3800 in a 96?

[matt rupke]

i found a 2002 3800 s/c out of a bonneville it comes with the axel, trany, then engine, and the computer. would it be possible to fit it into a 96 2 door se?

[gran_dam98]

sure, anything is possible with the right amount of money.. but in this case.. how bad do you really want it?? :)

www.l67swap.com may help you out....

[matt rupke]

well so far its up to about 700 dollars and its like 200 dollars shipping and i have about 1200 and ill be getting at least 200 come christmas

[litdevil316]

a 3800sc in a 96 2dr would be killer. weight could be an issue tho. that 3800 weighs a good bit more then the 2.4 or even the 3.1s used in the 96s. but i dont think it would be too much an issue. and that motor in a car that already weighs about 2800lbs would be killer, i do think so.

[Dallas_95GT]

If I remember right.... Jason, the webmaster of the "other board" was doing this to his '95. I have no idea what ever came of this project.....

[Korbendallas68]

It was finished, but the car still doesn't run right.

Not Worth It.

[matt rupke]

yeah i no it would be killer thats y i wana do it. my friend raced his moms 2002 bonneville downtown with the govener off and blew up then engine at about 160. and thats a car thats about 1000 pounds heavier than mine. but the thing is, how hard would it be to put in my car?

[MantaGreen97]

The transmission will bolt up (well if you had a 3100 GA, but you don't so I'm not sure--you might need to get the tranny too) and the rest ain't easy either.

Have to fabricate mounts, and then you're looking at a 3800 computer to run the thing but then other stuff in the car won't work (like the gauges and that probably won't work right--you'll have to swap a GP's gauges in which wouldn't fit the dash either). Then you gotta somehow get the PassKey to run, so you'd need a different ignition cylinder, key, etc. Though you might be able to get it programmed out of the PCM.

But the list goes on--you're going to run into a lot of things you'll have to figure out ways to work around and both time and money spent are gonna go through the roof (compared to what you're thinking which is just the cost of the engine).

You're better off swapping in an LA1 (3400) but again, you don't have a 3100 to begin with, so it's the same story--perhaps a new tranny and definitely a PCM from a 3100 car.

If you have a manual transmission you're running into another pretty big headache. If the 3800 (or even the 3400) will bolt to the 5-spd, it's another workaround to get one of those working with the manual. It's been done with the L67 (3800 SC) but you're looking at a lot of money spent.

You're better off doing mods to your 2.4 TC or getting another car.

[urweak]

Originally posted by Korbendallas68
It was finished, but the car still doesn't run right.

Not Worth It.

last i hear it worked fine. he had it out a few times but didnt have much time to enjoy it.

[urweak]

Originally posted by Dallas_95GT
If I remember right.... Jason, the webmaster of the "other board" was doing this to his '95. I have no idea what ever came of this project.....

it was a 93 and it was GMPT not "the other board" as in GMP

[matt rupke]

so how much do u think it would cost other than getting the engine, trany, axel, and the computer?

[BBT]

Originally posted by matt rupke
well so far its up to about 700 dollars and its like 200 dollars shipping and i have about 1200 and ill be getting at least 200 come christmas

I don't want to sound harsh, but you don't have enough money. Spend it elsewhere and have some fun with it.

Maybe buy a bike to have some fun with. Something like that. Because you don't have nearly enough buckazoids to make this work.

Unless of course, you really want to learn how to do a lot of mechanical work, fabrication and such. If that's your aim, then go for it. But if you're thinking cheap performance......nuh-uh.

[matt rupke]

im not looking for cheap performance, i no performance isnt cheap. and my dad is great with engines. he has built many of his own trucks, and i have many other friends who take automotive classes in college. and i dont want to get mods for my 2.4l cause it already has 160k miles on its and there isnt many mods for it.

[MantaGreen97]

LOL you aren't getting discouraged even eh? Well if you have to ask, honestly, I'd say in that case you shouldn't be asking...

