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View Full Version : Service Engine Soon Light; EGR Fix


slam2316
05-08-2003, 08:35 PM
ok, heres the deal. the EGR's in these cars SUCK... something about it and the engine just creates a lot of carbon buildup.

I had this problem and I still have the problem occasionally. I changed the EGR the first time, 180 dollars. that didnt

fix the problem. Someone on the old boards emailed me a fix for it. I finally got around to doing it. Believe me it is a

major Pain in the a$$. If you have a bad carbon buildup like i had you HAVE to take off the throttle body. its a bit of a

pain because there is a coolant line running right below it that is bolted to the throttle body. it will come off you just

have to work with it and use an open ended wrench a socket will not work.

*take off the throttle body(make sure to get a new gasket before doing this, most auto parts places and dealers do not keep

stock on this so you will have to order it.

*take off the egr valve (make sure you have a new gasket, you may be able to get one of these at the last minute.)

* in the top hole (right in the middle of the horseshoe shape) is the passage with the buildup

*my suggestion is to soak it with carb cleaner and start using an unbent clothes hanger to start working the carbon out.

*right directly inside of the throttle body is that same passageway, start working on that with a thin screwdriver

*the process of cleaning will probably take between 1-2 hours depending on how bad the carbon is stuffed in there.

*most likely if you have a carbon buildup in the EGR passage there will be carbon everywhere inside of the throttle body and

directly inside of the intake manifold. you make want to clean all of that out.

*when you finally get everything cleaned up and you are sure that the EGR passage is clear you can start putting everything

back together.

*give it time for all of the carb cleaner to dry and then start the car. Note - It may die the first time. It needs to

breathe and on the first time it sucked down carb cleaner (I'm sure you would choke if you sucked down a mouthful of carb

cleaner too, lol.) Hopefully this should fix your problem. If you still get your MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) Warning

after this you may want to check and/or replace your EGR.

Here are the instructions for checking your EGR valve.
(Posted by Majorly)

You'll need a voltmeter for this and a couple jumper wires.

First things first.. Do this at your own risk! It's a tad tricky in some places and if you short something out... Don't sue

me.

On the top of the Digital EGR is a "Y" chaped connection which contains 4 pins. 1 Pin is the voltage, the other 3 are the

returns to ground through the ECM.

First off... the best thing to test is the "FUSE". Locate the ERLS fuse in your fuse box and confirm it is good.

Second... Pop the connection off the top of the EGR. Looking at the "Y" shape, the HOT/Voltage is at the very BOTTOM of the

"Y". With your meter to ground and the ignition on (But not started), Confirm that you have 12 volts on that pin on the

"CONNECTOR". (Not the Valve). If you do, GREAT! If not, recheck the fuse, If that's ok then a wire in your harness is broken

somewhere out to the EGR valve. You can continue with the next test if you want.

Turn the ignition back off but leave the connection off.

Now, be careful here.. Using 2 jumper wires and I'd hope alligator clips on one end... connect them to the battery and make

sure they are not going to fall off. Take the one connected to the RED terminal of the battery and touch the pin ON the EGR

that is at the BOTTOM of the "Y" and hold it there. Now, With the other wire, touch each of the other pins in turn (Be DAMN

careful NOT to short out the two wires!). When you touch each pin you should hear the thing shift in it's housing with a

click. Believe me, you WILL hear it. If you hear all three going CLICK. Great! Your EGR valve is probably OK.

If you get to one that does not click and you are getting fault codes for "that" solenoid. The coil inside it is burnt or

the wire is broken that leads to it inside the thing. You may be able to replace just the one coil if you try hard enough.

If not, just replace the entire thing.

If you are getting a fault for a single solenoid, but it checks out ok with this test.. you may have a broken wire in the

harness.

If you are getting all THREE faults from your OBD and the EGR checks out fine and the fuse does too... It's probably plugged

somewhere. I'm hoping we can get the instruction to clean EGR's up somewhere on this site.

Alot of Digital EGR's are the same, I'm not saying this will work with ANY car... but it's worth looking into so save

everyone some money. You can't trust all mechanics to tell you the truth. Just the damn good ones.

slam2316
05-08-2003, 09:21 PM
Pic

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=74445

slam2316
05-08-2003, 09:23 PM
Here is a rough sketch courtesy of someone from the old boards.

