Replacing hub assembly

[bballr4567]

Ok so I knew it was bad when I got the car and well Im going to change it this weekend. The questions I got is Im going to get the Timken bearings and replace both of them at the same time. Should I go ahead and do both or just do the one that is going out??

Searched and really couldnt get a good answer really.

[rixGAphx]

Are you talking about the front hubs?

I would only replace the one that is known to be faulty, unless I needed/wanted the dependability for extended out-of-town trips.

Thing is, the other can easily last another 30k miles (or fail next week).

I wouldn't buy an 'extra', and not use it; unless I wanted the semi-reliability of having the part when I breakdown out-of-state.

[bballr4567]

Well its just that Ive heard that its better to change them in pairs. This car has only had them changed once at 40k and now its got 136k. Sorry I didnt add that in the last post.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by bballr4567
it's just that I've heard that it's better to change them in pairs.100% accurate for BRAKES, they MUST be done in 'axle sets'.

Highly recommended for Tie Rod ends (since they tie the two tires together).

Doesn't apply to ball joints, bushings, springs, struts, hubs, bearings, CV joints, or other stuff, when the reason for replacing the one is damage/early failure.
Unless actual inspection (of the 'mirror' component) reveals esxcessive wear or damage to the specific component.

Example:
If the reason for replacing the one (say a strut) is that it is leaking, the other non-leaking strut can remain.
Unless it's very old, and 'jounce testing' indicates that it doesn't perform well anymore; then replace the pair.

If you insist on the finest, near-sportscar handling, then:
* You should replace everything in pairs, so that right-reaction is as crisp and consistent as left-reaction.
* You shouldn't own a GA :D :D

But for hubs on a sedan, it isn't necessary.
You really won't notice any handling difference, nor milage.

[bballr4567]

Well Ive never replaced a hub assembly like the Grand Am's. Just being curious and glad to know that I dont have to drop the extra $115 for the other assembly!!!

[GrandAmMN]

I don't mean to take over your thread, but I have a '92 with 128,000 miles, and the hubs are original. How do you know if you should think about replacing them. Unless the wheel seizes up, falls off or something strange like that, what is a 'better get it replaced test' for this part?

[bballr4567]

Well I want to get it replaced because it is making a loud low humming noise at any speed now. When it first started it was just doing it at highway speeds but has slowly gotten worse. I know that its probably effecting my gas mileage too.


Also when I turn the right the car stops the humming. That means the left bearing needs to be replaced right?

[GrandAmMN]

That humming seems to make sense. I don't think I have that - but with the car's age and mileage I can't help be suspicious of a any part!

[untamedChap]

I just had a mechanic change my left hub assembly and that didn't resolve my humming problem, but it did fix my TRAC light which was staying on all the time.

It would now hum everytime I would drive straight or turn left (any speed really).

So, yesterday, I changed the right side hub bearin assembly with a new NAPA one and it stopped the humming noise.

When I purhcased the part from NAPA, I found that the hub assemblies from NAPA had a LIFETIME warranty on them. Which is great since I hear everyone replacing theirs all the time.

Since you replaced them once already, you may want to see if they are still under warranty. You may need your recepit though.

Likely, if one bearing assembly has gone, the other one will go soon after. However, it could be a faulty bearing too.. So, your call - if you change just one, you could be back under the car in a week or maybe year if the other one goes.

Personally, I'd change one and wait until the other side goes out. I'd be curious how much longer the other one lasts. Ohh, make sure you replace the correct side too!

-> LEFT HUB - If u turn right and it makes the humming noise, it is your left hub assembly (viewed from behind wheel)

-> RIGHT HUB - If u turn left and it makes the humming noise, it is your right hub assembly (viewed from behind wheel)



~
Michael

[tenspeed]

Originally posted by bballr4567
Also when I turn the right the car stops the humming. That means the left bearing needs to be replaced right?

Wrong.

A bad bearing will make more noise when there is more weight (load) on it. When you turn right, more weight is put on the left bearing.

I'm assuming that the noise increases when you turn the wheels to the left. That would be a bad right front bearing.

[bballr4567]

Ok so just to make sure when I turn right the noise stops. So that means its a bad right bearing right??

Also I cant use the warranty as I wasnt the owner of the car when they were changed. I wish that was the case but yea.

Is the NAPA one better then the Timken bearings?? There is a huge price difference in the pair with the NAPA being $170 and the Timken being $115.

[untamedChap]

Yeah, that's right - I paid $170 for the NAPA hub bearing assembly. I was pleased to hear that it has a "lifetime" warranty on it since this part seems to fail often in the pontiacs. I'm not sure about the Timken brand hub assembly.

If Timken has a lifetime warranty, I'd go with Timken and save yourself $55. Dang, if they do, I could have saved me a 55 bucks - only thing, I don't know where a TIMKEN dealer is near by!

Napa was pretty convenient.

Note: I also had to buy a new axcel nut because the default nut on my pontiac consisted of four very thin nuts encapsulated in a metal sheild (which I broke). The replacement nut cost me 13 bucks and it was a "whole" nut, not 4 thin encapsulated nuts in a metal claw looking piece.

[untamedChap]

I found out that Auto Zone carries the TIMKEN brand. I got a price check on the part and it sales for $115 like you said. However, it only comes with a 1 year warranty according to the Auto Zone & Timken representive (which I also called).

Best of luck! I guess I paid 55 bucks for a lifetime warranty basically.

[bballr4567]

Well seeing how its better to pay for the warrenty then have the new bearing go out in 13 months and then have to plop down another 115 for a new one.

Also does anybody know if NAPA will rent me the tools to do it??

[untamedChap]

Its pretty easy to do (just time consuming). You shouldn't need a hub puller. I didn't use one! I just pulled it right off with ease.

I also recommend having another person to help. I turned the wheel back and forth while my friend took off and put on the hub nuts.

Here is an excellent guide that pretty much shows you how to do it and tells you what you need for a Grand Prix:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/GM-Wheel-Bearing-Hub-Assembly-Replacement/

It is pretty much exactly how its done on a Pontiac Grand Am. You can use your own technique.

Note: I didn't need a hub puller because my hub came off with ease. You probably won't even need it. I didn't put the spare tire on or anything like that to get the nut off either. I also didn't have a torque wrench that would fit on the axcel nut so, me and my bud tighted it back up as tight as we could get it with my braker bar. So, hopefully we torqued it enough!

[Teamlino21]

IMHO, if you have to change one, you might as well do both. Then you'll be able to sleep at night.

[tenspeed]

Originally posted by Teamlino21
IMHO, if you have to change one, you might as well do both. Then you'll be able to sleep at night.

I've changed one and I won't change another unless it absolutely needs it. Hours of crawling around on the ground, wrestling rusted hardware. Mine didn't come apart easily. The hub came out in two pieces. It was rusted in the housing.

Would you change both axles if one CV joint went bad?

BTW, I got my OEM hub with the silver nut on eBay for $75 shipped.

[SE2000]

Originally posted by untamedChap
I found out that Auto Zone carries the TIMKEN brand. I got a price check on the part and it sales for $115 like you said. However, it only comes with a 1 year warranty according to the Auto Zone & Timken representive (which I also called).

Best of luck! I guess I paid 55 bucks for a lifetime warranty basically.

I bought a NAPA unit several months ago and it came with the new style nut.

[untamedChap]

Originally posted by SE2000
I bought a NAPA unit several months ago and it came with the new style nut.

Really? hmm... I wonder why I didn't get one in my box. Maybe it fell out and I didn't see it. Ohh well, its all fixed now!

Regarding that picture, my hub assembly wasn't rusted like that. That's pretty bad! I guess you can assume that if you see a lot of rust, you can expect it to put up a fight. ;)

[tenspeed]

That's two western New York winters. The wet look is from Krylon Let Go, similar to WD40.

The bearing was still good, the ABS sensor was bad and winter was coming. It gave me time to look for the best price on the hub.

[pokesmot]

does anyone know what exactly causes the abs sensors to go in these bearings? Seems that these abs sensors fail constantly.

its a shame GM started building the abs sensors inside the bearings in the first place; would be so much easier if they kept them externally mounted & seperate from the bearing like on my 93 :(

I wonder if that was a cutback to save $, or a plan to make more money because they always fail.

[bballr4567]

UPDATE: Well today I attempted to change out the assembly only to have things backfire like crazy. It took a good while to get the axel nut off due to it being solidly rusted on. Took me and a friend with a 2 ft breaker bar with both of us standing on it to break it loose.

Brakes assembly came off really easy.

Then came the 3 bolts on the back side of the assembly. They just wouldnt come out at all. We got one out and that took about 30 minutes just due to the freaking place it was at. So needless to say we gave up.

The job would of been way way way way way easier if we had an impact drill but we just didnt have one.

