Starting problem

[JoeyK]

I researched & found some ideas but here goes;

My '01 Ga now belongs to my niece. She drove it home, about 150 mi. Then drove it several times on some short trips near home the same day. Evening comes & it won't start. I suspected the fuel pump, so did the local mechanic (which I do not know) BUT the security light had been coming on solid as I was trying to start it. I thought it may be because she had put an extra key for the car on the same keyring & there were 2 passlock encoded keys near the ignition. (I'm unsure if that may have been a prob. or not/ I know zero about the security/ passlock feature.)

The guy replaces the fuel pump & sends her on her merry way the next day & all is fine for two days, then she calls me & tells me the security light is on again. (Calls me while she's driving) She then parks it & goes in the house. Comes out a half hour later & it's dead again, just as it was before.

Was the fuel pump really dead before & this new one, for some reason died too? I'm strongly suspecting there's a problem with the passlock system & it's killing the fuel pump. If that what it may be does anyone have any ideas as to why the security light would come on out of the blue?

I am baffled, I have never had any problems with this car whatsoever & now, wouldn't you know it, it comes up with a mystery problem right after I sell it to my niece. I feel so horrible. I paid for the fuel pump replacement but I am now beginning to think her boyfriends' dad's mechanic friend replaced a fuel pump for nothing & I paid a $500 repair bill for nothing.

Any help/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Colin]

The passlock system disables fuel that's why it won't start . The keys are not special or encoded that's 'passkey' . The ignition cylinder is likely the culprit with this issue and usually requires replacing . You can start the car by leaving the ignition in the 'on' position for 10 -15 mins till the secuity light goes out , then turn the key to off and start as normal .

[JoeyK]

Thanks Colin. I've seen you answer many mechanical problems & really trust your judgement - and what you've stated makes sense.
One question though;

before I turned the car over to her, I removed my radar detector. I had it hooked up to the ign. fuse, via a jumper wire - if I remember the fuse slot correctly. I also have a bank of switches for various acessories hooked up to the same fuse slot/ jumper wire. (That switch bank get's it's power from the battery, through a relay. The wire from the ign. fuse slot is just to activate the relay, thus providing power to the switch bank whenever the car is on.

Do you think if I accidentally reinserted the jumper wire in a fashion that crossed both the fuse prongs, would that mess up the ignition and activate the "security" light?

[Colin]

Originally posted by JoeyK
Do you think if I accidentally reinserted the jumper wire in a fashion that crossed both the fuse prongs, would that mess up the ignition and activate the "security" light? Anythings possible but i wouldn't think so , but if you did bridge both prongs that wouldn't be a great idea obviously . Passlock is part of the ignition cylinder and sends a signal to the computer to enable the fuel pump if all is well , if someone trys to use a different key ( or hotwire it ) in an attempt to start the car it disables fuel so the car can't be stolen . Replacing the ignition cylinder and doing the relearn procedure should fix it ... ;)

[JoeyK]

Colin,

I was able to get to the car yesterday. I tried the relearn procedure & it worked. I assume it IS indeed the ignition lock.
The mechanic that worked on it insists that the passlock system disables the fuel injectors when it goes into security mode so he says her fuel pump was bad anyways since he claims it was only pushing 30lbs.

Do you know for a fact that passlock disables the fuel pump? Or is he right with the injector claim?

The reason I asked is because I tried nicely to explain to him what I think is wrong & that he needs to work out a fair deal on the correct repair since he more than likely replaced a perfectly good fuel pump.

I tried to get a new ignition cylinder while I was there to repair it but no one in town had one (Which runs around $200).

I think I'm going to direct her to take it to a GM dealership repair shop. I've got a real bad feeling this "friend" of her boyfriends family doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about, or what he's doing - whom, by the way owns & operates the repair shop which the car was taken to.
believe it or not he had the nerve to tell her he will "hook it up" to his scanning system to see what's wrong but there will be a charge!?! He didn't fix the problem, most likely replaced a GOOD fuel pump @ my expence ($480) & now he wants to charge her to hook it up to a scanner to find what he didn't fix in the first place. You'd think he would have hooked it up the first time. She even asked him if they tested the wireing to the fuel pump to see if there was power to it & he danced around the subject without answering her.

- Sorry if I ranted a bit. I guess I just really need to know if it's the pump or the injectors that cut off in security mode.


Thanks for all your help so far. I've got a headache - where's the Tylenol? lol

[bballr4567]

The passlock system basically locks up everything when it is activated. The fuel pump will stop pumping fuel but it is by no means bad. The mechanic is a total retard.

You dont even need to take it somewhere else now. The car is perfectly fine from what Im reading besides the passlock issue.

When was the last time you had new keys made?

[JoeyK]

Originally posted by bballr4567
The passlock system basically locks up everything when it is activated. The fuel pump will stop pumping fuel but it is by no means bad. The mechanic is a total retard.

You dont even need to take it somewhere else now. The car is perfectly fine from what Im reading besides the passlock issue.

When was the last time you had new keys made?

Thanks for the reply!

I have never had any new keys made. They are the origionals. She even used the spare, which I kept in a drawer & hardly ever used, still got the same result. She'll have to take it somewhere to get it fixed because she lives 3 to 4 hours from me, so I'm hopeing (pretty sure) A GM dealership shop can take care of it with no problem.

[bballr4567]

Well if the only problem she has is that the car wont start after a few days it seems to me at least that new keys need to be made. Either that or a new ignition. If they suggest something different Id really suspect that it might not need to be replaced.

[Colin]

Do you know for a fact that passlock disables the fuel pump?Yes :)

[Vhrus]

Originally posted by Colin
Yes :)
X2

[rixGAphx]

I don't understand how the mechanic can claim to have tested the old FP and registered 30 psi.
If it wasn't 'working' (spinning, because it was getting power from somewhere), then he could NOT get any reading.

If, as a part of his diagnostics, he jumpered the pump and/or relay, then the FP would spin.
He could then measure the pressure at the port on the engine.
30 psi is a low value (should be 32 min, and about 45 max), and could, indeed, be caused by a faulty FP with worn seals on the vanes.
BUT, IMO 30 psi is adequate for starting, idle, and low-rpm operation.
Only at higher rpms (say, 2000+) is the greater pressure and volume required.
Bottom Line: Depending on his diagnostics, the old FP may indeed have been failing.
The new pump itself is about $240US + tax; 2.5 hrs @ $80 = $200 (you hafta drop the exhaust to drop the tank to get to the FP for replacement), so $480 isn't an indecent price.
At least the niece can be assured of tens of thousands of miles without having THAT fail.

There are no 'rebuilt' fuel pumps, only new; so there was no 'core charge' on the old one.
If you had the old one, you could have it tested.
Suggest to the niece that in the future that she be sure to ask for 'Return of Old Parts' when she authorizes work (there's usually a box on the Work Order Form for just this reason).

Also, a faulty Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR), located on the fuel rail, can also be the source of low pressure in the fuel rail.

Hope this helps,
-Rick

Overall, I agree the problems seem to all point to a Passlock issue and an incompetent diagnosis by the niece' boyfriend's father's mechanic-friend.
She should dump the mechanic AND the b/f :D :D