99+ Front and Rear STB group buy 60 shipped anywhere in the US

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by prototypepacifi
The ones ordered from driving gear in the group buy are straight. They are also elevated on the brackets like in Joey's picture.

You guys may be ok then. Not for sure but keep your fingers crossed. Could you put some electrical tape around the bar in the area over the alt. The go out & hammer on it a while? Or maybe just wrap it & then beat on it some on the way to work & then check the tape tomorow evening?

[JoeyK]

Here's a pic of what I did since the brackets hit the bottom side of the hood. I ground them flat, notice the rust spot where it was hitting? It was very slight but it was hitting.

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by b2089
So are the ones we are getting arched for the front or have we all invested in a lemon?


Uhhmmm,
Have you read from the beginning, or just jumped in @ the end.
1. They are straight bars.
2. They are not lemons, just $60 bars that need some adjusting on certain cars.
3. Not everyone is having problems.
4. A rubber coating won't do shit when the alternator output terminal cuts through it, and you short out the electrical system.
If you do, it may fry everything, INCLUDING the computer.
Don't half ass the install. Bend the bar a little if necessary and be safe.

[prototypepacifi]

I went and checked out my front bar, my alternator hasn't hit it at all. I've got about an inch and a half clearance between it and the bar. I also didn't see anything on the hood, but I'm not too worried about that if it does happen.

I also thought the bars were a little more elevated than the ones in Joey's picture, but they're not. They're extended out towards the center of the car a bit more (the welded on part is about twice the size of the ones in Joey's pictures), but that shouldn't make a difference in anything.

I had no clearance issues with my rear bar. I think I already posted this, but the only problem I had with it was in the holes for one of the brackets. They were off (not even by 1/8th of an inch) and I had to kinda force the bar into place, instead of it just falling into place like my front one did.

All in all this product is DEFINATELY worth the $60 (for me, anyways) so suck it up and buy it already! :P

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by prototypepacifi
I
I had no clearance issues with my rear bar. I think I already posted this, but the only problem I had with it was in the holes for one of the brackets. They were off (not even by 1/8th of an inch) and I had to kinda force the bar into place, instead of it just falling into place like my front one did.

All in all this product is DEFINATELY worth the $60 (for me, anyways) so suck it up and buy it already! :P

Yeah the rear brackets on mine did not point directly @ each other, but I was able to get the bar in and secured.
Like you said, for $60 shipped, it's worth it.
What more do you want for $60.

[roksoc]

I just checked my hood and bar and have had no problems with any hitting. I have been driving the car very hard redlinign alot and making very hard turns ( All in a safe area ofcourse) and the car feels alot better then before the bars and I have not had any starnge noises or anything out of the ordinary except for a vibration in my pass side break but that was there before the STB's

[b2089]

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
Uhhmmm,
Have you read from the beginning, or just jumped in @ the end.
1. They are straight bars.
2. They are not lemons, just $60 bars that need some adjusting on certain cars.
3. Not everyone is having problems.
4. A rubber coating won't do shit when the alternator output terminal cuts through it, and you short out the electrical system.
If you do, it may fry everything, INCLUDING the computer.
Don't half ass the install. Bend the bar a little if necessary and be safe.

I've been reading along, I just know that
1. Joey has a pre-03.5 car like mine
2. Everyone recently got their bars but Joey has had his so problemsmay not have arrisen yet
3. He got his from the same guy and had problems and had to try a different bar which oddly enough we aren't getting for god knows why
4. I'm hoping that contact won't occur at all, the rubber coating is for peace of mind only. Any contact must be stopped period.

Like I've said before, when I put money down I like to cover all bases. From looking at the pics I think we'll all (as in pre 03.5 cars) be okay on the clearance because even if the alt. moves it would be below the bar. I hope those with the newer ones won't have issues either.

[prototypepacifi]

Joey first had a completely different bar than we are getting, which is the one he had problems with. He also still has a completely different bar than we're getting.

Pre 03.5 cars SHOULD NOT have a problem with clearance with the alt and these bars. I have a 99 GA with the V6 and have the same bars ordered in this group buy and have 1.5-2 inches of clearance between the bar and the alt.

[b2089]

Originally posted by prototypepacifi
Joey first had a completely different bar than we are getting, which is the one he had problems with. He also still has a completely different bar than we're getting.

Pre 03.5 cars SHOULD NOT have a problem with clearance with the alt and these bars. I have a 99 GA with the V6 and have the same bars ordered in this group buy and have 1.5-2 inches of clearance between the bar and the alt.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Mine arrive tommorow, Wednesday that is. I'll install them Friday perhaps because I work night shifts wed and thurs.

[slowbird]

I got mine today...went to install the front.

This bar is ****ing useless!!
:mad:

It rubs the Alternator pos cable...under throttle the alt rocks back and shakes the whole bar....it also push down on the throttle cables.

I know I have to bend the bar...but now I have to find someone who'll bend it for me...and all this work for a stupid STB.

This sucks.

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by slowbird
I got mine today...went to install the front.

This bar is ****ing useless!!
:mad:

It rubs the Alternator pos cable...under throttle the alt rocks back and shakes the whole bar....it also push down on the throttle cables.

I know I have to bend the bar...but now I have to find someone who'll bend it for me...and all this work for a stupid STB.

This sucks.

Matt,
Don't give up.
Just put the bar on 2 blocks of 2x4's and step on it to bend it.
DO IT GENTLY, just a little at a time.
If 2 doesn't work add another block, or lay it on something fairly solid like 6-12 inches high @ one end, with the other end on floor,
and step in the middle. Keep the threaded insert in to protect the threads.
Put something under ends to keep from scratching it.
Then get it as tight as possible with the bar down and toward the rear, put the through bolts in the brackets, then rotate the bar up , it will tighten it a lttle more, then tighten your jamb nuts.
It took me 4-5 times of adding more bend to get it where I wanted it. Don't bend it so much though that it sticks above the weatherstrip @ the rear of the hood !!

