What can I do?

[willdue]

Yea, im lookin for any performence upgrades I can get?

So far I have:

K&N Intake
Chip (+20hp)
Greddy Muffler
Supercharger(in the mail)

[nice96gt]

K&N Intake
Chip (+20hp)
Greddy Muffler
Supercharger(in the mail)

2/4 are good....intake filter and muffler. Take the "20hp" chip of...it doesn't do anything for hp, all it does is trick your computer. S/C is the best option...which one are you getting?

[willdue]

One on ebay, Ive read all reviews on the ones avalible, and its the best with customers reviews.

Yea Im lookin for some easy, cheap upgrades. Ive heard about the chip, I dont have it yet, so maybe I wont put it in.

[kickarsgrdam01]

it is junk

[willdue]

Ill take opinions...ill see for myself...

[bu01]

link to the s/c

[Mike94SE]

Oh dear God it's elecric isn't it?

Do me a favor; look below me. Now there's a REAL kit :D

[Mike94SE]

Originally posted by willdue
Ill take opinions...ill see for myself...

Was it universal?

[willdue]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8038423966&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT

[Mike94SE]

I was right......

Cancel your bid

[urweak]

Originally posted by willdue
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8038423966&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT

Please for the love of god tell me you didnt pay money for that yet.

As for the other things. DO NOT buy the ebay "chip", it is another scam like this supercharger.

The muffler will not add horsepower alone, you will need a catback or a full exhuast system replacement to gain any HP.

A K&N filter will work, but i would buy an intake for your car instead of just the filter. PM me if your interested about the intake.

[matts]

:roflmao: an electric supercharger huh?? that's cute


please dont buy crap like this

[Big Joe]

What is it latly. Everyone seems to be getting this junk. If yuou want a supercharger your you have to spend the money anything that u can get for cheap isnt going to work.

[matts]

general rule of thumb......horsepower isn't cheap. if it's very cheap at all it isn't going to do anything

[Dargasonus]

yeah... any 'money saving' mods are usually 'time wasting' mods as wel\

[Bjornboy81]

Reliable....Cheap....High Gains....Choose two.

[Mike94SE]

Looks like a new "Shift" has come :(

[Dargasonus]

Okay Willdue, look at the feedback for the seller of those electric wastes of money. People saying 'noticable diffrence' odds are most of that is in their head, a placebo effect. Everyone else either said it takes AWAY hp, or didn't post it's effects, meaning they havn't installed it yet. And by several of the feedbacks, it appears major modifications are needed to even make the thing fit.

DON'T buy it please.

[willdue]

Ill take all the crit on the supercharger, but i still wanna try em, its part of learnin and experiminting. As far as the catback exhuast, i want that, but cant find one on ebay for a 2.3L, only 2.4L, so help me find one and ill buy. And yes, I already have the full cold air intake, not just the K&N Filter. So list some more mods for me!

[willdue]

I bought it like 2 days ago, or I wouldt have. I can always re-sell it.

[1992grandam]

Its junk...all that ebay stuff is junk and wont work worth a damn. As far as a catback goes you have to go custom, nobody makes a catback for pre 99 Grand Ams

[willdue]

So what kinda place would I go? And price?

[Mike94SE]

I dunno.......











|
|
V

[1992grandam]

You can go to any exhaust shop and they can fab a catback up for ya. Id recomend 2.25" piping with a magnaflow/dynomax muffler.

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by 1992grandam
You can go to any exhaust shop and they can fab a catback up for ya. Id recomend 2.25" piping with a magnaflow/dynomax muffler. :agree: ...but go with pressure bent pipe or mandral bent...NOT crush bent. It's way cheaper, but you'll lose any potential gains, because it doesn't flow well. :)

[willdue]

Thanks. I'm gunna look into that tommorow and order the underdrive kit tonite. What shall I get next?

[willdue]

Is there anyway I can improove accelaration, cause automatics def lag that.

[Bjornboy81]

The underdrive pulley will help with acceleration. Just to let you know though, with a better flowing exhaust, you'll lose low end power, but gain high end power, so off the line you may feel the car accelerate a little slower...don't be suprised.

It'll be intresting to see if that electric fan acutally helps at all. Theoreticaly it should, but it's doubtfull. You should dyno it before and after and see if there was any real gains other than the "placebo" gains.

[urweak]

you have to understand something, that electric supercharger is 90 bucks. A REAL supercharger is in the $2,000-$5,000 range for these motors (unless you go with a "junkyard" build, but your still looking at around a grand or more)

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by urweak
you have to understand something, that electric supercharger is 90 bucks. A REAL supercharger is in the $2,000-$5,000 range for these motors (unless you go with a "junkyard" build, but your still looking at around a grand or more) I'm not sure who you're referring to.
I know that, and i know this electric motor that blows air at a throttle body is no where near a real supercharger, but it'd still be intresting to see if it does something, but cause the theory behind it has merit. :)

[Mike94SE]

Originally posted by Bjornboy81
I'm not sure who you're referring to.


Getting a JY supercharger off a Ford Supercoupe or a Grand Prix and
fabbing up a manifold

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by Mike94SE
Getting a JY supercharger off a Ford Supercoupe or a Grand Prix and
fabbing up a manifold ....I'm lost. I said "I'm not sure who you're referring to", in reference to urweaks "You have to understand something". ;)

[Mike94SE]

I dunno either. All I know is:






ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGERS SUCK!!

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by Mike94SE
I dunno either. All I know is:






ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGERS SUCK!!

:lol:...random.

Just out of curiousity, why do you say they suck? Because everyone says they do, or do you have experiance with them? Have you done research as to how different companies go about designing them and the differences in designs?

I'm not being a smartass...I haven't done any research myself, but I see no reason to tell someone that unless you know for a fact...other than hear-say. :)

[Mike94SE]

Any electric motor that can spin such a turbine (these are from boats; they suck out the exhaust, pretty cheap) would kill the battery faster than an alternator can resupply. Thus requiring a larger alternator. Thus killing more power by needing more to fully turn the pulley attached (you know how an alternator works right?).

Secondly, if one were to make a "seperate" setup for the "S/C" (I can't say this with a stright face), it would add extra weight to the car, and would need to tap into the current pulley set on a car.

Long story short; turbos rock. And I got one for a little bit over $100

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8038091065&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

[GrandAmSSE]

I bought one of them eletric fans and then found out it sucked. I decide to run it over with the car since I couldn't get my money back.

[urweak]

Originally posted by Bjornboy81
:lol:...random.

Just out of curiousity, why do you say they suck? Because everyone says they do, or do you have experiance with them? Have you done research as to how different companies go about designing them and the differences in designs?

I'm not being a smartass...I haven't done any research myself, but I see no reason to tell someone that unless you know for a fact...other than hear-say. :)

My "you" was to the thread starter.

the reason they suck is b/c they plan just dont work. You might get 1hp out of them. But you would have to run them all the time for this gain, if you didnt you would be loosing hp b/c of the "superhcarger" being in the way of in incoming air and slowing it down.

If you want a supercharger, a REAL one, then you need to spend the big bucks. Not 80 bucks.

[96GreenGaGT]

there is one electronic s/c that's been dyno proven (supposedly) to produce 1psi. that one runs for about 400 bucks. not 90... so yours probably doesn't do anything more than blow air.

it's refered to as a hairdryer for your car. now i think there is a real electronic supercharger that runs for like 1,200 bucks but you need like 4 rep top batteries to run it or something like that. i forget where i saw that at... but it created like 4psi or something.. i don't remember.

you could get a bov and put it in so that it'll sound like you have a real turbo. :lol:

[RocketFast321]

You will be better off using a gas leaf blower.

[Mike94SE]

Even better is to blow into the intake as you drive.

[GrandAmSSE]

Get a turbo even if you don't put it in you'll get more respect then with that.

[Mike94SE]

It's goin in.....

[inferno]

is there any way to make your own charger?

[GrandAmSSE]

Oh this will be funny. If you spray a hairdry black it looks like a turbo.

