capacitors?

[Serbam]

hey can someone tell me if these are good quality capacitors and for the prices thnx

www.raptor-online.com --------C10FM - 1 farad digital for $100 ---------- C2FSM - 2 farad digital for $150


http://www.poweracoustik.com ------ PC10F - 1.2 farad digital for $100


and which one do u recomend from these 2 thnx

[airbornflght]

capacitors arent really needed and are a waste of money imho.

What some people dont understand is that as the capacitor can discharge superquickly, it also has to be replenished, which takes time. These are fine for competition cars, as they are doing very short bursts (burps) but for a daily driver, its just another load on the system (they arent 100% efficient) and more cost out of your pocket, but if you want one, a rule of thumb is 1 farrad per 1000 watts...

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by airbornflght
capacitors arent really needed and are a waste of money imho.

What some people dont understand is that as the capacitor can discharge superquickly, it also has to be replenished, which takes time. These are fine for competition cars, as they are doing very short bursts (burps) but for a daily driver, its just another load on the system (they arent 100% efficient) and more cost out of your pocket, but if you want one, a rule of thumb is 1 farrad per 1000 watts...

I have to disagree slightly:

Capacitors can discharge waaaay faster than any battery ever can, so when you have a large surge of current, the battery and Cap will supply the power. The cap will then, almost instantly, recharge...it's don't "take time" like you say, it's probably within 10msec at most...from totally discharged, which isn't usually the case. Capacitors take a huge beating off the electrical system (alternator, battery) and could actually help extend the life of both depending on the size of the stereo it's powering.

I do agree that they are not 100% effecient, but what is? You're losing energy through your power cable, terminals, and everything else, so what's another few watts lost?

As for the original question, for the most part a capacitor is a capacitor. Because they are passive devices and have no moving parts, there's very little to go wrong. Both look pretty good, but remember don't over kill it. Like Andy mentioned before, 1 Farad per 1000W.

:)

[quadkid]

I personally like the upgraded battery and alternator method better. With a cap you only help the audio system, but a high output alternator will help all the electronics in your car.

For example, my truck has a 140amp alternator and it supplies enough for my 2 10" Kickers and offroad lights (about 700watts total), so I dont get any dimming headlights during normal useage. I also listen to country and rock so Im not constantly bumpin the system, lol.

Another cheap trick is to upgrade the Big3. What you do is add a parallel line of heavy gauge (0 to 4ga) to your battery to alt, engine block to ground, and battery to ground. Its cheap and effective if youre not running a crazy system.

[Bjornboy81]

If you have a big enough system, then it's worth it to also do the battery and alternator, but for a low to mid system I think a cap is the best (and cheapest) way to go. My thought is that you aren't drawing huge amounts of current all the time, so what's the point of upgrading to something that is capable of producing it all the time...why not add something that can supply it some of the time :)

[airbornflght]

I can agree with paul for the most part, everyone has a different point of view, some people see them as nesesary, i happen to see them as useless unless you are going to have a massive bank of them for a competition vehicle.

but yeh, i think it all depends on your electrical system. and no ones system will need the same thing as well as its a matter of personal preference.

[quadkid]

My thought is that you aren't drawing huge amounts of current all the time, so what's the point of upgrading to something that is capable of producing it all the time...why not add something that can supply it some of the time
good point Paul. alternators arent cheap.

I guess I just need it since I always have my lights on and I draw a lot of current frequently for periods of time ... unlike sub hits.

[Bjornboy81]

Hey Sean, If you're running deep cycles on your battery (not sure how you're using it) you should really add another battery. Lead acid batteries are only meant to be run down (like down to 10.5V) only several times....usually 7 or 8 times, then they start losing charge holding capability. Just a thought :)

Back on topic though: Gogi, I guess it depends on your system, but you can make that determination, but those caps look pretty good, and a good deal for digital :)

You have any specs on your system?

[Serbam]

thnx guys....i have 2 10' alpines pushing 800 watts max each and a Pioneers amp i think its 600watts..so ill probably get a 1 farad cap.and plus it canadian Money so its not bad.

[Brandon]

ive got a cap, and its worth it. saves the dimming of the headlights and every other light when you have it turned on. i have the digital top (Which causes me some problems with humming noises when i have the remote wire connected to turn on the digital readout and i dunno how to fix it other then to pull the remote wire) anywho... they are nice to have if you have a system that is pulling enough to make your lights dim and flicker when the bass goes boom.

[ancona46]

im running 2 amps one is 980 watts the other is like 200 and i have the PCNC3.0F it helped a litle bit but not much

[quadkid]

Paul, I have concidered getting another battery setup since the diesels came with them and I can get all the factory mounts for dirt cheap ...

BUT i dont really need the deep cycle since I dont ever run the lights with the truck off, and I dont volunteer to be the DJ at bonfires or BBQs anymore, so my single high CCA AC Delco works fine with the 140amp alt.

[magyver]

Originally posted by Brandon
ive got a cap, and its worth it. saves the dimming of the headlights and every other light when you have it turned on. i have the digital top (Which causes me some problems with humming noises when i have the remote wire connected to turn on the digital readout and i dunno how to fix it other then to pull the remote wire) anywho... they are nice to have if you have a system that is pulling enough to make your lights dim and flicker when the bass goes boom.

what? get a stinger cap.. i have a red digital display, it turns on when it see's a voltage change.. or its above 13V its on constant.. and when it see's enough V drop, 8 blue led's dance around.. oh, its got a blue CCFL around the top.. its sexy...

[Lash]

Heres a good thread about caps:
http://audioforum.termpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/6/t/001072.html
Did you see how many farads they recommend for the cap to actually make a difference?????1 farad for ever 100 watts!!!!!! Get tyour wallet out! You could damn near buy a yellow top and a HO alt. for the price of some of those caps and be MUCH better off.







"i happen to see them as useless unless you are going to have a massive bank of them for a competition vehicle."

Actually...99% of all comp. vehicles DONT USE CAPS. They can supply WAY more power by running multiple batteries. I hate caps and will NEVER use one. A 2nd battery is where it's at.

[airbornflght]

thats probably true, i was just theorizing, if you had a MASSIVE bank of them, and had them all fully charged, you may be able to get a little better output from the amps. but yeh, i wont use one.

[matts]

i've got a 2nd battery and a 1 farad cap in the GA, but the cap is really there more for looks than function. it sounds just like the one magyver described, it does look pretty cool

[inferno]

my cap ended up shitting the bed on me only after like 2 weeks use. so i tossed it. i justed installed an optima red top up front and will be installing a yellow top in the trunk when i get an upgraded alt.

i too thinks caps are a waste of money

[matts]

if you've got small problems i think they help, have me in the past. but i wouldn't let that be my only upgrade if i were running over 1000 watts RMS or so, at that point then yes, it would be a waste of money

[RocketMan]

I know of using caps for stuff like filtering but I never heard of this before....so you use it as a charge resevoir for when the sound system spikes or something and draws too much current, draining power from other systems?? Interesting...sounds expensive too :D

Caps have a particular time constant that depends on the circuit resistance and the capacitance. Its the same for charging and discharging...unless there's a switching circuit that somehow changes the impedance of the circuit depending on current flow.

[Bjornboy81]

what kind of engineer are you?...electrical, mechanical?

If you are referring to "filtering" as in a rectifier circuit, that cap in this application is being used in kinda the same way. It stiffens the DC voltage from the battery, by supplying extra current when a large draw on the battery occurs... :)

As far as the charging/discharging time constant, it kinda irrelavant here, because 1) you fully charge the cap when you put it into the system, 2) the capacitance is so large (usually 1F or better) that it barly discharges, 3) the cap is wired in parallel with the battery so there is "no" resistance, hence, no charging time constant (very little resistance = virtually instantanious charge time) :)

[RocketMan]

cool....sounds like a neat idea

but as other's have alluded, is it practical?

btw i'm a mechatronic...a new f***d up breed of engineer with half of my face circuitry and the other half made of an extruded I beam :lol:

[Bjornboy81]

oh....mechanical....that explains it :roll2:






:D j/p

[ZACH]

Well I'm just a dumb dirt engineer :lol: (Civil), but I agree with Paul.

[RocketMan]

....about what part?....the "me being a dumbass" part or the "capacitors discharge quickly" part?

[ZACH]

Originally posted by Bjornboy81
As far as the charging/discharging time constant, it kinda irrelavant here, because 1) you fully charge the cap when you put it into the system, 2) the capacitance is so large (usually 1F or better) that it barly discharges, 3) the cap is wired in parallel with the battery so there is "no" resistance, hence, no charging time constant (very little resistance = virtually instantanious charge time) :)

^^^ That part ^^^

[Bjornboy81]

Originally posted by RocketMan
....about what part?....the "me being a dumbass" part or the "capacitors discharge quickly" part? :roflmfao:


I was almost going to do Mechanical, but I realized playing with thousands of volts was way more fun :D

[RocketMan]

i'll tell a quck anectode at the risk of digressing too much.