So needless to say Im going to take the part I got (Timken) and take the car to a shop to get it changed out. It really makes me mad that I cant change it myself because I just hate having to pay people for something that I can do.

ARGH!!!!!! :banghead: :explode:

[tenspeed]

Originally posted by bballr4567
Then came the 3 bolts on the back side of the assembly. They just wouldn't come out at all. We got one out and that took about 30 minutes just due to the freaking place it was at. So needless to say we gave up.

I had a tough time with those bolts as well. They are in a small well and I couldn't get a grip on them with a wrench. The sockets didn't fit in there either. Sort of had to use a open end wrench at an angle.

[bballr4567]

Ohhh we tried that too. Nothing would get them off. I guess the last time that they were changed an impact wrench was put on to tighten them.

[SE2000]

I've done a few and you need a craftman 6 pt 3/8" drive socket, a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter, short extension bar and a long handle rachet. The 3/8 socket fits in straighter and the craftman part is when you break it.

[supradude]

I just had one replaced today, on the passenger side. That makes the 3rd time one the same side!!!! The driver side is still the factory bearing. I would only change the one that is bad for that reason. I got lucky and only had to pay a mechanic $35 to do it. Or course it only took him 30 minutes to do it where it would have took me 3 hours. I'm still not sure why the same side keeps failing though.

[untamedChap]

Originally posted by bballr4567
UPDATE: Well today I attempted to change out the assembly only to have things backfire like crazy. It took a good while to get the axel nut off due to it being solidly rusted on. Took me and a friend with a 2 ft breaker bar with both of us standing on it to break it loose.

Brakes assembly came off really easy.

Then came the 3 bolts on the back side of the assembly. They just wouldnt come out at all. We got one out and that took about 30 minutes just due to the freaking place it was at. So needless to say we gave up.

The job would of been way way way way way easier if we had an impact drill but we just didnt have one.

So needless to say Im going to take the part I got (Timken) and take the car to a shop to get it changed out. It really makes me mad that I cant change it myself because I just hate having to pay people for something that I can do.

ARGH!!!!!! :banghead: :explode:


Yeah, We had a rough time with the metal cage holding the bolts too... We had to bend the cage back and take each thin nut off at a time! By the way, NAPA does put the nut in their box (I just didn't see it).

We used a small impact drill on the three bolts that you couldn't get off. It is a tight spot to work in. That sucks you can't get them off... once those are off, its a cake walk!

:noisy:

[bballr4567]

Yea it was a true PITA. Im in the search of a shop now. Ive called like three but they wouldnt work on it and put the part in that Ive already bought. I hate automotive shops with a passion.

[untamedChap]

I hear that - they want to make money off the part they sale you. Bring it on over to Maryland, I'll put it on for a 6 pack of beer. ;)

[bballr4567]

Originally posted by untamedChap
I hear that - they want to make money off the part they sale you. Bring it on over to Maryland, I'll put it on for a 6 pack of beer. ;) HAHAH Yea and then the amount of money I spend on gas will make it even!!! lol Thanks for the offer though.

Seriously if anybody around an hour from Ft Campbell has the tools that can help me Im all for it!

[bballr4567]

Aight so update this a lil bit. I bought the Timken bearing earlier in the week for $106 from autozone with a year warrenty and a military discount.

Tuesday I went to a buddies house to change it and ran into the problem I stated above.

Today took it to a shop to get it done. I called about 5 or 6 before finding one that work on it right then and not have to wait til around tuesday. Shopped charged an hour labor for about 55 minutes of work to change it out. Labor cost was $68 with the total being $75.11

So now I dont have to listen to an annoying damn hummmmmmmmmmm the whole time I drive anywhere and Im damn happy.

All in all it cost $181 to change the hub assembly. Not bad I guess. Just mad I couldnt get it done.

Also priced the LIM change and it was going to be around $400 to get it done with the price including the new Felpro gaskets. Ill get that done as soon as I get my taxes done if I dont sell the car first.

[untamedChap]

So, you got rid of your hummer and finally got the pontiac back. nice. lol That's what I called my car when the bearing assembly was going out... made the humming noise so I told all that I drove a Hummer. lol

[SE2000]

Well, next month when it goes out again, it'll be easy enough for you to do yourself.

