Maintenance Questions

[joehawkui]

I have a few questions on maintenance of my 2002 Grand Am SE1 (3400 V6) that I bought brand new in September 2001 (right now about 108,000 miles) for whoever can answer them. I tried finding the answers through other posts, but I don't think I saw the answers to the specfic questions that I have relating to my specific situation. I am trying to learn more about my car, as I'm not very mechanically inclined (they didn't teach about cars in my accounting classes in college!).

1) I have seen many posts talking about Seafoam and how well it can work for a car. I have seen the method that people have suggested (gas tank, oil, and through a vacuum valve). I asked someone that seems to know a lot about cars, and he told me that he wouldn't recommend that I use it in the oil and vacuum valve since I don't know much about cars. He said it is really good stuff, but that I should only use it in my gas because I could ruin the spark plugs since I don't know what I am doing. I just recently replaced the spark plugs, and I wouldn't want to have to have them replaced again. Does this sound accurate, and what would the risks be for using it? My car seems to be running pretty well, and I have not cleaned my engine ever. I don't know where to look to see if it needs it.

2) I am at about the time where I am supposed to replace my coolant (owner's manual says 5 years or 150,000 miles for DEX-COOL). I had received an offer for a free winter inspection, and they tested the coolant as part of the inspection. They tested the coolant, and said that it tested to protect at -34 degrees and that the pH is perfect (not completely sure what that means). It tested like it is new coolant. This is probably because I have had two different coolant leaks during the time that I have owned the car.

I had a LIM leak at about 75,000 miles I think and a head gasket leak at about 102,000 miles. The coolant has never actually been replaced, but the mechanic doing the inspection thought that maybe so much coolant had been lost because of those leaks it might have been mostly new coolant. It has always had DEX-COOL put in it, except for one time before I had the LIM leak fixed, probably about 74,000, my now father-in-law (I recently got married) was looking at the leak and put some of the green stuff in it to top it off. I didn't realize at the time that it wasn't the right coolant. The mechanic that did the inspection didn't think I needed to replace the coolant.

What do you think based on everything that I have mentioned? I know that part of replacing the coolant is putting a flush in there to clean everything out. Would you recommend doing it now to make sure it all gets cleaned out, even though the coolant in there seems fine? If so, would you recommend taking it somewhere to have the power flush machines do it (I wouldn't want the the power from the machines to cause another leak)? Would I be able to do this by myself using the method listed on the Prestone web site? Is the drain plug hard to find?

Sorry that I have rambled on in this message. I want to make sure I am doing the right things for my car without messing something up. I appreciate any help you can give me!!

Joe

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by joehawkui
1) I have seen many posts talking about Seafoam and how well it can work for a car. I have seen the method that people have suggested (gas tank, oil, and through a vacuum valve). I asked someone that seems to know a lot about cars, and he told me that he wouldn't recommend that I use it in the oil and vacuum valve since I don't know much about cars.
LOL well that one's a little out in left-field if you ask me. Just because there isn't that much to using the product in the oil and through the intake. If you can follow [rather simple] directions and have some basic knowledge of what you're doing, it isn't really that hard. There isn't that much to "know" to use Seafoam. If you put it in the oil though, you'll have to change the oil (or have it changed) after a few hundred miles/kms, but that's about all there is to know really.

You can use it only in the gas tank if you want, but you won't get the full benefits of it.

Originally posted by joehawkui
My car seems to be running pretty well, and I have not cleaned my engine ever. I don't know where to look to see if it needs it.
Well it's better if you don't think you need it/your engine runs fine than not because then you can use the product to avoid future problems instead of trying to use it to fix existing ones.

There is the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" adage but in this case it's more maintenance than trying to fix something. If your engine is running fine you can still use it, but you're likely not going to notice any difference at all. However you'll have the peace of mind you've cleaned things up in there before they got a chance to get bad enough to cause problems ;) That's the way I see it anyway. Car has 108,000 miles which is a good amount so I'd say it's a good time to use Seafoam if you've never used any kind of top-end cleaner on the engine.

