Full Exhaust for the 3.4l??????

[SC/T Girl]

So who has a full exhaust on their 3.4l that sounds good and what all do they have? And sorry no Flowmasters for this gal.

I want to know who makes a full system from the headers back or at least cat back and then someone who sells headers. And anyone know the HP gains on these items?

Marie

[dmbprep69]

Borla has a cat back, and "the other guy's" have headers, there are other options the 3400 guys know more.
Peace,
Andrew

[SC/T Girl]

I knew of the Borla but not of the headers. I haerd of "The other guys" before just never took much time to look them up.

Marie

[ihatemygrandamg]

SLP and Borla make a cat back. SLP is 2.5in piping with no resonator and Borla is a bit quieter with 2.25 piping with a res. Both are nowher near as restrictive as stock exhaust, and Borla is much more expensive. Headers- S&S makes headers and so does a company called The Other Guys but I dont know if they are still in business, but neither are cheap at all. There is a guy in the process of making headers, as well as many other custom grandam performance parts, hes known as Milzy. Just to let you know many people on here will tell you to use the search button, which youll find much more info because this has been discussed hundreds of times.

You may want to check out

Milzymotorsports.com
pfyc.com
RSMracing.com (overpriced IMO)
Donkeypunchperformance.com

The list goes on, just do a search

[SC/T Girl]

I know I can search the net all day but when it comes down to it I want to know what others have done and tried. So I can make the best decisions based on experience not just by looks and info sheets.

Cause when it comes down to it the consumer is the best critic.

Marie

[tenspeed]

If you into loud, go with the SLP. My 2.2L Ecotec with a SLP is louder than a V6 with a Borla. Both systems are stainless and should last for the life of the car.

[ihatemygrandamg]

Many people with SLP change out the muffler to a magnaflow or borla or something. I didnt mean search the net, search the grandam forums and youll hear everyones feedback including what they likes/dislikes and problems they have come across with these products. If your going for a full exhaust like say S&S ceramic coated headers, high flow cat (recomended with headers), and an SLP catback look to spend around $1400 atleast. Plus installation unless you do it yourself, which is not an easy job for the headers.

[SC/T Girl]

I would be able to do it myself cause my husband and I have a shop that some of my friends own. So I have access to all the tools I need along with a hoist.

Marie

[xxbackhillxx]

I'll end this whole thread now.

Cat-backs:
MMS has the best cat-back system out there, but pricey.
If you want bang for the buck then go with SLP.
The Borla cat-back for the Grand Ams is crap, and expensive crap at that.

Headers:
S&S is the only company that currently produces headers for the Grand Am 3400.
TOG made better headers than S&S, but they are out of business so your only choice would be to buy used, if you can find some for sale.
MMS is currently making some and they will probably the best you can find.

[xtremecold]

Originally posted by xxbackhillxx
I'll end this whole thread now.

Cat-backs:
MMS has the best cat-back system out there, but pricey.
If you want bang for the buck then go with SLP.
The Borla cat-back for the Grand Ams is crap, and expensive crap at that.

Headers:
S&S is the only company that currently produces headers for the Grand Am 3400.
TOG made better headers than S&S, but they are out of business so your only choice would be to buy used, if you can find some for sale.
MMS is currently making some and they will probably the best you can find.

+1

[AznGA]

MMS makes cat-back exhaust for Grand Am's? I just checked their website and they didn't have it.

[xxbackhillxx]

you need to check the gagt.com boards more often. mike has been in the process of moving and is too busy to update his site on a regular basis.

he's had a cat-back available for 3-4 weeks now.

[ihatemygrandamg]

yea its great quality but not for tightwads.

[xxbackhillxx]

Originally posted by ihatemygrandamg
yea its great quality but not for tightwads.

the same can be said for borla. whats your point?

MMS's cat-back actually has significant performance gains.

[AznGA]

Originally posted by xxbackhillxx
the same can be said for borla. whats your point?

MMS's cat-back actually has significant performance gains.
I like the idea, but $800 for an exhaust system is rediculous. Especially when it comes with a Magnaflow muffler and tips. You can buy an SLP exhaust system and then switch out mufflers and tips for cheaper price.

How do you know MMS exhaust system alone has significant gains?

[ihatemygrandamg]

Originally posted by xxbackhillxx
the same can be said for borla. whats your point?

MMS's cat-back actually has significant performance gains.

Not trying to make a point, nor saying anything bad about milzy's products. Im just saying many grandam owners would rather pay $300 less for basically the same thing.

[xxbackhillxx]

If you wanna play you have to pay. 700 for borla is ridiculous. 800 for mms is well worth it.


Milzy's cat-back (the piping that is) tops that of SLP's as far as flow goes. thats where your money is going.

[2000BlackGAGT]

i paid 350 for the flowmaster 80 series and stainless tips. and all the custom piping needed, and i thought that was too much even

[xtremecold]

Well as they say you get what you pay for, If you want something that will produce good gains and WILL last. Get milzys exhaust system.

[Brandon]

i got a flowmaster 80's and love it. sounds great, more power and i didnt pay 5-700

[xxbackhillxx]

Just so I understand, you got more power from just a muffler and some tips?

[quadkid]

man, car parts are horrible.

I got Edelbrock TES headers and a Flowmaster Cat-back for my truck for under $500. After that I dont think anything can justify a $700+ pricetag. (yeah, i know, supply and demand)

[Brandon]

tips have nothing to do with it, but yes, i can tell there is a small amount of more power. gas milage seems to have gone up about 1.5 mpg.... and on the interstate, where i used to rev around 2100 rpm at 60-62 mph, im now reving about 18-1900 so you cant tell me its not doing anything different.

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by Brandon
. and on the interstate, where i used to rev around 2100 rpm at 60-62 mph, im now reving about 18-1900 so you cant tell me its not doing anything different. Regardless of performance modifications, you're engine WILL NOT turn slower at highway speeds (when the tranny is in converter lockup that is)! There is a set gear ratio and unless you change the ratio (tranmission rebuild we're talking) that will not change.

[Bjornboy81]

BTW Brandon, I'm afraid you're experiancing the "placebo" affect. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're not going to gain a "noticable" difference in power. You'll notice sound which may make it "feel" more powerful, but the actualy gain is probably less then 1 HP....and that's not noticable :)

[xxbackhillxx]

Originally posted by Brandon
tips have nothing to do with it, but yes, i can tell there is a small amount of more power. gas milage seems to have gone up about 1.5 mpg.... and on the interstate, where i used to rev around 2100 rpm at 60-62 mph, im now reving about 18-1900 so you cant tell me its not doing anything different.
and your 1.5 mpg increase can be attributed to the recent heat wave the midwest has been hit by. warmer weather = better mpg.

a muffler doesn't do ANYTHING besides change the sound/tone of an exhaust. it's the diameter of the piping before it that matters.

[Bjornboy81]

pipe girth is all that matters :D

[xxbackhillxx]

werd lol


"just so you know, im 11 inches ...


around. think about it."

[xonelith]

Originally posted by quadkid
man, car parts are horrible.

I got Edelbrock TES headers and a Flowmaster Cat-back for my truck for under $500. After that I dont think anything can justify a $700+ pricetag. (yeah, i know, supply and demand)

Is that coated? That's a damn good price for ceramic coated headers and stainless exhaust!

Note that the TOG's are more than you purchased everything for:)


Originally posted by Bjornboy81
pipe girth is all that matters :D

I believe where the bend is, is important too.

[Pte Socks]

Ive got a question, what makes milzy's stuff so much better than a borla exhaust. And what of these great gains? Id seriously like to see what serious gains you made out of an exhaust that blows the borla one out of the water. Post some dyno's and 1/4's so people might start believing you more. By itself, the borla is probably the best buy out of the exhausts, as it maintains the best torque with its smaller piping which is great for those that dont plan on other mods. With 2.5" you will lose some of your low end power, especially your torque, so just beware.

[xxbackhillxx]

ill be blunt. borla is shit. and saying you lose torque with SLP is the most ridiculous myth out there. you MAY lose 1 ft lb. people think they lose low end power because all the power is gained higher up on the powerband. so you're wrong.

borla is stock piping thats smoothed out a little more for slightly better flow. and it shows only slight performance gains.

SLP and MMS has 2.5'' piping all the way back. Where MMS eccels over SLP is over the rear suspension. MMS's cat-back is much much smoother and better flowing in that portion of the exhaust.

[Bjornboy81]

I disagree, you do lose low end torque with larger pipeing. As far as the rear axle, the SLP is only slightly crushed (if that's even what you want to call it) in order to clear the axle...how does MMS do it? Do you have any pics? Besides, the difference in 6" of piping = 0.01HP

[xxbackhillxx]

Ask MMS on that one. And either way, even if you don't lose torque with Borla, you sure as hell don't gain much HP. SLP or MMS ftw.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by xxbackhillxx
a muffler doesn't do ANYTHING besides change the sound/tone of an exhaust. it's the diameter of the piping before it that matters.
Actually you are incorrect.

Yes, larger pipe diameters do help incress hp, but if that was where all the power was from people would bolt larger pipes onto stock mufflers. After all why waste money replacing the most expensive part of the catback system?

Sound barriers inside a muffler can be restrictive, especially in factory exhaust systems. Replacing one with a higher flow muffler with less internal restriction does infact incress exhaust flow thus improving power.
Originally posted by Bjornboy81
I disagree, you do lose low end torque with larger pipeing.
Also not entirely true.

This all depends on how much larger you incress your exhaust and the motor your working with. Many factory systems, especially in the early 80s-late 90s vehicles have pretty restrictive exhaust systems. For example incressing the exhaust system on a 3rd generation Z28 by .25" will show nothing but overall gains in torque and hp. Now if one were to go .50" over on a stock motor they might experience a little loss in low rpm power.

[Bjornboy81]

^When I said that I was referring to my car with 2.5" pipe specifically :)

[TA^Guy]

got ya. :)

[SC/T Girl]

Sounds like a little pissing match boys.

I figure just get a better filter/Intake throw a little more petro at her along with the new exhaust and you will get an increase all around. Better air flow in and out along with the needed timing and increase is a must.

All I agree on is we need some measurements on the distance of the pissing match.......... Dyno and 1/4 mile slips that is.:lol: :lol:

Marie

[SC/T Girl]

So the verdict is that I am not going to do any of these. But thanks for the info boys.

I am going to make my own exhaust with a Dynomax ultra flow. One I will get better flow with the straight through design and I will get the low rumble that I want so I am not just another Ricer out there and all in all it will cost about $200-$400 cheaper which has always been goo in my book.

Marie

[xxbackhillxx]

It's hard, since most grand am owners don't like throwing too much money out for mods, and even less go dyno afterwards.

[SC/T Girl]

I have a local dyno hear in Spring Lake, MI so I will be running mine on it once I have something on it to bost about.

Marie

[TA^Guy]

Screw the distance, my 'ish is accurate.

And that's a fact you can bank on. :)

[Pte Socks]

Hehehe just too sorry to break it to you, but you end up losing power with the 2.5" as I have dyno's to prove it. Second, if you honestly think the borla is stock piping smoothed out, your dead wrong. 1.95" is the outside diameter of GA piping. Hey john, you remember where I have a post of my old dyno's? I honestly cant remember. Anywho, probably just use the search button and you will find the actual dyno's that prove what a stock exhaust runs like vs a 2.5" where you will notice 10 hp @ 4000 rpms and about 12 ft-lbs of torque loss at the same number. I just cant see why someone who come on here and say a Borla exhuast is shit since ive seen it first hand and I know what the piping is like on our cars firsthand. Ask people around here and they can tell you I know my shit and I know what im talking about, especially on this topic.

[SC/T Girl]

How really cares any more just live with what you want.

All I know if you are making the power a larger exhaust is going to give you gains to a certain point( nothing like 6"), but if you have a stock engine that runs just like stocker you might not get the same gains as a modified engine would get with the larger exhaust.

But any way quit whoring the thread.

Marie

[Pte Socks]

Its not like that at all sc/t girl. Dont be fooled into thinking that a larger exhaust will give you power until a certain point because going with too large of an exhaust will ruin your power due to loss of backpressure. Ive seen plenty of times where an improper exhaust can greatly hurt you. For example an s/c'd GA with smaller than a 2.5" exhaust usually isnt breathing properly and thus you cant take full advantage of your mods as it becomes a bottle neck. The same can be said with going with too large of an exhaust. A buddy of mine did an sr20 swap for his 240 and found with a 4" exhaust, his power band was extremely small with the amount of power he was pushing. 270 -300 hp with a 4" exhaust was way overkill and now hes stuck with it until he can afford a smaller one. The exhaust just like any mod has to be thought out properly or else you just run into problems. That is why its ideal to build a car with several mods at a time, in stages as compared to one mod at a time.

[curtpank]

Originally posted by Pte Socks
Second, if you honestly think the borla is stock piping smoothed out, your dead wrong. 1.95" is the outside diameter of GA piping.

Stock GT or SE piping?

[Jessika]

We got flowmasters but only because we got an AWESOME deal on them (seriously, they were practically giving them away) but otherwise if I was going to save up I'd get Borla

[wrpIIgt]

i know you said no flowmasters but i have a flowmaster 40 series muffler with 2.5" piping. It sounds mean it has a deep rumble and its not too loud when driving.