Spark Plugs issues

[Diblue]

O.K. I am new to working on cars this new, so this is all diff to me. My mother has a 2000 Grand Am, 4 Cyl. She had a horrible miss, so we changed the spark plugs and "wires" I got that part down, as to where they are, my question is...

to replace the spark plugs in this car, do you put the boot on the connections under the cover, or on the spark plugs first?

Ok, now, here's what I did.

Opened the cover, removed the old ones, installed the new plugs, put the boots on the cover side, then replaced the cover. Everything seemed to be just fine, however, once driven, the car has a worse miss now than before :mad: I have tried a few diff ways of installing this, to no avail. What am I doing wrong? Should the boot seat firmly down on the cover and the casing around the spark plugs? because there is a gap between the casing, and the lip on the boots. I can't tell that the boot is setting down properly on the spark plugs.

I'm no mechanical noob, but I am a bit of a self taught mechanic. Any advise on this would be more than helpful. I have never worked on this aspect of newer cars, my car is a 91 toyota, I have the old spark plug wires, much easier imo.

[RocketFast321]

That's what i did, I put the boots on the 2.4 twincam cover. Did use ac delco plugs? OEM or rapidfires will work fine. I'm running rapidfire 14 in in the grandam and the 97 malibu 3100. Your coil pack under the 2.4 cover might be bad. What you should do is take the coil to autozone to have it tested.

[Matt95GT]

I'd recommend running nothing but the stock AC Delco Platinum plugs... the 2.3's and 2.4's seem to hate all other plugs. You did gap the plugs, right?

[Diblue]

O.K. Ty all for the quick responses. We got it figured out, I hope. (gonna double check it again this afternoon after my mom gets off work.) My uncle took the car up to Auto Zone last night, and had them run a diagnostic test on it. The code it put out, told them that the #2 cylander wasn't firing. (old code, from before the spark plug swap out) Once they checked it, they reset the computer. After resetting the computer (which had configured itself to compensate for the #2 plug not firing) the car smoothed out. By the time they got it back home, it was still running like a champ again. However, the check engine light has come back on, so will have it diagnosed again today, to insure the plugs are still working right. We might have recieved a bad boot. I used the Bosh Plat. plugs, and did check the gap (0.50 according to the car manual) before installing, though from what I've seen here, providing these are working okay, we will be using AC Delco in the future. TY all again, for the help on this. My main concern was that I NOT do anything to screw up my mom's car, lol.

[00SilverGA]

I have a 2000 GA with the 2.4 also and I had the bosch +4's in it. It ran great for about a year then I started having touble with the car. So I changed the plugs. I have just the regular bosch plats in there and it runs excellent.

[rixGAphx]

Code P0302 means there is a problem with Cylinder #2 misfiring.

The misfiring *might* be ignition, but not necessarily.

The problem could just as easily be fuel injection:
Injector is dirty, or stuck open, or faulty internally; or,
there's an ECM signal problem.

Good luck.
-Rick

[carlover626]

On my 2.4 the gap is .060 inches for the plugs? Would that have changed from 1997 to 2000?
Also, use the AC Delco Platinum plugs that is what I used and I have had no problems.

[Diblue]

I'm not too sure on that, other than to say it must have. I got the .050 straight from the owner's manual.

[00SilverGA]

Originally posted by Diblue
I'm not too sure on that, other than to say it must have. I got the .050 straight from the owner's manual.

Yeah on the 99+ GA's the gap is preset at .050

[Diblue]

well, the check engine light came back on on the car, and a return trip to autozone for a diagnostic run on it, showed the #2 cylinder isn't firing still....not sure if it's bad wires, or the coil.....was the options I was told it would be, really don't think the plug's bad....any thoughts? It's running pretty rough, definately missing, and acts like it's gonna die when started up first time of the day.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by Diblue
well, the check engine light came back on ...showed the #2 cylinder isn't firing still....not sure if it's bad wires, or the coil.....any thoughts?
Here, let me repeat myself a little more forcefully:

CODE P0302 MEANS:
THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH CYLINDER #2 MISFIRING.

THE MISFIRING *MIGHT* BE IGNITION, BUT NOT NECESSARILY.

THE PROBLEM COULD JUST AS EASILY BE FUEL INJECTION:
INJECTOR IS DIRTY, OR STUCK OPEN, OR FAULTY INTERNALLY; OR,
THERE'S AN ECM SIGNAL PROBLEM.

Sorry I had to yell, he doesn’t seem to listen well the first time. :roll2:
-Rick

[Diblue]

sry bout that, didn't go back through and reread like I should have. Been a crazy couple of weeks. I will do some checking into the fuel injection, also my father is looking into weather or not their extended warranty is still in efect. Sry bout that again.
My dad said they just had the injector's cleaned about 20,000 miles ago, and it wasn't even running rough, said it had about 60,000 miles on it at the time. We will check into that though. Is that something that's easy to do yourself?


P.S. He is a She!! :P

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by Diblue
P.S. He is a She!! :P
DOH! :banghead:

On the 4-cyl engines, I understand the fuel rail is pretty easy to get to.

Remove the rail and swap the #2 injector with another.
Reinstall.
Clear codes (disconnect battery for ~15 minutes).

If the problem stays with #2, then the injector ittself is not the problem.
If the problem migrated with the #2 injector to its new position, then that confirms the injector.

On the V-6's, 'swapping' injectors for this test is a PITA and not really worthwhile.

Good luck.
-Rick

[Diblue]

My dad thought about something similar to that last night, only with the wires. I figure when she gets off work today, I'll swap the #1 and the #2 wires, reset the computer, drive it around for a bit, and see if the light comes back on, if it does, have it diagnosed again, and see if it's jumped to the #1 cylinder not firing right. After checking the spark plug in #2 for signs of fouling out. Also, does anyone have a chiltons or haynes manual for these cars, and if so, does it have any self diagnosis section, showing the codes and what they all mean? I'm gonna do some checking into the manuals today, if I'm gonna keep doing car work for her, lol. I understand that this new of a car, has a digital read out tool, but was wondering if there's any way around buying that tool for it. Granted, I can just run it up to auto zone, where they'll check it for free...was just wondering.

[carlover626]

Here is the link for the OBD II code descriptions.
www.obdii.com/codes.html
Good luck!

[Tommy00GT1]

Michael; thanks very much for putting that ODB link there !!!! I've been looking for a site like that.
Could you tell me please if those codes are for a 2000 GT1 too ?
I plan on buying an Actron scan tool very soon. I'm not having any problems here at all; just want to have that tool on hand for future use.

Thanks!
Tommy

[carlover626]

Well I actually pulled it from one of Rick's e-mails. No problem posting it, I love to help out.
Anyhow, I think these codes work for all OBD II systems don't think yours is any different.
Although I do know (thanks to learning from Postimus Maximus Rick) that certain companies also have "Generic" codes in addition to these, but I don't think your Pontiac applies.

[Diblue]

yes, tyvm for the site there, that will be very helpful to us.

[Diblue]

ok, in your personal opinion which repair guide is the better for these cars, the Haynes, or the Chilton's? The extended warranty is out, and it's not the plugs and wires, so I need a good guide for checking/swapping injectors...etc....

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by Diblue
ok, in your personal opinion which repair guide is the better for these cars, the Haynes, or the Chilton's? The extended warranty is out, and it's not the plugs and wires, so I need a good guide for checking/swapping injectors...etc....
Chilton's and Haynes are all one company now (since late '90', IIRC).

I don't know if they even have separate editions for this car.

Both have been about the same for many years:
* Same depth of knowledge.
* Same quality of writing/explanation.
* Same percentage of errors :roll2:
* Both avoid the same things:
*** No explanation of how to rebuild things that are commercially-rebuilt (alternators, steering racks, etc.).
*** No explanation of how to rebuild stuff that is extra-complex or requires specialty tools (CV joints, Tilt Steering columns, auto trannies).
*** Miniscule info on glass/upholstery/body work/lighting.

These are good manuals for Home Mechanics.
They are not the all-encompassing $100+ shop manuals that GM produces for professionals.

Good luck.
-Rick

[RocketFast321]

I like Chilton's

[Diblue]

ok, tyvm. I was not aware that the two books were made from the same company. I have primarilly purchased haynes manuals for cars, for the self diagnostic (for all of my old cars) read outs, and explinations. I didn't know if chilton's had the same or not, as I have not actually looked into a chilton's for my car. The Chilton's manuals around here run about $17.99 where as the Haynes manuals run about $15.99.

[4kQuad]

Local Libraries are also a good source for info and books. The more books you can look at the more info you can gain.

Most will not let you check out those books, but will let you copy off a few pages.

:penny:

[Diblue]

O.K. The car is fixed. It was a combination of two things....the fuel injector, and the Bosch plugs. It now has a new injector, and a set of AC Delco plugs, and purrs like a kitten again. TY all for the advice and help on this.