6.5"'s up front in a '97?

[airbornflght]

does anyone know how to go about mounting 6.5" inch speakers up front in a '97 grand am.

i know you do it onto the door panel, and someone, (cant remember) told me that they had a template for mdf to be able to keep the stock grill.

does anyone have instructions to do this.

and also, does anyone have a mastersheet, or documentation on how to take out the rear seat/deck, and the front door panels?

i have a 2 door 97 gaGT

[nice96gt]

This has been done in many 92-98 GA's. 6.5's are easy to install. Quetsion is, will you be using the stock grills (which it sounds like you want to) or will you be using the aftermarket grills that come with the speakers? Whichever you decide will depend on how you will go about mounting them. I have done the speaker template so let me know and I will hook you up with it if you need it.

Here is a how-to for the door panel removal if you weren't sure as to how to do it.
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45585

As for the rear deck removal...it's quite simple as long as you have the right size torx bit for removing the seatbelt bolts. This should help you.

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29833

[airbornflght]

yeh. i wanna use the stock grills. I dont want to advertise that i have an aftermarket system. id rather keep it in my car. thx for the info.

[nice96gt]

PM me your email and I will hook you up with a template :)

[PontiacGT]

^PM

[nice96gt]

All I would worry about is the mounting depth, if you have to, just make the mounting plate thicker, or put 2 together so that the speaker is far enough away from the window. You shouldn't have to worry, but just make sure. :)

[airbornflght]

the speakers im gonna use have a mounting depth of ~ 2.5" ill probably use a sheet of mdf to keep me clear of the window.

[Jibo]

Yep Ryan's template worked wonders for me :D

[Tyler_S]

Will the template work on a 95?

How much are you asking per template?

[MantaGreen97]

^ will work on a 92-95, but as per that other thread, it seems you just can't make the baffle that thick due to the design of the door panel.

As for the templates, I'm sure he's not charging for them; but it is just a template so you can make a baffle yourself. At least that is what it sounds like.

[Tyler_S]

Wow, that was fast...

Would it be possible to make one out of metal?

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by airbornflght
the speakers im gonna use have a mounting depth of ~ 2.5" ill probably use a sheet of mdf to keep me clear of the window.

On the 96-98 you'll be able to use a baffle of up to 1/2". Be sure to line up the speaker hole with the baffle in place without the large hole drilled for the speaker and with the door panel on with the little grille off. (Tip: Remove the grille on the opposite side of the door panel by unscrewing the four round retainers--do not attempt to remove the grille from the outside of the door panel.)

It might be that Ryan's template provides for the speaker hole (I've never seen it) but since many 6.5" drivers will mount slightly differently it is a good idea to measure it up first. You may also have to cut away a very small amount of material from the door panel opening where the grille is depending on your speaker size.

Also note that if you use MDF for the baffle, it will water rot over time from the water that leaks in on the inside of the door. Either polyurethane or paint (with something like rubberised rockerguard) the MDF so that it is waterproofed as well as possible. I've used MDF in the past and water rotted a few baffles; instead the last time I used polycarbonate (plastic) to avoid the water problems.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Tyler_S
Wow, that was fast...

Would it be possible to make one out of metal?

Yep it would. However you'd have to be able to cut that metal yourself which is usually a pain 'cause metal ain't to easy to cut with a standard jigsaw. I'd recommend plastic like PVC or polycarbonate (aka lexan) or acrylic (aka plexiglas). Note that for plexi, you will need special drill bits and saw blades, which is why I went with polycarbonate.

You'll need approx. 2 square feet of the material to make 2 baffles (one for each door). 2 sq.ft. of 1/2" PC cost me like $25 CDN :(

Alternately you can just buy the eBay ones which are made out of 1/4" PVC, I think they are like $10 US + shipping. 1/4" is probably better if you have a 92-95 because it was mentioned that 1/2" is too thick for the door panel.

[PontiacGT]

I wouldn't even know where to buy this PVC or Plexi...

I suppose this would work eh?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8233765657

[MantaGreen97]

Yeah link doesn't work--stupid eBay.

But you can get it there or just use your yellow pages and look under plastic suppliers. Just find a place open to the public and call them up/look on their website if they have one.

I don't know how much PVC costs, I think the plexi was around the same price as the polycarbonate; but with plexi, again, you need special bits/blades.

[MantaGreen97]

K, here is a pic of my door, with the panel off and the baffle on. Just to give you an idea at what it looks like. Silver stuff on the door is Raamat60 and the driver is a Focal mid from the 165V Polyglass comp set, BTW ;)

Edit: If you think the speaker doesn't look centred in the baffle, that's because it isn't. However that is how it had to be to line up precisely with the opening in the door panel. That's why I mentioned you should measure it up before making the speaker hole.

[Big Joe]

Man you guys make things alot harder then they need to be. cut the back of your current speaker holder off, its plastic and very easy to cut. Then just drill holes for the 6.5 on the old speaker holder and attach it to the door like you would if it was stock. Its alot easier then making my brackets and everything. At least thats what I found and my speakers have been in for a year and a half with no problems.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Big Joe
Man you guys make things alot harder then they need to be. cut the back of your current speaker holder off, its plastic and very easy to cut. Then just drill holes for the 6.5 on the old speaker holder and attach it to the door like you would if it was stock. Its alot easier then making my brackets and everything.

Hmm, I'm not sure about how your 4x6 holder thing was on your year but on the 96-98 that just isn't possible. Plus even if you did that (perhaps cutting out the back of that thing as well?), I can't see how you're going to get a good separation of the back wave from the front wave of the speaker--when installing a speaker you want to seal off the front from the back as well as possible otherwise you're going to have lacklustre sound compared to what the speaker could do.

[Big Joe]

My speakers sound great, ask anyone who has been for a ride in my car. Witch actually isnt to hard to find on this board I have drivin many people from here in my car, I dont think I explained things as best I could but whatever.

[Jibo]

Personally I say go with the home made adapter over cutting the plastic. I originally had cut up the plastic 4x6 holder and dynomatted taround the speaker and all, i re-did it using ryan's template and it sounds 10x better without any dynomat even!, next year I will get in there again change out for a better pair of speakers and dynomat around the speaker openings. But trust me go witht he mdf

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Big Joe
My speakers sound great, ask anyone who has been for a ride in my car. Witch actually isnt to hard to find on this board I have drivin many people from here in my car, I dont think I explained things as best I could but whatever.

Hey Joe I didn't mean to say that your car sounded bad... Seems like you got that impression somehow, but I wasn't saying anything about how your car sounds. I was just wondering how it was possible to fit a 6.5" driver with the factory 4x6 thingy. I even took my factory ones out of my closet for a look and still can't figure it out :???:

But it could very well be that the ones in your car are different since you have a 93. I have no idea what yours looks like and have never heard it, but I'll take your word for it that it sounds good.

I've seen a lot of people that have put speakers in cars that aren't the same size as factory and the driver is never sealed properly. I remember this one person on a GP forum that posted pics and stuff of installing a 6.5 where the GP takes 5.25. The way he did it the speaker was barely supported nevermind sealed. I remember thinking "what is this guy thinking?" lol.

I have no clue whether yours is sealed up well or not though, but if it isn't it will sound better if you do a better job of sealing it.
Sealing the front and back wave at the speaker at the very least, is a pretty standard install procedure--any certified installer would be sure to do that.

The next step--matting the door (which seals it up even better and prevents resonances from the door metal) makes a night and day difference and I'd definitely recommend that for anyone installing 6.5s as well.

[nice96gt]

Don't worry, Joe can take a joke! ;)

The template that I have makes mounting 6.5's very easy. That is if you are planning to keep the stock grills. The way that Joe did them is also an option, but personally (no offense to you Joe, you know that) I would go with the apapter plates. The sound will be a little more contained (the modified 4x6 bracket doesn't seal up completely compared to the 6.5 mounting plate). As for the mounting plates, they use factory holes for mounting the plate to the door and have holes for the speaker. I'm pretty sure that most 6.5's have the same location for where the mounting holes are.

Heck I'll post it up so that everyone can use it...you could even modify it to fit 5.25" speakers if you wanted. :)

ENJOY! (print out at 100% and use as a template)

[nice96gt]

Originally posted by PontiacGT
I wouldn't even know where to buy this PVC or Plexi...

I suppose this would work eh?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8233765657

Home Depot sells thin plexiglass...just a heads up.

[MantaGreen97]

^ Nice template Ryan :)

Between the two of us we should put together a "How-To" perhaps for 6.5s in a 96-98...

