results with the Tornado fuel saver

[hamiltonaudio]

I've been selling them for a while...so I thought I'd actually try one. The KI85 is the PN for the 3100 btw :) I've been driving this car for about 2.5 months know, so I'm completely used to it. Couple of thoughts:

1. when the engine is cold, out of the hole acceleration seemed stronger than warm - undoubtedly due to richer fuel mixture in open loop operation

2. the car is in an otherwise good state of tune - no issues at all

the install was relatively simple, and aside from the rubber intake boot making me dirty, no complaints at all. Initial feeling is that this stupid thing indeed does improve performance. And I'm not kidding.

Strictly by the seat of my pants, there has definitely been a noticeable improvement in acceleration. It just pulls harder... Tonite the pavement was somewhat wet, and pinning it (once rolling to prevent spinout) the car barked the tires from 1st to 2nd and caused the LOW TRAC light to come on (until now I've never seen it :) ) I'm part way through a tank of gas now, so the real test will be the next tank thats full....

thought some of you might be interested...

bmoney

[04alyGT]

really, if this is what i think your talking about, i've only heard bad things
link please
i'm running low on sleep here so forgive me, but i'm assuming you can't have this with a cai?
EDIT: found what your talking about (i think) http://tornadofuelsaver.com/272/tornadofuelsaver/tfs.php?PHPSESSID=10d15c0c7153a7fe2d5d1d4d86b76041 ,

i can't see how this would help increase power, in fact it seems like sticking this in the hose would just inhibit the airflow but idk, does anyone else have this that could back it up?

[sc02grandam]

does not work.. complete waste of money

[tenspeed]

Popular Mechanincs test of various fuel savers.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1802932.html?page=1

[Matt95GT]

They do not work. In fact, someone on either 60degree V6 or Beretta.net actually dyno'd one on a 3100 or 3400 and lost power.

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
I've been selling them for a while...

AKA you've been ripping people off.

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
1. when the engine is cold, out of the hole acceleration seemed stronger than warm - undoubtedly due to richer fuel mixture in open loop operation


If the thing actually worked, the overall A/F mix would be leaner, as more air than usual would be able to enter the combustion chambers.

[04alyGT]

lol yeah thats exactly what i figured

[DSMMAN]

That would be something like the turbonator.com lol

[hamiltonaudio]

I wonder if you are misunderstanding the concept of this unit? It does not ADD anything...it doesn't not REMOVE anything...it simply adds a "twist" to the airflow to enhance fuel/air atomization... I also like the popular mechanics testing - they "gassed up" the trucks with 1 gallon gas cans and "ran them dry". How about months of real driving and averaging results?

real musclecar guys will remember "swirl port" heads...same idea, different execution. I didn't realize that even moderators could assert personal attacks on members.. <shrug>

bmoney

[eric99gt]

Sorry bro but the thing just does not work. If you honestly believe it does then go do a dyno with it in and out. You'll see the truth.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
I wonder if you are misunderstanding the concept of this unit? It does not ADD anything...it doesn't not REMOVE anything...it simply adds a "twist" to the airflow to enhance fuel/air atomization... I also like the popular mechanics testing - they "gassed up" the trucks with 1 gallon gas cans and "ran them dry". How about months of real driving and averaging results?

real musclecar guys will remember "swirl port" heads...same idea, different execution. I didn't realize that even moderators could assert personal attacks on members.. <shrug>


It is an obstruction to airflow within the intake plenum. Apparently you also missed this part in the Popular Mechanics article...
THE DYNO SAYS: Both devices reduced peak horsepower by more than 10 percent.

There's a major difference between a tornado/turbonator and a swirl port head - the head can swirl air right into each combustion chamber, the tornado's swirl effect will never make it there... the air must pass through an intake manifold and each intake runner.

I don't see anything in this thread that is a personal attack. I did not call you names. Saying that you are ripping people off is a conclusion based on the actions you posted (selling these devices), and since this device does not work, in fact, you are ripping people off.

[hamiltonaudio]

I suppose, as in any case where the data is manipulated to make a point, we're missing some info huh? Ironically, none of the data you propose is supported by any before and after dyno charts are they? Perhaps PEAK HP has been hurt by 10%, but it says nothing about low end gains?

The way in which they measured "fuel economy changes" is beyond lackluster. How about test each device on a range of vehicles for a few months of real driving, recording the results? Naw...lets use a pickup, never let it outside, and let it consume a few gallons of gas on a dyno "corrected" to some speed value and extrapolate the "fuel economy change" from that.

Sorry guys....I'm not saying this product is the be-all and end-all...and as I posted originally, I've noticed a difference in my own personal car. Beyond that, I'll be keeping records on fuel economy and see where that goes.... because I feel that empirical data and a testing period longer than 20 minutes are necessary to get the REAL answer....

If it makes almost no difference, then so be it...at least I can say i tried. Beyond that, its people asking ME if I carry the Tornado...not a large advertising campaign purporting large increases in MPG so I can "rip people off" as some moderators have asserted :roll2:

bmoney

[04alyGT]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt95GT
[B]It is an obstruction to airflow within the intake plenum. Apparently you also missed this part in the Popular Mechanics article...


There's a major difference between a tornado/turbonator and a swirl port head - the head can swirl air right into each combustion chamber, the tornado's swirl effect will never make it there... the air must pass through an intake manifold and each intake runner.
:agree:

[MantaGreen97]

The whole Tornado business was some kind of religious front wasn't it? Remember the ads and all the bible lines and everything? I always thought it was just some scheme someone/some people thought up to raise money for their religion or something, lol...

[sunrunner_pei]

Why don't we take a look at what the FTC has to say on the subject: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm

While they didn't test this specific device, NO 'mixture enhancers' have ever been found to work.

Gas prices are up, and so is the volume of advertising for "gas-saving" products. When gasoline prices rise, consumers often look for ways to improve fuel efficiency. Although there are practical steps you can take to increase gas mileage, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) warns you to be wary of any gas-saving claims for automotive devices or oil and gas additives. Even for the few gas-saving products that have been found to work, the savings have been small.

The EPA evaluates or tests products to determine whether their use will result in any significant improvement or detriment to fuel economy. However, the EPA cannot say what effect gas-saving products will have on a vehicle over time because it hasn't conducted any durability tests. It's possible that some products may harm the car or may otherwise adversely affect its performance. In fact, today's vehicles' emission control systems are very sophisticated and complex. They have On Board Diagnostic features that alert the driver to problems associated with the emission control and fuel delivery systems. Retrofit products may have an adverse effect on these systems.

The best advice:

Shifting Gears: Real Money-Saving Steps
There are numerous no- or low-cost steps you can take to combat rising gas prices. The most important place to start is at the gas pump; buy only the octane level gas you need. All gas pumps must post the octane rating of the gas under the FTC's Fuel Rating Rule. Remember, the higher the octane, the higher the price. Check your owner's manual to determine the right octane level for your car.

Here are some additional tips from the EPA to help you get better gas mileage.

Drive more efficiently

* Stay within posted speed limits. The faster you drive, the more fuel you use. For example, driving at 65 miles per hour (mph), rather than 55 mph, increases fuel consumption by 20 percent. Driving at 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, increases fuel consumption by another 25 percent.
* Use overdrive gears. Overdrive gears improve the fuel economy of your car during highway driving. Your car's engine speed decreases when you use overdrive. This reduces both fuel consumption and engine wear.
* Use cruise control. Using cruise control on highway trips can help you maintain a constant speed and, in most cases, reduce your fuel consumption.
* Anticipate driving situations. If you anticipate traffic conditions and don't tailgate, you can avoid unnecessary braking and acceleration, and improve your fuel economy by 5 to 10 percent. In city driving, nearly 50 percent of the energy needed to power your car goes to acceleration. Go easy on the gas pedal and brakes. "Jack-rabbit" starts and sudden stops are wasteful.
* Avoid unnecessary idling. Turn off the engine if you anticipate a lengthy wait. No matter how efficient your car is, unnecessary idling wastes fuel, costs you money and pollutes the air.
* Combine errands. Several short trips taken from a cold start can use twice as much fuel as one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm.
* Remove excess weight from the trunk. Avoid carrying unneeded items, especially heavy ones. An extra 100 pounds in the trunk reduces a typical car's fuel economy by one to two percent.

