Oxidation and rust

[Synacle1]

Trying to find out the best way to fix the oxydation of my paint. Got white areas all over the plastics (bumpers and sideskirts). No detailer in this area provides this service that I can find. Furthermore my b pillars have rust on them, its not a major spot but it needs to be solved before it gets out of hand. The black paint has started peeling and the rust is under the paint. Can they simply be replaced? Or do I need to sand them down, prime them and then place a GrafxWerks type overlay on them after? To be honest I HATE washing waxing buffing etc, I'd rasther spend the money to get it done right then deal with it myself. But any direction would be appreciated.

[Synacle1]

BTW heres a few pics of the problems.

[Synacle1]

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[Synacle1]

3

[tenspeed]

You might try a collision/body shop that would do a "doll up". Maybe a high school kid taking shop classes at school or someone working out of their garage.

[Synacle1]

Are the B pillar's simply bolt on? And if so is it possible to get them from the junkyard or a dealer?

[JoeyK]

Your clear coats cooked. Bad, bad UV damage. I know you don't wanna hear this but no detailer in the world can fix this unless they are a painter too.
It'll have to be sanded down & repainted & with that kind of UV damage I doubt the repaint will even come close to matching so you'll have to have it blended to the surrounding panels. (fenders & quarters)

[goredsox]

ya sorry to say but your clearcoat has been eaten away. those spotty circles are paint that has been eaten away. pretty soon it will eat through to the primer and once that is gone... ouch. try goin to a junkyard and find GT bumpers in red, or you will have to live with it, because you wont be able to match the color very well if you have it painted. you said you hate to wash and wax, well if you had done that a few times your bumpers wound not look like that. waxing by hand is tedious but it will bring years of life to your paintjob. wax will form a barrier between the clearcoat/paint and the sun so the UV rays will kill the wax, not your paint job! not to sound arrogant but my 93 has been hand washed and hand waxed all her life and her paint looks very good considering it is 12 years old, except for a few rock chips.

[Synacle1]

Actually I just bought the car 10 days ago. Yes I do hate to wash and wax my cars which is why I take them to a detailer every 2 weeks. To be honest a friend of mine had the car since it was new, since she had a baby she upgraded to a suv. I've decided to pay off all my debt and start placing half my income into a retirement and other investments, so I chose to sell the 2003 Galant I was driving, buy this car, and invest what I was spending on my old monthly payments.

Paints cooked, so be it. But anyone know about the B pillars? Need to stop that situation before the rust gets to the doors themselves.

[goredsox]

how could they get rusted, seems odd since they should have protectant on them. dont know how to fix. if you dont mind me asking why does your GA have the 2.4L four banger in it if its a GT model? i know in my Generation GA you would get the Quad 4 in the Gt model and the V6 was opt., but the 3100 should have been standard on your Gen. Gt, right? But the Quad 4 had 3 levels, OHC, DOHC, and DOHC High Output. the 2.4L is stand alone isnt it? a little off topic tho!

[Synacle1]

In 1997 the GT package was simply a styling badge. As a matter of fact that is true for most GM cars. The GT package adds a front spoiler, lower body cladding, more aggressive shocks, and spoiler-mounted driving lights.
The base model came as a 2.4 twin cam and a 5-speed. Automatic trans and the 3.1 are options. There was only a 5 horse difference between the 2 engines that year, the 2.4 rated 150 and the 3.1 at 155, the torque ratings however (185 vs. 155 lb.-ft.) is what made the diving feel different.


Read a few reviews on the car at newautoseeker.com before buying it. It really hurt my ego to go from driving a 16k blue book car to a $1300 one. But like I said it gives me more freedom to try and retire as early as possible.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Synacle1
In 1997 the GT package was simply a styling badge. As a matter of fact that is true for most GM cars. The GT package adds a front spoiler, lower body cladding, more aggressive shocks, and spoiler-mounted driving lights.

Pretty much all of what you say is true but actually both the front and rear fascias are different on the GT, the GT also has two exhausts (still a single system of course) but the GT has two mufflers. The difference in front fascia isn't really the same as calling it a "front spoiler" (or dam as it is usually called), it's merely a different looking bumper.

There are no lights at all on the [rear] spoiler, but if you mean the front bumper again, the SE also has fogs there too.

Also most GTs will have the interior package with the front map lights (will be on the mirror if the car has a sunroof too); it also includes rear assist handles and lights. Most GTs will also have the leather wrapped wheel and shifter (regardless of whether it has the leather interior).

In Canada all GTs with the 3100 would have had variable assist power steering. This is a strangely distributed option it seems, because in the US the SE with the 2nd option package would also get variable assist power steering, but in Canada my car actually has the second option package but I do not have variable assist steering. Just a strange little note.

Welcome to the forum anyway. :) As ppl have said your clearcoat has gone bad. The car may be able to be re-cleared by a good body shop, and not need painting but that remains to be seen I guess.