I have a couple of pics taken but pretty much only of the finished product. I see that you already have a how to remove the door panel How-To as well :)

[nice96gt]

Yeah we should...Many people are always trying to do it. The more how-to's the better :D

We need to get together. I haven't been to any GrandsOntario meets at KC for a while. Maybe I'll stop in one time and we can meet up.

[Tyler_S]

Between the two of us we should put together a "How-To" perhaps for 6.5s in a 96-98...

I think you should too... :D

I want to try this in the spring.

[Big Joe]

Just to clear things up I have a 94 not a 93.....The 93's were uglier imo

[Tyler_S]

I have a 94 not a 93.....The 93's were uglier imo

How can that be? They're both the same.

With the exception of the 3.1, the transaxle, the airbag, and a few internal cosmetics like knobs, there is no external difference between the two.

[mrjoecanadian]

Originally posted by Big Joe
Just to clear things up I have a 94 not a 93.....The 93's were uglier imo

You're GA looks the same as my 92...IMO (except the shifter and steering wheel)

[tommymcc]

a pic of my '97 back when i had it, just sandwich the doorpanel behind the speaker and a bracket, doing this will cause you to lose some lowend sound since the speaker will be free air rather then enclosed, but it does look good

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/652000-652999/652814_67_full.jpg

[nice96gt]

Originally posted by tommymcc
a pic of my '97 back when i had it, just sandwich the doorpanel behind the speaker and a bracket, doing this will cause you to lose some lowend sound since the speaker will be free air rather then enclosed, but it does look good

That's actually how I have my setup. I wanted to use the aftermarket grilles. And they still sound great!

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by tommymcc
a pic of my '97 back when i had it, just sandwich the doorpanel behind the speaker and a bracket, doing this will cause you to lose some lowend sound since the speaker will be free air rather then enclosed, but it does look good


A speaker running in a door is almost always "free-air". All free-air refers to is infinite baffle (often called IB). For a speaker to run IB, ideally you have the front of the speaker sealed off from the back, with an "infinite" amount of airspace (i.e. not sealed) behind the speaker.

So from the above you can see that, unless you made a fixed enclosure inside the door, all speaker installs in doors are "free-air". The driver design for most car speakers is designed such that the driver plays optimally in an IB install.

However we all know there are lots of holes/gaps in the door so the air isn't completely sealed off from the front (where the speaker fires into). However with sound deadening mat and good sealing around the speaker you can make it a lot better. Air "leaks" directly around the speaker are the worst with ones further away from it have less of an effect on sound quality. That's why I was saying before that the seal of the speaker's mounting flange is pretty critical.

[nice96gt]

Roland...you are tha shit :headbang:

lol

It's nice to have new input around here. Not that we don't have alot of great input already, but just a different view of things...and extra info that could be very useful. :)

[Big Joe]

Originally posted by mrjoecanadian
You're GA looks the same as my 92...IMO (except the shifter and steering wheel)


The exterior is the same. but the interior had some small differences that I just dont like. the steering wheel, hvac knobs. Dont no the name for them but the two sticks on the steering colum for your lights turn signal etc. and a few other small things here and there

[tommymcc]

most door speakers are free air, however my wifes camry has enclosed door speakers, most new vehicles do

my ga had a enclosure the 4x6's sat in, but it was still semi free air

rear speakers are always free air, i've seen some free air subs used before, but they require the trunk to be sealed pretty well, they also can't share the same air for the front and rear of the speaker

[nice96gt]

Update: That template should be printed at 50% NOT 100% using a program like photoshop or something similar

[SE2000]

Pep Boys sells a plastic speaker mount, a pair for less than $20

[SE2000]

Originally posted by nice96gt
Update: That template should be printed at 50% NOT 100% using a program like photoshop or something similar

Could you give us the physical dimensions to the template, ie height and width so that we are sure its the right size.
Thanks

[nice96gt]

Off the top of my head I'm not sure...I will check and get back to ya. This is also only for 92-98 application. I don't know what the 99+ look like.

[Porteritojr]

You know, I tried to use the template but my Type-Xs did not have enough clearance with the window form the back. Ended up just using some plate that came with the speakers. Adapted them to the panel not the door itself and still sound very crisp and defined.

[nice96gt]

You could have just made the adapter thicker which probably would have gave you the depth you needed...Or just mounted them to the door panels

[SE2000]

Originally posted by nice96gt
Off the top of my head I'm not sure...I will check and get back to ya. This is also only for 92-98 application. I don't know what the 99+ look like.

Did you ever get the measurements? I can modify if needed for my app.