Also, I think the cables are for cruise and tranny kickdown ?
Mine had enough give to just push them down a little.

[slowbird]

Yea...I know it can be done...it just seems like too much work for a STB...and bending it will probably make the bar all assy looking and I'll end up having to paint it or something.

[AeR0]

wow im kind of glad i have not paid for my bars...

first off i notice everyone who is buying them has a v6 grand am .. i have a 2.4 grand am so i am not going to have any problems with the alternator rubbing... my only concern would be is would the bar be rubbing on the hood?

if someone could clarify that for me it would be good.
also how come the guy who started this group buy has not been replying in the last 3 pages of posts?

[TheTrader]

Well, I think a little more research could have been done in the fitment of these bars before they were offered... but so far it seems like everyone has made them fit somehow or another....

But I have a new one... if you drive a Ecotec 5 Speed like me, your sure to find it....

I believe it is the clutch fluid ?? not sure, but the bar runs right into it... the cap can be seen in this picture of tenspeeds engine and you can see how his STB is designed to the bar comes forward more... likely so it wont hit this!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/tenspeed/Ecotec%20engine/engine011.jpg

its the one with the 2 little rusty studs holding it to the firewall... I plan on removing it, and droping it down half an inch or so, and using some self taping screws to mount it... in the pic it kind of looks like it is a part of the brake fluid tank, but I can assure you, its not, its seperate, and only has one small flexible tube attached to it



Does anyone see an problems with doing this??

If I dont do it, the bar presses right down on the top of the cap... it wont ever come off with the bar installed.



Also, whats the procedure to install this... can I remove all 3 bolts at the same time from the strut tower without something moving???

[slowbird]

That bar is completely different than the one I got.

[TheTrader]

Originally posted by slowbird
That bar is completely different than the one I got.

yes, of course it is, he probally paid close to 200 bucks from RSM for that I think.... the bar we got is a generic, that happens to fit between our strut towers... not much research went into the fitment other then that

[slowbird]

Originally posted by TheTrader
yes, of course it is, he probally paid close to 200 bucks from RSM for that I think.... the bar we got is a generic, that happens to fit between our strut towers... not much research went into the fitment other then that

Ohhhhh! :eek:

I see.

[99GrandAMSE]

Sorry guys ... I had my fingers crossed for you :(

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by TheTrader
Also, whats the procedure to install this... can I remove all 3 bolts at the same time from the strut tower without something moving???

I removed all 3 from both sides all together and had no problems. As long as the car isn't jacked up it should be fine.

I believe the nuts are supposed to be torqued down to 20ft/lbs. I don't have a torque wrench, and didn't see it as being that important (or just didn't care? :) ) but I could tighten the bolt a little bit before I took them off. I just tightened them back up a little tighter than they were just to be safe.

Also, if you've got a 99-03.5 GA with the 3400 you should have NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with the installation of these STBs, except for having to put a bit of force on the rear one to make it go on. I'm not sure about the 4 cylinder engine, because I don't have one.

[AeR0]

sorry guys im out of this group buy ..

way to many problems with the bars i was looking for a simple bolt on but im not getting that here.

also i dont see anyone else with the 2.4's buying these so i dont know how well they are going to work for me

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by AeR0
sorry guys im out of this group buy ..

way to many problems with the bars i was looking for a simple bolt on but im not getting that here.

also i dont see anyone else with the 2.4's buying these so i dont know how well they are going to work for me

Damn, again, what do you expect for $60 shipped.
The price is a steal !!!!!!!!
The mods are so simple that anyone with basic mechanic skills can make the thing fit.
Hell, it's easier than changing front brake pads.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but how many of you actually wrench on your cars.
If you do any type of wrenching, this is a no brainer install with a 5 minute mod. to the bar on a 2003-1/2 up !!!

Also, if you are worried about fit on a 4 cyl, take a piece of pvc pipe and lay across from strut to strut and see if anything comes close.
Look @ the pics to get an idea where to position it.

And yes, you can remove all three nuts/bolt @ once to install.

[TheTrader]

Originally posted by AeR0
sorry guys im out of this group buy ..

way to many problems with the bars i was looking for a simple bolt on but im not getting that here.

also i dont see anyone else with the 2.4's buying these so i dont know how well they are going to work for me

I am doing it on the Eco.... one simple mod to do, thats it... you might not even have to do that on the 2.4....

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by slowbird
That bar is completely different than the one I got.

Hehehe,
I bet it is !!!:lol:

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
Damn, again, what do you expect for $60 shipped.
The price is a steal !!!!!!!!
The mods are so simple that anyone with basic mechanic skills can make the thing fit.
Hell, it's easier than changing front brake pads.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but how many of you actually wrench on your cars.
If you do any type of wrenching, this is a no brainer install with a 5 minute mod. to the bar on a 2003-1/2 up !!!

Also, if you are worried about fit on a 4 cyl, take a piece of pvc pipe and lay across from strut to strut and see if anything comes close.
Look @ the pics to get an idea where to position it.

And yes, you can remove all three nuts/bolt @ once to install.

This post sums up every question asked.

I mean, hell..if it didn't fit I bet you could sell it for even more than the $60! Get your money back and then some.

In the picture of the RSM stb on the 4 cyl engine its only blocking the brake cylinder, from what I can tell. How often do you open that cap anyways? How long would it really take to remove the stb to gain access to that cap if you needed it?