[99blackSE]

Lesson learned dude, thats all I can say. Hairdryers are good, the car ones anyways. So are actual blowers...

[GrandAmSSE]

I've heard of people making stuff but the power you'd need to have it do anything is more then you can make.

[RocketMan]

That electric super someone linked back on page 1.....now that looks like a scam. 12 V 4 amp motor??? The window reg motors in your car are beefier than that. But I still say its a bad example of a good concept.

[GrandAmSSE]

I think you could do it but it would be hard. Is to have it hooked into the alternator because the fast that spins the more power it makes. The faster it spins the more power it makes and gives more power to the E-S/C. Maybe something like that. Patent Pending. lololololol

[willdue]

itll be here weds at the latest

[skateswitch97]

oh my god this discussion again its been beat to death, one guy made like 50 hp of an electric super charger but he had 4 batteries in the trucnk adding like 300lbs, the ebay one are crap versions of it

[GrandAmSSE]

Its not a bad idea, just poorly designed.

[urweak]

Originally posted by 96GreenGaGT
you could get a bov and put it in so that it'll sound like you have a real turbo. :lol:

Wouldnt work considering you need pressure in the intake track to escape to create any sound from the BOV (thats what the sound is, pressurised are escaping) b/c this pos "supercharger" will not create boost!!!!!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydrofarm-exhaust-vent-fan-squirrel-duct-hydroponics_W0QQitemZ7745611705QQcategoryZ43555QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem This is all that "supercharger" is, its used in HAVC.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by willdue
Yea, im lookin for any performence upgrades I can get?

So far I have:

K&N Intake
Chip (+20hp)
Greddy Muffler
Supercharger(in the mail)

Filter, good start, but need to fabricate your own tubing to eliminate the restrictive stock silencers/resonators. Feel free to use this as a guideline... http://fazeshift.org/pics/thumbnails.php?album=64

Chip - If you got it on ebay, you just purchased a resistor worth pennies. It will not do anything except kill your fuel economy.

Greddy Muffler - As urweak mentioned, it's the piping that needs to be fabricated too, the muffler alone won't do much.

Supercharger - That ebay one is garbage. Throw it out.

Originally posted by willdue
Ill take all the crit on the supercharger, but i still wanna try em, its part of learnin and experiminting. As far as the catback exhuast, i want that, but cant find one on ebay for a 2.3L, only 2.4L, so help me find one and ill buy. And yes, I already have the full cold air intake, not just the K&N Filter. So list some more mods for me!

Don't bother trying. If it fails, your engine is going to ingest the parts that come off. An expensive lesson.

No catback kit exists. Have a shop fabricate the piping.

Oh, did you make the CAI yourself then?


Originally posted by 96GreenGaGT
there is one electronic s/c that's been dyno proven (supposedly) to produce 1psi. that one runs for about 400 bucks.


And that one still doesn't do jack. Let's not beat this dead horse again...
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52012

[inferno]

what if u used and electric motor and design it like a centerfugial (sp)charger. u know motor is attached to a large gear which contact a smaller gear that is connected to the impeller. then using some sort of piping for the pressurized outlet.

[Matt95GT]

:banghead:

[RocketMan]

There are different designs for devices like these, those that add kinetic energy and those that add potential energy. The centrifugal compressors increase pressure but not speed very much. They add potential energy in the form of pressure. This is what you want for a super, provided the velocity is still high enough to supply the engine with air and maintain that pressure. Other devices just accelerate the air linearly using a fan. These devices add kinetic energy, which must be turned into potential (pressure) through some sort of diffuser or other piping geometry. Usually this isn't very successfull since the pressure build up will push back on the fan blades and unless its a multi-stage turbine, the fan blades aren't very good at overpowering the back pressure. There will be losses.

I agree with those who have stated the design is good but in some cases is poorly implemented. If you use the right size of motor, the right type of compressor and the right electrical supply, you can get small-moderate gains that ARE cost effective and efficient. What many people are saying though is that they are all garbage because the larger models that compare to gas s/c's are terribly impractical.

Matt:

Stupid question maybe but, in that little gif under your name, what's "cor" mean? Is that the ignition timing correction...in degrees...as in 12 degrees before TDC?

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by RocketMan
Matt:

Stupid question maybe but, in that little gif under your name, what's "cor" mean? Is that the ignition timing correction...in degrees...as in 12 degrees before TDC?

Fuel Correction... at that moment it's subtracting about 12% fuel (via MAP sensor piggyback) to correct for my larger injectors that would otherwise be causing a very rich idle.

[GrandAmSSE]

I should pull the fan out of my old A/C unit and create a supercharger. hahahaha put it on Max cool and that should create some big gains. Bring new meaning to Cold air intake. hahahahahahahaha

[GrandAmSSE]

Oh my anwser for the wise ass who says it AC power use a power convertor.

[RocketMan]

That would be like burning a candle, to boil water, to turn a turbine, to create electricity, to run an electric heater to heat your home instead of using the candle.

[GrandAmSSE]

WTF???? Anyone understand that?

[RocketMan]

Translation: Kentucky Fried Chicken gives you cancer

[angrysk8r]

in short....the "powerchip" is worthless, the electric supercharger instead of adding boost is actually just a big blockage in your intake, a muffler does very little for horsepower, and a k&n drop in filter is about the only thing that's going to even add a fraction of a horsepower

[GrandAmSSE]

Sorry but I'm couldn't and still don't get it.

[RocketMan]

What are do'Nt you getting? If air control conditioning be sucks balls?! Power chip are not adding sum @ horses to you're car. Wut are these alternator f?rom belt mod to make CIa

... Angry i'm telling you an electric s/c is better than a lot of stuff out there, not the best, maybe not worth it to you but certainly nothing to sneeze at if you are a savy shopper who does his homework.

[urweak]

Originally posted by RocketMan
What are do'Nt you getting? If air control conditioning be sucks balls?! Power chip are not adding sum @ horses to you're car. Wut are these alternator f?rom belt mod to make CIa

... Angry i'm telling you an electric s/c is better than a lot of stuff out there, not the best, maybe not worth it to you but certainly nothing to sneeze at if you are a savy shopper who does his homework.

I dont think you could add 50hp for under $500 with an electric supercharger. You could run nitrous for that kind of money.

[RocketMan]

That's true...I don't think you could get 50 HP electrically for that price. But if you bought on that gave you 10, I bet you it would be about the price of an underdrive pulley.

[angrysk8r]

Originally posted by RocketMan

... Angry i'm telling you an electric s/c is better than a lot of stuff out there, not the best, maybe not worth it to you but certainly nothing to sneeze at if you are a savy shopper who does his homework.

i just think its a waste of money.....and how isn't it??? if a straight pipe adds more horsepower than some electric fan that costs 10x more then im not seeing how its "better than a lot of stuff out there"

If you HAD done your homework...you would notice that a GA sucks approx 400 CFM of air...but an electric supercharger puts out a max of about 300 CFM...idk about you but I wouldn't stick something that costs more than a straight pipe...and doesn't work as well


also...there is NO WAY IN HELL that an electric supercharger could give you 10 hp, infact there is no way it could even give you 1 hp, its just physically impossible

if you dont believe me, then read this http://60degreev6.com/Articles/Misc/Myths/elec_SC.jpg

[urweak]

This is the only electric supercharger i have seen that works. anything on ebay and so on is junk.
http://turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight/

But that is like $1000-$2000 and it works like nitrous, you can only run it for so many seconds. where as a real supercharger is on all the time. and could be had for around the same amount.

[RocketMan]

Didn't know about the 400 CFM thing. That's good to know. Where did you see that?

Respectfully your reasoning is still not quite right IMO. CFM is a unit of volumetric flow, most appropriately used for incompressable fluids, which air is not. For compressible fluids such as air, the flux or volumetric flow rate in CFM is meaningless without a measure of pressure as well. Centrifugal units are known for their characteristic behaviour of producing high pressure instead of high velocity, as opposed to linear devices. This means that the total head produced by the compressor is what is important. If the CFM's don't match, the compressor air will speed up to match the demand and the pressure will drop. Seeing as there are units with comparable flow rates, this pressure drop will be negligeable. It has been demonstrated experimentally.

I've seen that article enough thanks... its not physically impossible.

BTW I hate to reference such a comical video as evidence but did you think those guys who put a leaf blower in those 2 cars doctored the whole thing?

[angrysk8r]

Originally posted by RocketMan
Didn't know about the 400 CFM thing. That's good to know. Where did you see that?

Respectfully your reasoning is still not quite right IMO. CFM is a unit of volumetric flow, most appropriately used for incompressable fluids, which air is not. For compressible fluids such as air, the flux or volumetric flow rate in CFM is meaningless without a measure of pressure as well. Centrifugal units are known for their characteristic behaviour of producing high pressure instead of high velocity, as opposed to linear devices. This means that the total head produced by the compressor is what is important. If the CFM's don't match, the compressor air will speed up to match the demand and the pressure will drop. Seeing as there are units with comparable flow rates, this pressure drop will be negligeable. It has been demonstrated experimentally.

I've seen that article enough thanks... its not physically impossible.

i saw the 400 cfm info on the tech forum on gagt...but from what i remember it was just a rough estimate, it could be innacurate

still its a matter of efficiency, $1000-2000 for the one featured above that can only be used for short periods of time, completely drains most of the cars electric output, or $1000-2000 for a turbo or nitrous that add MUCH more hp

i see what you mean by flow and compression....but from what i have read it was impossible given the stock electrical output of a car, you would have to do some significant electrical reworking to have one work, i suppose it isn't technically physically impossible but its highly innefficient and just isn't worth it at all IMO

[RocketMan]

This is why I too think its impractical to use any electric s/c as part of the car's electrical system. I realized that a typical car battery, on its own, fully charged could power a small electric s/c drawing 1.4 kW for a good 45 minutes continuously, provided adequate aeration for the batt. If the batt is NOT connected to the alt, you can charge it at home perhaps with a dc charger at no loss in efficiency from mechanical conversion and in that sense the batt would be like a tank of nitrous, a temporary stock of virgin energy that would only be used at WOT and could provide small gains on the order of 10 HP, depending on the car of course. I think that so far the ads we've been analyzing have something arguably wrong about them which makes them impractical.....i'm not suggesting they are good. I'm suggesting that if you make all the rules yourself you can tailor the setup to BE good.

Where I think we are on the same page is that it's not a walk in the park to make an electric s/c work to provide the highest yield for your car. Nobody selling these things is stupid enough to sell a motor, a compressor, 100 feet of wiring, a special high discharge battery, a heat sink, an electronic waste gate, a chargine unit and a 100 page instruction manual when they can get the better of most people by making a convenient self contained bolt on unit that is kinda shitty at best. I guess I believe that the only people who would fathom the idea of an electric super should be those who are willing to get their hands dirty and do a bit of engineering themselves. I'm sure its a pain in the ass once you get tools in hand but on paper the idea is very simple and effective.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by RocketMan
That would be like burning a candle, to boil water, to turn a turbine, to create electricity, to run an electric heater to heat your home instead of using the candle.

Precisely why any electric supercharger is not practical.

Originally posted by urweak
I dont think you could add 50hp for under $500 with an electric supercharger. You could run nitrous for that kind of money.

x2.

Even if you could, that brings up another point... if these things actually worked, you would need fuel/tuning mods just like a real SC.

[Bouchie11982]

wow....just...uh wow...

[sunrunner_pei]

Around and around we go again. :banghead:

[cruzking88]

haha. why do people bring this upon themselves. anyone who has spent any time on the forum prior to this thread, would have found a similar thread with at least one person cracking a joke about an electric supercharger off ebay. and i watched that video where they used the leaf blower on the car and truck. i thought it was pretty funny how they cracked the nos bottle beside the blower to get it into the engine. it was prime.

[Dargasonus]

I heard electric super chargers give you better boost if you use them to replace your oil cap and hook it to your speaker amp.

[cruzking88]

driving with your donut spare tire on also adds power. bling points too!

[sunrunner_pei]

:padlock2: