screwed over by viper

[jgorb]

i bought a 160xv remote start keyless entry for my 95 ga off of ebay, and was told it did not come with a instruction manual but one could be downloaded on their website... so i went to their web site only to realize it cant be found, so i called customer service and asked for an installation guide and they told me i couldnt have one because i am not a certified tech. so as of right now i dont have a guide on how to install this thing, i only have a wiring diagram for my car and i am stuck:( i asked a local dealer how much it would be for them to put it in and they said around 200 bucks...my whole idea was to get it done cheap, i only spent 70 on the unit and was looking to install it myself since i have installed many others, but with out a guide it seems to be quite difficult
any ideas out there?

-just

[Matt95GT]

Are you positive DEI's site doesn't have a "discontinued products" section? I often only find product manuals there, as electronics have short life cycles.

Otherwise, I haven't purchased any electronics in the last several years unless I've downloaded and read the manual before purchase. I specifically avoided a few brands of alarm for that reason, cause they wouldn't allow any "non-installer" to download the wiring diagram and programming instructions, although I was able to find all the DEI brand alarms with ease. Beware of certain eBay auctions for that reason... I got a brand name alarm/keyless/remote start for the same price, brand new.

[car audio dave]

first off, let it be a lesson that you get what you pay for. you need to research first.

secondly, try a search. go onto the car audio forums and search, then i you cant find it, ask if anyone can help you.

you are 17 and youve installed many remote starters? i wouldnt trust more professional installers to do it right, let alone myself (and im an installer). keep in mind that you need to bypass theftlock which is a separate thing from the alarm itself. i tihnk the part number is like 555t or something.

[MantaGreen97]

Sending a PM about the install manual ;)

[hamiltonaudio]

any directed dealer can provide you with a link to the Direct Techs website and the PDF manual for that unit. You just have to find a dealer or installer nice enuf :) i would help, but I

1. am not a DEI dealer
2. detest DEI with a passion

<wink>

bmoney

[MantaGreen97]

^You don't have to be a dealer or even know a dealer actually, but I won't get into any details hee hee...

[hamiltonaudio]

yeah, you just need a stolen (I mean "borrowed") user/pass....<yawn> old news my friend. I still hate DEI :)

bmoney

[MantaGreen97]

Don't need a password of any kind either, lol. But enough about that.

[inferno]

lol this is bad news. lol bet atleast you get the manual. lol

[Wallflower]

I just happen to have the password onto the Directechs site ... and downloaded the .pdf for this model.

DEI, nor Viper, did anything against you jgorb. You bought the unit off eBay, certainly not from an authorized DEI dealer. They don't have to lift a finger to help you. Just shows what happens when people want to cut a corner and save a buck on the net.

PM me ... you can have it.

[RisingX2004]

you get what you pay for in th electronics world, as mentioned above. Dont try to cut corners

For my Crimestopper unit, (which they are very dependable) for the reomte start part, I had to get around the Passlock 1 system and It was pretty easy. I could have bought the module that would have made it super easy, but I used two relays, resistors, and a few diodes and it works great and was easy to, just took an extra 20 minutes. I am not sure that this will work for Viper units tho, but I dont see why it wouldnt...

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by RisingX2004
you get what you pay for in th electronics world, as mentioned above. Dont try to cut corners

I agree with the first part (you get what you pay for) but I fail to see how that really applies in this context.

Because he's just trying to get the exact same product, just at a lower price.

The "you get what you pay for" adage really doesn't apply. If you can buy the exact same electronics item for say $200 when it's worth $500 (just a random example) is not related to "you get what you pay for". That's just considered smart and/or getting a deal.

Now if you're talking about installation, warranty, or other such things, then yeah you have a point.

But if we're just talking about "you get what you pay for" at it's base meaning, then that's unrelated. If anything someone smart will want to get that same thing at the lowest price possible.

If we put the other things aside and assume everything equal. who's the smarter person the one paying $500 or the one paying $200 for the exact same item?

In this case, provided you actually know how to install an alarm/RS properly, you're better off buying it for low eBay-type prices. Even without warranty, if you have to replace once you're still at least equal to buying "authorised" :roll2:

As for the other person that said that DEI/Viper aren't responsible/don't owe you anything, personally I think that's nonsense. Just because it's not like you're buying a counterfeit product, the thing is still made by DEI, regardless. It's not like you're trying to get a manual from them for a product they never made :roll2:

I don't agree with most of the stupid "authorised-only" aspects of consumer electronics. It's total BS just to make a buck, IMO. I guess there is the case that most people are clueless and don't know what they're doing (and I'd actually agree there because most people don't). But otherwise, those policies are just a way to weasel out of the obligations of looking after your product IMO.