This is definately worth the $60. Those of you that aren't buying or are backing out of it are making a mistake by passing this up if you don't already have stb's. You could always go buy a different stb for $100+ a piece and have the same problems with some of them.

[SEMPERFI8387]

Heard that !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I bet I could sell just the front STB on Fleabay for $75 plus $20 shipping easy.

[AeR0]

u guys brought up some good points maybe tommo i will open my hood and reconsider

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by AeR0
u guys brought up some good points maybe tommo i will open my hood and reconsider

I very much believe you will NOT be dissapointed !!

[JoeyK]

Anyone whom is THAT worried about the clearence on thier '03.5 + can always request an arched bar before you order. I think the seller needs to know of this issue with the 2003 & 1/2 + anyways. Poor guy/gal is going to be in for a potential headache from pi$$ed off Ebayers. For it to be safe for the seller the best bet is a straight bar for '99 to '03.5 & an arched for '03.5 to '05. (& as we all know by now, the rear is no problem with any 99+ G.A.)
As the guys were stating, if you have any ounce of mechanical aptitude you can make it work with little effort & is well worth the savings. Stb's aren't rocket scientry, it's just 2 bolt on brackets & a bar, an adjustable bar at that.

[roksoc]

I have already contacted the seller about the problem adn he is revising the auctions to say that they only fit certain years.

wouldnt an arched bar hit the hood more?

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by roksoc


wouldnt an arched bar hit the hood more?

Nope. Only problem I ever had was the brackets themselves slightly touched the bottom of the hood. The bar itself is no problem at all. Mine is so slight it's probably not a common problem. If it would ever happen to anyone you caould just do as I said; file down or grind down the tops of the brackets a little bit.

[sush]

hi guys.
im driving a 2005 grand am se. Has anyone used this on a 2004 or 05 grand am? i was just ready to order mine and now im worried. about it fitting.

also, i made a custom box for my sub, and it seems to be too high. i really dont want to remake the box, would it be alright to just add 2 bolts in between the car and the bars on each side (i can move the capacitor, the box is the problem, look at pic pls)?

http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02008.JPG

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by sush
hi guys.
im driving a 2005 grand am se. Has anyone used this on a 2004 or 05 grand am? i was just ready to order mine and now im worried. about it fitting.

also, i made a custom box for my sub, and it seems to be too high. i really dont want to remake the box, would it be alright to just add 2 bolts in between the car and the bars on each side (i can move the capacitor, the box is the problem, look at pic pls)?

http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02008.JPG

The box is fine, the capacitor is not. If you relocate the cap. you'll be fine. If you look in the pic this is pretty much a dead on shot. The bar is about even with the top of the pass through opening.

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by sush
hi guys.
im driving a 2005 grand am se. Has anyone used this on a 2004 or 05 grand am? i was just ready to order mine and now im worried. about it fitting.

also, i made a custom box for my sub, and it seems to be too high. i really dont want to remake the box, would it be alright to just add 2 bolts in between the car and the bars on each side (i can move the capacitor, the box is the problem, look at pic pls)?

http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02008.JPG

You'll have the alternator problem. You could try bending your bar like Semperfi did, or try asking the seller if he could provide a curved bar instead of the straight bar for the front.

[sush]

just a bend?

will a bend fix this? i think ill need more elevation (bolts/spacers), i know its just rubber hitting it. but i dont think i should risk it...


http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02131.JPG

http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02136.JPG

[AeR0]

ok so with my 2.4 do you think im going to have any problems with the hood and the bar rubbing?

[DoubleOZeroGAse]

Aero, if you're that concerned, I just ordered a set for my 2.4L. I'll let you know how they work when they're installed ;)

[AeR0]

awesome thanks!


i just dont want to be ordering bars and having to bend them.

i want something that bolts right on with no problems.
when are you expected to have yours?

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by sush
just a bend?

will a bend fix this? i think ill need more elevation (bolts/spacers), i know its just rubber hitting it. but i dont think i should risk it...


http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02131.JPG

http://www.geocities.com/sushi187/DSC02136.JPG

Yep, just a bend (from what I know)

Semperfi did the same thing and I believe it doesn't hit anymore. Check a couple pages back in the thread and he's got pictures and everything.

[SEMPERFI8387]

Is it just me, or are you guys asking the exact same questions over and over again. :???:

READ first, look @ the pictures I posted !!

Again, if you can't make a simple bend in this bar, oh never mind. :roll2:

[slowbird]

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
Is it just me, or are you guys asking the exact same questions over and over again. :???:

READ first, look @ the pictures I posted !!

Again, if you can't make a simple bend in this bar, oh never mind. :roll2:

Okay...you need to calm down. Relax.

People are just trying to make sure they get all the info before they spend money on this thing.

Personally...I don't think I'd have bought the bar if I knew it would hit the Alt. I don't want to waste time on trying to bend the bar and making it fit. It's too much of a PITA for so little gain.

...and speaking of gain...the brackets that the bar itself attaches to has such a large space it looks like the bar won't be 100% tightly attached to the bracket which takes away the whole point of the ST Bar in the first place.

A buddy and me are gonna try and bend the bar slightly in his shop cause it's either raining here or SCOLDING HOT so I'd like to do this indoors. Hopefully I won't have to paint the bar afterwards.

There's a reason why these bars are so cheap.

Yea...the $80 CDN I paid is pretty good for two Aluminum pipes, they'll come in handy the next time I play CLUE and I meet Prof. Plumb in the Library.

My opinion...if you have a 2004 or 2005....don't bother...it most likely ain't worth the money, time, and effort.

[SEMPERFI8387]

[i] ...and speaking of gain...the brackets that the bar itself attaches to has such a large space it looks like the bar won't be 100% tightly attached to the bracket which takes away the whole point of the ST Bar in the first place.

My opinion...if you have a 2004 or 2005....don't bother...it most likely ain't worth the money, time, and effort. [/B]

They do have a gap, but when you tighten the bolts, it will close up.
I do notice a difference though wiht the bar, and really, I think most people buy for the "shiny" factor, not the actual purpose these are made for.
Same goes for wai/cai, on a street car does it "really" make that much difference.
No, it's the "bling" factor !!!:lol:

[slowbird]

Like I mentioned in an early post...I installed the STB for all my older Sunbirds and I noticed a differance right away when going around bends.

I was hopping for similar results in this bar. I don't want to add useless shiny weight to my car...I want to shed it.

I politely disagree with the intake comment...I think most people buy them for the better throttle response and performance.

I noticed a differance when I installed my intake, and I'd buy a CAI just to see if it would drop my 1/4mile times.

With this bar I was just hoping it would help a bit when going around all those highway ramps I frequent.

[AeR0]

Originally posted by slowbird
With this bar I was just hoping it would help a bit when going around all those highway ramps I frequent.


and did it???

[slowbird]

On the sunbirds....they came with a STB from factory after 91...and those STB's helped.

This one I haven't tried cause when I installed it it was hitting the Alt so I didn't want to risk driving with it on.

Looking at the Brackets that the bar attaches to, and the fact that they bend to fit when you tighten everthing I doubt you'll feel any improvment....but I could be wrong.

[AeR0]

its funny now the guy who started the GB has not even posted in a long time eh?

maybe b/c he has some heat on him now? im not really sure??

but anyhow im not taking part in this group buy sorta seems like the bars are junk to me as i originally thought. im not buying bars for looks iwant them to do what they are supposed to do.

[slowbird]

Originally posted by AeR0
im not buying bars for looks... I want them to do what they are supposed to do.

Exactly.

...and fitting is one of those things they are supposed to do.

The bar itself is strong enough....strong enough that I can't bend it myself.

I wish I didn't get this bar...that's $80CDN I could used for Gas this week.

[AeR0]

for sure... is the rear one worth buying though? or would you just totally steer me away from this?

[slowbird]

I'd tell you to keep an eye out for someone who is selling theirs...and only if it's a decent STB bar and not this one...but like I said.

I could be wrong. On Saturday I'm gonna try and do a nice clean bend on the bar and try and get it to go around the alt terminal....maybe it will feel okay on the car. Never know.

[AeR0]

well be sure and let me know

thanks

[slowbird]

I'm sure I'll let everyone know. ;)

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by slowbird
Like I mentioned in an early post...I installed the STB for all my older Sunbirds and I noticed a differance right away when going around bends.

I was hopping for similar results in this bar. I don't want to add useless shiny weight to my car...I want to shed it.

I politely disagree with the intake comment...I think most people buy them for the better throttle response and performance.

I noticed a differance when I installed my intake, and I'd buy a CAI just to see if it would drop my 1/4mile times.

With this bar I was just hoping it would help a bit when going around all those highway ramps I frequent.

Matt,
If you have the mechanical ability to install a CAI, and you drag race, the minor adjusment to this thing is a piece of cake.
I really think you guys are taking this adjustment thing too serious.
As for the CAI, I very much doubt you see much change in 1/4 mi times/speed without other mods.

As for the "shiny" or "bling"mods, how many mods on this site do you see that actually make a car faster ?
I think you are the minority if that is your purpose.
LED's, carbon fiber, 18's, tint, mirrors, seats, etc...
It's all bling !!!!!!!!!! They do not make the car faster.:lol:

Looking at the Brackets that the bar attaches to, and the fact that they bend to fit when you tighten everthing I doubt you'll feel any improvment....but I could be wrong.

They bend to compress the nut/bolt, that's different than lateral compression (side to side).


Again, how many of you have actually wrenched on anything ?

Originally posted by AeR0
its funny now the guy who started the GB has not even posted in a long time eh?

maybe b/c he has some heat on him now? im not really sure??

but anyhow im not taking part in this group buy sorta seems like the bars are junk to me as i originally thought. im not buying bars for looks iwant them to do what they are supposed to do.

Why, he did not make me buy it !!
He just found a economical source.
Just go pay $150 elsewhere and be happy, or maybe not ?
$60 bucks :roll2: :roll2: :roll2: :roll2:
Junk ???? I really don't think you know what you are talking about.
You didn't even buy one, so based off one other persons opinion,
who hasn't even spent 5 minutes to fix it (sorry Matt)
you consider it junk. :roll2:

[DoubleOZeroGAse]

Aero, I think you're being a little too wary here. You're basing your concerns on a guy with a 2004 V6 car, you have a 1999 4-cylinder. I just looked again at my engine bay, and there will be no problem. The alternator is on the front of the block down low, the oil fill cap is forward and below the strut towers, and the brake booster reservoir is below the line as well. There should be absolutely no problem. The only thing I would look for is the brackets (if they're even the same as Joey's) rubbing the hood; even then it's a 5 minute fix with a grinder.

See for yourself:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/dl8604/Car%20Pics/11.jpg

If you're still concerned, my estimated delivery date is 7/24, I'll let you know.

[slowbird]

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
Matt,
If you have the mechanical ability to install a CAI, and you drag race, the minor adjusment to this thing is a piece of cake.
I really think you guys are taking this adjustment thing too serious.

I tried bending it by hand and I tried wacking it with multiple hammers and tried bending it and it didn't budge. I'm not gonna try it until I get into my buddies shop and we try something else. I don't want it bending too far up since I don't want to make it hit the hood.