One caution about the bumpers on 96-98s. The factory bumpers should not have been painted. They were molded in the colour of the car. However, this is not the case for cars damaged in collisions or being damaged otherwise because the bumpers may have been repainted. Also replacement parts, even new are not available in the colours, you just get black. Painting a bumper is the worst thing (believe me I have two now painted bumpers on my car :( ). Even with the flex agents they still stone chip and it looks horrible, particularly the front bumper. If you have an original bumper dings from stones are completely different since the bumper was molded in the colour and you don't notice at all.

I'm not sure if yours were painted before or not, but that clear coming off like that makes me think they were.

If you can replace the bumper cover(s) with good condition, never painted ones in the same colour that is your best option. Otherwise look into re-clearing them, if you can.

[PontiacGT]

uh..............I didn't think you could oxidize plastic, lol.

Doesn't rust usually occurr on metal...

[JoeyK]

You cannot just simply "reclear" a UV damaged paintjob - just so you don't get your hopes up. Also, yes, plastic can in effect oxidize. The UV penetrates & dries out the plastic, it gets all chaulky & oxidezed.

Also, bumpers are not molded in "colors" unless it's an unpainted, textured bumper. Any factory painted bumper will be of the natural plastic color underneath.
All Grand am's reguardless of the year has painted bumpers.

EDIT; I perhaps should elaborate. I have been in the automotive paint industry for over 15 years & have never encountered a 96 to 98 Grand Am with a color molded bumper.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Also, bumpers are not molded in "colors" unless it's an unpainted, textured bumper. Any factory painted bumper will be of the natural plastic color underneath.
All Grand am's reguardless of the year has painted bumpers.

EDIT; I perhaps should elaborate. I have been in the automotive paint industry for over 15 years & have never encountered a 96 to 98 Grand Am with a color molded bumper.

Interesting that you say that. The bumpers from the factory have some amount of colour molding though, no? Perhaps not completely through but there has to be some right?

I'll mention two reasons. One because when my car was involved in a light front end accident (when someone ran a red light in front of me) that's exactly what the GM body shop told me. They had to repaint the bumper (because my insurance company is retarded and wouldn't pay for an entire bumper cover since it wasn't actually broken). They said they do add flex agents but it will never be the same as when it was new. I even asked if I could pay for an new bumper cover out of my own pocket but they said that a replacement cover would be the same--made to be painted--the only way to get the original coloured bumper was when the cars were manufactured.

They were 100% correct about it "never being the same". I'd never had anything that could be described as a "stone chip" in my bumper before that--but I'd hit many stones through highway driving. In fact I'd even hit a flying hubcap off another car once with the original un-touched bumper. That and any stone chips weren't AT ALL noticeable--just marks but still completely the same colour as the bumper. Within a year after the repaint I started noticing stone chips (with white underneath so it looks terrible) on the front bumper. Today it is much worse, I actually want to get rid of the bumper and find a front bumper, never painted from a wreckers to replace it (in the same colour of course).

I see many 96-98 GAs out there with similar kms as mine, never been repainted and you can definitely tell. There are absolutely no horrible stone chips in the bumpers, like you see on my car. Most times it is just seeing the car parked and looking at the odo, other times I actually ask the owner if the bumper's been repainted.

Now you might say that it was a bad paint job, but first of all the paint was done at what should have been a competent shop. Second of all (and also my second reason from the above) my rear bumber was also hit lightly but no bad damage in a prior event at a traffic light where someone started moving behind me. Never claimed on insurance. There were two impressions in the bumper but again no change in colour. The paint actually stayed perfectly fine thereafter as well--it stayed like that for years.

When I was rear-ended years later in a traffic accident, the bumper had to be repainted. Since then, it seemed that in a parking lot "drive-off" my bumper was hit again, pretty lightly. Actually seems it was lighter than the very first light hit on my bumper back when I had the small impressions in it. However this hit, the paint looks quite bad there and there are hairline cracks in the paint on the bumper. This never happened on the original "paint" on the bumper.

I can't see how all of this could be true and what the very first dealership body shop told me about the bumper covers way back when I first had a bumper repaint be false. It doesn't make any sense to me.

All I know is I'd really like to have original, never re-painted bumpers on my car now, because from everything I've seen there is no substitute for them. In fact if this was back at the very first repaint I'd have offered anyone that thinks otherwise my bumper, repainted plus additional cash for their original bumper in the same colour. If anyone would be silly enough to do that, they'd get the bad end of the deal. Sure the bumper would look brand new right away and theirs might look worse but just wait a few years and then take a look at the two--the never-painted one will look 1000x better from what I've seen.

[JoeyK]

Interesting? I don't know what that means. What I said is pretty much fact.

