Engine Misfires

[qtbar]

hello!

i have looked around the site and don't see my prob already posted so i'm assuming it may be a rare problem but here goes anyway.....

99GA SE 2.4L quad. the car violently shakes, stalls and does't have acceleration while driving or in idle. problem comes out of the blue no matter the speed - sometimes drives ok. when it stalls or won't accelerate it almost feels like a standard "bunny hopping" - it is automatic. problems are becoming worse and happening every time i drive it now.

i've had the history codes pulled - autozone gave me a 300 random misfire code so i took it to a buddy's shop which pulled up 17,000 misfires on all four cylinders. cyl 1 had 584 - cyl2 had almost 2000 and the rest was about equal between 3 & 4

3 months ago i replaced my engine w/ one @ 40K miles and last month had my tranny rebuilt (lost all forward gears) - i took the coil pack (i think its called - top of engine held in by 4 bolts - with engine name on it) off and it didn't look bad - light misfire marks but i put the one from my old engine on anyway to see if that would help (what's the odd of both being bad) car was fine for approx 75 miles then probs started again. replaced plugs although they looked fine - didn't help

any suggestions???? i am going crazy with this car over the last few months! one thing after another! could they be related somehow? could it be fuel injection or the computer?

thanks is advance to anyone that may have a suggestion right or wrong. i appreciate any ideas that will help me figure it out. the mechanic can't figure it out - just says it is electrical but i'm a single mom and i can't afford to keep sinking $ into it on what if's by a man i'm paying by the hour.. :)

thanks again

~Teresa

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by qtbar
...99GA SE 2.4L quad [with rebuilt auto]
the car violently shakes, stalls and doesn't have acceleration while driving or in idle.
...sometimes drives ok.

...Autozone gave me a P0300 random misfire code.
so i took it to a buddy's shop which pulled up 17,000 misfires on all four cylinders. cyl 1 had 584, cyl 2 had almost 2000 and the rest [17,000 - 2,584 = 14,416 ???] was about equal between 3 & 4 [therefore 7,208 EACH???]

...replaced my engine w/ one @ 40K miles ....
i put the one from my old engine on anyway to see if that would help, ....car was fine for approx 75 miles then probs started again...

any suggestions????
....could they be related somehow?
could it be fuel injection or the computer?

For brevity, let's call your problem ("violently shakes, stalls and doesn't have acceleration") 'bucking'.

Lots of suggestions, but a little more info and DIY analysis is necessary.
Certainly things could be related, but I'm not sure what you mean:
* The current 'bucking' problem and the previous tranny problem?
Mebbe, but real hard to tell at this point; so I would like to ignore them as a 'related pair' for the time being.
* Is there anything ELSE wrong at this time, or just the 'bucking'?

* Does this 'bucking' problem happen ONLY when the engine is warm and you're on the road?
* Or has it happened when the engine has just been started and hasn't reached operating temperature (140*F)?
(This is a key question, since the PCM changes from default open-loop operation to closed-loop operation when it warms up; this info can help us isolate your problem.)


* The car is a '99, so about 7-yrs old, therefore about 105,000 miles on the chassis?

* * *
Analysis:

P0300 = Multiple/Random misfire detected.
The OBD-II itself doesn't readily tell us whether the misfire is random or multiple or both.
Your mechanic's scan indicates it's multiple misfire (several cylinders).
And you've stated that it's random ('out of the blue', 'sometimes drives OK').

"Misfire" means the cylinder isn't firing (duh).
BUT, that can be from:
1. Lack of adequate spark (bad coils, boots, plugs; ignition module (what the coils set on), or PCM (Powertrain Control Module, the engine/tranny 'puter).
OR
2. Lack of proper fuel injection; either rich or lean (bad injectors, dirty injectors, injectors sticking open, poor (low) fuel pressure, poor (low) fuel volume).

We'll get you thru this pretty cheaply and quickly, but I've got to go to a meeting now.
* * *

In the meantime:

1. Fuel Filter: How long since this was changed?
If more than about 30,000 miles, it may well be partially-clogged.
Change it; it's a $15 part from AutoZone/Checker/NAPA, and it's a 15 minute job for a mechanic with the proper High-Pressure Fuel Line Quick-Connect Tool (which is a pack of 6 plastic washer-type thingies that cost ~12 at Checker/AZ/etc.).
The FF is located under the car (under the rear seat) and behind the fuel tank.
It's an easy DIY project for somebody with basic mechanical skill and a few handtools + the 'Special Tool'.