Maintain your car

* Keep your engine tuned. Studies have shown that a poorly tuned engine can increase fuel consumption by as much as 10 to 20 percent depending on a car's condition. Follow the recommended maintenance schedule in your owner's manual; you'll save fuel and your car will run better and last longer.
* Keep your tires properly inflated and aligned. Car manufacturers must place a label in the car stating the correct tire pressure. The label usually is on the edge of the door or door jamb, in the glove box, or on the inside of the gas cap cover. If the label lists a psi (pounds per square inch) range, use the higher number to maximize your fuel efficiency. Underinflated tires cause fuel consumption to increase by six percent.
* Change your oil. Clean oil reduces wear caused by friction between moving parts and removes harmful substances from the engine. Change your oil as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.
* Check and replace air filters regularly. Your car's air filter keeps impurities in the air from damaging internal engine components. Not only will replacing a dirty air filter improve your fuel economy, it also will protect your engine. Clogged filters can cause up to a 10 percent increase in fuel consumption.

Consider buying a fuel efficient vehicle
Deciding which vehicle to buy may be the most important fuel economy decision you make. The difference between a car that gets 20 MPG (miles per gallon) and one that gets 30 MPG amounts to $3,125 over 5 years, assuming gas costs $2.50 per gallon and you drive 15,000 miles a year.

Visit www.fueleconomy.gov for more information. You’ll find gas mileage estimates and other data from EPA for 1985-2007 model year cars.

[tenspeed]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
If it makes almost no difference, then so be it...at least I can say i tried. Beyond that, its people asking ME if I carry the Tornado...not a large advertising campaign purporting large increases in MPG so I can "rip people off" as some moderators have asserted :roll2:

If people want it, sell it. If you noticed a difference in your car, then you noticed a difference.

There's plenty of other products for sale that might not work but people still buy them because they think they do.

[RazorDX]

What I have seen in proper research (not PM) indicates that different cars yield different results. If you travel a lot for work, 50 dollars for something that will save even one MPG will pay off in the long run. I'm curious to see what kind of results will be achieved on a GA. Until I have a brand new F350, I don't really care what PM says about it. I rarely drive a big new truck, and I rarely put a single gallon of fuel in my car and drive 70 miles per hour in a straight line. Therefor, I am more interested in the threadstarter's analysis than the "research" done by PM.

[eric99gt]

I'll pose a question. If this thing actually works, why have all these engineers that build the cars put something like this in to place. They're always trying to come up with more fuel efficent vehicles yet some of the most intelligent minds in the world who are designing these cars don't feel it's useful to use this in the intake system.

[sunrunner_pei]

:banghead:

This has been covered ad-nauseum. Every bit of independant research done has disproven these devices. Hell, even Mythbusters did a show about it. And you know what? Proper maintenance and good driving habits make more difference than any piece of tin obstructing your intake.

If you guys want to believe the hype that it works, be my guest. But I won't have you using these forums as a tool for spreading your delusion.

The placebo effect is powerful stuff.

[pcprophet]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
* Remove excess weight from the trunk. Avoid carrying unneeded items, especially heavy ones. An extra 100 pounds in the trunk reduces a typical car's fuel economy by one to two percent.
i was reading a news artical about garbage in the car, over time (if you dont clean your car of waste and junk) you will tend to store unwanted junk. they were saying with every 50-100 pounds extra weight is like filling up around 80 times(depending on tank size) and that you are going to be wasting 1-2 tanks of fuel carrying that extra weight. :eek:

and about this whole tornado crap, its restricting the air flow, it garbage. my teacher showed me a valve that had a piece with a curve that was located on the fillet of the valve which took half that would spin around and allow the air to mix, but this i think was on a diesel engine like a caterpillar 3116 hopefully im not confusing anyone
well with my amazing paint skills:lol: i made something that looks like what im trying to show. this will cover half the valve.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/andrewl/Engine_Valve.jpg

[RazorDX]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
:banghead:

This has been covered ad-nauseum. Every bit of independant research done has disproven these devices. Hell, even Mythbusters did a show about it. And you know what? Proper maintenance and good driving habits make more difference than any piece of tin obstructing your intake.

If you guys want to believe the hype that it works, be my guest. But I won't have you using these forums as a tool for spreading your delusion.

The placebo effect is powerful stuff.

Am I going to instantly believe it? Will I buy one? Will the placebo effect work on statistical readings?

Nah, but I'm still interested in the effect it has on a GA.

[Bart001]

I read the first 3 posts then just skipped them all and wanted to post my own 3 cents worth............. yes 3 cents lol...


ok look in theory yes you want to promote air fuel swirl... This makes for a better air fuel mixture... increasing the fuel surface area allowing it to react with the oxygen more rapidly....

Now.... I havent seen these devices but I'm guessing your installing it somewhere between the TB and Air box.....
Theres the first problem.... your swrilling the air in the wrong place... and it wont be still swrilling when it gets to valve.....

now that should tell you where you DO want to start swirlling the air WITHOUT slowing the velocity down.... just about at the injector and right to the valve.....Thats why they make Undercut Valves with a swril polish cut on them... and thats why that combustion chambers are heart shaped as to promote swirl.

So the best way to promote this kinda swirl is the Valve, Combustion chamber.... and.... my own theory is a modified rifling to the last couple inches of the intake ports.... coaxing the air to swirl more....

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
real musclecar guys will remember "swirl port" heads...same idea, different execution. I didn't realize that even moderators could assert personal attacks on members.. <shrug>

bmoney Mr Money,

Obviously you are unaware the differences between a Tornado and heads.

The Tornadois placed down stream before the throttle body. It may swirl a bit when air passes through it but then airflow passes over turbulant, acordian rubber tubing, through a throttlebody and throttle plate, and around various other sensors before it even hits the intake runner.

The throttle plate/s alone are enough to near completely disrupt any 'swirl' effect it may cause. Not to mention as soon as the air enters the intake and is distributed into each port the 'swirl' it may cause will be completely loss and air will pretty much be sucked through in a normal manner.

So far all this gadget has done was twist airflow into the intake, big deal no gain there. Because where swirling air would be benifical is in the lower intake where the fuel injector is, but by the time it gets there, the valve disrupts vilocity and air flow, not to mention everything before hand anything that could have been gain will be loss.

So basically it's a waste of money, snake oil, a scam. TH epricnicple of it may work in theroy, but when looked at in a common application it's obvious why it doesn't and simply won't.

And before you think I'm going off a uneducated guess with a product your wrong. One was installed on my friend's wife's old Maxima and just over a week later he needed to replace a $400+ MAF sensor. And no, the company did not stand by their lamo warrenty either.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by RazorDX
Am I going to instantly believe it? Will I buy one? Will the placebo effect work on statistical readings?

Nah, but I'm still interested in the effect it has on a GA.

We already know that it doesn't work on a GA engine. Even if this wasn't previously tested, there's nothing special about our particular GM engines that would make this device work on them, but not other engines.

[Rolm]

Bull nonsense The crap does not work. Period If you want to through some cash away it will be better spent given it to your local hospital. Later

[Glowin97]

I had it, all i can say is that it did absolutely nothing. i didn't feel an increase of power or a decrease. HOWEVER, in our neighbors Blazer and my dads Firebird Formula, the both said they felt a difference, but in by 97 Grand Am SE i felt nothing.

[Peyman]

I've had one in my car, felt a loss of power, didn't notice anything in gas mileage, so i took it out and poo'd on it

[PontiacGT]

I've only heard bad things about it personally, but have no experience with it.