I mean it isn't going to be like a million dollars or anything but it is going to cost a lot, particularly if you're paying someone to do this work and not doing it on your own. Definitely going to be far more than the car is worth, I will tell you that much.

Plus it will probably take a significant amount of time, probably a lot of trial-and-error involved and a lot of figuring things out. If it is your main means of transportation/main car, think about that as well--you'll be without a car for a good while.

I don't think anyone will be able to tell you how much it will cost--it's one of those things you'll just end up continually throwing money into, unless you're doing it yourself.

[matt rupke]

i would be doing most of it myself with the help of my dad and friends cause i no how much mechanics would rip me off cause there a$$'s like that. then engine im thinking of getting is a complete front end drop out so that would make it a little bit easier. i'd just have to shorten the axel and fabricate some new engine mounts. the hard part would be getting the computer to work

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by matt rupke
im not looking for cheap performance, i no performance isnt cheap. and my dad is great with engines. he has built many of his own trucks, and i have many other friends who take automotive classes in college. and i dont want to get mods for my 2.4l cause it already has 160k miles on its and there isnt many mods for it.

There are tons of performance parts and things you can do for the 2.4L TC engine.

If this is a project you will attempt on your own/with the help of your dad then that's another story. If you really want to do it, park the car ('cause you ain't going to be driving it for a long time, lol); and pull the engine, tranny, and whatever you have to. Get a hold of the guy that has done the swap and see if he'll be nice enough to help you out. If you can get his "formula" or any documentation he made of the swap, then you're a big step ahead. Then get your engine and whatever else you need and go for it.

But, again, if you're gonna pay for this to be done it's a whole other story.

[matt rupke]

getting it done by someone else would probably cost more than the dropout i would be getting

and i cannot find anything for a 96 2.4 out there
just that shiity induction dynamics rip off

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by matt rupke
so how much do u think it would cost other than getting the engine, trany, axel, and the computer?

$2000-5000.

Originally posted by matt rupke
getting it done by someone else would probably cost more than the dropout i would be getting

and i cannot find anything for a 96 2.4 out there
just that shiity induction dynamics rip off

Learn how to search/research. Thanks to the Cavs and Sunfires, the 2.4 has more aftermarket than any other GA engine. *cough*search J-body.org*cough*

[litdevil316]

j-body, rsm, and a bunch of other ppl have parts for the 2.4L. i have one my self back home and I did the searching and asking around for parts. and i got it.

[Korbendallas68]

Not to be a a-sshole.... But,

I say it again, not worth it.

Like BBT said, buy something worth the money.

And BS on the part "Not for performance" what else would you put it in there for?? You just talked about someone blowing up their moms car going 160.... You seem pretty intent on going 180 in your GA.... Keep dreaming.

Who cares anyway this topic is done, your only #9,345 person to tell us you want a 3800 in your GA and how much does it cost.

:lol:

[Sweet98GA]

^^ dude why do u have to be a dick?

first off, who cares why he's doin the swap...

second, who cares if he's the millionth person to ask about it? If ure just gonna bash people who are having a hope or a dream ill make it my mission to tear you apart in every post you make, and if u dont believe me, as a mod how many warning points ive accumulated on this site....

be nice, or dont bother posting... its alot easier to click the back button than it is to type and click submit

[matt rupke]

i never said it was not for perfomance. it is, y else would i want it in my car? better gas mileage. HA and im not gona be doing 180 cause im not gona take the governor off cause im not gona blow up the engine. i just want to get faster that the 105 i can in my car now.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by sweet98gagt
second, who cares if he's the millionth person to ask about it? If ure just gonna bash people who are having a hope or a dream ill make it my mission to tear you apart in every post you make, and if u dont believe me, as a mod how many warning points ive accumulated on this site....


Well it does get a little annoying when ppl always talk about doing such a swap and no one does it, lol. And when someone asks "how much is it going to cost" in something like this (a swap that is by-and-large unexplored and has unknown costs) it does get a little tedious trying to explain that to them while they continue to ask something like "how much is a lot?" or "how much is unknown?" :roll2: Like why keep asking how much it costs when no one can give you an answer?

Originally posted by sweet98gagt
be nice, or dont bother posting... its alot easier to click the back button than it is to type and click submit

I don't think it was a matter of him not being nice either--at least I didn't see it that way. He's just being realistic/practical. Certainly anyone is welcome to do the swap if they want to try, but that isn't the point. From the sounds of it, it's like this car is his primary car/daily driver. It may not be but that is just what it seems like. This is more a project for someone that isn't using the car for a daily driver (i.e. they have other car(s)) and don't mind putting up with delays, headaches and increasing costs of such a project. This is just being realistic, IMO.

And of course if he does the swap I'm sure lots of people would be really interested in how he did it, a step-by-step, etc. But its one of those things that people "want to do" but never really end up doing simply because it isn't that practical a swap. For some people practical isn't important (I mean we've seen a V8 in a Grand Am with a RWD conversion), but most people don't attempt these things, particluarly a 3800 into a GA which is why we've only seen like 2 or 3 instances of it.

Personally, I agree with Korben in this case, but that's just my $0.02. I'm not being "not nice" and I'm not bashing anyone I'm just saying what the reality is.

[VanishingImage]

I don't know if anyone has read about the guy with the red 99+ GA with the Andy's kit on it,he did the 3800 swap,might as well ask him if he thinks its worth it because hes got it done and running. Ive been thinking about doing the same thing to my 97. It is a lot of work to do the swap,but thats the point,if you love or have the need to do that type of thing why shouldn't the guy do it?

Personally, I think the 2.4 is the wrong engine for the GA,its perfect for the J-bodies. The GA should have come with nothing but the v6 because of its weight and the 3800 in a 92-98 GA is more then enough and would prolly be a beast in it with it all done right. I dunno what Im actually gonna be doing but I know its gonna be something with some actual hard work with the engine.

I say give the guy some help or show him the way to find it,hate seeing people turn other people away with comments like "do some research dude"

[matt rupke]

thanks vanish. but its ok, ill just laugh when im on her posting pictures of a nice big new engine that everyone will be jealous of:D

[Bjornboy81]

That's the attitude man. Even if you fail, at least you tried ;)

[matt rupke]

yeah true. if i fail i can always just put the o'l 2.4 back in. its not like i need to drive places that friends cant take me.

[VanishingImage]

I just hope I would be able to do the swap a little easier since I work at a GM dealership and learning the ins and outs of the 3800 engine,even tho there is 3 series of them,Series 1 2 and 3,which is the newest with all aluminum

[Cipher]

Just as an outsiders point of view, you CAN acheive the same performance (mostly) from the 2.4 that you can from this 3800, if youve got 1200 or whatever bucks start at the bottom and work up, start working through the cam swap and intake, fabricate a CAI, hell, you could even buy a new 2.4 junkyard pull and build it from the ground up.

Im all for originality, its what makes tuners want to be tuners (other then yuppie ricers), but youll be in for a long long road of pricey roadblocks even if you do know exactly what youre doing.

Best of luck either way though.

[Sweet98GA]

^^ he does have a point... there is a turbo thread (dont remember user name, but ill look it up for ya) and he said he did a lot of research to find out all the high-end products needed to make sure his boost wouldnt blow his motor, so that is another option you can look into.... also... if you do this swap, please document everything.... every step, problems you ran into, things you had to fabricate, etc and then type it up and post it (it'll be made a sticky)...that way any future questions about this swap can be answered from ure documentation :)

[ManktheTank19]

Company that does the swap:
http://www.engineered.net/

The 1993 Grand AM GT with the 3.8sc
http://www.gmperformancetuning.com/promocar/promocar/JamzGT3.8SC2.JPG

I would ask the company and inform them that you are trying to do this on your own and ask how much does it cost for this company to do it. The guy who has this business is a member on gagt.com(I think don't qupte me on this)

[VanishingImage]

Originally posted by ManktheTank19
Company that does the swap:
http://www.engineered.net/

The 1993 Grand AM GT with the 3.8sc
http://www.gmperformancetuning.com/promocar/promocar/JamzGT3.8SC2.JPG

I would ask the company and inform them that you are trying to do this on your own and ask how much does it cost for this company to do it. The guy who has this business is a member on gagt.com(I think don't qupte me on this)

that looks sexy:D Looks like a Series III 3.8 too with the SC

[ManktheTank19]

******Sorry to get off topic*******
1) Are there any turbos for the 3.8L?
2) Wouldn't a stock 3.8L with an aftermarket sc have more hp that the stock 3.8L sc?

[matt rupke]

Originally posted by ManktheTank19
Company that does the swap:
http://www.engineered.net/

The 1993 Grand AM GT with the 3.8sc
http://www.gmperformancetuning.com/promocar/promocar/JamzGT3.8SC2.JPG

I would ask the company and inform them that you are trying to do this on your own and ask how much does it cost for this company to do it. The guy who has this business is a member on gagt.com(I think don't qupte me on this)

i did get ahold of them. there based in georgia and it would cost 3,000 to 3500 to do the swap. so i say f that ill do it myself:lol:. the only thing that is gona confuse me besides getting the computer right is shortning the axels. i read something about it and it confused the hell out of me what he was talking about. by the way mank do you know whos ga with the 3800 s/c that is?

[VanishingImage]

is that for the whole swap,meaning including all the parts or just for them to install the parts that will have to be bought seperately?

[VanishingImage]

Originally posted by ManktheTank19
******Sorry to get off topic*******
1) Are there any turbos for the 3.8L?
2) Wouldn't a stock 3.8L with an aftermarket sc have more hp that the stock 3.8L sc?

depends. You can get smaller pulleys for the stock 3.8 SC and get the ECU chipped.

[matt rupke]

i think that price is with me giving them the drop out and them putting it in my car. he said there was a lot of fabrication to do. but there cant be that much seeing as the engine im looking at buy comes with the entire drive tran and engine mounts and all that good stuff with it

[Themeneea]

Originally posted by ManktheTank19
******Sorry to get off topic*******
1) Are there any turbos for the 3.8L?
2) Wouldn't a stock 3.8L with an aftermarket sc have more hp that the stock 3.8L sc?

there are turbos. the most popular is carturning. there are no aftermarket S/C's that i know of. The S/C will get you into the low 13's, but if you want to get even faster, you need a turbo

[ManktheTank19]

As what I understand is the 3000 to 3500 is for everything, motor, trans, install and etc. (don't qupte me on this, someone told me this a year ago because I had this link in my favorites plus many more custom stuff)

[urweak]

AIM JAM583 , He is the co-owner of GMPT and that 93 GAGT with the 3800 s/c swap or go to www.gmperformancetuning.com and pm JAMZ (same person)

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by ManktheTank19
******Sorry to get off topic*******
1) Are there any turbos for the 3.8L?
2) Wouldn't a stock 3.8L with an aftermarket sc have more hp that the stock 3.8L sc?
Yes, mattsgtp on here has a Grand Prix F1 that is turbocharged.

Before the intercooler.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/mattsgtp1/10-17-2004-1023.jpg

Intercooler.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattsf1/ICIC.jpg

And just because it's so sexy...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/mattsgtp1/11-14-2004-1033.jpg

And Yes and No on #2. You can purchase many items for the stock blower to incress it's boost and performance easily.
Originally posted by Themeneea
The S/C will get you into the low 13's, but if you want to get even faster, you need a turbo
Thats not true, there are supercharged 3800s running faster than 13s.