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
As for the CAI, I very much doubt you see much change in 1/4 mi times/speed without other mods.

As for the "shiny" or "bling"mods, how many mods on this site do you see that actually make a car faster ?
I think you are the minority if that is your purpose.
LED's, carbon fiber, 18's, tint, mirrors, seats, etc...
It's all bling !!!!!!!!!! They do not make the car faster.:lol:


Uhhhhh...what about the PCM's, Cams, Heads, Tuning, Forced Induction. They all make the car faster...My car runs a 15.0 @ 91mph...When I got it my first run at the track was a 15.4 @ 88mph.
Just because you see nothing but appearance mods doesn't mean that's what everyone thinks.

...and good for you if you think a CAI is useless....

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
Again, how many of you have actually wrenched on anything ?


You need to stop saying this....it's insulting to the people that do work on cars. You're being an ass.

Originally posted by SEMPERFI8387
Junk ???? I really don't think you know what you are talking about.
You didn't even buy one, so based off one other persons opinion,
who hasn't even spent 5 minutes to fix it (sorry Matt)
you consider it junk. :roll2:

I have seen TONS of aftermarket STB's and this one takes the cake as the least refined. I can call it junk if I feel like it...it is MY opinion. Like it or lump it.
There's a reason why the others are more expensive....except the RSM one...RSM is just a giant rip off.

I told Aero that I could be wrong....he know it's my opinion...that is what he is ASKING FOR. If you don't like my opinion don't read it...but someone asked for it so that's what he's getting.

You fixed it easily....good for you...enjoy your STB. Have a nice day.

[99GrandAMSE]

Lets not get too far off the topic of 'bars' fellas :)

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
Lets not get too far off the topic of 'bars' fellas :)

OK!





... So a guy walks into a bar with a duck under his arm &...:D


No, seriously guys. There's a few in here that are so worrysome that they are clouding the real issues here.
When it comes down to it;
They are not cheap, I've seen a ton of bars also. The fact that they are adjustable make them better than 50% of them out there.

These were designed for another vehicle, you have to keep that in mind.

The front one for a '03.5 should really be an arched bar, That's the only real issue here & that's not the sellers' fault.

If you are not mechanically inclined enough to do a little filing or grinding (No offence) then you may as well pony up the dough to the tune of $100 a piece or better. If you do have a little mechanical aptitude then you're gonna save alot of cash! Hell, $60 for both??? I wish I got mine for that!

So all in all if you're unwilling to do a little tweaking to save yourself a good $10 or better then just bow out & forget about this deal.


As for "noticing" the bars on your car; I don't care if it's a Ferarri or a Grand Am, you'll never know they are on there untill you get into a little spirited driving & by that I mean pushing the car a bit in the turns. That's when the suspension loads from side to side & that's where a stb comes into play.

EDIT: forgot to mention; I'm not so sure bending them yourselves is a good idea. I believe if I were a '03.5+ owner I would contact Drivingear & inquire as to the avaiability of the arched bar. They have them, or atleast they did back when I bought my bar from them.

[99GrandAMSE]

:bow: to Chris :)

[SEMPERFI8387]

Matt,
Calm down !! :peace:

I'm not knocking you or your abilities, or trying to start a flame battle here. :flaming:
I am only saying it seems like you guys are making this mod seem very hard and it's not. (I think)

No, I'm not being an ass :booty:, I only meant if you do any wrenching on your car, you can do this fix.

Yes I know CAI "can" help, but it still has the "bling" factor with the polished alum intake tube.

Okay I'm done :horse: :P

[slowbird]

Originally posted by JoeyK

EDIT: forgot to mention; I'm not so sure bending them yourselves is a good idea. I believe if I were a '03.5+ owner I would contact Drivingear & inquire as to the avaiability of the arched bar. They have them, or atleast they did back when I bought my bar from them.

I agree completely. I'd rather not have to bend the bar myself...I already contacted the company regarding my bar hitting the Alt and they have not responded.

My buddy and I are gonna try to carefully bend it....though since the bar is hollow I dunnoh about grinding or filling enough to clear the alt

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by slowbird


My buddy and I are gonna try to carefully bend it....though since the bar is hollow I dunnoh about grinding or filling enough to clear the alt

Oh no NO! Don't even think of grinding to clear the alt. You'll go through the bar & then it'll be useless.
Bending it slightly may be ok but I have a feeling that if bent too far it'd just weaken it.

[99GrandAMSE]

... if the bar is hollow and you can get either end 'open' (or both would be preferred) ... fill the bar with fine sand (or similar) and plug the ends before bending as this will (or should) make the bar retaining it's shape :) ... then, after it is bent, you can remove the sand :) ... might also be a great deal easier to bend the bar around an already existing large diameter arc such as a well crock or something ... good luck!! :)

[roksoc]

Originally posted by AeR0
its funny now the guy who started the GB has not even posted in a long time eh?

maybe b/c he has some heat on him now? im not really sure??

but anyhow im not taking part in this group buy sorta seems like the bars are junk to me as i originally thought. im not buying bars for looks iwant them to do what they are supposed to do.

I posted on the 19th what are you talking about dude?

[roksoc]

Dont bend your bars yet I just spoke to the seller and he is going to try to see if he can get arched bars that will clear the alt.

[SEMPERFI8387]

Originally posted by roksoc
Dont bend your bars yet I just spoke to the seller and he is going to try to see if he can get arched bars that will clear the alt.

Too late !!! :lol: :lol:

[slowbird]

Originally posted by roksoc
Dont bend your bars yet I just spoke to the seller and he is going to try to see if he can get arched bars that will clear the alt.

My bar is still un-bent....see what you can do.

[Bob March]

Yeah please let me know about those tower braces!

[b2089]

I don't think mine work. I put them on and my car isn't any faster? :)

Okay, on my car the alt is pretty close to the bar, but not too close I don't think. It's about half an inch away and slightly above, so if the alt moves I think it would go under, but it shouldn't move that much anyway.

The rear bar was a REAL pain because I didn't know the trick. I was trying to put the bar in as a whole. Instead put the brackets on first then put the bar into the brackets. The angle seems a hair off but it works fine when you do it the second way. I took a picture of it with clothes hanging on the bar for a gag photo, I'll have to get that developled for my car domain site. the bolts, for those with trouble decoding the picture posted, was 8mm*1.25 and the bar sat nicely on the washer thingy and even sank down on the factory bolt head to sort of level itself. It isn't perfect, but it's close enough.

A question, these go across the body but don't touch the strut itself. Would it be better to make a part to go the strut bolt in the center?

Also do those spray paint can lids in the trunk over the tower serve a purpose?

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by b2089
A question, these go across the body but don't touch the strut itself. Would it be better to make a part to go the strut bolt in the center?

Also do those spray paint can lids in the trunk over the tower serve a purpose?

I've never seen one that actually went from strut to strut. They all go from the 3 bolts in the front on each side, and 2 bolts on the back from each side. Its pretty much reinforcement for the body, so it doesn't twist and tweak as much.

Are you talking about the little black rubber pieces on the back? I've never seen them before on any other car, and mine actually only had one on the driver's side. I took it off and trashed it. I really doubt it does anything. Probably just a dust cover or something that wasn't needed - it is GM, afterall! :lol:

[b2089]

Also, should I tighten the bar? I found that on the front I could turn the bar to tigthen it, but I didn't because it should have been the correct length. to go into the brackets. Now I'm wondering if it needs to be snugged up to hold properly. The rear bar wouldn't tighten if it needed to because it's in a bind slightly, the angles off a degree or so a has been previously mentioned.

I did soe moderate cornering and really I didn't notice a difference, but I don't push it hard enough to really need them anyway. I just got them because the price is good and anything that increases chasis strength is good for longevity of the car.

[prototypepacifi]

Yes, when you put the bar on turn it to tighten it as much as you can. Just make sure you're tightening it and not loosening it! :P Then just tighten the nuts next to the bar so it doesn't move. I couldn't move my back one either because of the angle problem, but it should be tight enough.

[roksoc]

yup if you're bar is loose and flopping aroudn it isnt doing anything.

[slowbird]

A friend and I spent about 30minutes bending the bar around the Alt wire.

Took a few hard whacks with a hammer, and the Rubber Wire boot just brushes against the bar ever so slightly with heavy engine twist.

The brackets and the bar still have alot of flex so I dunnoh how effective these bars will be....I'll get a better feel on my way home tonight.

[RedGTZ]

Originally posted by slowbird
A friend and I spent about 30minutes bending the bar around the Alt wire.

Took a few hard whacks with a hammer, and the Rubber Wire boot just brushes against the bar ever so slightly with heavy engine twist.

The brackets and the bar still have alot of flex so I dunnoh how effective these bars will be....I'll get a better feel on my way home tonight.

you always get what you pay for...

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by RedGTZ
you always get what you pay for...

Your $175 strut bar will do no better. Thier problem lies in the fact that they are bending the bar when they should have an arched bar to clear thier alternator.
It seems to me if you're gonna bend that bar guys, you're just taking away from the rigity of the setup & will pretty much make it uselesss.:(

[RedGTZ]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Your $175 strut bar will do no better. Thier problem lies in the fact that they are bending the bar when they should have an arched bar to clear thier alternator.
It seems to me if you're gonna bend that bar guys, you're just taking away from the rigity of the setup & will pretty much make it uselesss.:(

Our strut bars have been installed on all GA engines combos and clears perfectly cause the ends plates and center parts are bend to allow it. 3/8 inch thick end plates and 1/2 inch thick billet aluminum wont bend back after fabrication.

I agree that a thin piece may loose rigidity after it's bend and may crack/break caused to stress in the material...

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by RedGTZ
Our strut bars have been installed on all GA engines combos and clears perfectly cause the ends plates and center parts are bend to allow it ;)

Exactly, they need an arched bar, as I said. They've got the wrong bar because the supplier was misinformed.
Is yours adjustable? How thick is the flat stock? 1/2"? (Bent flatstock should be pretty thick if you're going to go with aluminum)
But the biggest thing is what does yours cost? $175 right? There's better to be had out there at a lower cost. The ones I own are superior at a lower cost.

Mines 1&1/2 solid tubular 6061 (aircraft grade) aluminum with adjustable endlinks. I have under $100 into both of them.

EDIT; sorry for being blunt. The reason for this project is because most of us cannot afford to buy high dollar items, especially if we can figure out a lower budget remedy of our own.


Nice car btw, your Baretta is very nice.:)

[99GrandAMSE]

Lets not get into a debate as what bars are better, OK guys :( ... anyway, sorry for all the problem be experienced ... I only had a quick problem with my Next Level bars when I installed them 'years ago' but it was because I had the right and left brackets reversed ... once I changed them back, I had lots of room as you can see in the picture :)

[99GrandAMSE]

The rear ...

