What's LEGAL and what's ILLEGAL ??

[YepYep]

Recently I was blocked by an one-man police cruiser, and had a ticket about I installed a "somke" plate cover with no points but $110 fine. And I told the police I bought it from Can-Tie. He said things in Can-Tie don't means they are legal. faint......

That's so un-lucky in the weeked I am going out to fishing in a good morning... Because I can find there is more than a half of the cars running on the road with one or two (I only installed it on the front plate. but lots of ppl install this thing on the front and the rear ) plate-cover installed. and on many old car, the plate is dirty or damaged or the legal "clear" type plate cover is turned yellow or fogged... anyway, cant see the numbers at all... Why the police only give me ticket about my very clear and cleaned everyday but "smoke" color plate cover?!

And the policeman said my headlight cover is illegal too, and asked me to remove them as well but no ticket for them. Maybe it's in the very sunny morning, he thought he cant win the case on it?

Right now, I remove my plate cover and my headlight cover... my ride turned back into its old look the day I brought it back home... oh... fortunately the police looks not care about the stickers you put on your car...
==========
I have a great neon light ... but i seldom tune it on....
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I want to paint 2 orange color strips from the hood to the trunk... but I hold the project now....
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I want to added 2 powerful yellow color fog-light in the front. But hold it again, not only I don't find the perfect one for me but also I heard that more than 6 lights on the front is illgal.
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my friend want to lower his ride... I told him don't do that too much, cus there is a ligal ride height limit ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's this world?! What things can we do to our car??

[The Artist]

I have no idea what the lawas are in canada, but here in NY, its just like cali... everything is "illegal"

[Big Joe]

yeah you can have anything on the plate in ny, not even the clear ones. But cops dont really bust chops around here for that stuff.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Sweet98AEDGA
I have no idea what the lawas are in canada, but here in NY, its just like cali... everything is "illegal"

Transportation (and therefore roads and cars, drivers and licensing, etc.) falls under provincial jurisdiction, in Canada.

In Ontario, the HTA is quite vague and retarded about many things.

For things such as license plate covers and window tint there is no codified law on it--the law just leaves it up to "officer discretion". It's ridiculous IMO but that's the way it is. In other words if the officer wants to give you a ticket for it, he/she can.

And they do care about the stickers and other appearance mods on your car, trust me. If you have stickers, rims, tint, and other appearance and "performance" mods visible on your car, that's when they try to give you tickets for whatever they can find. It's because cops have to graduate from Grade 2 and no higher to be cops, so they do whatever they feel like when they can.

I can guarantee you if some 60-80 year old, old dude has blue plate covers on his otherwise stock looking car, the police won't give a damn. But when they see a young person (a "punk" in their second-grade-education opinion) with a modded up car, rims, exhaust etc., they'll nail you for whatever they can. If that happens to involve using their "discretion" to nail you for a license plate cover that's what they'll do.

Completely lame and retarded, especially considering with some plate covers (like the yellow tinted ones) you can actually prove that the plate is actually easier to read in all lighting conditions. But they'll still BS you for it if they want and give you a lame-ass ticket.

I see plates rusted and worn so bad (from not ever having a plate cover because the vehicle owner didn't give a damn) that you can barely make out the plate. Those people never get a ticket. But the person that puts a cover on their plate, keeps it nice and clean and way more visible than 80% of other cars out there, is the one that gets the ticket. :roll2:

IMO officer discretion should be something completely eliminated from the HTA. Moron cops just do whatever they want because they can.

As for the actual ticket, it's not a moving violation so there's no demerit points. Don't pay it--go see the JP or go to court with it. There's lots of ways to get the ticket reduced to like $20 or even $0. Stupid regulatory offences and the police that "enforce" them :roll2:

[Brandon]

if its illegal, then its illegal. sounds like the cop was doing his job, and it sounds like it could of been worse.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Brandon
if its illegal, then its illegal. sounds like the cop was doing his job, and it sounds like it could of been worse.

Did you miss what I said? Officer discretion makes it "illegal" and nothing else. There is no codified law that says you can't have a plate cover that is tinted, blue, yellow, etc. It's simply the officer saying so that makes it illegal. So *no* it isn't "illegal, then it's illegal", cop was "doing his job" and other such total BS...

Why should the cop get to decide that it's illegal for one person and not for another (and include their immature and unwarranted biases in the process of doing so)??? Just because? Yeah great reasoning for it to be "illegal". :roll2: It's a damn plate cover, it's see through and doesn't make the plate any less visible at all. It's dirt and corrosion that usually makes a plate less visible, and those things can be found whether you have a plate cover or not and whether it's tinted or not.

Believe me, when it comes to giving tickets for tint and plate covers ON police pick and choose who they want to give out tickets to. Luckily they are worthless regulatory offences, not even backed by the fear of demerit points (since they aren't moving violations) and can be dealt with as such (meaning getting the ticket thrown out or the fine reduced to zero, like it should be).

[Big Joe]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97

It's a damn plate cover, it's see through and doesn't make the plate any less visible at all.



Plate covers make it easier to have fake plates. People could tape a photocopy of a plate to the inside of the platecover then put it on, commit a crime, then take the plate cover off. I know its kinda dumb but that is the reasoning behind the law, around here at least. I mean its more in depth then that but you get the point. I also here that plate cover makes it hard for a camera to read your plate if you run a red light at one of those intersections with cameras.

[SilverBane]

Originally posted by Big Joe
Plate covers make it easier to have fake plates. People could tape a photocopy of a plate to the inside of the platecover then put it on, commit a crime, then take the plate cover off. I know its kinda dumb but that is the reasoning behind the law, around here at least. I mean its more in depth then that but you get the point. I also here that plate cover makes it hard for a camera to read your plate if you run a red light at one of those intersections with cameras.

The one on my car is reflective in high light, no photo radar for me...

[YepYep]

Originally posted by Big Joe
Plate covers make it easier to have fake plates. People could tape a photocopy of a plate to the inside of the platecover then put it on, commit a crime, then take the plate cover off. I know its kinda dumb but that is the reasoning behind the law, around here at least. I mean its more in depth then that but you get the point. I also here that plate cover makes it hard for a camera to read your plate if you run a red light at one of those intersections with cameras.

If so, after I pulled over, the officer did check my licence and the ownership paper... why still give me the ticket?!

and if because of that, they should check all cars on the road...

I agree with Mantagreen97... and my friend with me that day said usually there were 2 cops in the car, they wont care about such "illegal" things. Maybe just because that grade-2 young cop didn't like the cool look of my car... that's all...

[YepYep]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
As for the actual ticket, it's not a moving violation so there's no demerit points. Don't pay it--go see the JP or go to court with it. There's lots of ways to get the ticket reduced to like $20 or even $0. Stupid regulatory offences and the police that "enforce" them :roll2: [/B]

Going to court is not a easy thing either... not means I don't have experience about that. Because you need to work, I need to work. So, I need to ask for a leave to do that.

I still remember last time when I took my wife home in the lunch break. (Holiday, almost no bus at all, she only need to work for half day, but I need to go to work all day long. So I picked her up from her office and back home then I went back to work) A nice police officer gave me two tickets. One is speeding, the other one is I didn't bring the licence with me. And then I visited the court 4 times until I finaly could show my licence to the court to cancel the ticket about no licence driving. First time, still long weekend, no service. Second time, I went too early, the record didn't file yet. The third time, "oh, unfortunately no quick service this week. Do you want to have it filed and make an appointment 6 months later?! "... ...

So, having night shift could be a good thing... after work , you can go to have a nice and comfy breakfast then go to the court...

[Gimli]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
Transportation (and therefore roads and cars, drivers and licensing, etc.) falls under provincial jurisdiction, in Canada.

In Ontario, the HTA is quite vague and retarded about many things.

For things such as license plate covers and window tint there is no codified law on it--the law just leaves it up to "officer discretion". It's ridiculous IMO but that's the way it is. In other words if the officer wants to give you a ticket for it, he/she can.

Not quite. Articles 12 and 13 of the Highway Traffic Act make it very clear that any modification or obstruction of a license plate (called "number plate" for the purpose of the act) is ilegal. Smoked covers are obstructions.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm

Violations as to number plates

12. (1) Every person who,

(a) defaces or alters any number plate, evidence of validation or permit;

(b) uses or permits the use of a defaced or altered number plate, evidence of validation or permit;

(c) without the authority of the permit holder, removes a number plate from a motor vehicle or trailer;

(d) uses or permits the use of a number plate upon a vehicle other than a number plate authorized for use on that vehicle;

(e) uses or permits the use of evidence of validation upon a number plate displayed on a motor vehicle other than evidence of validation furnished by the Ministry in respect of that motor vehicle; or

(f) uses or permits the use of a number plate or evidence of validation other than in accordance with this Act and the regulations,

is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or to both, and in addition the person’s licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 12 (1).


Number plates, further violations

No other numbers to be exposed

13. (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).

Number plate to be kept clean

(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).

Obstruction prohibited

(3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a photo-radar system. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5).

Same

(3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).

Same

(3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).

Offence

(4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).





Originally posted by MantaGreen97
It's a damn plate cover, it's see through and doesn't make the plate any less visible at all..

So, if it doesn't modify the appearance of the license plate in any way, why use one at all?

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Gimli
Not quite. Articles 12 and 13 of the Highway Traffic Act make it very clear that any modification or obstruction of a license plate (called "number plate" for the purpose of the act) is ilegal. Smoked covers are obstructions.

It's still officer discretion. Where does it specifically say a plate cover is illegal? It doesn't. It simply talks about obstructions. The "obstruction" is completely up to the officer to decide. A smoked cover creates no real obstruction. Yes a small amount of light is blocked but it isn't like the cover is dark tinted or anything it's just smoked. Plate covers specifically simply aren't in the statute.

And you just reinforced my point really. Because obstructions include dirt as well as a plate that is corroded or damaged so you can't read it well. And my point is that there are dirty and/or corroded plates out there that police will almost never give tickets for; yet plate covers where the plate is nice and clean and clearly visible, they'll give tickets for that.

Let's not forget the MTO themselves used to sell tinted covers (both smoked and blue) until stupid a$$ officers started handing out tickets for them and the MTO stopped doing that and now only sells clear ones.

And dirt is a fine reason to give a ticket, IMO. It is indeed a real obscuring medium. As are snow-covered plates that people never bother to clean off in winter. If it's either a cover or a bare plate that is dirty or snow-covered, etc. then fine I agree with them giving tickets for that. But a SEE-THROUGH cover with light tinting that is CLEAN??? Get real. Cops just have nothing better to do with their time. And as I said above, often it's because they can't give you a ticket for one thing they'll just find (read: INVENT) something they can give you a ticket for. Or they give you a ticket for one thing like speeding and don't like you for whatever reasons and then try to give you more tickets. It's total BS.

Originally posted by Gimli
So, if it doesn't modify the appearance of the license plate in any way, why use one at all?

You're joking right??? The whole purpose of the cover is to keep the plate nice and clean and new looking and, of course, clearly visible. I've had my plates for nearly 9 years now and they still look like new thanks to the plate covers. I've had other vehicles in my family that never had plate covers and the plates looked pretty bad after maybe 5 or 6 years. The point is with those [non-covered] plates I'd never have gotten a ticket, but with clean covers and clean plates that are easier to read I risk getting a ticket from Officer Retard. :roll2:

Whatever. Though I've been threatened with tickets for my plate covers I've never gotten one and you can be sure that if I do get one that worthless regulatory fine is going to get either tossed or reduced to nothing. And then I'll go throw it in the retarded cops face for wasting everyone's time and being a worthless part of society.

[Gimli]

The law also doesn't say that you can't go 23 km/h above the speed limit either. It just says you can't go above it. Yet, it's still illegal to go 23 km/h above the speed limit, even though not everyone going exactly 23 km/h or even 12 or 54 get ticketed for it.


Originally posted by MantaGreen97
You're joking right??? The whole purpose of the cover is to keep the plate nice and clean and new looking and, of course, clearly visible. I've had my plates for nearly 9 years now and they still look like new thanks to the plate covers. I've had other vehicles in my family that never had plate covers and the plates looked pretty bad after maybe 5 or 6 years. The point is with those [non-covered] plates I'd never have gotten a ticket, but with clean covers and clean plates that are easier to read I risk getting a ticket from Officer Retard. :roll2:

If that's the sole purpose of the cover you don't need it to be tinted then, a clear one does exactly the same, and it's legal.



With that attitude of yours I too would try and find everything I could to give you a ticket for if I was a cop.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Gimli
The law also doesn't say that you can't go 23 km/h above the speed limit either. It just says you can't go above it. Yet, it's still illegal to go 23 km/h above the speed limit, even though not everyone going exactly 23 km/h or even 12 or 54 get ticketed for it.
Now you're comparing apples to oranges and in completely irrelevant fashion. That isn't the same at all. Any police officer can tell you any speed in excess of the speed limit is speeding. It's both objective and quantitative. Sure you might not get a ticket for 23 over by one cop and get a ticket for that much by another cop; but, both are still speeding. Even if a cop doesn't give you a ticket for it, anyone with half a brain can still tell you it's technically speeding.

With plate covers that's not the case at all. They are cited as an obscuring medium to the plate which is subjective and all up to what that officer thinks; and, more importantly, what that officer thinks of you because let's face it that's what I'm talking about here. Not only is it subjective but it's far too open to bias, IMO.

What I'm talking about is the law as it pertains to plate covers. Certainly tickets are given out by officer discretion for any of these offences but that's not what I'm getting at. It's officers deciding to give useless tickets which are also baseless (i.e. the covers don't obscure anything unless maybe you have some serious eye problems which are your own problems, lol.)

Why not codify exactly what it is about plate covers that is or is not illegal? Why? Well it's simple it's so you can give jack&#@ cops more authority to do whatever they like and they can already do way too much of that, IMO. I would think perhaps through common law plate covers may have been covered (lol pun not intended)... So why waste time and money putting them in the HTA? Certainly we can't do that! Not when we can milk people for money wherever possible (let's face it, many regulatory offences are simply a government cash-cow).

I'm nearly certain even if there exists such a precedent regarding plate covers has not been based on anything real. And by real I mean have we done optical tests on how these covers of any variety really obscure the visibility of the plate? And how might a covered plate, however tinted, hold up against an uncovered plate after several years in the elements? Is that not important too? No all that's important is the government gets their $$$ no matter how they do it.

So yes, let's get real, there's not going to be any tests like that. It's just going to be some uneducated cop saying "yeah it's an 'illegal' cover, 'cause it 'obscures' the plate--here's your ticket". Meanwhile it obscures nothing, especially when clean and in comparison to a dirty plate that is far more obscured but never gets a second look.

At least with speeding we can say it was indeed speeding. But with an "obscuring" plate cover we can look at our plates see them quite clearly and scratch our heads over the ticket. The law isn't supposed to make us do that.

Here's the definition of obscure:
1 a : DARK, DIM b : shrouded in or hidden by darkness c : not clearly seen or easily distinguished : FAINT <obscure markings>
2 : not readily understood or clearly expressed; also : MYSTERIOUS

I'm sorry but a none of a blue, yellow, smoked or clear cover does that. Not when clean. None shrouds or hides the number by "darkness".

People shouldn't simply fall back while stupid regulatory laws enable police officers to do what they want and make something illegal that isn't even covered by the law. They're essentially changing the definition of a word at their say so! At the say so of some overpaid, undereducated jerk that either can't understand ENGLISH or thinks he/she can change it at their will? Perhaps everyone else wants to say that's fine, but no sir not me.

It's all too often that people will stand by and say such nonsense as "oh it's illegal, the cop said so" etc. etc. Sorry, I'm not an automoton that follows whatever supposed authority figures say just because they say it.

I'm not going to standby while some loser that finished grade 2 and no higher, changes the English language while I have to pay for it. No thanks, I actually went to school I actually know what obscure means I'm not going to let someone else change that definition because they have a badge, a gun and a nightstick. Maybe that could fly in China or something but not here.

Should we let police officers decide that you're "stealing" something simply because they don't like you? Of course not! So why can they say something obscures the plate when it does not in any reasonable sense of obscurement?

The law should be protecting people that try to keep their plates clean and new, not force them to pay money because of the say so of some jerk that doesn't like you.


Originally posted by Gimli
If that's the sole purpose of the cover you don't need it to be tinted then, a clear one does exactly the same, and it's legal.
It's not the sole purpose, it's the main purpose. Looks is another reason. I think my car looks better with colour tinted plates. My plate is always clean and readable, NEVER obscured (unless you use some cop's lame definition of the word), am I killing anyone by doing this? Not at all.

Originally posted by Gimli
With that attitude of yours I too would try and find everything I could to give you a ticket for if I was a cop.
What does that even mean? Because I don't agree with police officers changing definitions of words they should try to "find everying" they could give me a ticket for??? Whatever.

First of all that attitude is pretty poor IMO. It's pretty poor for any citizen of a free and democratic country such as ours. One where laws are enacted through democratic means and where the constitution is supreme, not some police officer. That attitude of thinking questioning the enforcement of laws by police, is undesireable--that's the bad attitude...

With my "attitude", I say that any responsible person should be questioning the matter of police changing word definitions because that is the kind of thing that ends up with all the rights and freedoms we enjoy being slowly eroded and taken over by nothing more than mere thugs with a badge. We cannot legitimise every action of a police officer simply because they are police.

With your attitude, you're essentially saying that a police officer should give [more] tickets to someone just because they personally do not like that person's attitude? YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING. That right there is something seriously wrong. But yes I have an "attitude" that should get me more tickets for some reason... :roll2: Whatever.

Second of all, let them give me tickets for whatever they want. It isn't going to change my so called "attitude" of being responsible and realising there are things that police should not be doing (but they do anyway), and questioning them on it.

Even if it were demonstrably shown that by statute or precendent, plate covers were illegal, I would STILL question the law. Whether I would be right in the eyes of the law or not is not the point. The point is that I can actually THINK and state what I think, and I should be able to do that without fear of being put in jail, given more tickets, etc...

But go ahead slap on the regulatory offences--tint, plate covers, that gum I "littered" out the window, etc. Because let's see how far those tickets go on the other side of the law. You know the one where there's actually educated people*? The court system? Even if there the police officer is agreed with, let's be honest it's a regulatory offence--it isn't hard to get them reduced to nothing despite a technical "conviction". Speeding of course excepted (because of demerit points) but court is still a game and playing it properly and/or getting lucky can still mitigate those.

*It's not to say that there aren't intelligent cops, it's just that the ones that give tickets for plate covers that are clean and have clearly visible, UNobstructed license plates, clearly aren't.

[dangerranger]

Wow, you make Canadian cops sound like a bunch of jerks. And they're completly uneducated? More and more departments around here are started to require two years of college. I think officer discretion is a good thing, but it is usually the other way around, the officer choosing not to enforce the law, i.e.: speeding.

[Gimli]

Well, then I guess your uneducated definition of whole means the same as main then. Inacurately.


Originally posted by MantaGreen97
The whole purpose of the cover is to keep the plate nice and clean and new looking and, of course, clearly visible.

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
It's not the sole purpose, it's the main purpose.

whole (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whole)
adj.

1. Containing all components; complete: a whole wardrobe for the tropics.
2. Not divided or disjoined; in one unit: a whole loaf.
3. Constituting the full amount, extent, or duration: The baby cried the whole trip home.
4.
1. Not wounded, injured, or impaired; sound or unhurt: Many escaped the fire frightened but whole.
2. Having been restored; healed: After the treatment he felt whole.
5. Having the same parents: a whole sister.

main (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/main)
adj.

1. Most important; principal. See Synonyms at chief.
2. Exerted to the utmost; sheer: by main strength.
3. Nautical. Connected to or located near the mainmast: a main skysail.
4. Grammar. Of, relating to, or being the principal clause or verb of a complex sentence.
5. Obsolete. Of or relating to a continuous area or stretch, as of land or water.



Clearly it's not just the police officers who are uneducated and who have no idea what words really mean. I, for one, will trust their judgement because, so far, it's exactly the same as mine and all I can see here is is an uneducated law breaker trying to re-define words to justify his law breaking.

And yes, coloured plate covers make the plate look dark and dim (which is verbatim the first definition you cited), by reducing their contrast.

[Petorius]

Stop making these long posts! People are more likely to read the ones that are short, sweet and to the point.

[Gimli]

Originally posted by Petorius
Stop making these long posts! People are more likely to read the ones that are short, sweet and to the point.

Gee, thanks mom.

[Pontius]

Personally, I don't use a plate cover. Not because I don't want to, just because I don't feel the need to make my car look any more "cool" looking with a tiny piece of plastic tinted or clear. Yeah, they might protect the plate, but does it really take that much work to just get out of your car, house, ect. with a wet or even dry rag to wipe the plate off? I understand where you're coming from in terms of rust and the like, in which case a clear one WOULD come in handy. So I agree partially with your argument about clear ones. But tinted ones are exactly what they say they are: tinted. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of tinting something, 9 times out of 10, to make something a different color and therefore darker? Even a yellow tinted plate is going to be harder to read than a clear one, and a smoked one even harder still. I would trust the officer in that case, though I may still take it to court for a fine of $100+ just because that's far too much for a minor offense. Especially with gas prices the way they are today. Plus, I happen to be one of those "young punks" someone mentioned earlier...long hair, loud music, ect. But I can guarantee that as long as you aren't a complete ******* to an officer, most of them are just going to ask you to take the thing off. Around where I live (Indiana) the local law enforcement wouldn't give a damn about a clear plate...I know that to be a fact. They'll probably even let a light tinted one get by. But smoked, which is just a few shades lighter than dark or black, is probably a ticket in waiting.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Petorius
Stop making these long posts! People are more likely to read the ones that are short, sweet and to the point.

Edit: I apologise as I wasn't exactly sober posting this one... However IMO if you don't want to keep up with the conversation you don't have to knock it...

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Gimli
1. Containing all components; complete: a whole wardrobe for the tropics.
2. Not divided or disjoined; in one unit: a whole loaf.
3. Constituting the full amount, extent, or duration: The baby cried the whole trip home. 4.

Touche :lol: given I was using an exaggerating tone (tone which is not perceivable by text alone, lol) when I said "whole" but I'll ceed that to you anyhow ;)

Originally posted by Gimli
Clearly it's not just the police officers who are uneducated and who have no idea what words really mean. I, for one, will trust their judgement because, so far, it's exactly the same as mine and all I can see here is is an uneducated law breaker trying to re-define words to justify his law breaking.
Fair enough, but again my tone was exaggerative. Evenso, I'm not calling anyone uneducated really, it's all a lot of exaggeration...

Originally posted by dangerranger
Wow, you make Canadian cops sound like a bunch of jerks. And they're completly uneducated? More and more departments around here are started to require two years of college. I think officer discretion is a good thing, but it is usually the other way around, the officer choosing not to enforce the law, i.e.: speeding.
Again, I do have some level of apology on that note... I didn't mean to say that police officers here or in general are uneducated. Just that those that have the time to give ppl tickets for such nonsense and ESPECIALLY those that do so only because of bias of certain groups of people should ought not to be police officers because their actions speak far louder than however educated they are supposed to be.

Originally posted by Gimli
And yes, coloured plate covers make the plate look dark and dim (which is verbatim the first definition you cited), by reducing their contrast.
Then there is something quite wrong with your eyes, honestly. It isn't just "looking dark and dim" but it is hiding in darness. The numbers on the plate are NOT HIDDEN. Furthermore yellow plate covers ENHANCE/INCREASE the contrast of the plate/numbers printed on it. So I'm really puzzled as to how those plates can be ticketed. And the law shouldn't puzzle us.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
Did you miss what I said? Officer discretion makes it "illegal" and nothing else. There is no codified law that says you can't have a plate cover that is tinted, blue, yellow, etc. It's simply the officer saying so that makes it illegal. So *no* it isn't "illegal, then it's illegal", cop was "doing his job" and other such total BS...
Well here in NY it's written in the state law that you can not have anything covering your license plate. So yes, there is a law saying it's illegal.
Originally posted by YepYep
If so, after I pulled over, the officer did check my licence and the ownership paper... why still give me the ticket?!

Because you broke the law maybe?
If it's illegal to not wear you saftey belt should the officer only write you a ticket if your in a accident without wearing it?
Originally posted by YepYep
I still remember last time when I took my wife home in the lunch break. (Holiday, almost no bus at all, she only need to work for half day, but I need to go to work all day long. So I picked her up from her office and back home then I went back to work) A nice police officer gave me two tickets. One is speeding, the other one is I didn't bring the licence with me. And then I visited the court 4 times until I finaly could show my licence to the court to cancel the ticket about no licence driving. First time, still long weekend, no service. Second time, I went too early, the record didn't file yet. The third time, "oh, unfortunately no quick service this week. Do you want to have it filed and make an appointment 6 months later?!
So is it the court's fault you broke two laws? Speeding and not having proper identification on you while operating a motor vehicle?
Originally posted by MantaGreen97
And you just reinforced my point really. Because obstructions include dirt as well as a plate that is corroded or damaged so you can't read it well. And my point is that there are dirty and/or corroded plates out there that police will almost never give tickets for; yet plate covers where the plate is nice and clean and clearly visible, they'll give tickets for that.
Funny you say that, since you think your such a expert maybe you should have went to court with me last month for the ticket on recieved dur to my license plate being dirty and unreadable.
Originally posted by MantaGreen97
You're joking right??? The whole purpose of the cover is to keep the plate nice and clean and new looking and, of course, clearly visible.
How does a cover make it "clearly visable"? You have to clean it just as you would the license plate.

Not sure how you Canucks do it but here in NY even clear plate covers are illegal, period the end. Come to NY and try your know it all mouth to a judge and see how far you get.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
Not sure how you Canucks do it but here in NY even clear plate covers are illegal, period the end. Come to NY and try your know it all mouth to a judge and see how far you get.

Again in Canada these laws are goverened under provincial jurisdiction (meaning that it might be different for some "Canucks" than others). This is granted to the provinces by ss. 91 and 92 of the Constitution Act, 1867.

None of the plate covers are necessarily illegal in Ontario as far as I know. Now I might be missing a common law precedent here, I'm not sure; but I haven't really seen anything saying they are necessarily illegal.

In any event, you can't be ticketed for a clear plate cover in ON, no. So clear plate covers are definitely fine. It's the other ones that are in the possibly grey area.

As for trying my "know it all mouth"... First of all I don't know it all. Second of all, I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT NY STATE... DID I MENTION NY STATE ANYWHERE IN MY POSTS???

Give over man. As much as I "like" to argue with you, here I'm not going to. I know very little about NY state motor vehicle regulations nor do I care about them for the purpose of what I wrote. (I am actually interested in learning about them otherwise as I believe learning about different laws is quite interesting.) Anyway please don't harp on me for bringing myself, my "know it all mouth" :roll2: and my plate covers to NY state. Because this thread isn't about NY state at all--just look at the OPs post for goodness sakes...

[YepYep]

Originally posted by TA^Guy

Because you broke the law maybe?
If it's illegal to not wear you saftey belt should the officer only write you a ticket if your in a accident without wearing it?
[/B]

My text here is to reply the "fake plate" quote.

My meaning is the officer pulled me over was for checking whether the plate behind the cover was a fake one or not. After checked my licence and the ownership, he should know it's a real one, so why still gave me ticket?! Or in another word, once you were pulled over, you must have to have a ticket (or more) ?!

[Gimli]

Originally posted by YepYep
My meaning is the officer pulled me over was for checking whether the plate behind the cover was a fake one or not.

Is that what the officer told you? You didn't mention that in your original post.

[Old Guy]

Anybody have "Chain Notes" for this thread???? :chain:

[PontiacGA]

PA+Having Fun=Illegal

[GaOwner2004]

dose anyone know what parts are legal and Illegal for the engine

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by YepYep
My text here is to reply the "fake plate" quote.

My meaning is the officer pulled me over was for checking whether the plate behind the cover was a fake one or not. After checked my licence and the ownership, he should know it's a real one, so why still gave me ticket?! Or in another word, once you were pulled over, you must have to have a ticket (or more) ?! Did he say that's why he pulled you over?

Why should he let you go if you wasted his time on something like that anyhow?

Either way it doesn't matter, if you broke the law by having it on there you broke the law.

In many places tinted glass on the drivers and passengers doors are illegal for a few reasons, driver vision, and police officer saftey to name a few. So if you are pulled over with tinted glass and the officer approches the vehicle and realizes you are not a physical threat to him he should let you go?

It's like people who act suspicious wonder why they are questioned about what they are doing.

[95CombatGA]

i just have to say, i live in NY and my town cops are gay.... i was with my boy when he got a ticket for drvinin with stock foglights on a illuminated *highway* (it wasnt a highway lol) and a reat obstruction of veiw for his wing plus no front plate stc....
see cops are dicks , some may just hate the way u drive or the way ur car loooks or hell , if ur hat is turned sideways, ur gonna get pulled over.... here at least.... i hate my town but since my car is fully kitted and always clean, so far, no one has stopped me for anything but to hear my exhuast(tints,lights,no frontplate, exhuast)

so what im tryin to say, is, unless ur dad is a cop or know someone, just gotta be a bitch and take it down, or RIDE DIRTY LOL

[Vimjah]

This can all be avoided if people just keep cheap crap off of their cars. Wal-Mart, Canadian Tire are not the type of retailers that you should be looking at when it comes to customizing your vehicle.

Honestly, I can't think of the last time I heard someone say "that NOS decal looks sweet" or "where can I get a bolt on Muffer tip like yours?"

As for my .02 of the legal/illegal issue; I think the point that is being missed is that the cop's don't decide what is and isn't illegal... they decide who they are going to enforce it upon. I have a shitload of "illegal" mods done to my car and havn't been pulled over ever b/c I don't draw attention to myself while driving. The best way to avoid further tickets is to know the law and don't draw attention to yourself.

P.S. I know in Manitoba Headlight covers are allowed from 30 min after sunrise until 30 min before sunset. It may be this way in ontario too.

[GaOwner2004]

Thanks for the tips guys ttul

i mite need some more help later

[95CombatGA]

Vimjah well spoken man well spoken.... maybe thats why cops pull over retards with NOS stickers hahahaha an they get a ticket for it lol

[GaOwner2004]

why cops pull over retards with NOS stickers

to see if you have any NOS in your car or something

[Gimli]

Originally posted by Vimjah
P.S. I know in Manitoba Headlight covers are allowed from 30 min after sunrise until 30 min before sunset. It may be this way in ontario too.

It's not.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by 95CombatGA
see cops are dicks ,
When someone rapes your mom or sister call a crackhead.

However a "Wing" maybe be gay, but it's not a obstruction of vision. Anything behind you is not a issue as long as you have two functional outside rear view mirrors.
Originally posted by Vimjah
This can all be avoided if people just keep cheap crap off of their cars. Wal-Mart, Canadian Tire are not the type of retailers that you should be looking at when it comes to customizing your vehicle.

Honestly, I can't think of the last time I heard someone say "that NOS decal looks sweet" or "where can I get a bolt on Muffer tip like yours?"

As for my .02 of the legal/illegal issue; I think the point that is being missed is that the cop's don't decide what is and isn't illegal... they decide who they are going to enforce it upon. I have a shitload of "illegal" mods done to my car and havn't been pulled over ever b/c I don't draw attention to myself while driving. The best way to avoid further tickets is to know the law and don't draw attention to yourself.

P.S. I know in Manitoba Headlight covers are allowed from 30 min after sunrise until 30 min before sunset. It may be this way in ontario too.
Who's talking about NOS stickers or Muffler tips???

Are you saying a liences plate cover from Ebay or "Nopi" is better than one at PepBoys or Walmart? lmao... Please. :roll:

BTW, headlight covers on '96+ GA can be illegal all the time because they are a obstruction to the directional.

[Vimjah]

Originally posted by TA^Guy


Who's talking about NOS stickers or Muffler tips???

Are you saying a liences plate cover from Ebay or "Nopi" is better than one at PepBoys or Walmart? lmao... Please. :roll:


I clearly used those two things as an example of cheap crap that people put on their cars, thinking it looks good when it really doesn't and just attracts negative attention. I'm personally against licence plate covers/frames. The point I was making is that you can modify your vehicle to look good on a budget providing you don't go cheap where you shouldn't.

[BadBlack00Ga]

Originally posted by Gimli
It's not.

62. (1) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (1).

Therefore if the lights are not required to be on by law, any obstruction to those lights should not be ticketed.
Think hide-away headlamps.

[Gimli]

Originally posted by BadBlack00Ga
62. (1) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (1).

Therefore if the lights are not required to be on by law, any obstruction to those lights should not be ticketed.
Think hide-away headlamps.

...and subsection 7 of the same article:

Attachment that affects lamps prohibited

(7) No person shall drive upon a highway a motor vehicle if either or both of the lamps that are required on the front of the vehicle by subsections (1), (2) and (3),

(a) are coated or covered with a coloured material; or

(b) have been modified by the attachment to the lamps or the motor vehicle of any device that reduces the effective area of the lenses or the intensity of the beam of the lamps. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).

Also federal law covering vehicle standards and especially DRLs mention you cannot interfere with them.

[tomknotts]

Just a couple things guy,
1) you said that the plate cover was on the front of the car, in canada you are not required to have the front plate (at least in b.c.), all you need is the rear one with the sticker on it (look at cars with temp insurance the paper is in the window).
2) tinted windows are not illegal, they are only illegal if you do it your self, car companies tint the front drivers side and passengers side windows all the time(pontiac montana for example)

and for the most part if you say the mod came with the vehical they wont fine you just tell you to get rid of it. except lights(under carage and ect)

[Gimli]

Originally posted by tomknotts
Just a couple things guy,
1) you said that the plate cover was on the front of the car, in canada you are not required to have the front plate (at least in b.c.), all you need is the rear one with the sticker on it (look at cars with temp insurance the paper is in the window).

Registration is a provincial responsibility and, in Ontario, front plates are mandatory.


Originally posted by tomknotts
J2) tinted windows are not illegal, they are only illegal if you do it your self, car companies tint the front drivers side and passengers side windows all the time(pontiac montana for example)

No Montana (or any other vehicle for that matter) ever came with factory tint on the front windows, except for the allowed 70%.

That kind of disinformation is exactly why people can't figure these things out. If you want to start spewing that BS make sure you provide links to the actual legislative text you're referring to.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by Gimli
No Montana (or any other vehicle for that matter) ever came with factory tint on the front windows, except for the allowed 70%.

That kind of disinformation is exactly why people can't figure these things out. If you want to start spewing that BS make sure you provide links to the actual legislative text you're referring to.
Exactally, show me one production vehicle that has the driver, passengers and windshield tinted.
Originally posted by tomknotts
and for the most part if you say the mod came with the vehical they wont fine you just tell you to get rid of it. except lights(under carage and ect)
Also wrong, they can fine you.

Even if your barrowing the car from a friend, it's the operators duty to make sure the vehicle is in proper working order each and every time it's driven.

[Vimjah]

Originally posted by tomknotts
Just a couple things guy,
1) you said that the plate cover was on the front of the car, in canada you are not required to have the front plate (at least in b.c.), all you need is the rear one with the sticker on it (look at cars with temp insurance the paper is in the window).
2) tinted windows are not illegal, they are only illegal if you do it your self, car companies tint the front drivers side and passengers side windows all the time(pontiac montana for example)

and for the most part if you say the mod came with the vehical they wont fine you just tell you to get rid of it. except lights(under carage and ect)

1. In MOST canadian provinces you need front and rear plates... as far as I know BC and Alberta are the only ones that you don't need front plates.

2. window tint IS illegal if it does not meet provincial standards. If it does not allow enough light through then you can be ticketed. For example, in Manitoba we are allowed 35% in the rear of cars, 50% on the front side windows, and a 15% windshield banner that does not go below the factory sun blocker. In Trucks the same goes for the front, but you can have the back windows blacked out if you wanted. Also, In Sask. you aren't even allowed to have tint on the front 2 windows at all. Lastly, vans may have tinted rear windows when you buy them, some cars may too.... but for the most part vehicles do not come tinted from factory, it's a dealer installed option. Not to say that all vehicles are like that.. but most aren't. :)

[VanishingImage]

I have bought tail light covers(smoked) and license plate covers,no long use them,just really didnt need them. BUT if you read the packages it says right on the box,FOR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY. I wouldn't have liked being pulled over for something so small. If I was going the speed limit and cop actually could see my plate and do a check and see that I had no record then I think he/she should go on and check other plates of cars that speed,more likely have another record of a speeding ticket.


Im all for law and law officers. I understand the fact that tint can hide fake plates or hide people in the car that might be holding a gun,etc... but if the cops can check the plates before even stepping out and approaching the vehicles they can see whos more likely to be a threat on the street then others. Its all about who looks more suspicious out on the road. If you have headlight covers,tail light covers,etc.... and they are on during the night,to me,that looks suspicious,even during the day. If you JUST have a license plate cover(even I can read the plate with the smoked ones) and not speeding,etc,then I don't see any reason to bother pulling them over,theres A LOT more people out on the road that are possibly more threatening.

just my .02 ,not trying to fight over stuff,just spitting my thoughts

[PICC_prez]

im michigan i have a shit load of points for such pointless things like

Excessive lighting
Neon lights
fog lights to low to ground
impressonating a police officer
Smoked licenseplate
2 tint tickets
almost noise pollution ticket (exhaust and system)
almost screen visble to driver
warning for lack of airbags
followed and warned for car scrapping (lowered GA and pipe fell at the time it scrapped)


fog lights to low - there is a law in michigan that states you cant have auxillary lighting at a certain height there is a hieght max and a height minimum. i just took them off and left the brakets on my eclipse went and got the car inspected then in the police parking lot put the fog lights back on:lol:

[TA^Guy]

I see alot there that doesn't seem too pointless to me.

[PICC_prez]

ok theses arent poitnless

almost screen visble to driver
warning for lack of airbags
followed and warned for car scrapping (lowered GA and pipe fell at the time it scrapped)


but these are and ill explain why i got them

Excessive lighting - neon lights that made me MORE visble

Neon lights - other states say its legal

fog lights to low to ground - they where aimed right and didnt shine in peoples eyes

impressonating a police officer - i had read lights on a 91 eclipse with a vader bodykit kit lowered with ground lights i dont really know what cop car is and eclipse with ground lights

Smoked licenseplate - liscense plate was perfectly visble from 500 ft away

2 tint tickets - i ran a yellow light and the cop pulled me over and said that i ran a yellow (never exceeded speed limit) so i explained if i hit my brakes hard i would have skidded to a hault and i would have got a wreckless driving so instead of taking my explanation he and his partener walked around my car told me to rev car and that was legal at the time, so they found a tinted licesne plate and window tint and gave me a ticket for that

almost noise pollution ticket (exhaust and system) - motorcylces where passing me with their exhaust and mine was too loud and my system wasnt even on or even hooked up at the time but he pulled me over for it


basically what im saying is these tickets shouldnt be points or a reason to pull someone over when there are more dangerous drivers on the road

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by PICC_prez
ok theses arent poitnless

almost screen visble to driver
warning for lack of airbags
followed and warned for car scrapping (lowered GA and pipe fell at the time it scrapped)


but these are and ill explain why i got them

Excessive lighting - neon lights that made me MORE visble
It's also a distraction to other drivers. Flashy lighting, or unusual colors, light patterns, can confuse other drivers unaware of the situation.

Neon lights - other states say its legal[/quote
Doesn't matter if other states say it's legal, is it legal in the state you are in?

Also if you are visiting another state where equipment on your vehicle is not legal, it's your responsibility as the owner and operator of the vehicle to make sure it complys with local, state and federal laws before operating it.

[quote]fog lights to low to ground - they where aimed right and didnt shine in peoples eyesI have no idea about this one, but I do know in NY your lights have to be atleast 12" from the ground.

impressonating a police officer - i had read lights on a 91 eclipse with a vader bodykit kit lowered with ground lights i dont really know what cop car is and eclipse with ground lights
Colors like Red and BLue are reserved for emergency vehicles ONLY.

It doesn't matter what kind of car you are driving, do you think everyone knows what your car is? At night do you really think some soccer mom looking in their review mirror will see red lights and go. "Ah it's just a Eclipse with a Vader kit." No.

Many police departments across the nation own vehicles other than your typical Caprice or LTD. Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers, Tahoes, Jeeps, Pick Up Trucks, Motorcycles, are all very common vehicles. They are identified during a stop by their bright warning lights. Typically being red and/or blue depending on where you are.

What if a Sportbike pulled up behind you with red and blue lights? Who you pull over? You might want to because there are several police departments know for owning Police bikes, few ride Hayabusas.

Smoked licenseplate - liscense plate was perfectly visble from 500 ft awayYeah standing still. Take that 500 feet and get it moving about 80mph in and out of traffic and see how easy it is to read. My motorcycle plate can be read from that far away but I know even on video it can't be read from 30 feet away.

2 tint tickets - i ran a yellow light and the cop pulled me over and said that i ran a yellow (never exceeded speed limit) so i explained if i hit my brakes hard i would have skidded to a hault and i would have got a wreckless driving so instead of taking my explanation he and his partener walked around my car told me to rev car and that was legal at the time, so they found a tinted licesne plate and window tint and gave me a ticket for that Is tint illegal where you live? Got to pay if you want to play... Incase you aren't familuar with the term, it means if your going to put illegal things on your vehicle don't be surprised when you get fined for them.

almost noise pollution ticket (exhaust and system) - motorcylces where passing me with their exhaust and mine was too loud and my system wasnt even on or even hooked up at the time but he pulled me over for it This is something use sportbike guys complain about alot. How Harleys and such get away with loud pipes but we don't... However they don't always get away with it. But those that ride bikes know that loud pipes save lives. Possible those officers ride too.


basically what im saying is these tickets shouldnt be points or a reason to pull someone over when there are more dangerous drivers on the road
Anything illegal is a great reason to pull someone over. Do you know how many criminals with warrents out are caught by simple traffic stops for thing slike "Tinted glass" or "No Frontplate", etc?

[PICC_prez]

since your not seeing what i have to say my tint plate was read on the expressway by my friend while i was goin 90 mph i have a brighter light on it then stock so you could see it at night



and the tickets i recieved should not be points they arent harming anyone if you get destracted by lights and cause and accident you shouldnt be driving in the first place

[DontPassTheFence]

I guess Ill chime in here a bit...

Ive got smoked tails, ebay headlights, 6% visability tint, and no orange turn signals.

My car is all black and I hardly ever get pulled over (12 times since Ive owned this car)

of these 12 times, I was 'warned' each time, given 2 written warnings, given 2 fix it tickets (one for tint, one for my rear plate light being out :( ) and cited for speeding once, even though I was speeding by 5mph or more on every occasion (except when I was given the citation for my plate light)

Now Ive learned quite a bit about cops. My car doesnt seem too conspicuous or threatening, its probably because they have all pulled me over so much, they know Im just a punk kid with a modded car, I dont know... but only a couple seem to bitch about the tint (the tint laws in AZ are pretty lax, any percent on the rear windows, down to 15% on the side windows, so that makes sense)

Id say the number one thing that gets you pulled over is driving with your neons on... And why would you do that anyways? Most, if not ALL states say that any color neon lighting is illegal... Usually its for use while parked only... Although, me myself, I have no god damn clue why neon is so cool - I must have missed that memo.

But John is right, if you mod your car, you are gonna have to be careful about how you do it, since most popular mods are illegal to some extent, and while maybe we think its stupid, its the law (and everyone knows how much I love 'the law') - so just deal with it and be prepared to de-mod your car, or get the checkbook handy, as you'll be writing many to the state or your citations.

[PICC_prez]

the neon things i was parked in a car wash they also gave me a loitering ticket (sry on spelling) even though i was dusting my car off and went to court they kept the ticket on michigan cops and court system is ruthless to modded cars even legal



mine is now legal 100% (i do have neons but show only)

still get pulled over and warned about shit that is not illegal


i even had my local police station run an examination of the car and it past with no problems

i think its just board cops

(i have nothing against most police my gf family is mostly county cops and they are awesome and their job isnt easy)

[GMInfinity88]

wow....i just read through all the shit that u guys have went through and I feel like i ran a marathon; lol. But I do have to chime in on the license plate thing (that being the purpose of this converstation) and agree with the people who say they do more good than harm. I do understand the whole "fake plate" argument, however I have clear plate covers on my GA which make visibility great for anyone looking at my tags. The argument that they obstruct your view, they can't be more obstructing then some guy flying past you at 55 with a rusted plate. Im from western NY so I deal w/ most of the shit that every one else is dealing with. However I havnt been pulled over for any illegal shit on my car and my friend, who owns a 95 5.9 limited grand cherrokee has 20" rims, tint so dark that it is hard to see at night, blue headlights, all parts of light are clear (those who know what jeep headlights know what im talking about here) and 2- 12" infinity kappa subs w/ the other f'n 12 speakers in his car and has never been pulled over even with his system blasting. Long story short....it is ultimatly up to the cop's discretion if he wants to pull u over or not and 9 times out of ten, they wont do anything but every so often they will be dicks and give u a ticket. I know alot of cops so im not condeming all police officers under this category, however my neighbor is a real dick, and a hamburg P.O and he has abused his power by literally stepping in front of my car at 6am while im trying to go to school, forcing me to skid to a halt (in the middle of winter, icy road) and told me if I ever swerve on the road again (also keep in mind its winter and the road is icy and im not intentionally fish tailing) he will come to my house and take my car....tell me that is not abuse of power

[Bumpin1OHM]

"At night do you really think some soccer mom looking in their review mirror will see red lights and go. "Ah it's just a Eclipse with a Vader kit." No."

:roflmfao:


that is sig worthy right there....

[SilverBane]

In alberta we are not allowed any tint on the front windows. I am booked to get a 50% put on it( just to take some glare off) and if i get pulled over I am gonna claim that because I bought it used from a dealership in BC, it came with it and I didnt know. Hopefully it will get me out of a ticket.

[PICC_prez]

Originally posted by Bumpin1OHM
"At night do you really think some soccer mom looking in their review mirror will see red lights and go. "Ah it's just a Eclipse with a Vader kit." No."

:roflmfao:


that is sig worthy right there....



no but a soccer mom knows what a cop car looks like and it looks nothing like an eclipse with pop up healights that is lowered people in around my area no what cop cars look like we even know that they use chargers grand prix and implalas that arent marked



NO ECLIPSES with Huge foglights that are lowere have have a red glow comin from under neath the car

[97SE3100]

is interior lighting illegal?? or just underglow?

[-grandamfan99-]

just paid my smoke plate ticket :D 28$ ha i broke that thing soon as the cop told me about it

[PICC_prez]

Originally posted by 97SE3100
is interior lighting illegal?? or just underglow?



if your in michigan the law states any type of lighting other then factory equipt is illegal



and they REALLY frown on red and blue or the two together

[97SE3100]

thats lame, my whole interior is blue =( its not that visible if my lights arent on though... lol