Say if a product was prone to catch fire or something (in terms of the product itself) you better bet that in a civil action, regardless of whether it was purchased "authorised" or not, the manufacturer is still going to be assessed part of the damages caused, in any common law jurisdiction. So why shouldn't they also supply details like install info like wiring diagrams for the product??? Given, the purchaser should be sure they're getting all the documentation in the sale, but it's just as likely for them to get a sealed product box with stuff missing as is someone buying authorised....

[hamiltonaudio]

without reading much more than the first 3 lines, I think I know where you went wrong Manta. Not sure if you're aware, but DEI has had SERIOUS issues with "back door dealers" and "under the table stuff" for a while now...its called grey-goods. Transshipped without consent of the mfg....gets into the hands of ebayers and such and gets whored out all over the net. There's a BIG one happening right /now/ involving 10's of thousands of dollars of Orion product (for those that don't know, DEI owns Orion) sold via ebay and NEVER shipped...lawsuits entailing, people fired, etc...its not good :(

What do big companies do in this regard? DO NOT SUPPORT THE PRODUCT. Period. Check out other major brand sites that have had the same issues (Alpine and MTX have been hit hard)...they all have "are you sure you got AUTHENTIC gear?" pages on their sites...for this VERY reason! DEI owes you NOTHING if you didn't buy the product from a dealer that they support. How do they support their dealers? With training, sales materials, displays, and the famous Directechs info site.... in return the dealer gets the PRIVELEDGE of selling a world renowned product with a superior warranty. Seems good right?

This is how the dealer concept works...so when you don't buy the product from a dealer (who, really, is the one who should be supporting you) DEI don't want anything to do with it. They don't care if you bought it used, found it in the street or got it from a grey-goods idiot on flea-gay. To them, its all the same... and if you look REALLY close in the literature, warranty and support (worded very clearly) are only offered to the ORIGINAL PURCHASER AND INSTALLER. The minute I sell that product USED, it is no longer the original purchaser and the company owes the next person NOTHING in terms of support....

So in the end manta, its not just the product you're buying is it? Its the support of a dealer and the warranty protection it provides....THATS the corner you're cutting by buying stuff on flea-bay. And yes, flea-bay etailers often offer "warranties", but they are not MANUFACTURERS warranties...they are the 30-90 day "return it to US and maybe we might give you another one" warranty.... certainly NOT what I'd call piece of mind on a product that is normally warranted for life, wouldn't you agree ;)

Many people find comfort in bypassing the brick and mortar shops in favour of online purchases for one reason - and thats price. And to some extent I don't blame them. But boy oh boy does the price ever come back to haunt you when you have no support like a brick and mortar shop. This is one of things I pride myself on...my customers are my friends, and they come back again and again. Why? Because I take care of them <wink> Something flea-gay will NEVER do....



bmoney

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
There's a BIG one happening right /now/ involving 10's of thousands of dollars of Orion product (for those that don't know, DEI owns Orion) sold via ebay and NEVER shipped...lawsuits entailing, people fired, etc...its not good :(
Are you talking about the whole thing with Shane? I'm pretty sure most of that was not on eBay (some was) but most of it was forum sales to my understanding, anyway...

As for the rest of the stuff about manufacturers and authorised dealers I agree with you in most respects, but I can't say to boycott that manufacturer in all cases. I know I was hard on Compustar before (sorry, lol) but most other companies you usually get support but no warranty.

With DEI, the lack of providing manuals is just stupid, I agree. But at least you can still get them. I know you don't like Viper/DEI stuff but it is fairly good quality at least, IMO anyway.

I still support buying on eBay, almost to the extreme. Because I've done a lot of shopping (for stuff like electronics) on there over the last 7 years or so and everything's always turned out pretty good, and a LOT cheaper (especially considering Canadian retail :( ).

[jgorb]

yeah i know im kind of young to be doing that stuff but my dad is a mechanic and i helped him out one day putting a remote started on my moms car and i picked it up from there .. next my dad went to install one on his truck and he let me do as much as i could and suprisingly i managed to get everything wired and programmed however i couldnt find the tach wire i had to get help for that but after that i installed 3 alarm systems on my friends cars

as for the research...i did quite a lot of research on this product and read reviews for it and from what i read it was a decent unit it had its set backs.. of course i had my doubts about buying off of ebay, there is just something that worries me about ebay...but anyway i never read anthing that said no manual included... so i did learn a lesson from ebay

i tried going to a local shop to try and grab a manual off of them but they were hesitant to give me one, my guess is they wanted my business and make money instead of handing the maual over

thanks for the info and replies

[Wallflower]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
without reading much more than the first 3 lines, I think I know where you went wrong Manta. Not sure if you're aware, but DEI has had SERIOUS issues with "back door dealers" and "under the table stuff" for a while now...its called grey-goods. Transshipped without consent of the mfg....gets into the hands of ebayers and such and gets whored out all over the net. There's a BIG one happening right /now/ involving 10's of thousands of dollars of Orion product (for those that don't know, DEI owns Orion) sold via ebay and NEVER shipped...lawsuits entailing, people fired, etc...its not good :(

What do big companies do in this regard? DO NOT SUPPORT THE PRODUCT. Period. Check out other major brand sites that have had the same issues (Alpine and MTX have been hit hard)...they all have "are you sure you got AUTHENTIC gear?" pages on their sites...for this VERY reason! DEI owes you NOTHING if you didn't buy the product from a dealer that they support. How do they support their dealers? With training, sales materials, displays, and the famous Directechs info site.... in return the dealer gets the PRIVELEDGE of selling a world renowned product with a superior warranty. Seems good right?

This is how the dealer concept works...so when you don't buy the product from a dealer (who, really, is the one who should be supporting you) DEI don't want anything to do with it. They don't care if you bought it used, found it in the street or got it from a grey-goods idiot on flea-gay. To them, its all the same... and if you look REALLY close in the literature, warranty and support (worded very clearly) are only offered to the ORIGINAL PURCHASER AND INSTALLER. The minute I sell that product USED, it is no longer the original purchaser and the company owes the next person NOTHING in terms of support....

So in the end manta, its not just the product you're buying is it? Its the support of a dealer and the warranty protection it provides....THATS the corner you're cutting by buying stuff on flea-bay. And yes, flea-bay etailers often offer "warranties", but they are not MANUFACTURERS warranties...they are the 30-90 day "return it to US and maybe we might give you another one" warranty.... certainly NOT what I'd call piece of mind on a product that is normally warranted for life, wouldn't you agree ;)

Many people find comfort in bypassing the brick and mortar shops in favour of online purchases for one reason - and thats price. And to some extent I don't blame them. But boy oh boy does the price ever come back to haunt you when you have no support like a brick and mortar shop. This is one of things I pride myself on...my customers are my friends, and they come back again and again. Why? Because I take care of them <wink> Something flea-gay will NEVER do....



bmoney

Preach on my Brother .... PREACH !!!

[Chris76]

All you had to do was type it into a seach engine.. I found it on yahoo and didnt need any passwords to look at the manual either.. Your manual (http://www.directechs.com/guides/manuals/og/viper/G562V_6-03.pdf)

You may however take this as a learning lesson and buy legit stuff in the future..

[jgorb]

i needed the installation manual not the owners manual, this manual was included with the system

[Chris76]

OK sorry try this one then. http://www.directechs.com/guides/manuals/ig/viper/N562V_6-03.pdf#search='160xv%20install%20manual

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
I don't agree with most of the stupid "authorised-only" aspects of consumer electronics. It's total BS just to make a buck, IMO. I guess there is the case that most people are clueless and don't know what they're doing (and I'd actually agree there because most people don't). But otherwise, those policies are just a way to weasel out of the obligations of looking after your product IMO.


I agree... in the internet age I don't see why they can't provide the install instructions for the general public. Many companies do stand behind their products, even if not purchased from an authorized source... and those are the companies I tend to do my business with in the future.

[jgorb]

got the installation manual and have mainly everything wired up except the headlights so they flash when i lock and unlock my car i have a feeling its going to be a little tricky to get this wire... also where is the best place to place the module?

just

[Jibo]

Full agreeance with matt on this one.

Perosnally I bought a BRAND NEW Viper 791VX or whatever unit it is off of ebay last summer. It cost me under $200 US, where in the stores here they wanted $500 canadian just for the unit, plus instalaltion on top of that. This is the full features two way paging remote start and alarm unit. I managed to track down the manual for the installation. And proceeded to wire it myself. And I had zero problems, except that I was missing one wire harness (for the keyless entry), I contacted the ebay user that sold me the unit (she works at her parents car audio / video shop, and sells some of th eunits on ebay), she had the missing piece sent out to me within a week. So while I can see why DEI doesnt include the install directions so that every average joe goes and trys to install the unit. They should put the manual in the box still with a huge disclaimer explaining that if you do not have it prfessionally installed by an authorized DEI installer then you have no warantty or support etc. Now for me, this works out fine because I am well aware of what I am doing when it comes to electronics. and am fully aware that if somethins screws up, I am the one to blame. My father had the same alarm/remote starter installed in his truck in a shop here in town and it cost him $750 with the install. Same unit. Same features. Same everything, only difference was $$ and he has somewhere to go if he has problems, where as I am stuck on my own if there is a problem.....which *knock on wood*, absolutely zero problems with it thus far.

[hamiltonaudio]

Originally posted by jgorb
got the installation manual and have mainly everything wired up except the headlights so they flash when i lock and unlock my car i have a feeling its going to be a little tricky to get this wire... also where is the best place to place the module?

just

you don't want to use the unit to flash headlights - its only about a 10A relay in there meant for the parklamps only....you'll be popping fuses and blowing relays if you want to flash the headlights. Instead, use the parklamp trigger and wire up a relay to do the job.

as for placement - there really is only one place to put it - under the dash :)

bmoney

[hamiltonaudio]

Originally posted by Chris76
All you had to do was type it into a seach engine.. I found it on yahoo and didnt need any passwords to look at the manual either.. Your manual (http://www.directechs.com/guides/manuals/og/viper/G562V_6-03.pdf)

You may however take this as a learning lesson and buy legit stuff in the future..

despite DEIs best efforts, the back end links to their manuals still leak out :) look at the url....now try going to www.directechs.com and finding your manual the "correct" way.....

;) you can find information on bomb making and plane hijacking on the web too! Its great! <shrugs> I don't disagree with anyone here - I'm just stating WHY DEI does what they do...

bmoney

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by jgorb
got the installation manual and have mainly everything wired up except the headlights so they flash when i lock and unlock my car i have a feeling its going to be a little tricky to get this wire... also where is the best place to place the module?

just

As mentioned, use the parking lights, no the headlights. Here:

PARKING LIGHTS ( + ) BROWN (+) @ HEADLIGHT SWITCH

I recall tracing that wire down the harness lower and tapping it under the dash rather than all the way up by the switch itself.

[Jibo]

Originally posted by Matt95GT
As mentioned, use the parking lights, no the headlights. Here:

PARKING LIGHTS ( + ) BROWN (+) @ HEADLIGHT SWITCH

I recall tracing that wire down the harness lower and tapping it under the dash rather than all the way up by the switch itself.

I believe it was the same wire on my 96, but I was sick of having my head down by the pedals at that point so I just tapped in closer to the switch ;)


:thumbup:

Glad you got the manual and hopefully you will be able to finish this install

[Chris76]

Originally posted by hamiltonaudio
despite DEIs best efforts, the back end links to their manuals still leak out :) look at the url....now try going to www.directechs.com and finding your manual the "correct" way.....

;) you can find information on bomb making and plane hijacking on the web too! Its great! <shrugs> I don't disagree with anyone here - I'm just stating WHY DEI does what they do...

bmoney

The url said directech so I figured it was from the site. I was able to get both the install and owners manual.. Who knows nothing is safe with the internet anymore..

[nineteen88ga]

wow no one picked up on this earlier but in refference to an earlier post for future refference only the 96-05 Grand Ams had Passlock and will need the 555L in order for the remote start to work with the car. 95 and earlier GA's were straight forward. :)

PS I Like DEI. :)

[jgorb]

i accidently wired the park lamp lights to the windshield wipers so i hit the unlock button and my wipers came on for a few swipes...thought it would be funny if i could get it to spray some washer fluid everytime i unlocked the car so i would have a clean windshield.. very stupid idea i know i just found it to be funny

[nineteen88ga]

wow........

Its cool you want to learn on your own, but you really should test the wires your looking for with a DMM (Digital Multi Meter). Just hooking up to random wires could eventually lead to damaging the Rem. Start unit or the vehicle.

[hamiltonaudio]

yep - BIG WOW. Jgorb - I don't think you realize (even a little bit) just how serious this is. Its funny now with the wipers, but when you blow an ECM or burn an important circuit, the THOUSANDS in repairs won't be so funny.

I strongly suggest:

1. stop being a kid about it, get serious, and use a DMM to TEST your wires before ever baring the copper

2. let a PROFESSIONAL do the job - it'll be clean, tight, function correctly and no damage will be done in the process.

Sorry dood - I just hate seeing this stuff....cause your next thread will be "how come my my car won't start" or "so...I burnt the main harness...now what?"

bmoney

[jgorb]

well now i feel like i did all the work on this security system for nothing... yesterday i was given my uncles 2006 black GTO however it was under some circumstances that werent the greatest i wont go into detail... but im going to keep my grand am i put to much work into it to just give it away

[Jibo]

:roll2: Okay?....