good sub/amp choice?

[Green_99GTcoupe]

I recently found myself with a nice chunk of extra cash so I decided I should take my GA's audio to the next level. I already have a Pioneer head unit and Alpine Type S speakers all around. So I have been looking for a good sub and amp.

What I found was a RF Punch Stage 1 300W sub and a RF 600W 2 channel amp for 200 CDN total. I'm not looking to set off car alarms as I drive down the street (although that is dam fun), I am just looking for something basic. I thought this was a great idea since I can add a second sub later if I want. I already have a dual 10" box so I won't even have to buy a second box if i decide to add the second sub.

Anyway, I want to know if these are good products and a good combination. Before I found this sale the cheapest sub/amp combo
I could find was a Type S 10" and Mono Alpine amp for 255. Any other suggestions for a cheap sub and amp will be helpful but I want to keep the price under 300 after taxes so I can get it all done for about 450.

I do not want to order anything over the net or buy anything used/refurbished. I am willing to buy new to ensure everything is as its supposed to be. Also, please don't be like the people on other forums I have been on and suggest brands that you cannot buy at a mass dealer or a car audio dedicated store.

[curtisjade1]

I have posted links of a sub and amp that would be within your price range and they are verry good items i have two of the subs and two of the amps in my car and they are amazing
Amp: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10074473&catid=
Sub: http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10072876&catid=20118

[Green_99GTcoupe]

That sub looks great, I had no idea there was a 600W sub to be found for 100 bucks. Since I am able to buy the amp i mentioned for 100 bucks I'd rather use it that the amp you mentioned. I'm not sure whether or not the amp I found is bridgeable, because the flyer only listed the specs of the sub and said 600W RF amp included.

If that amp isnt bridgeable, do you or anyone else know of an amp for less than 150 bucks that could power that Pioneer. I will be getting it professionally installed and the earliest time I can get it in is the 28th, so I am in no hurry.

[MantaGreen97]

^That sub is NOT a "600W sub". That sub handles 120W, not 600W.

Perhaps the very first rule of amplifier and speaker shopping should be to not pay any attention whatsoever to peak power ratings. They mean absolutely nothing. It's typically just an arbitrary number manufacturers use (and many of them do it even some good/big amp manufacturers) to draw sales.

Is this "600W" Fosgate amp you speak of brand new or used? I find it pretty hard to believe you'd find a new Fosgate Punch P550.2 in Canada for near the price you mentioned. And the P550.2 is the cheapest current-model 2ch Punch amp rated near 600W. So unless you're talking about a used amp or a "fell-off-the-truck" special, I doubt you'd ever see anything even near 600W in a Punch amp for anything near the less than $200 CDN price you mentioned. (You mentioned the sub and amp were $200.)

As for the amp and sub match, the TC2002 is indeed bridgeable. It's rated for 200W RMS (into 4-ohm bridged) and will likely do about 240-280W of real-world performance (will be noted on the birthsheet). It's more than enough for that Pio sub.

[Green_99GTcoupe]

That's the problem with car audio, it complicated enough that people can easily screw you. I phoned the store that was selling the amp, and they said it actually handles 150W.... The only local place that would tell you the whole truth has recently come under hard time and are now just moving products. They tried very hard to screw me over when I bought my Type S speakers. One of the 6x9's exploded and they initially told me they wouldn't replace it because they had no record of me buying the 6x9's, only the door speakers. But I found my receipt and did a little 'loud' talking to them and it got fixed. So I guess these forums are my only hope.

Anyway, does anyone know of an equivalent sub to the one Curtis posted? It's 2 hours to the nearest BestBuy for me and I couldn't find that sub anywhere except for the company I mentioned above.

[MantaGreen97]

Is there an FS near you? FS should sell the exact same sub, if not online probably in-store. If the price is lower at Best Lie they will probably price match (though sometimes they'll give you the run around on it). While I would actually stay away from buying from Futile Shop and Best Lie, I guess being in Saskatchewan you probably have little choice. (?)

[Green_99GTcoupe]

Well actually there are 3 dedicated car audio stores within 20 minutes and 6 more within 2 hours(Saskatchewan isn't a bunch of towns...). But they mainly deal in higher end stuff because Futureshop and Krazy Kileys(your krazy to deal with them), have the low end market cornered. Therefore I have to shop at Futureshop, drive 2 hours to BestBuy or I am looking at least 160 for a sub with the power equivalent to the Pioneer that Curtis mentioned.

As for that specific sub, Futureshop lists a 500W Pioneer for 100 bucks but my local store said they don't have any in. Despite one of my Type S 6x9's exploding after 3 weeks, I am still looking for a Type S sub, but I can't find one for less than 200.

That 600W MTX amp looks like my best choice. But since that is more than I want to spend, I really want to find a sub for 100 bucks in which I am failing at. Any suggestions?

[MantaGreen97]

It's tough to suggest stuff given your budget requirements and the stores you have to work with, however...

First off I would consider shopping in the US and off the net. Obviously you don't live in the US but shopping from US sellers, particularly on eBay is almost always a good bit cheaper. There are a few issues of course.