[matts]

that GP looks GREAT. that blue on silver is a nice touch, and that paint looks flawless in the pic. :gravey:


im not sure what my moms bonneville was running in the 1/4, never ran it. but it has a smaller pulley and flowmaster on it. tranny isn't doing to hot right now though.

[matt rupke]

:mad:
damnit i almost had the engine. i was winning bidder at 1025 and in the last minute and 30 seconds it went from that up to 2500

anybody know were i can find another 3800 for sale?

[ManktheTank19]

Wow that turbo set up looks crazy. There is no room in the Grand AM to do that if anybody has a stock 3.8L

So in the end, what sc will be better if you upgrade the factory and aftermarket with the same type of upgrades to both sc?

Another one, can the guy with that awesome turbo grand prix destroy the sc version (even aftermarket?) Because that is one big turbo and looks like it can destroy many sports cars.

ex: firebird, camaro, mustang, 80's thunderbird, and the buick gnx10

Originally posted by TA^Guy
Yes, mattsgtp on here has a Grand Prix F1 that is turbocharged.

Before the intercooler.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/mattsgtp1/10-17-2004-1023.jpg

Intercooler.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/mattsf1/ICIC.jpg

And just because it's so sexy...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/mattsgtp1/11-14-2004-1033.jpg

And Yes and No on #2. You can purchase many items for the stock blower to incress it's boost and performance easily.

Thats not true, there are supercharged 3800s running faster than 13s.

[VanishingImage]

Originally posted by matt rupke
:mad:
damnit i almost had the engine. i was winning bidder at 1025 and in the last minute and 30 seconds it went from that up to 2500

anybody know were i can find another 3800 for sale?

try a junk yard,there are some cars that have that engine other then GP's, Most Buicks have the 3800,a few even came with the SC version as well so try and check all your local junkyards,prolly can get all that stuff for cheap

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by matt rupke
:mad:
damnit i almost had the engine. i was winning bidder at 1025 and in the last minute and 30 seconds it went from that up to 2500

anybody know were i can find another 3800 for sale?

$2500 US for an L67? Is that how much they usually go for? I would have guessed they'd have been a lot cheaper than that (?)...

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by VanishingImage
that looks sexy:D Looks like a Series III 3.8 too with the SC

That (in that picture before) was a Series-II (L67) engine, according to the plastic cover at least... The Series-III S/C (L32) has a different plastic cover. There's no red lines on it, the "3800 Series III" lettering is much smaller and lower down and the "Supercharged" text is also smaller and over on the left instead of in the centre.

[matt rupke]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
$2500 US for an L67? Is that how much they usually go for? I would have guessed they'd have been a lot cheaper than that (?)...

hell no bran new crate engine 3800 series 2 s/c go for 3795

the one i was looking at only had 8k miles and came with tranny, axel, drive train, computer, and all that good stuff so 2500 is still a good deal. i dont even think that was the reserve for it either

[ChevelleSSLS6]

Originally posted by sweet98gagt
^^ dude why do u have to be a dick?

first off, who cares why he's doin the swap...


be nice, or dont bother posting... its alot easier to click the back button than it is to type and click submit

I was thinking the same thing, it goes to your sig (made by me and I'm ok with you using it) and I know some people get all offended with the term 'ricer' but for me I use it as people who want the race car looks and maybe someday better performance than stock, but then again, it's their car. They just have different priorities than me. Some guys want the performance, some want looks, and others a bit of both. Kinda like college, some kids go for the parties, others go to learn, and others a bit of both.

[matt rupke]

HAHA!! i found another 3800 series 2 but its not supercharged. how much does a supercharger cost for a 3800 series 2?

[MantaGreen97]

^ Keep in mind the L36 (non-S/C 3800) and the L67 are not actually the exact same engine. I.e. The L67 is not simply an L36 + S/C. It has several differences, among them the compression ratio which is significantly lower on the L67...