Originally posted by joehawkui
2) I am at about the time where I am supposed to replace my coolant (owner's manual says 5 years or 150,000 miles for DEX-COOL). I had a LIM leak at about 75,000 miles I think and a head gasket leak at about 102,000 miles. The coolant has never actually been replaced...
Are you sure about that? If you had either a LIM gasket replacement or a head gasket replacement, it's almost certain that the coolant was replaced at those repair instances. I don't think many mechanics would do those repairs without also doing a flush/fill (or at least a drain/fill) of the existing coolant in the vehicle. At the very least most of the coolant would have been replaced, if for some reason the mechanic chose not to replace it all. It would be a bit strange for them to re-use the same drained coolant in replacing a head gasket!

So I'm pretty sure the coolant would have been replaced and the last time would have been at 102,000 miles when you had the head gasket problem. That's probably why your coolant is in good shape (good pH, good concentration/freeze protection). So yeah if it was replaced then it's good for quite a while to come :)

Other than pH and concentration testing, how does a sample of coolant drained from the rad look? If it's all nice and clean, brightly coloured, with no particles or dirt in there floating around then that's another confirmation of good coolant. If the pH and concentration tested good but the coolant was dirty, then a replacement would probably be warranted/required.

As for the green stuff put in there previously, after a LIM gasket replacement and a head gasket replacement, I'm sure that coolant is long gone from the system, so I wouldn't worry too much about that either.

Originally posted by joehawkui
I know that part of replacing the coolant is putting a flush in there to clean everything out. Would you recommend doing it now to make sure it all gets cleaned out, even though the coolant in there seems fine?
Use flushes with caution. They are usually pretty harsh/corrosive chemicals and should usually only be used when a condition or problem with the cooling system (blockage, excessive scale, etc.) is noted. Otherwise you should actually never use a flush product, but instead just flush out the system with clean water (preferrably distilled but tap will do for just the flushing portion of the replacement).

Originally posted by joehawkui
Is the drain plug hard to find?
No not at all, however given what you've described already I don't think you actually need to change the coolant, if I'm getting the order of details correct...

[Colin]

IMO , Dex Cool should be replaced long before 150,000 miles regardless of what the owners manual says , it is also silicate free coolant and should not be mixed with coolants containing silicates (ie , green stuff ) If the two are mixed your warranty will be void and the coolant life will be reduced to 2 yrs. ( if it lasts that long ) ... have a nice day :D

[joehawkui]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
LOL well that one's a little out in left-field if you ask me. Just because there isn't that much to using the product in the oil and through the intake. If you can follow [rather simple] directions and have some basic knowledge of what you're doing, it isn't really that hard. There isn't that much to "know" to use Seafoam. If you put it in the oil though, you'll have to change the oil (or have it changed) after a few hundred miles/kms, but that's about all there is to know really.

You can use it only in the gas tank if you want, but you won't get the full benefits of it.


Well it's better if you don't think you need it/your engine runs fine than not because then you can use the product to avoid future problems instead of trying to use it to fix existing ones.

There is the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" adage but in this case it's more maintenance than trying to fix something. If your engine is running fine you can still use it, but you're likely not going to notice any difference at all. However you'll have the peace of mind you've cleaned things up in there before they got a chance to get bad enough to cause problems ;) That's the way I see it anyway. Car has 108,000 miles which is a good amount so I'd say it's a good time to use Seafoam if you've never used any kind of top-end cleaner on the engine.

Are you sure about that? If you had either a LIM gasket replacement or a head gasket replacement, it's almost certain that the coolant was replaced at those repair instances. I don't think many mechanics would do those repairs without also doing a flush/fill (or at least a drain/fill) of the existing coolant in the vehicle. At the very least most of the coolant would have been replaced, if for some reason the mechanic chose not to replace it all. It would be a bit strange for them to re-use the same drained coolant in replacing a head gasket!