No, factory bumpers have no color molded in the plastic unless it's a textured bumper cover. Not the case with a Grand Am. You find that more with trucks & mini vans. Why would they mold color in a part that is to be painted? What is to gain? Do you know how much plastic color concentrate costs? It's be a huge added extra cost to the part with no benefit at all. ( Aside from painting about everything under the sun at one time or another I also painted in & ran a painting dept. in a plastics plant)

First I agree, they are almost never as good as the factory job. Perhaps in appearence but most times not in durability. First off you have to understand the paint that is applied to a factory bumper is much different than what will be applied ina body shop. Bumpers are most generally painted by the supplier, not with the car. Usually a hybrid urethane formulation is applied to plastic parts by these suppliers. It is specially formulated for pastics. What you will get in a body shop is formulated to cover a variety of materials. When it is put on a flexible parts, such as a bumper flex additive is added. This by no means makes it as durable as the paint that was applied by the bumper manufacturer/ supplier.

Secondly yes, alot has to do with the bodyshop & even the best shops can make mistakes or better yet the people who are performing the work may take the time to do it right or they mat be rushed for whatever reason & skimp on the prep work. Prep work is key to a durable, long lasting bumper job. ( Or any paint job for that matter) The problems you have experienced could be a result of any number of causes.

1) Oils & or mold releases left in the plastic.

2) Poor sanding of the bumper

3) lack of proper cleaning & or cleaning chemicals proir to painting

4) Lack of adhesion promoter.

5) Poor quality paints & primers/ materials in general.

6) Improper mixture & or application of said paints, primers / materials.

7) Remanufactured bumpers & or aftermarket bumpers; are a headache in themselves.
A) Many times the aftermarket is so loaded with oils & mold releases that it's almost impossible to get them out. Although I have a time consuming trick I use on EVERY aftermarket bumper because I do not wanna get bit in the ass. it's my name & rep on that car after all. - I bake the bumper for a good half hour to raise all the contaminants to the surface so they can be easily removed with plastic wash.

B) Remanufactured bumers, well, you never know what's under there. You see a reman. is a bumper that a vendor has boughten from a bodyshop that needs collision repair. It is usually a bumper that was replaced per ins. estimate but these vendors will buy them in bulk from bigger shops, repair them & reprime them. many times they are not sanded properly before application of the service primer. Then the primer lest go very easily in many situations, including stone chips. when the primer lets go of course, the paint goes with.

I could go on & on & on... well, you get the pic. Im not here to give that of an indepth painting lesson.:lol:


Anyways you now have a little more in depth explanation as to what's what.

I just read your post again. I do not know exactly what that body shop told you about the paint not matching. From what I read you should get far- far away from that body shop & never go back. What a crock. I assume they didn't want to take time to propperly match color for you. The ins. co. most likely would not pay for a blend & so they said it will never match to have thier hands washed of the situation. Most bumpers do not match when a car is new for the abve reasons I metioned. So the ins. cites this as thier reason to not pay to blend you bumper with the fenders. I usually just blend them anyways & not charge the customer. But in certian cases I cannot so it takes alot of time to get the paint to match perfectly.
And I'm not even going to go into paint variences again.... although there is a thread here somewhere where I explained that all.

Actually, here it is; http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47793

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Anyways you now have a little more in depth explanation as to what's what.


Thanks for the explanation. I dunno why they originally told me it was molded then but it just made sense considering what I have seen with my bumpers after they were painted.

Again this brings about an "interesting" question... Since you said that body shops don't paint the bumper as the supplier would, why not? I mean if there is a way to do it, why don't bodyshops paint the bumpers the same way that the supplier does or send them to a facility where it can be done? I'm guessing you are going to say cost? Well the thing is since your insurance company is supposed to be insuring you and you pay them all kinds of money for that coverage, I think the car should be repaired to a level of quality it had before you required that coverage. I mean that is supposed to be why I pay for (collision) insurance! To me the cost doesn't matter--that's why I pay the stinkin' insurance company thosands of dollars while they laugh all the way to the bank and then chinch me when they have to actually pay. :mad:

Originally posted by JoeyK
I just read your post again. I do not know exactly what that body shop told you about the paint not matching.


Hmm, I wonder if you're either confused on that point or someone else mentioned it, or perhaps you weren't referring to me. I didn't actually say that any body shop ever told me about the colour not matching--in fact they've always assured good colour matching. What they did say [to me] was that the bumper would never be the same after repainting (meaning the appearance after stone chips, etc.). And they were not wrong.

Originally posted by JoeyK
And I'm not even going to go into paint variences again.... although there is a thread here somewhere where I explained that all.


Well thanks for the info anyway. I'm really interested in why insurance companies are so retarded. Well I know why, it's their bottom line, it's money in their pockets and they couldn't care less about gouging you for years and then paying out little compared to what they probably should be paying out. As my car is fairly old now, it really is pointless anyway, because the value of the car is less than what any future accident repair would cost (hopefully there will never be a future accident), so they'll just write off the car and give me like $2 for it :roll2:

But back when the car was newer and the original damage/repaint was done, that's another story... The end result is that I'm going to have to keep my eye out for a bumper from a car that has never been painted, in the same colour as my car, if I really want to get a nice looking bumper on my car and have it stay that way. The unfortunate part is, it is probably cheaper to just get an aftermarket body-kit type bumper which will look better at least, though still not last through stone chips for more than a year.