Ram Air fluid profile

[RocketMan]

Hey all. I just got my very first car, a GA /w Ram Air (2003)

very happy cuz it looks like sex with the (fake) hood scoops lol.

Anyway I've done some reading in this forum so i don't look like an idiot right off the bat or offend anyone with my n00bness but here's how it stands.

I pretty much wasted a large part of my dough on the car but still want to do some light modding to maybe push the HP up to like 185 or 190 or thereabouts. I've heard that the RAM air while good has problems that makes a CAI more attractive. I may still consider doing that but before I do I want to investigate a few things first. Later i might look into pulley replacement.

I have read that the stock TB size is 57mm (correct me if i'm wrong on any of this) and that you can get 62mm TB from PFYC. Now the thing is that while this allows for a greater fluid flux to pass through it, if the conduits leading to the TB are not changed then all that'll happen is you will diffuse the air at the TB and slow it down. My question is: Is there sufficient flow through the RAM air unit or does the RAM attribute compress the air enough to allow a larger TB to work as it should.

I'd be up for smoothing out the ribs in the air box and taping up the holes but on the other hand I don't want water in my engine so maybe leaving a small pinhole wouldn't sacrifice too much??

Anything else that can be done to passively improve the RA system?

The other thing is, has anyone replaced their flat filters with so called high flow filters and noticed a difference in performance?

Third of all (and i'm shooting from the hip with this idea), might it be worth while to wrap the intake conduit surfaces with reflective heat shielding or insulation or something like that to keep heat from the engine away from the air during its long journey to the cylindars? Thanks guys.

[Red99GT]

If you have the ram air set up with the "fake" hood scoops, I'd say make them real! Take out the driver side block out plate, and put in a Dr. Speed Cold Air Box (or make one like it) then route air from the scoop stright to the Air filter. That's my plan. I already have the cold air box, I just need the ram air hood.

[Brandon]

drop the air box (ram air) and get a dr.speed stage 3 cold air intake. that will take you to close ifnot at where you want to be with the hp. the throttly body will help you... as well.

the ram air thing that you keep talking about is the holes in the grill under the hoodscoops followed by the air ducting to the airbox. and trust me, if you get the stage 3 cia.... you wont miss the ram air thing at all, and you still have the looks :)

[RocketMan]

wow appreciate the quick reply....

read the doctor speed site....says ~10 HP gains...i'm assuming to 170 HP since you can't have both RAM and CIA so that's putting me at 180 for 200 american right? is that what ppl see in reality? I'm just thinking i misinterpreted what you guys are sayin cuz an extra 5 hp (170 + ~10 without ram) seems a bit shallow for 200 bucks. I know tempered aluminum of aircraft grade has ultimate strengths upwards of 700 MPa, making it rather expensive so making a cia myself might be nearly as pricy when you factor in labour and tooling so if i want cia at all i might as well get the doc speed.

I guess cuz ppl are saying the TB mod is a good idea that must mean that with Doc speed CIA's the conduits are large enough and the K&N is not restrictive so that the increased diameter of the TB actually lets more air in instead of the conduit being the limiting flow parameter. How much larger are these pipes than the stock that comes with the car, especially at the grille where the air enters. After all, its that orifice at the grille that determines the mass flow and everything after that is just a loss right?

[Bjornboy81]

these cars are 175hp, so getting CAI will put you about 185. The ram air does nothing for hp really, so you won't lose 5 and then gain 10 from the CAI, The 5hp increase over the SE modle is actually a bigger exhaust.

You'll notice quite a gain from the CAI. Nothing that is incredible, but definetly noticeable.

I'm not familliar with the TB mod as far as gains, so someelse could answer that.

If I were you I'd also look into exhaust and the underdrive pulley from Fast Foward Performance. Both will yeild very nice results. and the CAI + exhaust combo will work together to make both work better.

As far as using the factory hood "scoops" as a functional ram air intake...i dont' know about that. The concept is good, but think of the water you'll be taking in on a rainy day. If you are going to design something like that make sure it won't soak your filter.

Good luck :)

[3100gagt]

I had a drop in green filter/OEM ram air and SLP and dynoed 158WHP on a mustang dyno

Underdrive pulleys will rid you of the hamonid dampner and cause havac on your internals. if thats worth =>5HP.

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by 3100gagt
Underdrive pulleys will rid you of the hamonid dampner and cause havac on your internals. if thats worth =>5HP.

The 60* V6's are internally balanced so changing the crank pulley won't hurt it.

[slowbird]

Originally posted by Bjornboy81
The 60* V6's are internally balanced so changing the crank pulley won't hurt it.

Exactly. I know lots of people running the Pullies.


...also...adding up Horsepower the way people are doing it on this thread isn't practical. Just cause it says: "adds 6-10hp", doesn't mean your GAGT is now up to 181-185. It just doesn't work that way.

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by slowbird
...also...adding up Horsepower the way people are doing it on this thread isn't practical. Just cause it says: "adds 6-10hp", doesn't mean your GAGT is now up to 181-185. It just doesn't work that way.

Well it kinda does. if you have mods that have nothing to do with each other you could use that method to a point. But when the mods are working together (such as intake and exhaust) the numbers won't add up like that of course. :)

[RocketMan]

I was just outside a few minutes ago taking apart the air box...I'm starting to see what you guys mean by restrictive..not to mention cumbersome. Certainly not the quickest route to the engine.

[RocketMan]

I was doing some thinking about the cia vs ram air thing...not making any statements just thinking out loud here.

Judging by the setup of the Dr. Speed stage 1 and 2 kits, they are essentially a short pipe hooked right up to the TB with a cone filter on the end. Therefore they are sucking atmospheric pressure from within the engine compartment which I will assume to be at least considered "warm". I can see how skin drag is reduced, and the direct route eliminates any vorticity caused by the air changing direction.

Now what if this setup existed but we also put a chopped off Ram air in front of it so that the ram air goes as far as just before the air cleaner box and lets say we point the open conduit at the cone filter of the cia. Exactly the same setup with the exception that we have slightly cooler, ever so slightly higher pressure air, incident on the filter. This hypothetical setup certainly couldn't reduce performance and in theory might even increase it. Now let us say that instead of using the ram air to blow onto the cone filter of the cia, we attach it and seal it to the filter. This becomes vaguely familiar to the setup the ram air had before although i realize the cone filter is different, and the conception of the airbox disappears. But the only justification for the cia on its own getting better performance is that with all the twists and turns and inefficient geometry you end up with a slightly negative pressure by the time you get to the engine, OR the vast amount of piping allows for a lot of heating via radiant heat/convection.

If heat is the culprit, (but many of you mention that ram air isn't that warm), couldn't wrapping the whole piping system in heat shielding/foam increase the R value so that the air doensn't heat up?

If pressure were the issue then I'd have to say I'm fresh out of ideas, the system really would need to be replaced.

Any comments?

[eric99gt]

You're thinking way to much in to this man. It's a simple as Getting a CAI and being done with it. Sure the heat shielding may decrease the temps a bit but not anything worthwhile. What you're talking about up above is the WAI, not the CAI. The CAI sits down inside the fenderwell and receives cold air.

[slowbird]

Yea...all the thinking turns into these few points.

1. CAI = Good
2. CAB = Not as good
3. WAI = okay
4. Stock air box = shitty

[RocketMan]

Point well taken. Thanks :)

[ChevelleSSLS6]

I went from v6 se airbox with stock filter to KN, noticed more response, and now I have a cone filter on it, it's a CAI, and I'm soon to buy a CAI from Red99GAGT once we get enough people to make it worthwhile for him to make them.

Send him a PM and he'll point you in the right direction. -matt