How to fiberglass.

[bandit307]

I found this and thought it would be pretty helpful to anyone who wants to learn.

http://www.explorerforum.com/fiberglass/fiberglassing.htm

[car audio dave]

i didnt read it, but it looks decent. theres 100s of tutorials online. the best way to learn is to try it. its easy to get intimidated by reading about it. theres lots of techniques, everyone develops their own.

[epicenterdesign]

Originally posted by car audio dave
i didnt read it, but it looks decent. theres 100s of tutorials online. the best way to learn is to try it. its easy to get intimidated by reading about it. theres lots of techniques, everyone develops their own.




Agreed.

If you want some more info, I am also a moderator on www.fiberglassforums.com
We have tried to make this new forum as friendly as possible and try to help out everyone as best we can.
Feel free to join up and seek out an answer to any questions you might have.

[inferno]

so i tried to fiberglass my first enclosure yesturday and what a mess. lol i started to get pissed off cause first i wasnt putting enough hardner in. then the mat kept getting stuck to my glove and it wasnt sitting right. lol

harder then i thought it would be. 1 more coat and i can take it out th trunk to work on in the house woot

[car audio dave]

its all about experimenting. i usually dont touch the mat once it has resin on it. i paint the rein down onto the surface its going onto, then i lay the mat down, then i paint over it. its like paper machet.

[hamiltonaudio]

another trick to consider is to use spray-adhesive (on just the surface) to hold the mat in place....you can glue an entire section of mat down very easily, then use your paintbrush to soak it with resin.... MUCH easier than having it pull up and away...

bmoney

[VanishingImage]

shaping is somewhat difficult. I had to do some fiberglassing on my body kit to get it to fit better. Had to cut the ends off the side skirts and extend them out some,was some what challenging for me with no fiberglass skill but did it and the guy that painted it said he hasn't seen someone that did such a nice clean job like that.

So anyone can fiberglass just have to jump in and try it. The materials really aren't expensive so you can mess around with it and learn

[inferno]

painting it on kinda sucked. so after a while i just started dipping the mat into the resin then sticking on the trunk lid. still didnt work too well. lol

ham. i was thinking about a possible spray application but didnt know how well it would work..

ill just keep at it til i get a technique down

[98_gee-tee]

its definitely an expensive and time consuming hobby

[inferno]

Originally posted by 98_gee-tee
its definitely an expensive and time consuming hobby

lol you said it. i spent $40 on resin and 20 on fiberglass. lol its a good thing im doing something small :)

i took the glass off my trunk lid and to my suprise i didnt break it. not that its not hanging in the air i may be able to apply better layers of glass

[epicenterdesign]

inferno......I am not sure what it is your trying to 'glass, but here is something we put together on www.fiberglassforums.com to help people out.

http://www.fiberglassforums.com/showthread.php?t=724

[inferno]

dude i dont think i could ever lay some mat down like that

maybe it would help if i used a paint brush

i might get it eventually. just have to work mroe with it.

im making a speaker box on my trunk lid to hold 4 6.5" speakers

next project is making a body for my mini bike.

[98_gee-tee]

a paint brush or 6 definitely helps

[inferno]

ok i put 2 layers down and with a brush w/ bristles and it came out way better.

first time i tried using a foam brush :(

but this went well. now i will make my mdf rings and put some fleece down

[hamiltonaudio]

:needpics:

bmoney

[Big Joe]

Originally posted by inferno
ok i put 2 layers down and with a brush w/ bristles and it came out way better.

first time i tried using a foam brush :(

but this went well. now i will make my mdf rings and put some fleece down


Yeah a foam brush must have sucked, I never used anything but a bristle brush. What made you get a foam one?

[inferno]

joe its what i had laying around the house from when i was running the roller on my ga. which will become my winter fiberglassing project :)

the bristle worked way better :) but my house stinks lol i usually do things in my attic or outside dont know why i did it in my living room yesturday.

so im not going to be putting 6.5 in here cause i still dont know what im doing and getting into all the curves will be a pain for now so im going to do 2 6x9 speakers there.

bmoney ill take pics of what i have when i get home today. got 3 layers on whats going onto the lid. im going to hit a few stores today and get some fleece. make my mdf ovals. and fiberglass some more.

quick question. when i place resin on the cloth do i wait for that to dry before applying mat or do i soak the cloth then place mat onto it?

[Big Joe]

Originally posted by inferno
joe its what i had laying around the house from when i was running the roller on my ga. which will become my winter fiberglassing project :)



ahh ok, I wanted to make sure you didnt get crap info somewhere

[inferno]

well i did notice that most instructions/tutorials dont say to use a BRISTLE brush but simply say use a brush

[Big Joe]

Thats cause, I could be wrong here, but I think the foam ones arent technically brushes. I think there real name is like foam aplicators or somthing like that.

[inferno]

well now i know dont use foam applicators :)

[Big Joe]

:thumbup:

[hamiltonaudio]

don't spend a lot on brushes either - to maximize the life of the brush, have Acetone handy and let them soak between coats/applications. a single brush will get several coats on before its too gummed up to be used (many throw them away after one use - this is wasteful ;) )

bmoney

[inferno]

guess ill have to pick some up. i bought 4 of em to start. shot out the one i used yesturday.

hey can u guys answer my first question and then tell me what a "milkshake" is or made of

[car audio dave]

i think he uses the term "milkshake" for a product similar to "kittyhair" which is a mix between fiberglass and bondo. i could be wrong.

[Big Joe]

Originally posted by car audio dave
a mix between fiberglass and bondo. i could be wrong.

^ :agree:

[hamiltonaudio]

nope nope nope ;)

Kittyhair = fibreglass reinforced filler
Milkshake = secret recipe of two completely different products

A milkshake is nothing more than polyester resin AND lightweight bodyfiller mixture. You can mix it light so its very pourable, or you can mix it thick so its very sticy and brushes on. Do some testing first (as not all materials are compatible) but I can tell you that using Evercoat Rage Gold (the defacto standard lite filler in install bays) mixes VERY well with any polyester resin. The part to be careful of is the catalyst. Resin uses a liquid MEKP, while most fillers use a cream type (like toothpaste). Some fillers do NOT like to be mixed with liquid MEKP - and some resins don't like the cream.

I'm happy to report that Rage Gold doesn't mind a 50/50 mixture of liquid and cream hardeners.... I'm sure with some experimentation, I could use ALL liquid or ALL cream and have the same results.

The purpose of a milkshake is really 2 fold in my mind. First, when applied in thicker form, it adds a lot of "body" to the project and dries very very smooth....if your pre-work isn't sickeningly lumpy, this final "shake" will provide you with a very nice finish that needs very little work....

just fleece/stretch and resin:

http://www.hamiltonaudio.com/imgpost/rear2.jpg

Light milkshake applied to an UNSANDED base (note the bumpies still there)

http://www.hamiltonaudio.com/imgpost/rear3.jpg

After some sanding, the results are smooth as glass - note the high spots went right through back to the white fleece, and the lowspots stayed:

http://www.hamiltonaudio.com/imgpost/rear4.jpg

And that my friends is a milkshake :)

bmoney

[inferno]

ok thats what i thought milk shake was. but didnt know about the mekp stuff. i need to pick up some evercoat stuff cause all i have is a small amount of bondo filler

how do you make the rings stand up? i was having trouble with this last night but i did trim the glass to fit the trunk lid.

[hamiltonaudio]

standing up the rings is a combination of:

1. ingenuity
2. backstrap, screws, glue
3. hot glue
4. CA glue
5. LUCK

Make stands, lips, straps, holders, etc to put the rings where you want em. Keep fandangling with them till they fit!

bmoney

[inferno]

i new that was going to be the hard part. lol

this is alot harder then i thought it was going to be

[car audio dave]

i use wooden dowels to hold up my rings. seems to work pretty well. i use hot glue to hold them in place, and if i want to remove them then i just use a heat gun to reheat the glue and it comes right out.

[inferno]

ok i used pens and 2 part epoxy :), glassed it im going to get me some more filler then start more work on this thing. woot sanding here i come

[inferno]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/inferno6685/projects/new021.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/inferno6685/projects/new024.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/inferno6685/projects/new025.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/inferno6685/projects/new026.jpg

and my nice big oops
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/inferno6685/projects/new029.jpg

[hamiltonaudio]

my only comment for a newbie is that you didn't need to use fibreglass mat overtop of your fleece. Simply soaking the fleece through, then reinforcing with a milkshake is PLENTY for cosmetic panels... Looks like yout got LOTS of sanding to do! ;)

bmoney

[inferno]

lol sanding sucks.

i tried making a milkshake but i didnt put enough hardner in it so i made a bunch of filler then slapped it on. it dried faster then i thought it would and left me with that nasty lump in the middle.

learning experiences

[epicenterdesign]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
my only comment for a newbie is that you didn't need to use fibreglass mat overtop of your fleece. Simply soaking the fleece through, then reinforcing with a milkshake is PLENTY for cosmetic panels...




I would agree with you on that, except he has speakers in there so it is not merely a cosmetic panel.
Also, fleece alone will be brittle when cured, so mat would add some integrety.





As for the milkshake.......... I use a mix of 60% filler and 40% resin and then enough liquid MEKP for the amount of resin added.
It makes it thick enough to stay in place pretty good, yet flow around when you use a brush to apply it.

[epicenterdesign]

Oh yeah, I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on ring placement.

It may be hard to follow without pics, but when I make a ring, I will router out the speaker cutout half way.

I use a 2x4 cut at the angle I want the speaker facing and put ascrew through the center of the baffle into the 2x4.

Then I secure the 2x4 to the base/mold with TWO screws into the 2x4. This keeps it from spinning on the base/mold.

Stretch the material and resin.

Trim the material off the ring, revome the scres off the back side and then I use an air body saw, (use a jigsaw if thats what you have), and cut the rest of the ring out. It will cut very easily now.

Lift the center of the ring out you just cut and the piece of 2x4 will come right out also.

At this point, it would be a good idea to mix some fiberglass chop and resin to spread inside so it will help hold the rings to the material better.

[hamiltonaudio]

an old school trick - and really only applicable to larger woofer rings. Not nearly required for speakers of any size really...also remember when doing woofer molds, keep in mind that you want to support the weight as best you can...

When I did the ring for my MX12 (a 35 lb woofer - not hugely heavy but much heavier than most) I did the 2x4 trick AND glassed in a set of 2x2 braces cut at the right angles with a chop saw... once wrapped and dried, that pressure alone will hold them in (nevermind the resin putty used to glue them in place :) )

Its all about strength!

bmoney

[hamiltonaudio]

Originally posted by epicenterdesign
I would agree with you on that, except he has speakers in there so it is not merely a cosmetic panel.
Also, fleece alone will be brittle when cured, so mat would add some integrety.





As for the milkshake.......... I use a mix of 60% filler and 40% resin and then enough liquid MEKP for the amount of resin added.
It makes it thick enough to stay in place pretty good, yet flow around when you use a brush to apply it.

there are numerous ways to get the strength necessary out of fleece-only without resorting to using mat on the outside which later turns into a finishing nitemare. I've ALWAYS used resin, then milkshake(s) and the integrity is SOLID.... I have yet to have something come back cracked or broken without an ounce of mat on applique panels like that ;)

I say if its not needed, and will only cause a LOT more work later, why use it? :)

bmoney

[inferno]

i have a few more project i want to do and experiment on. i really want to thank you guys for all your help