Once in an electrical lab we were doing that trivial experiment involving pith balls and static charge. To provide the static we used a van de graff machine and two capacitive "cans". Sort of the same size as a pop can these things were insulated layers that held 10 000 volts. The outside surface was one terminal and the inside was the other, with a dielectric in between. This we used as a resevoir for giving our pith balls charge. At the end of the lab I was supposed to return them but i figured "well...why let 10 000 volts go to waste?" so being the rational person that I am, I decided to touch the two cans I had together.

Everything I knew told me i should be safe. After all the cans were insulated, and touching them should discharge current "between" them and not through me....

Unfortunately as I brought my extended arms together in a grand finale of gestures, a bolt of blue lightning arced across the gap between the cans as they got close and ventured into my body, causing my body to spasm violently and launching me to the floor. I lost my hearing and sight for about 30 seconds and when I regained my faculties I could distinctly hear my so called friends commenting on how awesome of a demonstration I proved to be.

Lesson learned....don't ride the lightning :D

[Bjornboy81]

:lol: That's awesome!

[Bumpin1OHM]

only reason id use a cap is to filter, and pretty much there aint much AC goin on in a car besides the music ur playing so whats the point!

awhile ago caps real purpose was forgotten (filtering power) and became, hey, these make your lights dim less, so it MUST be helping your car and hey, your system sounds better too i bet!

capacitors used for stiffening purposes in car audio is a joke. there is no audible difference that humans can hear, even if it was dead silent!

the only time a caps discharge would even be worth while is on a very fast note, but if you listen to rap or something like that, your caps are just another load on your system after the first what, <100ms of each bass note.

if your doing them for looks, thats fine. because about the only function (for some) they have is displaying voltage!

[Bjornboy81]

I totally disagree. As I said before the Capacitor is capable of discharging way faster than a battery. When there is a large current surge drawn by the amp (even if it is for <100ms), the battery voltage will decrease because of the extra load and internal impedances. With the cap in parallel the extra current needed will be drawn from the cap as well, thus taking strain off your electrical system.

You say its for AC filter only, but what's really going on during a large current surge that makes the battery voltage drop???....You have "fluctuating DC voltage" which to a capacitor is seen as AC, hence the "filtering" that you speak of ;)

[Lash]

Caps suck...end of story.

[Bjornboy81]

that's your opinion

[96GreenGaGT]

capacitors will smooth out the bass in your system. well at least it did for me.. and my friend. it also hit harder. so i would say it works as a filter... but to each their own.

if you want to get a cap and not pay a hell of a lot for one.. then go with a german company that makes subs as well. they are really good and i bought my cap on ebay for 40 bucks.

volfenhag is the name.

[Lash]

Originally posted by Bjornboy81
that's your opinion

As well as 95% of people who get pretty deep into car audio.
I could almost guarentee that 99% of audio competitors will tell you they are a waste of money.....the other 1% will tell you they are awesome and to go out and buy one because they are trying to push a companies product for whom they are sponsored by.

Step 1) BIG 3 upgrade

Step 2) Second battery

Step 3) H.O. Alternator

Step 4 (when you really start to get serious) Multiple batteries


Dont waste your money.

[Lash]

Originally posted by 96GreenGaGT
capacitors will smooth out the bass in your system. well at least it did for me.. and my friend. it also hit harder.

Wow...I'm amazed that you could actually HEAR a difference :roll2:

[Bumpin1OHM]

its all psychoaccoustics brought on by his wallet being thinned

-Dr Bumpin

[Lash]

^ Nice set-up you have there :)

[Bumpin1OHM]

yea, too bad my waterpump went out and i just dropped a load of money on a new configuration... and i have to save up to get the waterpump fixed... doh

[Lash]

yeah...water pumps > LD9's. Should cost around $1200 or so.

[Bumpin1OHM]

nah, dealer wants 882

[Lash]

wow...thats a damn good price.

[Bumpin1OHM]

i was just reading another forum, and i was like.. hmm hey...

YEA! ur lash on carstereos.org :)

[Lash]

yup...and every other site I post on...lol.


I new I recongnized your set-up...:)