The big concern is shipping and duty/tax when it comes across. Shipping it's hard to find a seller to ship here and the costs are usually high, particularly with heavier stuff. Another thing is never ship something across the border with UPS, NEVER. If the seller only ships UPS look elsewhere. The duty on subwoofers will be 6.5%, plus GST of 6% plus PST if your province charges it on imported goods. Plus the $7 handling/brokerage from Canada Post (which is a heck of a lot cheaper than UPS though). So sometimes something that should be cheap gets inflated quite a bit. Take a 12" Kicker CompVR for example... You can get one for around $65 US on eBay but shipping will cost you around $42 US. So there you have $107 US. If you add your duty and tax to that (I'm going to use 8% ON PST for the example) you'll be at around $160 CDN all said and done. Not as cheap as an American would get it for obviously but still probably a lot cheaper than you could get it for locally.

Keep in mind the CompVR is a better driver than an Alpine Type-S and will cost you less than what you're seeing for a Type-S. If you actually wanted a Type-S you could get one around the same price but I mentioned the CompVR because it is actually a better sub IMO.

I already see that you've said you don't want to shop off the net but I'm really telling you this just so you can make a more informed decision about that before saying that. If you don't want to buy off eBay or from the US, then you're really stuck with what you have. Bad prices, low-end gear, and the resulting sound quality. Unless you can get employee discount or know someone that can get you a good deal, you're pretty screwed buying from places like FS/Best Lie. The car audio shops you mentioned are probably going to be worse--places like that usually overprice gear quite a bit as well.

Problem with most low-end gear is that it only gets so cheap (well before you get into craptastic flea-market quality stuff I mean). So you could buy a low-end product for a seemingly "low" price but a higher-end product which is far better might only be a little more money. So my recommendation is usually just to save more money because in the long run, IMO you'll be happier and spend less. For example a Kicker Comp 12" will run perhaps $50 US whereas a CompVR 12" runs the $65 US mentioned. For the additional $15 the CompVR is more than worth it--it's a much better sub than the Comp.

It's all up to you, but personally I don't recommend buying things from FS/BB or in Canada in general simply because I cannot recommend getting ripped off. Sounds harsh but hey I don't set the prices (there are many things that in Canada have a higher dealer-cost than US retail on the exact same items). That said there are good deals to be had here (even at FS with the right sales) but as I used to say "everyday is Boxing Day, on eBay" LOL.

So really I can't recommend something for $100 because for you, if you go with FS/BB, $100 isn't going to buy you the quality that it would if you bought elsewhere. I also wouldn't recommend anything lower than the Type-S level sub (I wouldn't personally buy or recommend that Pio sub to anyone at that price. At $50 CDN yeah, but at $120, no way. $120 and tax is nearly $140 and considering a sub that is far far better could cost you $20 more there's no way I would recommend it). So if the lowest price you can get on a Type-S is $200 before tax, then I'd just say save a few more bucks and buy that. Otherwise I just wish you the best of luck with what you end up buying.

[Green_99GTcoupe]

I get what you mean, the problem is that the products aren't cheaper by the time I have it in my hand. Last year I looked all over for an authentic Detroit Red Wings jersey with customization and the cheapest I could find here was 350 bucks after taxes. So I decided to order one off the net which was 210 I believe. After the exchange, shipping, customs, PST and whatever else they add on, it was 340 dollars and a 10 day wait. And a jersey weighs about 1/10000 of what a subwoofer and amp weigh.

So in the end it looks like I'm just going wait and save more, which will take a while because 20 hours a week at minimum wage gets eaten very quickly.

[tubpub11]

Where abouts are you located Mike? good to see another Saskatchewan guy on here. Actually Krazy Kileys I find good to deal with in Regina. Depends on the sales guy that you get. Darcy is good to talk to. If you are by Yorkton, take a look in Mr. Stereo, their prices are listed high sometimes, but all you have to do is talk to them and they will go way down on the price(good bunch of guys in there). I believe my cousin got a 12" type s there for $140 a couple of years ago now. Got my 12"Type E there for 100. so a 10 inch will be a little cheaper then that. couldn't tell you what the amps will cost, never really looked.

[Green_99GTcoupe]

I'm in Saskatoon so Yorkton is a little out of reach. I have been trying to find out if there is anything in North Battleford or Prince Albert but I believe neither of them have a dedicated car audio store.

I wish the Krazy Kileys here was still an option because they used to have great people and great prices. But all their veteran install guys jumped ship because of uncompetitive salaries so now they just try to move products. Their just like Futureshop except without the great prices that make it worth shopping there.

Well anyway I'm just going to wait and hope that I can come up with the money I need before the 28th, because if I don't I will lose my booking at the install place and it will be another month before I can get in....

[Green_99GTcoupe]

Well in my ongoing search for a subwoofer, I think I found something. At a local shop they have this sub on for 100 bucks.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10083855&catid=

Would using this and that 600W MTX amp be a good combination?

Also, to save money I am going to build my own box(shop class might have been useful after all). The specs say that the sealed box volume is 0.35 ft/3, what does that mean?

[tubpub11]

I would stick with finding a 10" sub. You should be able to find a good 10" sub for the same price. This one would work with the mtx amp. http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10060203&catid=


Now the 0.35 ft/3 means that the internal volume of the box needs to be .35 cubic feet. so the internal dimensions could be 9inchesx7inchesx10inches, which would give you a .365 cubic foot internal volume. If you are wondering how i figured .365 ft/3 you just go (9x7x10)/1728. Don't for get you will have to factor in speaker displacement as well.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Green_99GTcoupe
Well in my ongoing search for a subwoofer, I think I found something. At a local shop they have this sub on for 100 bucks.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10083855&catid=

Would using this and that 600W MTX amp be a good combination?
You mean 200W MTX amp, remember? LOL. But yeah that sub is rated for 200W RMS, the MTX amp was rated for 200W RMS, it looks like a good pair. However I would try to stick with at least 10" as tubpup mentioned.


Originally posted by Green_99GTcoupe
Also, to save money I am going to build my own box(shop class might have been useful after all). The specs say that the sealed box volume is 0.35 ft/3, what does that mean?
That's the internal volume, again as tubpup explained. That's a tiny box by the way. .35 cubic feet is really quite small. Which is good because it won't take up much room, but thinking of how it's an 8" sub and back in the trunk, you're not going to get that much output from it. Hopefully you have fold down seats at the very least!

[Green_99GTcoupe]

Well I was obviously talking about the 200W RMS MTX amp... anyway, I was talking to another guy on the net and he said that MTX amp and that Pioneer sub would be a bad idea because that sub is only rated at 500W peak. He said that an MTX amp rated at 600W peak means 600W peak. Was this guy right, because that Pioneer sub looks like my best bet if it wouldn't get destroyed right away.

As for the box, I am still a little confused. I understand that the volume it is asking for is the volume of displacement of the sub plus the airspace volume left in the box, but where are you getting the displacement of the sub from. I have a feeling that I am being a complete idiot by missing it but I still can't seem to find it.

Also I found a few other options. Would this subwoofer and that MTX amp be a good combination?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672460&bmUID=1171254996128&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443289054&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

Or I could go the simple route:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672460&bmUID=1171254996145&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443289051&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

I know I ask a lot of questions but I am very new to this and I do not have the money to make a mistaken purchase.

[tubpub11]

I think it was mentioned before... don't look at the peak wattage. It means almost nothing. look at the RMS wattage. The pioneer sub that I put up there is 350w RMS, the MTX amp is rated at 200wRMS, so actually you are going to be underpowering the sub. But that is ok. the amp will not wreck the sub, just make sure the gains are set appropriatly(not sure how to spell that lol). This means when you get more money you will be able to upgrade your amp if you like, but it should sound pretty good even with only 200w into it, I've had a 200w sub for 4 years now and i've been happy with it, just upgraded this year. I'm not sure of the speaker displacement of the pioneer sub and it doesn't say on the site or on pioneers site, but all you have to do is email Pioneer asking what the speaker displacement is for that sub. then just calculate it in with the box design. you probably want a 1 cubic foot box with the pioneer sub.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Green_99GTcoupe
Well I was obviously talking about the 200W RMS MTX amp... anyway, I was talking to another guy on the net and he said that MTX amp and that Pioneer sub would be a bad idea because that sub is only rated at 500W peak. He said that an MTX amp rated at 600W peak means 600W peak. Was this guy right, because that Pioneer sub looks like my best bet if it wouldn't get destroyed right away.
Nope, lol. Go back to rule #1:
Originally posted by MantaGreen97
Perhaps the very first rule of amplifier and speaker shopping should be to not pay any attention whatsoever to peak power ratings. They mean absolutely nothing. It's typically just an arbitrary number manufacturers use (and many of them do it even some good/big amp manufacturers) to draw sales.

Originally posted by Green_99GTcoupe
As for the box, I am still a little confused. I understand that the volume it is asking for is the volume of displacement of the sub plus the airspace volume left in the box, but where are you getting the displacement of the sub from. I have a feeling that I am being a complete idiot by missing it but I still can't seem to find it.
Go on Infinity's site (or whatever manufacturer you're looking at a sub from), in the specs they should list the driver's displacement. Also box recommendations can be net or gross. If it's net you have to figure in the displacement of the woofer, if it's gross you don't because they've done it for you.


Originally posted by Green_99GTcoupe
Also I found a few other options. Would this subwoofer and that MTX amp be a good combination?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672460&bmUID=1171254996128&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443289054&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true
Isn't that the Pio we started with? :???:

Originally posted by Green_99GTcoupe
Or I could go the simple route:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672460&bmUID=1171254996145&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443289051&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

I know I ask a lot of questions but I am very new to this and I do not have the money to make a mistaken purchase.

Might be simple but I see a few problems there. First off the amp won't be as good quality as an MTX TC amp. Still an MTX but a lower level line. Secondly I'm unsure what exact sub is included with that. It'll work but I think you could get better components separately or at least elsewhere (Crappy Tire is not really known for their car audio, lol).