Setting up system for a friend.

[PontiacGT]

Ok guys, just wanting to double check for errors and get opinions. I'm putting together a setup for my friends Grand Prix, she gave me a $500 spending range and she likes kicker, so here's what I came up with:



Subs:

I decided to give her 2 10's becase she likes to listen to rock and once in a while rap, so I figured she would get the better sound out of 10's vs. 12's. I went with kicker for these, and chose the Comp VR series. I know it's not as good as the VX but it's less money. As you can see from the link, the subs are rated at 300w RMS each at 4 ohms, so if I wire these up they will be either 4 ohm or 1 ohm, and I decided to go 1 ohm with a 1ohm stable mono amp.

I plan to buy these from onlinestereo.com and here is a link to the product.

Kicker CompVR 10" DVC 600w RMS @ 4 ohm (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=14818)

These subs will ship for free (orders over $99) and they are $95 each, totalling $190.00 shipped


Amp:

Amps are pricey, that's no lie, and since I will be running 600w RMS (300 RMS x 2 subs) I wanted an amp near that, at 1 ohm to match the speaker load. I decided to check out Hifonics and liked what I saw, as far as price and quality.

I am thinking about the Hifonics BXi 606 which is rated at 600w RMS x1 @ 1 ohm, which seems to be exactly what I need.

Also buying from onlinecarstereo.com, so it will also be free shipping with my order. Here is a link:

Hifonics BXi 606 600w RMS x 1 @ 1 ohm (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16363)

This amp will ship free for $175.00


Box:

As far as boxes go, they are simple. Going with a dual 10" sealed 3/4 MDF box with .85 cu. ft. per chamber, and the subs ask for a minimum of .8 cu. ft. so I think I'll be close enough. I looked around and they are fairly cheap on ebay, I found one on auction that should be less than $45 shipped by the time it's over.


Anyhow, so the amp, both subs and the box come to a total of

$410.00 shipped, roughly.


What do you guys think of this setup? I think it looks pretty good but I always appreciate other suggestions.

[hamiltonaudio]

For a budget system, much of the consumer-grade stuff available will perform admirably well if installed and setup correctly. The only choice I question is the HiFonics piece - they are notoriously flakey product, and typically don't make the power they "rate". One of the few companies that overstates their power :( I'd bank on that 600 wrms being closer to 400 wrms. <I used to deal Hifonics till I got sick of returns ;) >

Boxes aren't simple...but if you're going to go sealed, leave it that way :) An experienced installer can get a LOT more out of those subs in the correct vented enclosure, but I think its out of your budget...I think in the end you'll get decent results with your choices, even if you want to stick with the Hifonics piece...

Good luck!

bmoney

[PontiacGT]

Feel free to reccomend an amp under $250 with 600w RMS or so...

I put in a JBL 300w amp into my sister car, ebay deal for 120 shipped and that thing beats the piss out of her sub, so i know there is good quality for good price too, but I heard hifonics was good.

[car audio dave]

yes, hifonics WAS good. like 10-12 years ago.

for an amp id recommend the Phoenix Gold Xenon x400.1. i know it sonly 400 RMS but its clean power and itll work really well, especially for the application.

you need to remember that the subs TAKE 300 RMS each, but they dont need it. a 400 watt amp that has clean power will work much bette rin your use than a 600 watt amp with distorted power. also, the PG amps are slightly underrated, so you might get closer to 500 watts. the amp is $249 from carmedia.com but they have a typo in their site. it says that the x400.1 has 600 watts, it doesnt.

im using that amp in my fiances car to run a single 12w6v1 and its running off a stock deck. very clean at all volumes.

[djdanger]

The only choice I question is the HiFonics piece


Hamilton may be right, however, I have that exact amp, I so far have not had any problems with it, and am using it to drive 2 12'2 and is plenty of power for me. If she is not going to be in competition, this amp will probably do fine for her.

[PontiacGT]

^thanks for that comment, she's definitely not into competition. I know phoenix gold is a good brand I just think it's a bit pricey I dunno...

[MantaGreen97]

You can get an Orion HCCA D1200 on eBay for around $180-$190 plus shipping. :)

It will do 600W RMS into 1 Ohm as well, and I'd recommend it over the HiFonics. I'm sure there's others but I can't really think of many 1 ohm stable ones off the top of my head...

[PontiacGT]

Ok guys, she told me today she's interested in a bandpass box, to keep the speakers away from dust and stuff.....I guess. So would these subs do well in a bandpass box or not really? And the problem with buying an amp on ebay is that you usually have to pay for shipping, whereas if you buy it at a store online they usually have free shipping deals.

[SilverBane]

Check out some of these pre-bundled packages from some reputable companies...

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QxGYwhfIKk3/cgi-bin/prodgroup.asp?cm_re_o=kwufEzM%2Al5TDii%2A5TnionDi&g=208250&pg=2

Not everything is about pure wattage, a buddy of mine has some P2's with 250 watts each going to them and they are some of the best sounding subs I have heard.

[hamiltonaudio]

i'd highly recommend staying away from a bandpass enclosure. the generic product (which I think is whats in your budget) SUCKS BAD. They are tuned and sized very generically (obviously) giving you generic results. The bandpass design is dated and has gone the way of the dinosaur for good reason.... the response is typically muddy, peaky and offers almost no transient response.

If she's worried about the subs being vulnerable, there are plenty of grilles available for purchase ;) Stick with sealed my friend! SilverBane - I disagree that power is not everything ;) it is EVERYTHING. A system with more power will ALWAYS sound better than a system with less....period. Its called headroom. That isn't to say that a lower-power system can't be /good/, just more power is /better/, feel me?

How come you don't want to support a local shop in your town?

bmoney

[PontiacGT]

because my home 'town' is a pop. of 745 and there are no custom companies within an hour away.


Honestly bandpass looks sweeter but I understand the ports are tuned very badly for the subs, and i havent been able to find a bandpass box with the right specs for these subs anyhow so I may have to explain that to her. Sealed will sound better for her. She's worried about them getting dusty, not punctured so grilles won't do much for that but anyhow.....

[SilverBane]

My point was that you dont necessarily get BETTER sound with more power. You definatly get MORE sound. I think that a balance system is better then a system that is all sub!

[PontiacGT]

AAAaAAAAAaaahhhHHHHH ok


so she's like "oh i was hoping you could get sqaure subs" I'm like............those cost more. I mean she listens to rap and rock, so I thought 2 10's would be good for her, but maybe if I just get her one 12" L5 or L7, would that work too? I mean, in your opinions, would one 12" L7 perform better for rock and rap than 2 10" compVR's?

Might as well look into other amps then if i'm changing all of this....the single 12' square box will be cheaper, leaving more money for an amp.

[car audio dave]

whenever im designing a system for someone who knows nothing about car audio i tell them that ill pick it out and they will be happy.

dust isnt an issue if she plans to use the subs. they blow any dust off whenever being used. grills will protect the cones.

bandpass isnt necessarily bad, the thing is, you need to consider the 3 typical types of box. sealed has a decent range for specs and sizes. you have the most flexability in the design. ported (or vented) boxes need to be more exaact to specs. the volume needs to be within the small range (smaller range than sealed boxes) and the port must be the right size and depth.

a bandpass box is the most picky. the rear volume must be exact (no range) as well as the front vented portion has to be the exact size, as well as the port being the right size and depth.

people like bandpass boxes the best for looks because plexi is used on them, but the plexi is usually thin (1/4") which also causes flexing.

if a bandpass box is built to specs it will cost you $350+ just because of all of the calculations and measuring, and it will only play a small range of frequencies. in those frequencies the subs will be the loudest. that setup is best for rap only, which usually sticks to a small frequency range.

if you listen to any other type of music on a bandpass box you will not hear some kick drums or some of the lower frequencies as well.

[Brandon]

what about all the wiring needed and anything extra such as a cap or something or the big 3 up front (battery, alt, and wiring) ?

that might put you at 500.

[DSMMAN]

Originally posted by PontiacGT
Feel free to reccomend an amp under $250 with 600w RMS or so...

I put in a JBL 300w amp into my sister car, ebay deal for 120 shipped and that thing beats the piss out of her sub, so i know there is good quality for good price too, but I heard hifonics was good.


Kicker makes one. Its 259.00 and it will push those to the max. WE sell it at my store. Ill get you all the specs on it and you can go from there. Any dealer up there should have it or be able to get it.

[hamiltonaudio]

Originally posted by car audio dave
bandpass isnt necessarily bad, the thing is, you need to consider the 3 typical types of box. sealed has a decent range for specs and sizes. you have the most flexability in the design. ported (or vented) boxes need to be more exaact to specs. the volume needs to be within the small range (smaller range than sealed boxes) and the port must be the right size and depth.


All good information, although not entirely correct ;) There is as much flexibility in volume and tuning for a vented enclosure as there is sealed. Many people are stuck on what the mfg "specs' the subs to work in...not knowing that the values are merely guidelines to provide a very consumer-happy type sound.

For example, if the driver is "spec'd" to work well with 2 cubes vented to 35 hz, I'd argue that sub will work from 1.5 cubes at 30 hz to 3 cubes at 45 hz....quite the variation :) :) :) The deal comes down to what the expected outcome is....just because the subs will function in such a variety of enclosures doesn't mean that the customer will be happy with the sound of ALL of them...likely not :)

This is what you pay a quality installer to do - determine your goals based on your typical music choice, and suggest the box design that will maximize results for YOUR product in YOUR car with YOUR music. THIS my friends is why a good custom box costs money....

as for hijacking the thead - sorry :P

bmoney

[car audio dave]

well i must admit that my personal experience in ported boxes is limited to maybe 30 or so installs. i try not to experiment outside of recommended box dimmensions, but ive heard some pretty bad ported boxes before, so...

ill take your word on it that youve got some flexability. what i was trying to say is that a sealed box is more forgiving with a prefabbed box (one that will be used in this situation) versus the others, but the second most forgiving is the ported, with the LEAST forgiving one being the bandpass.

[PontiacGT]

Ok thanks guys, but I think I'll pass on the bandpass box.

Back to the question, what would you reccomend for rock and rap, 2 10" compVRs or 1 12" L5 or L7?


I found a box that looks really good on ebay, let me know what you think if I were to go the single 12" route.

Kicker L(x) 12" box (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&item=170036047158&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

[DSMMAN]

I would go for the 2 10's for rock and rap. But thats just me.

[PontiacGT]

Any more suggestions?


UPDATE:

Just talked to her, we decided against the single 12" L7, we'll get the 10" VRs and a sealed box, no bandpass.


so basically back to the amps, will the hifonics i picked out be loud enough for the 2 subs, i mean it wont cut out will it?

[DSMMAN]

I dont like HI Fonics personally


www.crutchfield.com has some good amps as does www.sounddomain.com

[PontiacGT]

Final Update:

Placed the order this afternoon. I bought the 2 10" Kicker CompVRs at Dual 2 ohm.

I also went with an Alpine MRP-M650 that james and I discussed. That's 600w RMS x 1 at 2 ohm (400w x 1 @ 4 ohm) so if I checked correctly I can wire the speakers in series and parallel and have them at 2 ohm for the amp.

Quick question, I don't know the size (ga) of wire she has in her current amp kit. What size would you reccomend for this amp, what's a general rule to go by? We may have to upgrade the wiring if it causes us performance problems but who knows.


Also, if you see the following wiring diagram:

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/graphics/infolib/carlib/subs/2_2ohmDVC_2ohm.gif

I have to parallel the positives and negatives, what is the best way to connect these. Is there a connector of something that takes 2 positives, makes it one to go to the amp positive or do you guys just make a big wad of positive wiring and negative wiring and then just run it to the amp?

[PontiacGT]

*bump for the parallel question

[hamiltonaudio]

in your case I use the speakers terminals. run a wire from one sub to the other, then from that sub to the amp inputs (for bot + and -) Other think you can do is run them both to the terminal cup and solder them together there....

bmoney

[PontiacGT]

I guess I cant picture what you're saying.....I need to wire the subs themselves in series first, then parallel them to the amp....so I have one wire connecting a + and - on each sub, then the + and - left from each sub would get wired to the + and - on the speaker cup....this would happen in both enclosed spaces....then outside, i'd have to find a way to connect both +s and both -s together, then run them to the amp. I'm sorry I don't understand your post.

[DSMMAN]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
in your case I use the speakers terminals. run a wire from one sub to the other, then from that sub to the amp inputs (for bot + and -) Other think you can do is run them both to the terminal cup and solder them together there....

bmoney




I would do what hes saying. Good advice.

[PontiacGT]

Ok, so we installed the system today and it was a wonderful day.

We were in her car last night and honesly, she said she had a system but we couldn't tell....i'm like "all i hear are your 6x9's and she's like 'oh i have to turn it up really loud" and I'm like "I still dont hear the subs".

Anyhow, today we went to disassemble the old setup. We looked at the subs and I was like, oh 2 12" MTX ok not bad, i was like..."where's the amp?" She's like "oh it's behind the box...." so we pulled out the box, and there sat this tiny little POS amp, about as wide as my hand and my friend and I actually started laughing at her. This thing was some crap brand "road...." something I cant even remember. Well we take that stuff out, and my friend shows me the end of the power wire and I was like "how did you get that off" and he's like......."it wasn't connected!" I mean the wire pulled out of the clamp connecting it to the amp.....the stupid thing didn't even have power! Christ. Upon further disassembly, we found the smallest speaker wire i've ever seen....had to have been smaller than 18ga.....like thread. Also, we saw that one of the wires wasn't even stripped......the dumbass that installed it put it on without stripping the wire.....which of course had no connection, but it doesnt matter I guess since there was no power...........jeeeeeeezzzz......

So basically the old system was being powered (or not powered) by a 250w PEAK napa amp, (prolly like 80 dirty watts RMS) for 2 12" subs.....which wasn't powered....which wasnt hooked up right....I was dumbfounded I was like don't you EVER let that http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_censored.gif do your system again.


Anyways The install went well, I wired up the speakers and it turned out really nice, the amp works wonderfully and the subs are beautiful and it POUNDS! I love seeing the look on friends faces when they like what I do for them. She was so happy, which makes it all worth it. She even tipped me, I think she gave me like 25$ to do what I like and hang out with friends....

Also, no cutting out. The amp performs as much as she wants, we had the volume on the HU up to 41....I didn't wanna go much higher since the subs were still new, and she's running stock speakers up front (which sound great in a grand prix BTW) and just didn't wanna blow them..... However, 20 minutes or so with the car off, system on, the car wouldn't even turn over, had to jump it haha. I told her to get a new battery, and if it's draining her headlights at night we may end up getting a cap haha.

So ya the system sounds good, and even if it's only 2 10's they are great, give a good massage in the backseat that's for sure.

Pictures and video to come on sunday night when I get back to campus!

[VanishingImage]

glad to see a good setup perform well and check out good

Have her invest in a Yellow Top. Much more versitile then just a cap. Might be a little more $$ but it'll pay for itself since its been recomended by most audio people. Im gonna invest in one myself. Just have to shop around for the best prices on one

[DSMMAN]

Glad you found that amp man. I bet it sounds good. Congrats

[hamiltonaudio]

yep - capacitors are nothing more than overpriced bandaids....even the larger "hybrid" banks of 20-50 farads...really nothing more than for show. A yellowtop is indeed a great investment...it will not only stand up much better to the stereo system, but the car will start better in the cold.

if you're looking for a truly EFFECTIVE secondary power source, consider a product like BatCap or Kinetik Power. They're a cross between a battery and a cap....essentially the large current ability of a battery with the insanely fast discharge/recharge of a capacitor. They claim the largest one will start most cars :) On a simple street install (one smaller amp, and nothing more), it sounds to me like the car could use a quality big-3 upgrade. This alone helps a whole bunch....

glad to hear you're having fun - I was in the place you're in at one point...only i was about 16 at the time. Doing installs was FUN and I did it for essentially free. Needless to say not anymore ;) I still have the love for the game, and fortunately it has not become a /job/ which ruins installers. But with skill comes price <nudge>

bmoney

[DSMMAN]

I have the yellow top optima in my Eclipse and love it. Its worth the money.

Like he said, something to keep in mind.

[PontiacGT]

Ok everyone, pics and video as promised. I tried to keep the wiring as clean as I could and make it look nice for her. Man it sounds great though.







Here's a shot of my "office" haha, not really it was at her dads shop, he owns a granite company...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/PontiacGT/100_1593.jpg


Here is the back of the woofers. Not the biggest I've seen of course, but not bad.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/PontiacGT/100_1594.jpg


Both subs, finally wired in the box...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/PontiacGT/100_1596.jpg


And the amp mounted in the center of the box (yes i used a tape measure haha)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/PontiacGT/100_1597.jpg

And finally, the camera video I took, to the tune of Ludacris' Intro track on his latest cd, which we've nicknamed the #1. (.MOV file)



Movie (http://www.d.umn.edu/~lepr0003/Luda%20%231%20Test.MOV)

Lemme know if you can view it and what it sounds like.