headers

[audie]

:???: Let me have it. Pacesetter headers, approx. $300, a good investment? Thanks Audie

[nice96gt]

definitely

[ihatemygrandamg]

Your looking at the wrong headers. Pacesetter dont make em for our engine.

[sudden_impulse]

Sorry audie, I'm guessing you're looking at the ones for a 4-banger. 4 cylinder engines these days have cheap enough headers because that's the demand, 6 cyl doesn't have as much demand, so they turn out to be something like $800.

[dangerranger]

SSHeaders is the only place i know that makes 'em.

ssheaders.com (http://www.headermania.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=H&Category_Code=V6HeadersGA)

[coupe]

S&S and they are $500 ceramic coated.

I love mine.

[92CamaroRS]

the 3800 guys hate S&S headers, they are worse to install than SLP's and the quality is worse. TOG's are considered the best, and i know they have gone out of business so you can't get them new anymore, but used might be an option. but this is all on what has happened with the 3800 world, might be different with the 60* guys.

[coupe]

TOG's are considered the best in the GA community and i just dont see why.
TOG's coating falls off after awhile, a bunch of people have clogged there cats becuase of it.
TOG's are notorious for leaking at the welds.
TOG's have bogus CARB numbers.
TOG's down pipe has broken on a few people.
TOG's are a 3 piece design making it a PITA to install.
TOG owners have to constently re-tighten the header bolts.

S&S, no problems reported by anyone to date.
The only problem i heard of is one guy got shipped the 3800 headers by mistake. He got the right ones with in a week.

They both give the same exact gains however, there is no difference in performance.

Doubt my claims?
Search here and gagt.com on TOG's and S&S headers.

[92CamaroRS]

Originally posted by coupe
TOG's are considered the best in the GA community and i just dont see why.
TOG's coating falls off after awhile, a bunch of people have clogged there cats becuase of it.
TOG's are notorious for leaking at the welds.
TOG's have bogus CARB numbers.
TOG's down pipe has broken on a few people.
TOG's are a 3 piece design making it a PITA to install.
TOG owners have to constently re-tighten the header bolts.

S&S, no problems reported by anyone to date.
The only problem i heard of is one guy got shipped the 3800 headers by mistake. He got the right ones with in a week.

They both give the same exact gains however, there is no difference in performance.

Doubt my claims?
Search here and gagt.com on TOG's and S&S headers.

I'm not doubting your claims, im just saying what i've heard of both companies in the 3800 world. i even stated it was not for the 60* V6 stuff, and that might very well be different.

[Matt95GT]

Rand is right... I've seen some of the TOG problems firsthand. Seth prolly has the worst horror story with TOG... pretty much everything in that list and real runaround trying to get his defective set replaced.

[Conley]

Heard alot of talk about the Pacesetters, but I can only find them in the 4-1. Any idea where one might find the 4-2-1? Thanks.

[sudden_impulse]

Sorry about bein wrong on the price difference Coupe, I'm human and can admit it, I just thought I had seen headers for 800. Do the headers even make a huge difference on these engines? I have heard that it's a small improvement only.

[Colin]

Originally posted by sudden_impulse
Do the headers even make a huge difference on these engines? I have heard that it's a small improvement only. Yes they will make a significant difference , the stock cast iron manifolds are very restrictive ... ;)

[sudden_impulse]

Would they be reasonable to buy for just street though? Taking it to the track or shows is a different matter, but wouldn't anything other than highway/freeway driving make them virtually useless?

[Colin]

Originally posted by sudden_impulse
Would they be reasonable to buy for just street though? Taking it to the track or shows is a different matter, but wouldn't anything other than highway/freeway driving make them virtually useless? Some of the benefits of headers are an increase in HP and torque throughout the RPM range , improved throttle response , reduced back pressure , greatly improved exhaust scavenging , less weight than cast iron stockers . All these would be useful on the street as well as at the track ...
;)

[VanishingImage]

not to mention weight. Im currently installing my TSUDO header on my 2.4 and when my stock exhaust manifold came loose,wow,sucker was heavy. Gotta love cast iron parts. Definately should help free up some un-used power,not a butt load but worthy of getting out of the motor

[Colin]

Originally posted by VanishingImage
not to mention weight I did mention weight ...

[coupe]

Everything Colin said LOL
They make a HUGE difference all around. They are the best bang for the buck performanse wise. I havent regretted it once in the 3 years ive owned them.

Almost EVERYONE who puts in headers drops .5 in the quarter mile.

I went from 15.6 to 15.1 after installing headers.
Then i put in DHP 1.0V and now can hit 14.9's all day.

The 2 best mods you can possibly do is headers and a PCM reprogram.

[VanishingImage]

Originally posted by Colin
I did mention weight ...

beat me to it

[tjsblackbonne]

Hi guys. I am a bonneville driver. I dont know much about the 2.4's but i am pretty good around the 3800's. Well to get to the point i cam across this post and am intrested in the TSUDO header you are talking about. I recently bought my brother an intake for his grand am. He is chads97grandam on here. I am intrested in getting him a header for a christmas present. Tell me a little about it. Where can i buy it? how hard of an install it is? ect? thatnk you guys

[Xeiros]

By TSUDO I believe he was refering to the make-shift header he made out of a 4-1 (rksport?) header that was for a cavalier. Even though the Cavi's and the GA's both used 2.4's, the headers aren't interchangable due to clearance issues with the GA's.

I think VanishingImage had to do some modifications to it himself to get it to work.

[tjsblackbonne]

oh i see. Is there any company that makes one that fits the GA?

[sudden_impulse]

Terry, there's Pacesetter, S&S, TOG if you must, not sure which makes what kind other than that Pacesetter doesn't make 3400 headers. What engine size do you have? Might want to have that under your avatar.

[VanishingImage]

TSUDO is the company that made the header. Its made for a 2.4 but made to fit in the J-Body.

Not sure if this company makes headers for the 3800. Youd be better off with S&S headers for that motor.

[Xeiros]

From what I understood from his post, he's looking for headers for his brothers car, not his bonnie. And since his brothers car is a 97 (based on his screenname), he's got a 3100 or a 2.4, and I do believe it's the latter.

[VanishingImage]

if thats the case,then there aren't any 3100 headers out(unless the 3400's will work with slight modifications) but if its the 2.4, be ready to helping your brother out with getting the header to fit. My car has been on jack stands the past week.

[tjsblackbonne]

yea he has the 2.4 sorry about that. So there are no bolt up headers huh? Any other items that would give him a decent kick in the @ss for around $200 or so. All he has so far is an intake and muffler. His pb so far is 16.6@85. We would like to get atleast 16.5 or lower by the end of the season any ideas? Thanx guys

[Xeiros]

Are we talking a WAI or a CAI? If it's a WAI, try getting some pieces from autozone or something to make it a CAI.

[tjsblackbonne]

Yea it is one of those full WAI. It gets red of the resonator at the tb and goes to the fender by the battery. We were going to make an insulated box around it and make a ram air tube (using something like dryer vent) from the fog light area into the box. That is what i did on my bonne. Our ultimate goal would probably just be high 15's. Does that sound possible or no?

[dangerranger]

If it's a warm air intake, best thing to do would follow ryan advice in converting it to CAI, should be really cheap to do. Another thing would be a full catback exaust. Since you already have the muffler, you should be able to find a shop to make you one for around $200. I think my truck exaust only cost me like $175(no muffler).

[tjsblackbonne]

So are you saying to use pvc pipe and put the filter in the fender? We have quite a few people in the 3800 world that have done that. Yea we already have a 2 1/4" magnaflow high flow cat for it and were thinking about doing a 2 1/4" inch catback. Would noticable gains come from that? Also would it be alright to get it crush bent because i dont believe there is a place around here that does mandel bending. Give me some more ideas guys i really appreicate it.:)

[dangerranger]

Yeah, you could use pvc pipe, i think autozone sells tubing specifically for intakes though.

You should be able to find a place that will pressure bend pipe, i wouln't get it crush bent. As for gains, somebody with a 2.4 has to answer that, but it should help.

[tjsblackbonne]

alright thank you

[VanishingImage]

for 200 I would have a custom exhaust done. Atleast 2 1/4inch piping from the cat and possibly bigger down pipe since you can't really deal with the manifold much.

I gave up on the header project for now,will deal with it at a later time.

[95CombatGA]

Originally posted by coupe
S&S and they are $500 ceramic coated.

I love mine.

wheres S&S and do they make em for the 3100??

[GrandAmSSE]

Won't 3.4 headers work on the 3.1?

[VanishingImage]

doubt they will bolt right up. Kind of like the 2.3 and the 2.4,not much difference but enough to make it not bolt right on

[Xeiros]

Originally posted by tjsblackbonne
Yea it is one of those full WAI. It gets red of the resonator at the tb and goes to the fender by the battery. We were going to make an insulated box around it and make a ram air tube (using something like dryer vent) from the fog light area into the box. That is what i did on my bonne. Our ultimate goal would probably just be high 15's. Does that sound possible or no?


Thats very possible. I'm not too far off from that myself right now. There is a Pontiac thing going on out at the local dragstrip this Sat, and I'm looking to hopefully break into the 15's then.

Originally posted by tjsblackbonne
So are you saying to use pvc pipe and put the filter in the fender? We have quite a few people in the 3800 world that have done that. Yea we already have a 2 1/4" magnaflow high flow cat for it and were thinking about doing a 2 1/4" inch catback. Would noticable gains come from that? Also would it be alright to get it crush bent because i dont believe there is a place around here that does mandel bending. Give me some more ideas guys i really appreicate it.:)

Yeah, just route that piping into the fender wall for a CAI. Should be fairly cheap to do. Just don't use an overly large cone filter. You're going to want one that doesn't widen out too much because then it makes getting the fender wall bolted back in a royal PITA.

As for the exhaust, with your WAI converted to a CAI, I would expect it to compliment the widened pipes quite well. I know after I put together the CAI, she seemed to come alive a bit more. I wouldn't recommend the crush bends though. Shop around and see if you can find anyone within a reasonable distance that does pressure or mandrel bends. It really helps.