Weird brake noise

[Refuse Winst]

About a month after I bought my car (so about 2 1/12 months ago, roughly), I replaced the front brake pads. Had the rotors turned, etc.

Not too long after that I noticed a clicking or chirping sound coming from the front driver's wheel. It wasn't too loud or noticable... I was going to get some anti-squeek stuff for the brakes that I had read about on here before but just never really saw it as a huge priority.

Today, on my way to work I noticed a very loud sound coming from that same wheel... the only way I can describe it is, it was like "TSSSST TSSST TSSST" as the wheel went around. Drove it to work (not far... only about 3 miles or so), and as long as the wheel was turning, the noise kept going. Stepping on the brake did not make any change at all.... only when the car was stopped did the noise stop. The brakes worked properly, no problems with the car pulling to the side, the steering wheel jerking around, or anything like that... just the noise.

Got to work, took a quick look at the wheel and the suspension, and everything looked okay. After work I drove it home, and the sound would come and go. By the time I got home, it only seemed to be making that noise when I went over a bump or stepped on the brake, and would stop right after that, as in as I was stepping on the brake "TSST TSSST TSST", and when I let off, it stopped immediately.


SO... I'm going to take the wheel off tomorrow and see what I can find. I usually have my old man help me with this kind of thing, but he's out of town, so any suggestions of what it could be or what I should look for? The only thing I know of making noise like that would be the pad squealers... but I know the pads are still good, and in my experience, the squealers make noise, but the noise stops when you step on the brake... not the opposite. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Refuse Winst]

Ok, so I drove it to Wal Mart to pick up a couple things... on my way home the noise became constant again for about 2 miles. I started thinking that maybe the inside pad/caliper was sticking, which caused the pad to wear fast, and is now making the pad squealer go off when it sticks out. Went over some really rough railroad tracks, and the noise stopped for a minute after crossing them.... which reinforces my theory of the pad sticking (possibly the bumps rocked it loose and it retracted like it should, cause the squealer to lose contact with the rotor and making the noise go away). I felt the inside of the rotor, and sure enough.... it's got a bit of a groove in it.

I'm really dreading having to take that damn caliper off again to replace that pad... the lock-tite crap they put on those bolts makes it a major pain to get them off... escpecially if it's been rubbing, getting hot, and welding itself together. If I take the wheel off tomorrow and find that I'm right about the sticking caliper, I'll spray a healthy amount of PB Blast on there and let it work in for a day before attempting to loosen the bolts. In the meantime... does anyone know if spraying some silicone lubricant on that caliper will keep it from sticking? Or will I just have to wait until I take the damn thing off?

[4kQuad]

Sounds like your on the right track. Remember the thing you had to compress back into the caliper to get the new pads in. My guess is it is sticking. There is also a couple of bolts in there that need greased up when changing the pads. If they were not greased, they "could" be causing the problem.

another way to tell would be to drive the car a bit, park it, get out and put your hand down by the middle of the wheel. Feeling for heat. If the rotor is hot, that agin points to the caliper or bolts needing greased.

if it not getting hot, then I would start thinking wheel bearing. A quick test for that is to get the front wheel off the ground. Car safely blocked, grab the front tire and 12 and 6. Try to wiggle it pushing and pulling on the tire. It should not wiggle any more than a back tire. So not much.

[Refuse Winst]

They were greased, but yeah... it's definitely getting hot. I had to let it sit for a while before checking the back of the rotor to see if it was grooved.

One of them were sticking when I changed them before, but I can't remember if it was the driver or pass.

At this point the hardest part is going to be getting up early enough to check it out. I work afternoons... I'm totally not tired yet and it's nearly 4 AM. :P

[Refuse Winst]

Man, I don't know.... just had the caliper off, and the pads aren't worn at all. I couldn't check to see if the back one was retracting like it should because I didn't have another person to step on the brake. It seemed to me that the noise is being caused by those thin metal pieces on the caliper that are along the outside edge of the rotor (presumably to scrape rust off or something? Not sure). As I turned it around, those pieces were scraping along the outside edge of the rotor and making kind of a similar sound. I dunno, I can't figure it out... and it started pouring down rain so I put it all back together and said the hell with it. Guess I'll wait until my dad gets back in town and have him take a look.... or take it to a mechanic on payday, which I would really hate to do.

[d-burn]

would you describe the sound as a like "fluidy metal rubbing sound"? it's so hard to desribe sound. If so, i'm having the same problem on what sounds like my front pass. tire. Also don't suspect brakes because they were just replaced not too long ago, and pulling away cleanly when inspected.
Hope you find out what is wrong, because i might have the same thing with mine. Keep me posted.

[Refuse Winst]

Yeah, it is really hard to describe sound... I don't know what to say. It's definitely a metal-on-metal sound... higher pitched... it almost sounds like air leaking out of a small hole (it's not, though... after listening closer I could defintely tell it was metal-on-metal), so much that when it first happened I initially thought it was the tire leaking.

I need to take a closer look... it's not supposed to rain tomorrow, so I may take it off and try again then. As soon as I got the damn caliper off today it started raining again... hard. So I didn't really have time to spend on it. When I was checking it out, it really seemed like the sound was being made by those little thin metal pieces that go along the outside of the rotor. Does anyone know what those are for? If I take it off tomorrow I'll take a pic, because people probably don't know what the hell I'm talking about :P. When I turned the wheel by hand, there was definitely a noise coming from those rubbing on the caliper, I'm just nout sure if it's the same noise or not. I also noticed today that the noise only happens when going forward. I backed into my parking space at work... no sound. Pulled forward again, and it was there... reverse a few feet... no sound.

If and when I do find out what it is, I'll post it here. It could very well be the wheel bearings, but for some reason I really don't think that's it.... I had that happen on another car before, and this seems different.

[d-burn]

I'm going to try it in reverse and see if it makes the noise on mine.
I think i know what you are talking about with the thin metal peice on the rotors. As in the thin strip that goes around the outer edge?

[d-burn]

I'm going to try it in reverse and see if it makes the noise on mine.
I think i know what you are talking about with the thin metal peice on the rotors. As in the thin strip that goes around the outer edge?

[Refuse Winst]

Yeah... okay, I was just looking in my Haynes manual to see what that is. It dosen't show the two that hang over the edge on the front and back of the caliper and go along the edge of the rotor, but it shows the piece in the ceter of the caliper which is the same kind of metal, and says it's the "Anti-rattle spring". Ok, here's some logic for you, I'm thinking maybe those pieces I'm talking about are part of the "Anti-rattle spring" also... but whatever, there's a rattle coming from my brakes, and it's coming from around where something called an "Anti-rattle spring" is located... go figure.

I only have one problem.... the only mention of this spring in the Haynes manual is a picture in a step of changing the pads, and it says "Check the condition of the anti-rattle spring and replace if needed." Yeah, that's freakin' great, but what does it do? How does it "anti-rattle"? How can I check it to see what "condition" it's in? How do I go about replacing it? Can anyone help please? I think I may be on to something here, but a little explanation would help. A search on the forums for "Anti-Rattle spring" or "Anti rattle spring" produces no results.... if this "spring" (or the failure of said spring to function properly) can cause such a loud rattling type of noise, how could it be that it has never been mentioned on the forums? Hmmmm....

edit; by the way, I also noticed today that all of my rotors are hot after driving. Not just the two front ones, but both back ones too... the one I'm having trouble with dosen't seem to be any hotter than the rest of them.

[d-burn]

i wish i had some way of recording the sound to see if anyone recognized what it might be.
If i take it to a shop to get a problem diagnosed, do they charge me for that?

[2K SE]

Did you replace or remove and replace the anti rattle clips? I remember they kind of "snap" into place. And there really isn't much clearance in there. At first I was gonna say the clips do keep it from rattling. But you are talking about a rubbing sound. Anyway, if they are contacting the rotor I think that could cause the rubbing noise. Good luck.

[Refuse Winst]

No, I didn't do anything with them when I did my brake work. My theory is that the spring/clip thing is loose or something and has started rubbing on the rotor as is goes around. Probably one of the ends that's angled, which would explain why it dosen't do it in reverse.


I'm going to try to fix it tomorrow... couple questions. Would it matter if I just removed that thing all together? If I need to replace it, would Autozone or someplace like that have it, or do I need to get it from the dealer?

[levey]

What kind of replacement pads did you use. I'll explain why I'm asking. If they were Monroes....read on. If they anything but the generic kind that came on the car....read on.
Now...I didn't read the entire thread. So pay no attention if I missed anything. Plus...I'm sure some people are gonna disagree with what I'm saying.

My brakes used to make the same kinda noise. However. It only started after I changed the brake pads. Here's the story. I thought my pads were shot...but they weren't. It was something else.
Anyway. There was plenty of pad left on my old set, but I had just bought the more expensive ones (Monroe) with the extended warranty, so I decided to use them. I put my old pads away..incase I needed them.
A few days/weeks latter... I started noticing this strange noise. Mostly while passing close to walls or anything that could reflect the noise back at me.
I thought I had the wrong pads, so I switched back to the generic brand that was on there. Guess what? No more noise.
A few days latter I was told that anything but the generic brand would make weird noises on SOME Grand Ams.

True story.

[TheTrader]

I have this EXACT noise... I know what your are describing exactely, and I have thought all the same things... I have had the brakes checked multiple times by myself and 2 mechanics, nothing is wrong.... its just a loose rattle... like you said, maby a anti-rattle clip, or something along those lines, but nothing physically wrong with the brakes... I had them all checked out, and was going to take them appart to put in some clips that Shaun sent me from PEI (thanks man!) but I just didnt have the time... my brother is a mechanic, so he checked it over really good, said they are fine!

I am going to said untill the rotors or pads or both are trashed, then replace everything and make sure its done right !

-Daniel

[Refuse Winst]

Okay everyone... problem fixed.

All I had to do was take the wheel off, and at the back of the caliper (as in the part that faces the back of the car), there's a small metal clip. I just stuck a screwdiver in front of that clip and bent it back towards the caliper. What this does, is bends back the metal piece on the inside of the caliper that rests close to the rotor. Most likely, a piece of rust or a stone got caught on the piece and bent it in, towards the rotor, and was causing it to rub against the rotor, making the high metallic rubbing sound I was getting. The clip is angled towards the rotor, also.... which is why putting it in revers stopped the noise... the clip works with the angle of the rotor instead of against it in reverse.

I took the caliper off to do this, but as far as I can tell, if you have the same problem you should be able to fix it without removing the caliper itself.

Any questions, feel free... I'm just glad I finally got rid of that noise. At this point it's not clicking, chirping, rattling, rubbing or anything else.... sounds better than ever.

[levey]

Congrats man.

[d-burn]

Hey. Do you have a picture of this peice and its location on the caliper by any chance. I think i might have the same problem, although mine makes the rubbing metal sound in reverse too, however it is not as loud when in reverse.

[Refuse Winst]

Okay, just went out to grab a pic. In doing so, I see that you may even be able to fix this without even removing the wheel. But again, I took the caliper off and actually bent the inside part back too, so I'm not sure. If anyone has success by just bending back the outside part, please say so.

The part circled in green is the outside part of the piece of metal, which goes inside, along the edge of the caliper towards the rotor, between the caliper and the bracket. Remember, if you're trying to do it just by bending back the piece that is visible without removing the caliper, you want to bend it back, towards the caliper itself and, in turn, away from the rotor on the inside.

There is also the same piece along the other side of the caliper, though that one is angled forward (the direction the rotor would normally turn), so is probably less likely to be problematic.

Sorry if I'm being confusing here... it's hard for me to really explain without taking the caliper apart again and getting pictures of the inside (hidden) parts. Wish I would have remembered to do so when I had it off :(

[Refuse Winst]

Ok, I've done an extremely high-tech 3D X-ray rendering of the clip and caliper :P.

I don't know if this will actually help or not, so if it confuses you further, just ignore it.

Picture the blue part as the rotor, the green part is the clip, and the red is where the clip is meeting the rotor. As the green arrows show (in all their greatness), bending that metal back towards the caliper on top causes the bottom part (closer to the rotor) to move away from the rotor itself, and making a gap where the clip is coming in contact with the rotor.

I know, it's pretty amazing work, but here...

[4kQuad]

Great job figuring that one out. Feels good don't it.

[Refuse Winst]

Yes, it definitely does.... as does having a car that's not making obnoxious noises :P

I actually like working on cars (just not in the sun with a 98 degree heat index :P)... though I wouldn't claim to be a master mechanic by any means.