John95GA
05-09-2003, 01:39 PM
Wow, thanks for the detailed descriptions/instructions. Since I don't recall, how was this clogged EGR thing affecting the performance of your car? I'm just wondering if it's the same thing I've been having. ;)

slam2316
05-09-2003, 10:41 PM
it doesnt really do much. the ses light comes on and the emissions do not work right. (I do not know what else, if anything)

LoneRangers15
07-02-2003, 10:09 AM
Are you cleaning the carbon out of the intake manifold or throttle body? I would assume it would be easier to remove either one and soak it in carb cleaner (the kind where you put the whole part in the bucket, not the spray) although this may affect the metal. If you had the money you could probably also have it professionally cleaned. I would think this would be easier than you method, but I could be wrong.

Marks95GAGT
08-03-2003, 03:25 PM
I had this problem.....and used a small wire brush and a coat hanger to clean out the port and about 1/3 a can of carb cleaner....after I sobered up from the fumes :D

The reason I had to was because I would be doing about 80 on the freeway and then let off the gas and when my car would hit about 55 the SES light was come on.

Have fun.....

:band:

live4ball
09-30-2003, 10:49 AM
about the throttle body...

what exactly do you need to clean out. I've looked at it and the egr isn't really near the throttle body at all. Am i missing something? (i am somewhat clueless)

redgrandam
10-03-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by live4ball
about the throttle body...

what exactly do you need to clean out. I've looked at it and the egr isn't really near the throttle body at all. Am i missing something? (i am somewhat clueless)

There is a passage way that goes between the EGR and just behind the throttlebody that gets built up with carbon..

Not to everyone, the EGR itself is crappy, and prone to failure.. lol.. as one of mine died (there was no build up of any huge amount. So I got a new one, and the new one had a solenoid failure two weeks into it. Defective. So if you get your codes read, they can identify if it is a solenoid that stoped working, or if it is something else

Neon806
10-13-2003, 01:59 PM
What size sockets/etc. are used for this job? Are they metric or SAE?

Thanks,
James

IowaGT
10-23-2003, 10:25 AM
Would this affect acceleration? My g/f's check engine light is on a lot... wondering if that could be the problem.

craz-e-e
11-08-2003, 12:42 PM
Please help me on this, I've had this stupid EGR problem for about 2 years. I went to a dealer and they read the codes and told me the valve itself was bad, they wanted to charge me over $600 to change the valve and fix the directional switch. I didn't have them fix it because I recently bought the car and wasn't covered by the dealer that I bought it from. I replaced the EGR vavle and it didn't help, I also replaced the oxygen sensor. My last assumption is the passage is clogged. I have the same problem as: Marks95GAGT, but now instead of on the highway, it does it when I turn on the car so I assume its badly clogged. No one in my area, does this type of work or most people say we are willing to do it, but we dont really deal with this problem (anotherwords you want my money even thougth you probably won't fix my problem). I have a digital EGR vavle, do I have to remove the pipe with the base that connects to the valve and clean that, or inside the part that the pipe connects to, or both.

Thanks in advance

96grandma
11-11-2003, 04:44 PM
is there a way to have the check engine light flash the code? in other words is there a way to find out what is wrong with my car with out having the computer to tell me what is wrong?

96grandma
11-19-2003, 08:20 PM
how do you bypass the EGR?

stamarev
11-29-2003, 10:29 PM
Hi there.
Two months ago I cleaned the port as described in this thread. It helped a lot, I got the light on every once in a while, but not too often. But in two months the light pops up more frequently and ended up exact as it was before. So I've decided to clean it again. And I've noticed that actually the passage diameter is relatively huge. The first time I've cleaned it I though that it is about 3-5 mm in diameter. But it is more likely 10-12 mm in diameter, because I've managed to pick out of there the huge buildup rocks.
Notice the tool I've created from the coat hanger :) It is kinda a corkscrew :) It is about 20 cm long.
Also, I've found a document how to test the EGR more surely.

Hope, I've finally got rid of that annoying light.

Just my $0.02

stamarev
11-29-2003, 10:34 PM
doc

ERMIGAOWNER
02-17-2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by 96grandma
how do you bypass the EGR?

I was wondering the same thing. I was wondering if there was a bypass or a high performance EGR.