2. Service your battery cables!

Battery cable ends must be clean and tight and shiny bright.
Even the best new alternator and the best new battery can't provide adequate power (volts and amps) if the connections are so dirty/loose/corroded that power doesn't flow thru them.
Bad connections will also kill both the alternator and the battery very quickly.

So, inspect/clean/repair/replace/tighten both ends of both cables to provide maximum flow of electrical power.
Disconnect cables: NEG (Black) first, then POS (Red).
Cut the molded rubber boots from the battery connections, since water seeps thru them and corrodes the copper wire into useless powder.
Dissolve corrosion with a paste solution of baking soda and water, applied with an old toothbrush.
Scrape/sand/wire-brush all the metal (cable ends and batt terminals) to shiny metal.
Reconnect cables: POS (Red) first, then NEG (Black); this is OPPOSITE of the way you disconnected them.
Replace the cut-off boots with new aftermarket slip-on rubber boots to protect against short-circuiting while allowing for future inspection and service.

Weird things happen to GA's when the cables aren't in pristine shape.
It's necessary and cheap (or even free!), so there's no downside to servicing them immediately.

3. Have you recently run a bottle of off-the-shelf Fuel Injector Cleaner thru the tank?
If not, a bottle of name-brand stuff in a half tank of gas is a worthwhile investment at this time.

The above items (Fuel Filter and Battery Cable Service) are necessary GA maintenance items; along with the FI Cleaner, they are simple, fairly cheap, and *may* solve the current 'bucking' problem.

Good luck, and standing by.
-Rick

Please answer the above questions to help us narrow the focus of our suggestions.

[qtbar]

rixGAphx,

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! for responding!

I am so glad i was so hands on (except for w/ the tranny) with changing the engine, etc - now some of these questions i can answer...... :)

first off - it seems to be just the bucking and lack of accelerating power. my abs/ets lights are on but i'm not so concerned about those right now. (bad sensor on front driver side) not sure it's big deal but i see i made a typo - the engine misfired a total of about 14,000 times.... the #'s per cyl were correct though. the other 2 cyls misfired over 5,000 each. this was checked in less than a week after "bucking" started - or at least before it was noticable. I only drive 3 miles to work and a not far to the store, etc so it got bad pretty quick. it started a couple of days after the tran was fixed but the transmission guys kept it for a day and came to the conclussion that it was not the tranny again.

i have not been able to pick a time/temp that it happens more. it happens cold or not and sometimes drives ok cold or not.... very unpredictable. sometimes it starts shaking and stalling upon start and sometimes its a mile or so down the road - sometimes not at all (but not really now - pretty much everytime i drive it it happens every 1/2 - 1 mile or so) If it helps, the whole car shakes and sometimes the exhaust rattles and is pretty loud (like a muffler prob) but when the car is driving ok the exhaust is perfectly quiet. there is a little over 107,000 miles on the car.

i did try injector cleaner (per autozone guys suggestion) but i went with the weakest one (also per his suggestion) i put it in after i filled up tank and then was told i should've put it in first to mix it better. i haven't seen any change whatsoever. i ran the tank out that i put it in and then only filled half way back up in case i need to do it again. should i go to a stronger cleaner? i haven't yet b/c he said i could hurt my car if the cleaner is too strong for the problem.

i'm not sure about the fuel filter - i remember last year having some probs and getting a tune-up and new Oxygen sensor etc - probably haven't changed filter since. also - i do not use the cheap gas. i use the middle grade. i will see if l can get someone to help me change that asap and let you know what happens. i will also get those cables serviced. i had plugs changed a couple of days ago as well.

my engine needed changed b/c the "guide" broke and the timing chain stretched causing a valve to shoot through a piston. i hired my buddy to help guide me through changing the engine, using his tools and doing some of the work to save $. (which all my family got a good laugh at...lol) had it inspected when finished and was told it was a perfect job.

i was told that b/c all cylinders were misfiring that it was prob electrical or something - not anything the engine warranty would cover - and that i could not hurt anything further by driving the 3 miles to / from work..... does this sound ok to you? the last thing i want to do is damage anything further! after the repairs last year, including an altenator, rotors/brakes, tires, oxygen sensor etc, then engine and transmission breaking i am about to go nuts over this...lol but i have too much sunk into it and i love my car when it runs good.... i want to fix it! :) i don't know why it keeps breaking - i don't run it hard and i change my oil etc.