There may indeed be an S/C for the L36 (I don't know really) but it isn't going to be the same thing as taking the blower off the L67 and putting it on the non-S/C 3800--it will probably be lower boost at the very least, and it would differ in design.

[nice96gt]

Just do the 3400 swap and call it a day...

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by ManktheTank19
Wow that turbo set up looks crazy. There is no room in the Grand AM to do that if anybody has a stock 3.8L

So in the end, what sc will be better if you upgrade the factory and aftermarket with the same type of upgrades to both sc?

Another one, can the guy with that awesome turbo grand prix destroy the sc version (even aftermarket?) Because that is one big turbo and looks like it can destroy many sports cars.

ex: firebird, camaro, mustang, 80's thunderbird, and the buick gnx10
Yes, his turbo setup is faster than his modified SC.

For more details maybe he'll jump in here. He's not on here all that much but his screen name is Mattsgtp.

[ManktheTank19]

Thanks for all the help John

[urweak]

Originally posted by matt rupke
:mad:
damnit i almost had the engine. i was winning bidder at 1025 and in the last minute and 30 seconds it went from that up to 2500

anybody know were i can find another 3800 for sale?

You should save some more money and buy the GM supercharger.

[matt rupke]

for my 2.4 that already has 160k miles on it?

[89Proof]

Read Mr. Matt Rupke's posts carefully and ask yourself if it's really worth devoting any more time to this tread...

Originally posted by matt rupke
yeah i no it would be killer thats y i wana do it. my friend raced his moms 2002 bonneville downtown with the govener off and blew up then engine at about 160. and thats a car thats about 1000 pounds heavier than mine. but the thing is, how hard would it be to put in my car?


Originally posted by matt rupke
i would be doing most of it myself with the help of my dad and friends cause i no how much mechanics would rip me off cause there a$$'s like that. then engine im thinking of getting is a complete front end drop out so that would make it a little bit easier. i'd just have to shorten the axel and fabricate some new engine mounts. the hard part would be getting the computer to work


Originally posted by matt rupke
i never said it was not for perfomance. it is, y else would i want it in my car? better gas mileage. HA and im not gona be doing 180 cause im not gona take the governor off cause im not gona blow up the engine. i just want to get faster that the 105 i can in my car now.


Originally posted by matt rupke
thanks vanish. but its ok, ill just laugh when im on her posting pictures of a nice big new engine that everyone will be jealous of:D

Tell me this guy's joking, right?

[matt rupke]

if its not worth devoting anymore time then y did u take the time to get all my posts?

[mattsgtp]

I had a custom intercooler and a slightly smaller pulley on my SC'd GP and dyno'd at 229 wheel hp.

We then designed the turbo kit, had it fabbed and bolted it on. The only modification to the car besides the turbo and piping were putting on an NA intake manifold . The car then put down 339.5 whp.

100 whp isn't bad for no tune, no fueling upgrades.. just a bolt-on. Turbos ARE more efficient and a LOT more tune-able. With tuning and larger injectors, a decent turbo is capable of over 400 whp easy. Then add the small stuff like rockers or a cam and you'll have insane numbers and be in the 11s or 10s for sure.

The M90 SCs are good for more than 13s. ZZperformance as well as other people have them in the 9s or 10s (don't remember which one). Check their site for aftermarket SC options too. You can put on a Novi, Whipple, etc... The M90 isn't the only option.

Also, if you're getting an L36 (NA 3800 series II), you can put on an aftermarket SC, but the stock SC will be a LOT of work. Check out www.lynoise.com if you want to see how to supercharge an l36 with the stock blower.

If you're looking for a drop out L67 or L32 email this guy: www.moradpartscompany.com
He has EVERYTHING you'd need out of a GP and is a GREAT guy.

Thanks for the comments John and everyone else.
Good luck.

[TA^Guy]

Matt thanks for filling us all in, I knew you were the man to speak to when it came to this.

I'm sure when your have time they like to see or hear about what is up your sleaves for your car. I think it fits right in with this thread. :wink: