Bearing sound from accessory side of engine

[ho bag]

On my 99GA Im getting a squealing/ratteling sound from the accessory side of the engine. Does it bad on cold mornings. Once warm its not bad accelerating but gets bad on the decel. Is depending on engine rpm and not speed.

I am thinking either PS pump or Altnator or tnesioner. Anyway to narrow it down? i dont wanna throw money at it to make it go away. Just need to find a way to narrow it down to the bad accessory and replace only that one.

Is there a chance this could be commign from the timing chain? i guess if i pulled the serpentine belt off and stated the car for 5 secconds it would tell me if it was the chaine or not.

PS: If i gotta take the accessory off ill probally replace the tensioner and belt anyway. Car has 150k on the origional so i might as well leave it.

[carlover626]

Could it be the serpentine belt making the noise?
A mechanics stethescope would help isolate the noise as well.

[ho bag]

Its deffently mechanical noise, not the belt.

[sunrunner_pei]

If the belt/tensioner is that old, I'd replace them both. If that doesnt solve it, check into the idler pulley, then go from there.

I have the same problem on my Sunfire.

[ho bag]

I think im gonna remove the belt. Run the car for 10-15 sec and rev is a couple of times. If the noise is gone then that will rule out the timing compnents. Then i can start tracing it back to which one is at fault.

The issue the noise is very hard to pinpoint.

[Vhrus]

Is the oil pump in these cars run off of that belt?

[sunrunner_pei]

Not off the belt, no.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by ho bag
I think im gonna remove the belt. Run the car for 10-15 sec and rev is a couple of times. If the noise is gone then that will rule out the timing compnents. Then i can start tracing it back to which one is at fault.

The issue the noise is very hard to pinpoint.
As sunrunner said, a belt and tensioner that age need replacing.

Removing the belt is a PITA, and not a simple test procedure (requires removing the bolts from the motor mount).
I would first use a mechanic's stethoscope as Carlover stated, (or length of garden hose) and listen to that idler pulley at the tensioner.

The noise being different in accel/decel modes strongly suggests the idler pulley as the problem, rather than a driven accessory.

Hope this helps,
-Rick

[ho bag]

Ya i already know they need replacing so i might as well just order them in and do that first. At least then if its still making the noise i will have eliminated one possible cause.

Also while that belt is off ill check the idler pullies to see if they have any play in them. If they do ill have to replace them as well.

Still cheaper then swaping an altnator or PS pump :)

[99GrandAMSE]

... if you want to test the belt to see if it is the noise maker, with the engine running spray some 'belt dressing' on it ... more economical is to simply grab a bar of regular hand soap and touch the underside of the belt while it is running (BE CAREFUL!!!) ... either method will lubricate the belt temporally and tell you whether the noise is the belt or something else :)

[ho bag]

I already know its not the belt. Its a mechanical sound.

[99GrandAMSE]

... belts can sometimes fool you, believe me ... I thought the same thing on my Blazer one time and it ended up costing me an alternators and tensioner when all I needed to replace was the belt :(

[coupe]

Originally posted by ho bag
I already know its not the belt. Its a mechanical sound.


I bet i know what it is.
Turn your A/C on, does the sound stop?

[ho bag]

I would love to.....If it worked....

Also i can confirm that the noise is comming from towards the top of the engine. The A/C compressor sounds quite.

[mattcow]

I have the same noise as well. Its defiantly from the top...either PS, alternator, or tensioner.

[coupe]

Originally posted by ho bag
I would love to.....If it worked....

Also i can confirm that the noise is comming from towards the top of the engine. The A/C compressor sounds quite.


Your A/C dosent work at all?
Even though it dosent push out cold air it should still engage.
Try it anyway.

When the A/C clutch fails it gives off a metalic sound and it dosent sound like its coming from the A/C clutch, it sounds like it coming from the top of the belt area.

[ho bag]

I believe the A/C system is empty. Maybe a leak in the line. I dunno. I dont really care about the A/C right now. Anyway to fix that if it is the case without replacing the ac compressor.

[coupe]

For the love of god go out to your car, start it with the A/C in the off position, when you hear the noise turn your A/C on, try all the settings. If the sound stops its your A/C clutch.

[ho bag]

LOL ok on my last break ill run out and try it just for you.

[99GrandAMSE]

... I might have to run in to Dartmouth :lol:

[ho bag]

Well i went diging on my 15min break...

I fixed my cig lighter (yay)

I also disconvered why my A/C dont work (melted relay). Swaped it for the horn and the A/C came on :)

Now i gotta go buy another relay. No big deal


However i was not able to check if it made a difference in the sound as its nice and warm out side and i didnt have time to go for a rip and put the car under load to try and reproduce the issue.

Tomorow morning it will be 4°C so it will be easy to tell then.

[coupe]

Temp shouldnt make any difference at all, you just wanna engage the A/C clutch. Dosent matter what the temp is or if your A/C blows cold or not.

While your car is idleing, does it make that sound? Is this sound constent?

[ho bag]

The temperate out side does make a difference, a big one at that!

The colder it is the worse the noise is.

[coupe]

So it makes a difference with the temp?

So the sound, is it constent? Does it always make that sound no matter what? Give some specifics of the sound and when you hear it most.

[ho bag]

Well....The colder it is the worse it is. It sounds like bad bearings. Its not so bad while accelerating but gets worse when reving down. Almost a rattely sound. Sounds like its comming from the accessory side of the motor. Unable to pinpoint exact location. All pulleys i could get a can of lube near have been lubed with no effect.

[coupe]

Originally posted by ho bag
Well....The colder it is the worse it is. It sounds like bad bearings. Its not so bad while accelerating but gets worse when reving down. Almost a rattely sound. Sounds like its comming from the accessory side of the motor. Unable to pinpoint exact location. All pulleys i could get a can of lube near have been lubed with no effect.


Everything you just said points to the A/C clutch.
I got $100 says it the A/C clutch.
Its such a common problem with GA's and GP's its not even funny.

[ho bag]

Well tomorow morning i will have a chance to test your theory. If infact the A/C clutch is gone, is the only fix to replace the whole compressor? or can i just replace the magnetic clutch.

[mattcow]

The lube in the bearings would be affected by the cold...so if your bearing is making noise it would defiantly be worse when its cold until the bearing heated up.

[coupe]

You can replace the clutch itself but its really not worth it.

You can bypass the whole A/C unit if ya want.

Check out these threads from gagt.com to bypass it totaly.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63513&highlight=bypass+a%2Fc

Or

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61156&highlight=bypass+a%2Fc

[carlover626]

Is it possible to bypass the A/C on my 2.4??

[coupe]

Originally posted by carlover626
Is it possible to bypass the A/C on my 2.4??


There are kits made for the 2.4L to bypass.

[ho bag]

Well its still doing it. On a side note,Im loosing PS fluid but not leaks....Hmmmm this makes my head hurt.

[99GrandAMSE]

... you coming to Sackville anytime soon? :lol:

[ho bag]

NB? you never know with me.

[sunrunner_pei]

Kelly means Sackville, NS. :)

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
Kelly means Sackville, NS. :)

:)

[ho bag]

OH ya, probally tonight.

[99GrandAMSE]

Originally posted by ho bag
OH ya, probally tonight.

... I'll PM you my telephone number .. give me a call before you come and maybe we can meet up for a few minutes so I can hear your noise ... no guarantees that I am any better at it than you but maybe a second opinion might help :)

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by mattcow ...so if your bearing is making noise it would defiantly be worse when it's cold until the bearing heated up.
Might happen, I dunno
The lube in the bearings would be affected by the cold... There is nothing 'lubable' about any pulleys (or their bearings) on the GA's accessories, and the lubricating agents aren't affected by heat, cold, moisture, or petroleum.

I've been wrenching on cars since the '60's, and other than a single zerk fitting on a Corvair's idler pulley, I can't recall any accessory pulleys (or their bearings) that needed, or could be, lubed on any car of the post-WWII era.

I don't know what Ho Bag did when he lubed the "...pulleys [he] could get a can of lube near...".
* You don't put an lubricant (oil, grease, silicone, soap, whatever) on the belt or the pulley's belt face.
* And the bearings (which support the pulleys' driveshafts) are completely sealed and non-lubable.
* * For the powersteering pump and the waterpump, the bearing is INSIDE the device, and is lubed by the fluid (there is a seal on the shaft to prevent outside contamination and internal leakage).
* * For alternator, AC clutch, and idler pulley, the bearings are permanently factory-lubed and sealed.

Modern permanently-lubed bearings are very effective 'cuz the metal bearing shells are impregnated with graphite and/or silicone, which aren't affected by temperature or moisture.
They aren't lubricated with oil or grease as old-style bearings were, so the viscosity change of temperature doesn't apply.

[ho bag]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
Might happen, I dunno
There is nothing 'lubable' about any pulleys (or their bearings) on the GA's accessories, and the lubricating agents aren't affected by heat, cold, moisture, or petroleum.

I've been wrenching on cars since the '60's, and other than a single zerk fitting on a Corvair's idler pulley, I can't recall any accessory pulleys (or their bearings) that needed, or could be, lubed on any car of the post-WWII era.

I don't know what Ho Bag did when he lubed the "...pulleys [he] could get a can of lube near...".
* You don't put an lubricant (oil, grease, silicone, soap, whatever) on the belt or the pulley's belt face.
* And the bearings (which support the pulleys' driveshafts) are completely sealed and non-lubable.
* * For the powersteering pump and the waterpump, the bearing is INSIDE the device, and is lubed by the fluid (there is a seal on the shaft to prevent outside contamination and internal leakage).
* * For alternator, AC clutch, and idler pulley, the bearings are permanently factory-lubed and sealed.

Modern permanently-lubed bearings are very effective 'cuz the metal bearing shells are impregnated with graphite and/or silicone, which aren't affected by temperature or moisture.
They aren't lubricated with oil or grease as old-style bearings were, so the viscosity change of temperature doesn't apply.

Im smart enuf not to put any oil or lub on any belt face unless i was trying to make it slip and fail.

I sprayed lube on the sfaht of the accessory where the pully meets the accessory on the back side. If anything was in or near there rubbing or sticking or any dirt it would have been sprayed away or lubed.

Trust me im not a complete mororn. I do know my way around cars as well (maybe not since 1960).

Im picking up a belt and tensioner since its due anyway, ill run the car with no belt for a few secconds to make sure its not engine related. Im also putting aside half a day on my next day off to put some effort into resolving the issue.

Only good this about all this is i know have working A/C (well needs a refill) and my cig lighter works again.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by ho bag
I sprayed lube on the sfaht of the accessory where the pully meets the accessory on the back side. If anything was in or near there rubbing or sticking or any dirt it would have been sprayed away or lubed. Gotcha.
Good idea.

I'm smart enuf not to put any oil or lube on any belt face unless I was trying to make it slip and fail.Yeah, I knew from your previous posts that you're pretty sharp.

I wanted to make sure any n00bs reading the post understood that they couldn't/shouldn't spray lube blindly hoping to eliminate noise.
You'd be surprised how many people have come on here in the past couple years, saying something to the effect of, "I sprayed WD-40 on my squeeking belt and it stopped making noise." :eek:

I'm not saying they were complete morons (and didn't mean to imply that you might be), but n00bs-to-cars have some bizarre ideas.

Peace,
-Rick

[ho bag]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
Gotcha.
Good idea.

[B]Yeah, I knew from your previous posts that you're pretty sharp.

I wanted to make sure any n00bs reading the post understood that they couldn't/shouldn't spray lube blindly hoping to eliminate noise.
You'd be surprised how many people have come on here in the past couple years, saying something to the effect of, "I sprayed WD-40 on my squeeking belt and it stopped making noise." :eek:

I'm not saying they were complete morons (and didn't mean to imply that you might be), but n00bs-to-cars have some bizarre ideas.

Peace,
-Rick

Your right, no offence taken either. However i did notice today that its worse in wet weather as well.

Ive come to believe that the belt and tentioner will fix part of my issue. But there is still an accessory flaking out on me and im comming to think it may be PS (because im also loosing fluid but cant find where its going). Either way ill buy the belt and tentioner and report back once there on the car.

BTW: spraying wd40/liquid wrench in the holes around a noise strut mount WILL reduce the noise and banging comming froum that mount :)

[mattcow]

I've had a few bearings on different engines where the seal failed and the bearing were very dependant on temperature.....until they broke

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by coupe
Your A/C doesn't work at all?
Even though it doesn't push out cold air, it should still engage.
.. uhm, No, it shouldn't.

Not necessarily.

The system has a safety setting that prevents engagement under some circumstances.
If the pressure is too low (in the high side or low side, I dunno which), then the clutch will NOT engage because the system knows it will cause damage to itself.

So, depending on his AC problem, this DIY 'test' may or may not show any results.

-Rick