[99GrandAMSE]

... seriously though, the more I look at the 'chromed' type bars, the more they are growing on me ... I originally liked the 'blended in' look of my bars but now I think a more 'noticeable' look would be nicer :)

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
Lets not get into a debate as what bars are better, OK guys :( ... anyway, sorry for all the problem be experienced ... I only had a quick problem with my Next Level bars when I installed them 'years ago' but it was because I had the right and left brackets reversed ... once I changed them back, I had lots of room as you can see in the picture :)

Yeah, sorry Kelly, you're right.
I was going to paint mine black to blend in also but I decided to polish the aluminum instead, kinda glad I did.:)

[RedGTZ]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Exactly, they need an arched bar, as I said. They've got the wrong bar because the supplier was misinformed.
Is yours adjustable? How thick is the flat stock? 1/2"? (Bent flatstock should be pretty thick if you're going to go with aluminum)
But the biggest thing is what does yours cost? $175 right? There's better to be had out there at a lower cost. The ones I own are superior at a lower cost.

Mines 1&1/2 solid tubular 6061 (aircraft grade) aluminum with adjustable endlinks. I have under $100 into both of them.


Nice car btw, your Baretta is very nice.:)

I was modding my reply during your post yours :P

MRZ Performance strut bars are made out of 6061 T6 billet aluminum, 3/8 inch thick end plates and 1/2 inch thick center part, adjsutable for preload, all CNC machined and engraved, polished to Show Quality, Stainless Steel fasteners, customizable in almost any way. This is a unique eye cather piece in car shows but can also take any abuse from the most extreme racer.

Thanks for the comments on my car, I got to update that old Cardomain page :P the SC/IC is running now and pull pretty hard ;) cars has more stuff added to it here and there also...

You also got a nice GA! keep up the good work ;)

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by 99grandamse
... seriously though, the more I look at the 'chromed' type bars, the more they are growing on me ... I originally liked the 'blended in' look of my bars but now I think a more 'noticeable' look would be nicer :)

I was going to powdercoat mine Red like yours are, but after I installed them to see how the 'chromed' type would look I fell in love with it. It looks really good under the hood, and even makes a dirty engine look better! :P

I also agree with Joey. Most of us can't afford the high-dollar parts for our cars, which (for me, anyways) is why I argue so much about these bars. They're such a great deal for the price, and people don't understand it. I just don't see the point in spending $350+ for a pair of STBs when I just got these (which are amazing for the price!) for $60 shipped. I wish I could get some MRZ stuff, and plan to get some chrome caps sometime when I can afford it.

I took pics of my STBs today to show everyone how they fit, but the stupid camera I was using didn't actually save the pictures. I ordered my own digital camera tonight and it should be here by the end of the week. I'll post some pics up then.

Also; did anyone else cut the carpet around the rear bar? On mine it looked like it had already been cut, but it may have come that way. It just had a little cut to the outside (towards the tail light) of each strut tower about 2 inches long, and straight down. I just kinda cut the carpet from where that cut ended at the bottom over to the other side of the strut tower and straight up. It looks pretty good, IMO. Like I said, though, I'll get some pics up when I get my new camera. I'll need to clean my trunk out, too..its getting a bit full of old clothes and empty bottles of all sorts of liquids! :P

*edit* I almost forgot to add..my STB brackets came a bit roughed up out of the box..a few tiny scratches in them, but its still noticable. Would spray painting them help this, or would the paint wear off? How would powdercoating them be?

[DoubleOZeroGAse]

Mine came in today, they look great. Like Scott's, mine looked a little roughed up, but it doesn't concern me too much. I'm pretty sure the brackets rub the hood just a little bit so I'll grind maybe an 1/8th inch off them and maybe repaint the brackets too. I'll buy some washers and nuts while at work tomorrow and get the rear one on too. This was incredibly easy. And for Aero, go ahead and get them dude, there is nothing within 2 inches that could hit these things and they look great ;)

[prototypepacifi]

Originally posted by DoubleOZeroGAse
Mine came in today, they look great. Like Scott's, mine looked a little roughed up, but it doesn't concern me too much. I'm pretty sure the brackets rub the hood just a little bit so I'll grind maybe an 1/8th inch off them and maybe repaint the brackets too. I'll buy some washers and nuts while at work tomorrow and get the rear one on too. This was incredibly easy. And for Aero, go ahead and get them dude, there is nothing within 2 inches that could hit these things and they look great ;)

When you go to do the rear one put the brackets on first and tighten them down. Then put the bar in after the brackets are on. Reasons being: 1) mine went at a slight angle and it was the only way I could get it on, and 2) the nuts are a real PITA to tighten when the bar is on! :)

[DoubleOZeroGAse]

Thanks for the tip Scott, I installed them before I read your reply, but I did it that way anyway ;) This was rediculously easy, the only real pain was the tight spot that the rear strut towers are in, which you will encounter regardless of whose bars you buy. Thanks Roksoc for getting this started, and JoeyK for being the original guinea pig :)

[roksoc]

thanks daniel glad you liked the bars. joeyK you are the man I am glad most of you liked the bars and for those that didnt I am sorry but I didnt know of the problem.

[Vampyrate]

talked with bjorn about it, worked things out. he ordered the set, and i sent him money for the front. so ill update this when i get it in the mail.

and maybe ill actually take pics of my car once its installed (she is still a camera virgin)

[Vampyrate]

walk in after work... there's the box sitting by the garage door! thanks bj! got it installed in no time, just got back from a test spin and did exactly what i thought it would do!

[roksoc]

Originally posted by Vampyrate
walk in after work... there's the box sitting by the garage door! thanks bj! got it installed in no time, just got back from a test spin and did exactly what i thought it would do!

Is that a good thing?

[Vampyrate]

yes. i rarely get mail when im home from college.

[Bjornboy81]

glad to hear it man :)

I still have to install mine.

[ephiny526]

i know somewhere in this thread, someone asked to see the bar installed on a 2.4 engine. i have one such engine on a 2000, so here's my pic of it installed:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/decima526/IM000634.jpg

[Patchez]

I am in Canada as well. Pencil me in if Canadian shipping can be worked out.

[UncleMike]

Too late to order these?

Does anyone have any solid evidence of improvement, by the way? Something besides the typical, "Yeah, I think I noticed a difference!"

[slowbird]

UncleMike, these will not fit your car.

2003.5 + 3400 Grand Am will have issues with the STB hitting the Alternator.

MIne hits...I had to bang a large bend into the bar....that plus the bendable metals that the brackets are made from I'd say you should get one from RSM or whatever they are called now. (Z Spec?)

[TO2FST]

Posted by mistake

[UncleMike]

They don't fit models newer than 2003.5?

There was a mid-year change?

[JoeyK]

Just request an arched front bar & you'll be fine. I know the seller has them. It is where I got mine from.
If you get a straight front bar then yes, you run the risk of the alternator hitting it under heavy acceleration.
as to the person that asked if they make a difference; It depends on how you drive. Under most normal driving conditions no, you will not notice a difference. But then again, you won't with any bar, on any car. They are made to keep the chassis rigid @ the strut tower location under extreme load. So if you're pushing it fairly hard through some turns, then yes, you'll surely notice the diff. If you're just cruising up the street to the grocery store then you'll never know the bars are there.

[ramairgrandamgt]

redgtz , i am astill looking for the PROPER / CORRECT hardware so i can mount the MAP cover... last i heard you were still looking into it. sure would be nice to have this piece nicely installed....

REMEMBER my engine is a 2000 gagt ( 3.4 )... surely some other 3.4 onwer as bought one . what are they using ? , not the ungly factory rusty painted hardware ??

again too bad you did not make the cover to fit over the outside of the bracket, as mentioned before to you.

what new any new parts ?? like gas fuel door cover etc or floor pedals etc. i see the new ones by pfyc. etc etc troy

[RedGTZ]

We still had the wrong fastener Troy. Seems like GM used so fasteners made especially for them. We're working a getting the right one and as soon as we got the right thing, we are sending them to you. Sorry again on the delay. Some members used the OEM one until we will ship the replacement ones that are stainless steel. ;)

We are still working on a lot of new stuff but seems like the next thing for the Grand Am's will be the headunit flushmounts and HVAC billet knobs.

[FuriousG]

Is it too late to get in on the $60 deal? I've got a 2003 that I bought in May of '03 so I'm guessing I have the pre 2003.5 model. Anyway, I'm very interested in getting osmething that will help me handle all the curves here in Germany.

[ramairgrandamgt]

i think you would sell more faster by doing a gas door setup. as most folks already have things done with the havc knobs and such. alot want a gas door setup . but the mustang setup out there is too much work for most . with cutting and trimming there quarter panel in that area etc etc. and more notice of your product too.

[JoeyK]

Hell, I'd be interested in billet hvac knobs!

[ramairgrandamgt]

joeyk imagine how much better the fuel door would look on that car you show ????? you do not have to be in the car or look in to see it . and you have a lot done to the outside of the car too boot.

[JoeyK]

I've never been a big fan of billet fuel doors. I'd rather not accentuate a part I wish wasn't there. If it were feasible, I'd put the filler behind the lisence plate like some of the cars in the '70's:)

I bet it'd sell though if he were to make some.

[bballr4567]

Ok I found these on Ebay and they are $40 for both but they are charging freakin $35 for shipping. Thats outrageous.

[-grandamfan99-]

so if your like me and you take the almost full turn gettin on the highway at 45+ :P then youll notice... what? car stays straighter? i actually stay in the seat? if so are they still available for 60?

*edit* i like joey's idea...hmm food for thought

[amerpwr]

these still available?

[ramairgrandamgt]

hi REDGTZ.... i got mine well over a year ago or more and still never installed the stb bars or the stb covers. because i need to get the bottom and top sides of the 3 holes per side on the ends of front bar .
the edge of the holes just a wee bit beveled / counter sunk only because they are all uneven right now . and would show up even more the day i go to get the stb bars polished another job to do .

then i got to try and fool with the 3 stb bolts in inner fenders , move them enough that the billet stb caps / cover then will snap down into place.

just got to want to go and TRY to do the adjustments IF THE SUGGESTIONS i was given to make the caps fit works , i gather fooling with the adjustment of the 3 stb bolts will throw off my perfect alignment i have always had ???

and pay SOMEONE to polish the stb bars and counter sink the holes edges just smooth them out to be even around hole edges..

i wish i would have gotten you MRZ to polish them and that wee counter sinken , before you shipped. sucks going to shows with out these things installed. also your missing out on some big advertisement too boot. i go to a lot of shows and hang out with car clubs .

and that map cover with your ingrave logo not being on because of the bolts . sucks

yes i could use the factory bolts for now but then i would hve rust creatated. as mentioned too bad that cover did not fit over / on the outside of the factory map bracket. becuse that bracket covers up a good part of your polish map cover. your last post here were in 2006 . nothing new being made etc ????

[slowbird]

If anyone missed this group buy and wants the front and rear I'll sell them mine.

I don't use them.

[AeR0]

matt, how much do you want for them and did you modify your bars at all?


and why u selling them?

[slowbird]

$40 for both.

I didn't even take the rear one outta the box.

The front I banged an Indent so it would clear the Alt on my 04.

I covered the banged part with black electrical tape to cover the "Dings" in the bar.

PM me if ya want it.

[AeR0]

sent ya a pm matt.

[GatorGA]

Looks like "drivingear" is now "surewinproducts?" He's also using GAOC member pics to advertise his items. $30 + $35 shipping for both bars.