JackD3115
04-19-2004, 06:39 PM
i had the same trouble. my ses light would come on when i let off the gas at 70mph and had the egr valve changed 2 times. i took it to the gm shop and they cleaned my manifold twice the second time they did it they said there was some casting left on which was the problem. have not seen the light come. they used a speedometer cable hooked up to a drill to clean mine.

voyager
04-23-2004, 10:04 AM
you can machine a plate to just block the egr off..

it affects your fuel economy, but not really your performance.

good info up there! :deal: :)

Prospeeder
05-24-2004, 12:11 AM
umm with gas prices at 2.30+ a gallon, fuel ecomeny is pretty important

98GrandAm
07-13-2004, 03:15 PM
where can you get these gaskets at?

GreenAm
01-01-2005, 09:27 PM
I did the carbon clean up per the post here from salm2316, and it worked perfectly. My SES light would come on at about 55mph, during deceleration from 70-80mph cruise. I noticed that it would go off priodically, so I figured the passage was not completely blocked (116,000 miles..I bought car new in '94). That was what I found when I tore it down; lots of carbon, but not blocked all the way. I used brake cleaner (don't get it on anything else), and cleaned the thorttle body and bore, and put it back together. After 3 test drives, the light stays off! Really good advice....thanks dude!

GreenAm.

cage47
06-02-2005, 10:52 AM
Ever since I got my GA in Feb I had this problem. Same as everyone. When I stared out it was fine but the first time I slowed from cruising speed the ses light came on. The shop I use for work I can't do estimated $600 for parts and labor, including the decarbonization. I did it myself. I used a clothes hanger with the twisted end. My port was almost completely clogged. Took and hour and a half to break through. Since then the light has not come on. But the biggie. Before I was getting about 280 miles a tank full. Well Today I'm up to 340 miles and still have a little left in the tank. I'll figure my actual milage tonight. Also with the egr messed up my nox emissions were slightly elevated. The standard for Tx to pass inspection is 1006 ppm. I was at 1003 ppm. I got the new gasket with my new egr valve ($179). And now the power is incredible. Get the old head in the back of the seat responce. Not bad for 223K miles on her.

IamChevyman5
09-15-2005, 12:19 PM
i cleaned out the carbon from my EGR valve about 3 weeks ago, before I read this, and it improved my cars driving like crazy. Can somebody do me a favor and give me instructions on how to get the carbon out of the throttle body and intake manifold...keep in mind your making instructions which are going to be persued by an f'in retard.
thanks,
Dan

voyager
09-18-2005, 10:43 PM
the best way to clean the intake manifold is to remove it from the engine and soak it in GM top-end cleaner.

96GreenGaGT
09-18-2005, 11:53 PM
which takes a lot of time and effort and a second car to drive while the intake soaks in the cleaner overnight....

ryu77us
01-11-2006, 11:19 PM
ok.... i wish i had pictures so i could see this, so like when I put the throttle body in the cleaner, like get a bucket of cleaner and put it in there?

And what im worried about is... putting it all together and having it not start at all, what are the chances of that happening?

Pimped Am GT
04-28-2006, 11:13 AM
yea egr's are a pain in the a** but they dont really mess with performance they do kill ur gas mileage if there clogged though

phiberoptik
06-15-2006, 08:09 PM
Thought these might help a bit...

The collection of Carb Cleaner is the passage that needs cleaned out:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/xphiberoptikx/DSCF1675.jpg

BEFORE of the throttle body side of the clogged passage:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/xphiberoptikx/DSCF1676.jpg

AFTER the passage is unclogged:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/xphiberoptikx/DSCF1677.jpg

phiberoptik
06-15-2006, 08:10 PM
Also... here is the Y connection for the wire tap testing.

Sorry these are way beyond due, but I just did it so thought pictures speak a 1000 words.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/xphiberoptikx/DSCF1669.jpg

95GT
09-21-2006, 01:07 PM
Is it possible that the computer will set the EGR code if there is a rip in the intake hose? I looked up the codes on a program, and it said while the computer checks the valve, it creates a vaccum to check them. So maybe it's loosing perssure.

95GT
09-27-2006, 04:37 PM
I'm picking up an EGR valve for $25. from my teacher. NICE.

95GT
10-11-2006, 12:07 PM
Ok, I NEED HELP!!!!
I got my port cleaned out by hosing it with carb cleaner, and some wire. NOW, i have it all back together, and it runs like crap. I think it might be a mix of the carb cleaner and carbon getting in the engine, with the fact that it's out of gas. But if anybody has heard of this, help me out!

95whitese
03-23-2007, 07:33 PM
www.milzymotorsports.com makes an egr block off kit for the 3100