Oh, I want a hummer!! and a 4wd

[jbrow1]

Changed my passenger side bearing today. Really went fairly nice other than a couple goof ups. Broke one of the little bolts on the caliper which I then realized I didn't even need to remove, so had to take the brake line off to get the caliper off the rotor. When reassembling everything the dang line wouldn't quit leaking so had to go get new copper washers. Then the bleeder screw was seized up, I called the car everything but a pontiac, then went and got a new caliper. Smooth sailing after that.
That link on the first page with the pictures was nice to see before digging into it. A four foot bar helped break the axle nut free, and the three bolts from the backside came right off using a 1/2 to 3/8 reducer so I could use a breaker bar.

[untamedChap]

Glad to hear that linked helped (the one w/ the photos and explanations)! It was a good reference for me to look at too! Sry to hear about the brake line.... ::shrug:: always something!

So far, my bearing's been doing good!

~
Michael

[AngelofSiN]

Originally posted by tenspeed
Wrong.

A bad bearing will make more noise when there is more weight (load) on it. When you turn right, more weight is put on the left bearing.

I'm assuming that the noise increases when you turn the wheels to the left. That would be a bad right front bearing.

So if I'm turning left and hear the noise, it's my driver's side bearing? :???:

it sounds like it's coming from the passenger side on left turns.

[huafist]

Mine made more noise turning to the right, and it turned out to be the right side bearing. However, I agree with TenSpeed that typically, it's the opposite side that is failing.
Jack the front end up and grab the wheel at 12:00 and 6:00, and see if there is any play. If there is, that's your bad bearing.

[tenspeed]

Originally posted by AngelofSiN
So if I'm turning left and hear the noise, it's my driver's side bearing? :???:

it sounds like it's coming from the passenger side on left turns.

When you turn left, the car tilts and puts more weight on the right bearings. If you are hearing noise when turning left, it is the right front bearing.

I have a slightly noisy bearing. If it gets real loud, I'm using my other car until it get warm out.

[AngelofSiN]

Originally posted by huafist
Mine made more noise turning to the right, and it turned out to be the right side bearing. However, I agree with TenSpeed that typically, it's the opposite side that is failing.
Jack the front end up and grab the wheel at 12:00 and 6:00, and see if there is any play. If there is, that's your bad bearing.

Hmmmm, I'll have to give that a try, if I can find a garage to pull it into (too much snow/ice on the ground, and my garage is filled with junk right now) :lol:

[AngelofSiN]

Originally posted by tenspeed
When you turn left, the car tilts and puts more weight on the right bearings. If you are hearing noise when turning left, it is the right front bearing.

I have a slightly noisy bearing. If it gets real loud, I'm using my other car until it get warm out.

And by right bearing, you mean if I'm standing outside looking at the car, correct? Not sitting in it (that would be the left.)

[tenspeed]

Originally posted by tenspeed
When you turn left, the car tilts and puts more weight on the right bearings. If you are hearing noise when turning left, it is the right front bearing.

The right bearing (passenger side) as seen from the drivers seat. Starboard for the marine group.

Think about what happens when you turn the car. It tilts to the outside of the turn. Anything loose slides to the outside. More weight is put on the outside wheels. If you turn sharp enough, the inside rear wheel will lift off the ground.

All this shifting puts more weight on the outside tires, wheels and bearings. If you have a bearing making noise, it will make more noise when more weight is put on it.

[jcasemore]

Originally posted by bballr4567


All in all it cost $181 to change the hub assembly. Not bad I guess. Just mad I couldnt get it done.


Mine ended up costing me just over $800 for my passenger hub.

It all started when....

I had the ABS and trac off light come up. Got the code read and there were 3 codes set for the front right sensor. I was in full time school so decided to wait to change the hub myself when I had time.

Finally changed it and still had the same 3 codes coming up. I double checked all the wiring, pulled the computer to check the plug all looked good so I took it to a mom and pop shop.

After they did all their testing with their computer they could not find anything wrong. So they decided to get a used ABS computer since they thought it was toast. Plugged it in and still same codes.... (Didn't have to pay for computer)

After more testing they unplug the sensor and plug the wiring into a new hub while the hub was still in the box and guess what!!! Codes went away!

So I paid for the original hub and got my money back. Paid for a ton of troubleshooting and than a new hub and install.

They figured that as soon as I put the car in gear there was a split second loss of signal that their diagnostic computer couldn't pick up but the ABS computer could.

[untamedChap]

If you are hearing noise when you turn LEFT, it is the RIGHT side bearing (or passenger side bearing if you will).

If you are hearing noise when you turn RIGHT, it is the LEFT side bearing (or driver side bearing if you will).

These points of reference are all based from the driver sitting in the driver seat.