You help is GREATLY appreciated! thanks again for responding!

~Teresa

[4kQuad]

My guess,

Pull the thing off the top of the motor (4 bolts) where the coils live. Remove the 4 bolts, pull straight up on the thing. it will come off. Turn it over, you will see a plastic cover, under it is were the coils really live. Check this cover real good for cracks or what looks like dust trails on the plastic.

If you see either replace the cover, ?about 30 bucks? it contains the spark to the plugs, if it has cracks the spark leaks out. So it does not get to the spark plugs...and that's a miss.

Air fliter is clean right....dam things cause all kinds of problems once there too dirty.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by qtbar
.. the #'s per cyl were correct though. the other 2 cyls misfired over 5,000 each. this was checked in less than a week after "bucking" started.
OK.
So out of the line of injectors, from L to R as you look at the engine:
1 had fewest misses,
2 was mediocre, and 3 and 4 were the worst.
So, the problem is worse on the right, and gets progressively less worse.

....It happens cold or not and sometimes drives ok cold or not.... very unpredictable.
OK.
So, we know it's NOT a function of one of the sensors (or the PCM program) that only come 'on-line' when the engine is warm and switches to 'closed-loop' operation.

..There is a little over 107,000 miles on the car.
OK. Definitely time for a Fuel Filter, if you don't have records establishing that it's relatively new.

I did try injector cleaner...
... b/c he said i could hurt my car if the cleaner is too strong for the problem.
Nonsense.
The 'strong stuff' is MADE for your old engine, to dissolve the 'varnish' that builds-up on in the injector passages over the years.
BUT, since you've already done a bottle with no apparent improvement (indeed, a continuing downhill spiral), I wouldn't waste another $ there.

Relative to which gas:
Unless the replacement engine had been 'hot-rodded' with a valve job or special pistons, there is no benefit from buying gasoline higher than 87 octane (lowest grade of unleaded). None. Period.

89 and 91/92 octane are for higher-COMPRESSION engines than our 4-cyls and 6-cyls.
Unless the compression ratio was changed (by milling the head or using special pistons), your engine will not 'ping' on 87, so there's no reason to pay for the anti-pinging properties of 89.

BUT, always buy name-brand gas.
ONLY get gas from a conveneince store/mom-n-pop if you must, and then only as much as you need.
Name-brand gas, such as Chevron, Mobil, Texaco, etc. costs a little more because it has the special additives ('detergents' like Chevron "Techroline") that continually keep the entire fuel system in peak condition.
The name-brands add just as much of the additives to their 87 as to their 92. And the 89 is just a mix of the two.

...I will see if l can get someone to help me change [the fuel filter] asap and let you know what happens.
I will also get those cables serviced. I had plugs changed a couple of days ago as well.
1. OK, standing by on FF and Batt Cables.

2. So the plugs were changed after the 'bucking', and made no difference.

* WHAT did the old plugs look like???
If you still have them, please describe the condition of the tips (the center electrode, the side electrode, the ceramic and the metal threads).
If you can identify which plug came from which cylinder, that would also help.

* Please confirm which brand/model of spark plug came out, and what new ones went in.

...I was told that b/c all cylinders were misfiring that it was prob electrical or something - not anything the engine warranty would cover - and that i could not hurt anything further by driving the 3 miles to / from work..... does this sound ok to you?
Reverse order:
1. It CAN hurt to continue driving, even 3 miles, unless we solve this soon.
In particular, if the mixture is 'rich', then you are actively destroying the O2 sensor and catalytic converter as excess gas gets dumped into the exhaust.

Speaking of which, have you noticed a dramatic change in fuel consumption recently, either good or bad?

2. Prolly not warranty-actionable, I agree.

3. In my case a year ago, 4 of my 6 injectors were failing, so I know you can have 'multiple misfires' that are fuel-related.
It's very short-sighted to focus only on the ignition.
* Haven't you already swapped ignition covers (as 4kQuad said)?
BOTH could have been faulty, but I think it's unlikely they would be 'identically bad'.
Maybe re-swap??


Personally, I'm leaning toward a Fuel Pump problem and insufficient pressure for proper injection.
Thus a lean mixture and misfire.
But, this is a ~$240 part and 4 hours R&R, so I really want to examine all cheaper avenues first.

Verifying adequate fuel pressure would be the next step
The 4-cyls have a fuel rail just like the 6's, but the 6's have a test port into which a pressure gage can be plugged.
The 4's don't have this, so a mechanic has to rig something to test the pressure.
He could easily test the pressure at the fuel line when the FF is replaced.

Have you tested or replaced the Fuel Pressure Regulator??
As they fail, they can reduce the pressure.

Finally, the misfire is one thing, the 'bucking' is another.
Take a look at your motor mounts, especially the 'dogbone' torque strut.
I'll bet it's loose or destroyed, thereby causing the engine to jump all over as it misfires.
Resulting in banging exhaust, hopping, etc.

-Rick

[qtbar]

i'm not sure by looking at the engine but the misfire/cylinder #'s i gave you came off the computer. i'm also not sure about the model of the plugs - ac delco came out and ac delco went in. the plugs looked completely fine - just a little old but ok enough to know that i had probably just wasted my money by buying new ones before we even put them in. they cost $24.83 so i'm not sure if they are a good bad or mediocre model. I had somebody stop and get them for me.....

as far as the fuel filter.... is that something i could easily do by myself? (with not a lot of experience ...and the "special tool" of course) i think i am going to try to do as much as i can on my own so i can learn a little more and save some $ in case it ends up being one of the more expensive probs. - then i'll pay one of my buddies or a mechanic to fix.

as far as the gas pressure goes... is this something that i should take it to the dealer / mechanic and have checked or is it too expensive that way? if i took it to dealer for accurate diagnosis would they for sure figure out what was wrong? if they can't diagnose do they still charge? i'm wondering if it would be worth it to do that if they can get an accurate diagnosis.... what do you think? i mean after we try your suggestions, if it's still not running properly.

for the record.... car ran fine on way home from work yesterday and coming in this morning! the service engine light stays on now too - no matter how it is driving when before it would shake and stall all over the place and the light would not be on....

thanks again for responding so quickly. you are giving me some good ideas :)

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by qtbar
.....as far as the gas pressure goes... is this something that i should take it to the dealer / mechanic and have checked or is it too expensive that way? if i took it to dealer for accurate diagnosis would they for sure figure out what was wrong? if they can't diagnose do they still charge? i'm wondering if it would be worth it to do that if they can get an accurate diagnosis.... what do you think? i mean after we try your suggestions, if it's still not running properly.
Don't even think about going to somebody for more tests/diagnosis for a couple days.

They might or not find the problem right away; but in any case they will want $80 in the door to connect their OBD-II scanner, then $80 hour for a senior mechanic to do what we're suggesting you do. Except, he has access to more sophisticated equipment and can check electronic parts actual performance/failure.

And they won't 'guarantee' finding the problem. At some point, they (as well as we) might have to try removing *possible* fualty parts and replacing with new (in other words, throwing $$ at it :banghead: )
* * *

Do go to AutoZone/Checker and borrower their OBD-II scanner, plug it into the port (lower edge of dash, above driver's shin);
idiot proof, truly.
Report back with the P0xxx 'generic' OBD-II codes (for reference, see http://www.obdii.com/codes.html ) and any GM-specific P1xxx codes).
The scanner should be free upon deposit.

'Tis really strange that the SES light hasn't been 'on' during all of this.
Anything electric almost ALWAYS throws a code.
Vacuum and fuel-pressure problems often won't.
* * *

For the FF, you MUST have the damned 'special tool'.
Trust us; collectively we've already ruined several fuel lines trying to use screwdrivers, needle-nose pliers, whatever to release the little clippy-do's.
And those ruined fuel lines cost a lot more than $12 to replace.

Other than that, the FF R&R procedure is pretty simple and can be found in Haynes and in numerous 'Problems and Solutions' threads by using the 'search'.
* * *

I'll get back on the other points in a few hours.
Boss is asking for me to do something PRODUCTIVE at the moment :roll2: :sheesh:

-Rick

[qtbar]

how dare your boss ask you to do something productive! mine is like that too - do you think their teaming up on us? lol

weird news: i told you car drove fine on way home other night... well it drove fine to kids school yesterday morning (2 miles) then to work (3 miles) - then to second job (1.5 miles from first job) then home (4 miles) then again to kids school this morning! and the SES light is OFF again! when i say "fine" i mean no "bucking" or stalling.... it was still hestitating pretty well and at some points i felt a little (really little) vibration in the car, (not like alignment etc vibrations though) which is usually how i can first tell it is going to start acting up. i can usually feel a slight vibration in the steering wheel or brake pedal first - then all he$$ brakes loose. car got up to speed but just a little slower than normal when healthy (like it was cold) but temps were fine - i warmed up for 15 mins first.

i think you're right on telling me not to take it anywhere yet. especially since the daggone car would probably purr like a kitten when it was there. that's what happened when i took it back to the tranny place. i had to take it three times before they could see something was wrong. i think they thought i was just crazy...lol but the car wasn't as bad then as it has been lately.

i will try to see what i can do about the fuel filter tomorrow (sat) - i'm going to try this by myself. i may be girlie but i'm not afraid to get my hands dirty. i'm trying to learn as much as i can as i go and there's no better way than doing it myself i guess :)

the link you gave me: is it a step by step instruction or will there be points that aren't mentioned that someone working on their car should just know? is there anything in particular that i should be aware or careful of? i havent looked yet .... will i need to jack the car up or just slide under? it's supposed to snow tonight and tomorrow but i'll get out there and do it anyway! i am determined to get this car fixed! but keep in mind when telling me what "i" can do that i don't have a whole lot of patience when i have troubles taking things apart etc - i swear i thought i was going to have to go to the looney bin when i was helping change the timing chain and engine....lol

thanks again Rick for your help and patience. you are truly helping me! I am so appreciative of all of your time and input ~Teresa

[4kQuad]

Coils, when cold will work, but give them 10 to 15 minutes on the road and they start missing. Cold coils will even test good till you get them hot.

So how long does it take before the car starts missing???

Sounds like it works for short trips.

[qtbar]

hi 4kquad!

the car doesn't have a timeline on that really. sometimes it is upon start and sometimes it takes awhile. the other night (mon) it took me 20 mins to get the car to stay started after work (that's the only time it has been THAT bad) - it had been sitting there all day in the cold. it was stalling immediately upon starting. i do know that when it does that if i mash the gas pedal it will help start and also when it is bucking and acting like it is going to stall it usually won't actually stall if i "give it more gas". sometimes i through it in neutral and rev it while driving to stop the shaking (almost like it corrects it for a little bit) - most of the time this prevents it from stalling and sometimes gets it to run smoother but not always. sometimes i just have to pull over and sit for a min then try again. i'm not sure if it's just a coincidence or if it actually works though. it was seeming to act up more when i turned up the heat to high or adjusted it but the mechanic convinced me it was just coincidental and the 2 couldn't be related.

sometimes it does take a min to start acting up though. it really is unpredictable. i usually do warm it up real well before driving so i'm not sure. should i do a couple of tests and drive 10 miles or so cold and warm. will that help us figure out what is wrong? i'm willing to try just about anything at this point.

thanks!

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by qtbar
....it was seeming to act up more when I turned up the heat to high or adjusted it....

BINGO!!!

We hava winna!!!!!!

1. Fire your mechanic. He sucks bigtime.

2. Do a 'search' in other threads of 'Problems and Solutions' for "vacuum leask".

3. Do NOT spend your money on an FF or the 'special tool', yet.
We have other things to try first.

-Rick

PS: The HVAC controls are operated by a vacuum tube from the intake manifold. So if fussing with them affects the problem, there's a new factor to consider
A vac leak will cause your symptoms, often won't cause an 'SES' light, and often will be random or sporadic.
Vac tube problems are often associated with head or engine replacement.
Since there's a vac line to auto trannies, your tranny guys may, indeed, be the culprits here.

4kQuad: Can you enlighten her a little more on 4-cyl vacuum?

[rixGAphx]

Hokay, I have a little more time now.

Vac Leaks:
You have several vac systems on the car:
1. The emissions stuff:
There is a complete diagram of this pasted to the spring tower on the passenger side of the engine bay.
This is prolly NOT your problem area, since every failure here virtually MUST report an SES code (the entire OBD-II system is intended for reduction of polution).
2. The Brake Booster (power brakes):
This is a black rubber hose, about 3/4" diameter, from the intake manifold to the brake booster (metal cake-pan kinda thing on the firewall behind the Master Cylinder).
There will be one or more plastic checkvalves in the hose, maybe right at the booster ('L' shaped).
This is also prolly NOT your problem area, since any failure here is very noticable as an increase in the amount of pedal force for stopping.
3. HVAC control:
Inside the ductwork under the dash, there are little flapper-doors (called dampers) that open and close to divert the air. They are generally held in their primary position (open or closed, depending on function) by a spring, and they are operated by a vac hose from the Htr/AC control panel.
When you turn the Htr/AC, temperature, and fanspeed dials, they tell channel the vac to operate the dampers and/or the Hteater Control Valve (on the heater hose, under the hood).

The vacuum that 'goes' to the Htr/AC control panel is a small line that comes from the intake manifold (IM).
But it doesn't go direct.
It goes from the IM down to the vac reservoir, under the battery. It's round black plastic, about the size and shape of a grapefruit.
There is a nipple projecting from the vac res, and a tube. About 4-6" from the nipple is a 'Tee' fitting. Not easy to see, 'cuz it's blocked by a radiator hose.
This 'Tee" has a tube going toward the firewall, and another up to the engine (at least on the V6; don't know on the 4-cyl).
It's easy for this 'Tee' to come loose from one or more of the tubes, or for it to develop a leak.
4. I'm not sure of the routing of vac to the tranny (or even if there is any on your car).
5. The V6 has vac to the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve (EGR), which can REALLY play havoc with the way an engine runs; but it's my understanding that most of the 4-cyls do NOT have EGR.
6. IIRC, there's some 1" diameter molded black rubber hose under the air intake, kinda from the throttle body, downward to the engine.
I've only seen a picture of it, and don't know what it does.

So, visually inspect all these hoses and systems. None should have the slightest looseness at the fittings, nor cracks or nicks, nor be 'open' to the atmosphere.

If your visual inspection isn't frutiful, you need a spraycan of 'Winter Starting Fluid', about $3 at Kmart/Walmart.
With the engine running and the hood up, VERY CAREFULLY spray small spurts of the fluid toward the vac hose fittings.
If the there is a vac leak, the fluid will sucked thru it into the IM, and the engine will immediately 'spike' into smoother and faster running.
Voila!! the leak source is getting closer.

Be aware, the leak source might actually be one of the dampers in the ductwork, or the Htr Valve, or the Htr/AC control panel itself.
Only the heater valve under the hood can be tested by the 'Winter Starting Fluid' spray test, and I suggest you DON'T try that (since the result is flammable spray particles thru the tube, into the cabin under the dash, then out to the engine.

To test the Htr/AC, go back to the 'Tee'.
Pull-off the tube that goes backward, if you can.
Stick a golf tee or similar sharp round durable device into the 'Tee', and see if that stops the vac leak and causes improved engine performance.

In particular, look for vac leaks where somebody has recently been working on the car:
* New stereo in the dash? Look there at the Htr/AC controls.
* Tranny replacement? Look at the 'Tee', since they could easily dislodge it and not even see that something's wrong.

Sorry I didn't tumble to the vac leak sooner. :(
That's prolly why I'm not a mechanic by trade.

Hope this helps.
-Rick

[4kQuad]

Vac leak makes a lot of since, about the only thing that does. Is the use of the heat ( moving from hot/cold---deforst/dash) when you most often notices the problem. If so the two have to be related.

It sounds like something is messing with the air fuel mix, almost causing a flooding affect, raise up the rpms and it clears the flood.
At least that is how it works with Crab'ed cars, I know EFI is not the same, but the effect you are having is the same.

Has the TPS been checked? I didn't reread.
have you looked at the butterfly in the throttle body to insure it is clean around it and moving freely?

[qtbar]

hi guys! sorry i didn't respond sooner.... got called into 2nd job yesterday and daughter had competition all day today so needless to say i didn't get to the fuel filter anyway.

driving report.... remember i said that the car has been fine? well i drove it awhile to see how many miles i could go and besides regular errands i drove it around the outerbelt friday night and saturday morning (about 65 miles each time) - still acting fine - just with a little hesitation on takeoff until i get out of 1st gear.

i will look into your suggestions asap! thanks!!!!!! by the way - i remember when i was looking for the engine the asked my about that e?R thing (whatever it is called) and was told that some that year had it and some didn't but it didn't matter wheich i bought.

i don't know if it's b/c i'm a girl or what but these guys at the shops just seem to think i'm crazy. i told them my car just didn't feel right - nest thing you know i'm having to buy an engine.... i took the car to the tranny place after replacing the engine b/c it didn't seem right - they said it was fine and that the car was just getting old - and that it had been a month since i'd driven the car so i was probably expecting more after the engine was replaced ...then BAM no forward gears.

my buddy... told him my rpms were jumping... he said i was just paranoid and paying more attn to them - they were normal - it shouldn't jump to a little above 3 on take off unless your gunning it right?

another shop.... i told them it seemed to "buck, etc" more when i adjusted my heat.... they told me it was coincidental.... when will they understand that the person that drives the car knows when something isn't right? lol

[qtbar]

this problem that you are thinking it is.... is this something the transmission guys should've found after i reported the problem and took it back to them? the first time i took it it was barely acting up and they couldn't even get it to act up... the second time they kept it for the day and got it to buck and stall but said it was in the engine they thought and the tranny was fine. is that something they would of normally checked or is it kinda rare and they just didn't think of it? the tranny guys are pretty good - have a couple of shops and have been in business for years with a great rep. they are big on trying to keep a good rep so i will call them first thing in the morning w/ your suggestions.

Also... do you know of a way i can check my tran fluid without taking it to the shop? i can't believe the gm engineers made this car with no dipstick!!!! that drives me crazy and with me just having had trans work i want to keep an eye on those fluids.... don't want that hefty bill again! (even though that's not what caused it to go out in the first place)

i'll keep you posted on what they say - and hopefully this helps someone else who may find themselves with this problem.

you guys are great! i'm glad i came here.... i think i might just pop in even after my car is fixed! :)

[qtbar]

NO VAC ON TRANNY!?!?! UGH!!!!!!!!!!

tranny guys say my transmission is all electronic so there is no vacuum. says 3 speed's have it but mine is a 4 and doesn't. they say i need a tech 2 or tech 3 to check the history and see what is actually causing the misfires. does anyone have a chainsaw i can borrow - i'll fix it...... just kidding lol

p.s. - car drove fine to work this morning (still a little hesitant on take offs until out of 1st) I'm sooooooo confused!

[rixGAphx]

The preferred method of eliminating GA problems forever seems to be leaving the keys in the ignition and abandoning it in a bad part of town.
Much less messy and noisy than the chainsaw or 12-gage techniques, and you don't have the rusting hulk setting in the driveway.

:D :D
* * *

Yeah, I thought there might not be a vac connection to the tranny.

He's wrong about you needing the Tech 2 or 3 to read the engine/tranny codes. These supersophisticated scanners DO read more than a simple hand-held scanner, but they are primarily for Body Module and ABS Module codes, not plain-old engine/tranny codes.
Just go to AutoZone/Checker/etc. and read the PCM codes with their OBD-II scnanner.

Do the DIY vacuum checking that I recommended.
Over the weekend, I pondered your problem a bit. (I don't have much of life :D :D )
Remember that the problem is worst at the right of the engine (plug 4) and progressively less toward the left (as viewed looking at the engine)?
Well, I think that suggests the vac leak would be closest to the driver side of the intake system (right, as you look at the engine).

So maybe, start your investigation there.

A rubber vac hose can easily be cracked only 1/2 way around; Murphy's Law says this will occur on the underside where it can't readily be seen. :roll2:
Sometimes it seals fine, other times the crack opens a little and allows the vac leak. Thus the 'randomness' of the condition.
* * *

Tranny Fluid checking:
You CAN self check the level on your GA, but it's a messy process.
Gotta lift the car to crawl under it and remove a plug in the side of the tranny.
Trick is, the car must be level when lifted; easy for a shop with a lift to do. A DIYer must lift the entire car and support on 4 jackstands.

Frankly, there's no longer a need for owners of front-wheel drive vehicles to check the tranny fluid level.
It NEVER burns or evaporates like engine oil does.
All it can do is leak. If there is no leaky spot on your parking spot, then the tranny fluid level is fine.
It just IS.
If you're concerned, then stop by the tranny shop for a monthly fluid-level check until you feel comfortable.
[Old-style rear-wheel drive vehicles can leak at the front of the tranny, the rear of the tranny, and the cooler lines to the radiator.
FWD can only leak at the 'front' of the tranny (where it bolts to the engine) and at the radiator cooler lines. There is no 'rear' of the tranny, since that is the differential. The cooler lines are hard metal, without the short rubber section that rwd's had, so leaks are practically impossible; if they do leak, ALL the fluid is pumped out so quickly that you notice it immediately and suffer no tranny damage.
If the 'front seal' leaks, it leaves a puddle under the engine side (driver, left side, for most GM's) where it's easy to notice.]

Hope this helps.
-Rick