this moron!! Watch me sell him this!
:funny:

[99GrandAMSE]

GEEEZ guys ... take it easy :(

[Chaotic Reality]

No doubt, you guys are harsh.

Purple Haze, even if it is 500 new, you're a cheap ass. :)

-Jon

[HondaCivicsSuck]

ouch..... that was mean, sorry about the motor dude :(

[Toutsuu]

Originally posted by Purple Haze
455 is half???
Wet kits go for 500 bucks just so ya know. And that is new.
Dude when you walked into that store, they looked at the manager and said,

Look at this moron!! Watch me sell him this!


"ALL" GM "STAGE ONE" EFI SINGLE NOZZLE SYSTEM (35-150 h.p)
Manufacturer:
Part#: 20920
Retail Price: $775.00 (click 'Buy Now' for dealer price)

Category: SINGLE STAGE E.F.I. SYSTEMS. (35-150HP)

sorry, it was a little more expensive when i bought it, but it's still not 500 bucks, and i still won't sell it to you for less than 455 since i can sell it for that at the shop as a used kit because it's still 320 dollars less than new. if you want a new kit for 500 bucks, buy zex and blow your car up even faster than i did mine.

[medicboy]

But Zex, NX, NOS...whats the big diff?? Its just a bottle, some braided line and some solenoids....I don't see how one would be worse than the other for a car....they all spray the same substance! I like purple bottles personally, just as a cosmetic touch...

So whats the dealer price on that kit then?

[1996v6corsica]

if you want to go fast, get the talon smokin, grand ams just arent supposed to go fast, they just look fast

[Toutsuu]

lol, you got that right! anyways, i'm sik of ppl dissin on me cause i got a nx kit professionally installed and damaged my engine. everyone seems to think that either i or the shop ppls didn't know what they were doing but the fact is the car ran fast and held up for over a season of racing on a bone stock engine.

i think that is pretty good dispite my current troubles. it was inevitable

[redgrandam]

Originally posted by Toutsuu
lol, you got that right! anyways, i'm sik of ppl dissin on me cause i got a nx kit professionally installed and damaged my engine. everyone seems to think that either i or the shop ppls didn't know what they were doing but the fact is the car ran fast and held up for over a season of racing on a bone stock engine.

i think that is pretty good dispite my current troubles. it was inevitable

Sorry to hear about your car :(

but I think the reason for all the outbursts in this thread was becuase you originally appeard to be mad at pontiac for making a crappy engine. Good that realize it was inevitable and are overall please with the engine I gather, just it wasn't designed for that particular kind of use (or abuse, depending on who you are talking to :lol:)

[Toutsuu]

i still wish they made a better engine in the first place. so in a way i am still pissed at them, and i can be, because i am

[TA^Guy]

Toutsuu, keep in mind I'm not knocking you here.
But if your car ONLY lasted a season on the bottle I would say the clown(s) that installed it really have no clue how to tune or adjust a N2O set up or a car with N2O.
On that note over $700 for a system is crazy. Purple Haze was a bit harsh but he's correct a nice wet setup runs around $500, I wouldn't pay over $600 for one. I do recall when you had all this done and I was saying the same thing, they say you coming a mile away. Sold you alot of stuff and did a crappy job installing/tuning it. You put blame on GM, you should blame the clowns at that shop.
Originally posted by medicboy
But Zex, NX, NOS...whats the big diff?? Its just a bottle, some braided line and some solenoids....I don't see how one would be worse than the other for a car....they all spray the same substance! I like purple bottles personally, just as a cosmetic touch...
Well there is a difference. Wet, dry is a HUGE difference just to start with. I don't think ZEX uses a wet setup at all. Instead companies like ZEX and Venom use a 'computer' gimmick to sell their dry setups claiming they are safer. Safer than what, another dry setup, maybe. But in reality all dry setups are simular. NOS, ProFlow, NX, TNT, NitrousWorks, Edelbrock, etc all have thier new technology. Burst panels, trick timers, fancy new solenoids, purge valves, progressive controllers, micro switches, bottle heaters, remote valves, single, duel and even tripple shots. It's not hard to install, but it's not a bolt and go mod either. Proper octane, plugs, and timing are needed. Along with proper tuning of the N20:fuel for the ideal air:fuel mixture. After all 90% of the time this is what is going to damage a motor on the juice.
Originally posted by 1996v6corsica
if you want to go fast, get the talon smokin, grand ams just arent supposed to go fast, they just look fast
Well I want to agree to a extent, but then again Talons and such are all that either, they more or less want to be a real sports car.

[Toutsuu]

well fook me then

[MagusXIII]

Tom, the shop DID "fook" you. Can somebody PLEASE tell me WHY the installation of the SAME system on my car that my buddy and I did works? We drank a few beers and we took our time. Yet...my engine is still intact. Why? We're NOT "dissin" you, just the shop who did it! All it takes for a shop to do is put in the wrong fuel jet for the selected nitrous jet. Did the fuel solenoid work? During installation, before you run the system for the first time, you arm the solenoids and press the microswitch. Do u hear BOTH of them clicking? If so, connect fuel and nitrous lines and you are set. If not, check your wiring. Ok, solenoids click? Well, point the nozzle into a glass and spray with the fuel and nitrous lines connected. If fuel and nitrous come out, you are set. If not, check everything 2 more times over!

I used plain old non-platinum plugs in my engine. I used plugs that were 1/4" shorter in reach as well. But then, I had no choice because ALL plugs right now that are OEM replacements for the 2.0L Zetec engine are platinum. This had the result of lowering compression .25-.5pts. With them being projected insulator types and one heat range colder, the shorter reach has not caused any problem. I run 94 octane fuel with a booster meant for nitrous usage. And I read my plugs every few squirts to look for signs of detonation. So Tom, with all due respect, if I have had it installed now for 3 years without blowing up my engine, then it MUST be safe.

I would just chalk this one up as a learning experience, I guess. When I blew the intake off the car after failing to shift at the rev limiter,, that was not Ford's fault. It was mine.


Don

[jayhawk]

Originally posted by p8ntman442
this is what i thought as well, but a reliable source that does all kinds of engines, said that he takes them out onto the highway after a rebuild and runs them slow untill fouth gear, then he picks up the pace, and runs it at high rpm for a while, he says that for propper ring seat, you need to be at high revs for a while, not orange line, but up there ya know. He told me when i cryo treat my engine including rings, that I should do the same.

Well actually only iron piston rings need a lenghty break in procedure. Chrome moly rings seat seat themselves quite fast, a matter of a few engine hours.


We drank a few beers and we took our time.


Ah ha! It WAS the beer! Burped a few into the system, eh? :lol: :D

Jay