So I'm pretty sure the coolant would have been replaced and the last time would have been at 102,000 miles when you had the head gasket problem. That's probably why your coolant is in good shape (good pH, good concentration/freeze protection). So yeah if it was replaced then it's good for quite a while to come :)

Other than pH and concentration testing, how does a sample of coolant drained from the rad look? If it's all nice and clean, brightly coloured, with no particles or dirt in there floating around then that's another confirmation of good coolant. If the pH and concentration tested good but the coolant was dirty, then a replacement would probably be warranted/required.

As for the green stuff put in there previously, after a LIM gasket replacement and a head gasket replacement, I'm sure that coolant is long gone from the system, so I wouldn't worry too much about that either.


Use flushes with caution. They are usually pretty harsh/corrosive chemicals and should usually only be used when a condition or problem with the cooling system (blockage, excessive scale, etc.) is noted. Otherwise you should actually never use a flush product, but instead just flush out the system with clean water (preferrably distilled but tap will do for just the flushing portion of the replacement).


No not at all, however given what you've described already I don't think you actually need to change the coolant, if I'm getting the order of details correct...

I think the thing that worries me about Seafoam is that he said it could ruin my spark plugs since I don't know what I am doing and that I should have a professional mechanic do it. I have seen some references towards that in other posts and searching other message boards for other types of cars, but I couldn't ever find a definite answer. Just about a thousand miles or so, I had them replaced with the platinum plugs that are supposed to go 100,000 miles, so I definitely don't want to ruin them and have to pay to get them again. What do you have to say about that? Also, how often should a complete cleaning using Seafoam be done?

I'm not sure if they drained/replaced all of the coolant or not when I got the head gasket replacement. In looking at the invoice, they charged me $21 just for coolant (along with a million other things), so I am assuming they had to put in quite a bit. It doesn't say how much though. I probably should call the place that fixed it to find out exactly what they did. If they didn't actually drain/replace all of the coolant and just filled it up after they finished the work, does the system need to be drained just so it can be cleaned/flushed out? If they didn't do that when they did the work, then it has never been done. Also, are there any risks of the leaks coming back at some point?

Thanks!!

Joe

[ChevelleSSLS6]

ph is acidity/alkalinity of a substance. pure water is 7, or neutral.

hmmm... I'd have it flushed really well and converted to greenstuff. I've heard of people having issues with the dexcool, or go to napa or another parts place where people know cars and ask for a compatable with green pink coolant.

[joehawkui]

Originally posted by joehawkui
I think the thing that worries me about Seafoam is that he said it could ruin my spark plugs since I don't know what I am doing and that I should have a professional mechanic do it. I have seen some references towards that in other posts and searching other message boards for other types of cars, but I couldn't ever find a definite answer. Just about a thousand miles or so, I had them replaced with the platinum plugs that are supposed to go 100,000 miles, so I definitely don't want to ruin them and have to pay to get them again. What do you have to say about that? Also, how often should a complete cleaning using Seafoam be done?

I'm not sure if they drained/replaced all of the coolant or not when I got the head gasket replacement. In looking at the invoice, they charged me $21 just for coolant (along with a million other things), so I am assuming they had to put in quite a bit. It doesn't say how much though. I probably should call the place that fixed it to find out exactly what they did. If they didn't actually drain/replace all of the coolant and just filled it up after they finished the work, does the system need to be drained just so it can be cleaned/flushed out? If they didn't do that when they did the work, then it has never been done. Also, are there any risks of the leaks coming back at some point?

Thanks!!

Joe

Is there anyone that can answer my questions?

[Gimli]

Originally posted by ChevelleSSLS6
I'd have it flushed really well and converted to greenstuff.

Worst. Recommendation. Ever.

Keep the fluids the car was designed for in there.

[rixGAphx]

*Cliff's Notes* Your car is fine, just keep an eye (and nose) tuned for leaks.
Originally posted by joehawkui
Is there anyone that can answer my questions?
Yup.

1. You learned everything you need to know about cars in your accounting classes:
* Go to an expert (a reputable shop).
* Pay them the going price for competent work. :banghead:
:D :D

Automotive mechanics isn't rocket science, but it's a lot harder than making toast in the morning.
Many people have an aptitude for it and 'naturally' know what's going on, others learn enough by osmosis or the internet to do a lot of stuff.
Others can't.

You're right in coming here with your questions.
We'll help with the questions, but what you're asking for help doing (seafoam, coolant flush) is beyond us to e-teach with 100% reliability that you won't end-up blowing the motor.

Ever look under your hood? See the things that are Yellow: Those are the things that you, an untrained car owner, should check.
Everything else: Go to a community college and take "Auto Ownership for Dummies".
You'll know a lot more than you do now, and may even know enough to tackle a coolant fluch following Prestone bottle directions.

Not meaning to be rough here, but there's a reason shops charge a lot for labor:
Their tools and equipment are major capital investments, they have 33% direct labor overhead like anybody else, they have general OHP, their mechanics are skilled and experienced (and they prolly have low-cost accountants who don't help them very much :D :D ).
* * *

Now, :deep breath:

2. SeaFoam is great stuff, and your engine would benefit from it IMO at this age; mebbe 5% milage increase.

How frequently during a car's life should it be used?
Its purpose is to dissolve excess carbon build-up in the cylinders.
Modern Fuel Injected engines don't GET much excess carbon, so the 'benefit' is MUCH less than for an old-fashioned carbureted engine.
Mebbe every 75k miles for your engine. That's a strong guess.

Do NOT use it yourself IMO (I agree with your 'somebody'), since your engine is kind tempermental about having pure liquid poured into it while running.
You don't risk 'ruining' the spark plugs, but they will get pretty dirty for about 50 miles; usually the crud burns off, but you *may* have to remove them to clean them.
With your engine, this is very simple for the front 3 plugs, and a royal, time-consuming PITA for the rear 3.
Actually costs more to remove/clean/reinstall than to remove/replace with new.

Also, pouring it in thru the large vac port (for the Brake Booster) concentrates the stuff at the nearest cylinders, and is less effective at the others.
A shop will know how to CAREFULLY introduce the SeaFoam thru the throttle body, without damaging expensive components.

Get a price for this professional service, and make a cost-based decision.
BTW, you will gain ONLY about 5% horsepower and milage (at the maximum) from a 'top-end cleaning' like seafoam.
So from a cost standpoint, how much is the value of 5% gasoline savings, amortized over 75k miles when it needs repeating (therefore, 37.5k half-life for the benefit).

IMO, don't bother; don't spend the time and money.
* *

3. Coolant drain/change.
The drain plug on our radiators is often a PITA to find/open/close. Most of us just remove the bottom of the lower radiator hose, and let everything drain into a large basin.

You could strictly follow the directions on a bottle of Prestone Flush, and do a fine job.

You should stay with the Orange Stuff, 'extended-life antifreeze' such as DexCool.
Remember you must 'burp' your engine when you refill.

Trust me: When your head gaskets were replaced, so much of the old coolant was lost that you essentially have brand-new antifreeze from that day forward.
$21 is about right for one jug, including the environmental disposal fee for the old stuff.

I would not worry about your coolant (unless a leak is detected, either by puddle, smell, or needing 'topping-off').
The shop's testing proved it is fine.

4. Is there danger of future coolant leaks?
Absolutely.
* LIM gasket (again).
* Hoses.
* Cracked reservoir.
* Failed seal on reservoir cap (don't overtighten!!!).
* Cracked plastic radiator side tank.
* Cracked plastic hose nipple on heater core.
* Worn waterpump seal.
* Cracked waterpump housing.
* Head gasket (as a result of neglecting one or more of the above).
So keep an eye, and nose, tuned for leaks.

Good luck,
-Rick

[ChevelleSSLS6]

Originally posted by Gimli
Worst. Recommendation. Ever.

Keep the fluids the car was designed for in there.

If there's even a smidgen of pink left in there when adding green, it'll turn to jello and that's very, very, very bad. And expensive too.

[BPBAIR]

keep what your car is designed for. its easier and simpler than alternative :>

[GreenGA98]

yea, they replace the coolant when they do the LIM, and headgasket
it wouldn't make sense not to



short and simple answer:lol: