I Got a Red Top Did I Make The Right Choice?

[area3]

Ok So my Stock Factory Battery Died and I needed a New one So I Got the Red Top. Did I make the Right choice?

I am running a 250 Watts RMS Powered Infinity Sub off of it right now but will be upgrading to .....
1 - 520-Watt 4-Channel amplifier
2 - 1200-Watt Class D Subwoofer Amplifier

So should I take it back and get the yellow top?

[curtisjade1]

i have the same battery and i have a 2500w sound system and headrest displays and a 1000w power inverter and have had no problems yet so i think you made a great choice

[area3]

Wahoo

THANK YOU GRAND AM SEARCH TOOL!!!!!

See If you use the search tool u can find useful information!

[MantaGreen97]

Can you actually return car batteries? Anyway doesn't matter the Red Top will be fine. The YT is supposed to be the better battery but the Red Top will be fine for you. It has a better warranty too. Something like 1yr/2yr for the YT and 3yr/10yr for the RT, lol.

Technically Johnson Controls says they don't warranty it in "car audio applications" but when you just bring in the battery to the auto parts store counter the person there has no idea what you have in the car, so it really doesn't matter.

[area3]

so note to self dont take it back to autozone they know what i have :P

[b2089]

Originally posted by area3
so note to self dont take it back to autozone they know what i have :P

Don't sweat. That's the miracle of the pro-rated warranty. They want a sell, even a pro-rated one. They could give a rats patootie how you killed it as long as you continue to buy from them.

[MantaGreen97]

Not like they're ever going to remember anyway. If the battery fails 4-5 years from now and you bring it in, I'm sure they aren't going to remember. In fact even if it died a month from now what's the chances you go there when the same people are working? And as Marshall said they really don't care anyway, lol.

[area3]

Well I had a Good Excuse To buy one so I did lol

And they prob wont remember lol

Ill post pics tommrow!

Just to let yall know Grand Ams and Curbs dont Go Together!

[red hornet]

I was thinking of getting the Optima red top as well,but thinking when the time comes I need one sticking to the Ac-Delco maybe the upgraded one.I have everything stock electrical,I dont have keyless and a car starter would be nice on these cold days.Anyone know if they make a starter keyless unit thay plugs into factory harness.Thanx,Mike

[coupe]

I got the D34/78 yellow top, i dont see the point of getting the red top.

[area3]

HEY COUPE :D

Just to Hijack MY thread Im cleaning the Engine Out Tmmrw And I Will post pics Later :D

[dandragonrage]

You didn't make either the right or wrong choice. Car audio doesn't depend on a battery unless you crank it with the car off. The car runs completely off of alternator when it's on, unless the alternator is weak.

Also, I've heard many reports of Optimas not lasting that long. AC Delco batteries are actually pretty durable.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by dandragonrage
You didn't make either the right or wrong choice. Car audio doesn't depend on a battery unless you crank it with the car off. The car runs completely off of alternator when it's on, unless the alternator is weak.
Not entirely true. When you draw enough current with the car at idle (or enough current the alternator just can't provide it regardless of RPM) then you'll "run into" the battery. So the battery is indeed important even with the engine running. The battery also buffers the entire electrical system and is what also serves to provide power quickly when amps draw increased current on peaks (where the alternator can't react quickly enough at times). Battery is still not as fast as a cap (but caps are generally useless anyay) nor is it anywhere near as fast as a Batcap or Kinetic battery, but it's still more responsive than the alt since it's a storage medium. Batteries with spiral cells are better in this regard than traditional lead acid batteries because of the reduced internal resistance.

Originally posted by dandragonrage
Also, I've heard many reports of Optimas not lasting that long. AC Delco batteries are actually pretty durable.
Yeah well my Optima YT seems to be on it's last legs it seems :( I did have a current leak for a while that took me a while to troubleshoot and eliminate so that was running my battery down all the time in the past year but yeah my YT seems to not like holding a charge for that long. It's still impressive that it cranks the car with only like 10V reading on it, in -10C weather, but it is dying. After only around 4 years too :( Had it been an RT it would have been under warranty as well.

Which is probably the best reason to get a RT over a YT if you don't need deep cycle specifically. (The warranty).

Kind of surprising though for a battery that's supposed to last a lot longer. Optima wasn't much help either (just stated it's out of warranty nothing they could do, etc.). I haven't given up on spiral batteries though, as from a technical standpoint they are much better than traditional lead acid batts, but I think my next battery is going to be an Exide Orbital instead.

Also, the Delco premium aftermarket batteries aren't traditional batteries these days either, they're [non-spiral] AGM batteries. Those are good for longevity as well.

[dandragonrage]

Batteries are not capacitors, they do not respond instantly to current demands. You can end up using them with the car running, but look at what I said before about a weak alternator ;)

You should have an alternator that can supply your car audio system, even at idle. If it can't, your charging system is not sufficient. Period.

Edit: Just looked at what you're upgrading to in more detail. No amount of battery will save you. You need an upgraded alternator, BIGTIME. I recommend 240A, 120A minimum at idle. Check if Iraggi makes anything for you. If not, you're going to need to custom mount a bigger one. Do NOT try drawing 3000W of power just from audio from even a 160A alt, even if only for short peaks.

IMO, this is your MINIMUM: http://cgi.ebay.com/200amp-Amputator-Series-Alternator-Chevy-GMC-Pontiac_W0QQitemZ5758166242QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1493 2QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item5758166242

Better to fit something oversized, though. You'll need a different belt and custom mount, probably.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by dandragonrage
Batteries are not capacitors, they do not respond instantly to current demands. You can end up using them with the car running, but look at what I said before about a weak alternator ;)
Right but I didn't say they were as fast as capacitors just that they were much faster than alternators because they are electrical storage. Alternators don't store anything, that's the job of the battery. Alternator can output current but it's regulating one amount of current output and it gets a sudden increase in draw the regulator won't be able to respond until a relatively long time after the peak demand is over. It'll never keep up with music. That's why the battery is there to stabilise the electrical system and provide that current the alternator cannot possibly provide.

And, for the record capacitors do pretty much nothing for you and are a waste anyway. Buying an Optima instead of a cap is a much better use of money. Running a BatCap or a Kinetic cell is a different story than a cap though. But wait I'm repeating myself, for unknown reasons, lol.

Originally posted by dandragonrage
You should have an alternator that can supply your car audio system, even at idle. If it can't, your charging system is not sufficient. Period.
Yeah period except you're forgetting one thing--this is quite unrealistic. Certainly you want to have an electrical system that can hold up against your current demands but at absolutely all times in absolutely all cases? It's unlikely. That would mean that adding just a simple 600W-1000W sub amp (and nothing else) would require an immediate and necessary alternator upgrade or else... Period. :roll2: Absolute nonsense.

Think of the stock alternators in most GAs. 105A cold and not at idle either. Once the warm up you're getting a lot less than 105A of current capability out of them. Tons of people run over 1000W RMS of amplification on stock alternators ranging from 90-130A cold rated and never have any problems.

Think about the current draw of the car, particularly at night (when you're lights are on) at idle (when your brake lights are likely on) and in summertime (when the alt is performing even worse because of the heat level). Say you get maybe 60-80A capability from the alt, at idle (if that) in that scenario. Your lights, blower motor (say it's on setting 2 or something) and the rest of what's running your car is taking a huge chunk of that. Does that mean you immediately shut down everything you can just because "oh noes!" you're alternator can't produce power? Hardly :roll2: That's where your battery comes in. And trust me the battery does come in a lot more than you are believing in your ideal world there. Sure it's not a good idea to turn it up in the summer nighttime stoplight situation; but, just because you're clearly demanding more than the alt is providing (even by having your amps on at all) doesn't mean it's game over for you because you didn't buy some crazy $600+ alternator.

If your "period" statement above was really true, people wouldn't be able to add aftermarket stereo gear at all in this day and age (where 1000W RMS to a sub is typical/normal) without upgrading the alternator first. However this is simply not the case. Why? Because this is real life we're talking about.

Originally posted by dandragonrage
Edit: Just looked at what you're upgrading to in more detail. No amount of battery will save you. You need an upgraded alternator, BIGTIME. I recommend 240A, 120A minimum at idle. Check if Iraggi makes anything for you. If not, you're going to need to custom mount a bigger one. Do NOT try drawing 3000W of power just from audio from even a 160A alt, even if only for short peaks.
LOL. You're joking right? The guy is upgrading to (assuming RMS wattage), a 1200W D-class sub amp and a 520W speaker amp (which he might not even be using all the power from because that could be a 2-ohm or bridged rating), and you're telling him he needs an alternator that puts out 120A at the 600rpm idle of the 3400? LMAO. Honestly that alternator is going to cost like $600 or more, and is not at all necessary. (BTW, where did you get 3000W from? I only got he planned on going to a 1200W sub amp and a 520W other amp, certainly not 3000W).

I've got an Orion HCCA-D2400 (rated 1200W RMS @ 14.4V), an Aura RPM 3004 (rated 85W x 4 @ 13.8V), an Aura AST-3B4 digital amplilfier (50W x 2 @ 13.8V) making a total of 1640W RMS not including the fact that all of these amps are at least slightly underrated. Even at 100% efficiency (impossible) that's well over the 105A cold rating of the alternator and that's just amps alone, nevermind the rest of the car. I've been running most of this gear for years and yes on the stock alternator. I'm on my second alternator (only replaced once) in over 9 years, so no I'm not burning alts left right and centre either.

I also have 2 CD changers, an MD changer, the HU, multi-changer adapter, external DSP, Aux-in adapter, Walkman integration adapter, all on the HU bus. Plus a 6-way electronic crossover as well. While not all of these need to be powered/consuming current at once obviously, it's still quite a few more electrical devices than just a HU. No cap, no 2nd battery, no substantial light dimming, absolutely no RPM jumping, and again stock alternator. And again running most of this gear for years.

Just because you have amps that are capable of that kind of current draw/power output doesn't mean they are running full tilt all the time. Furthermore even when using them at high levels I don't run into the "period" and have my car die because I didn't have a HO alternator. Sure an HO alternator would be a good idea but hardly an absolute must and in no way a "minimum". The minimum is the stock alternator--it will hold up fine, believe me. Perhaps if you run over 2000W RMS of amplification to the sub(s) only then you should start worrying about that, but 1000W to a sub and a couple hundred watts to speakers is not going to cause your alternator to fail in two days, or even 5 years, LOL.

You don't need custom belts and mounts for some massive alternator because you're running a ~1000W class-D sub amp and a ~500W second amp.

What you caculate based on total amperage draw and then theorised about what mammoth alternator you "need", is simply not reality. It works fine on paper but it doesn't really prove true in real life (where the stock alt will quite frankly do fine). Perhaps at absolute full output for extended periods you'd be screwed but for anything else you do not create a situation where "your charging system is not sufficient period".

[area3]

WOW :roll2:

Information OVERLOAD my brain Hurts lol


Well I was gonna go with 3000 watts butttt

But since making my choice here is what Im going with when I get the money :D

1 Kenwood dvd in dash monitor with dvd navigation bluetooth sirus the works

1 in dash flip out touch monitor

1 apple mac mini

1 Tc 12 0r 15 inch Sub

2 Infinity Amps

and neon under the car :D

Thats all I would be running :D

[MantaGreen97]

One question, LOL... Why on earth would you need/want a Crapple Mac Mini in there? I honestly don't see what purpose the Mac would serve with such a competent HU. I mean usually people do one or the other, not try to jam both in there...

And the Kenwood unit you were looking at before was Double DIN, no? So how would you fit an additional (presumably single-DIN) flip out monitor in the dash as well? Or did you mean a flip-down monitor that goes from the ceiling?

Personall I think you were on a better track before, LOL; as now the monitors, neons, and weird occurence of the Mac seems more bling bling than SQ related, lol. But hey it's your car as long as it makes you happy that's what counts. :)

Personally I would nix the additional screen and the Mac and spend more on other stuff; unless you've got an even bigger budget to play with with those other things mentioned lol. Then just go for it all haha.

[area3]

I have Connections :roll2:

There is a Guy in town that does custom Fiber glassing So i was gonan have him fiberglass me a new dash with a 1 din slot to put the screen in.


But first I need a new sound system then the car painted So we will see if I actually do the mac mini or not!

Btw Apple Kicks Windows Ass around the block and then some!!

All I really Want is a Sexy 4 door Car :D:roll2:

[dandragonrage]

I would say that those running 1000WRMS from a stock alternator are (edit) pushing it. You may disagree, but I will always maintain that needing to draw power from your battery while the car is running is risky if you're going on a trip, and it also puts unnecessary strain on your battery and causes it to fail faster. Some people do it and don't have a problem - but hey, some people play Russian roulette and don't die. Some people use a $15 "500W" power supply in their computer and it doesn't catch on fire. Doesn't mean it's not a bad idea. Am I being a little TOO tough on alternator requirements? Probably. But why risk it?

Also, He said TWO 1200WRMS amps. And I assume the 520 is Class AB, so factor in the 65-70% efficiency of that... 3000WRMS is actually a low estimate, even if it is only when heavy bass strikes, batteries and alternators can only supply finite amount of current and they CAN fail immediately if you put too much stress on them.

And I linked an alternator that'll work, $359, not $600. I'd prefer he changes the casing of his alternator, which will cost LESS for the alternator, but add a little bit for a belt and mount. It will also run cooler, being in a bigger case. (by the way, if you use Iraggi, stick to the Amputator series - Dominator sucks at idle). OP: you won't need to do this, of course, if you've given up the huge amp idea.


OT:

Apple's got nothing going for it other than some people think the UI is pretty. I think Windows classic is not only better looking (it may have less "style" but not everyone prefers that - mostly emo college kids, if anything, do), but more intuitive/easy to use. Apple costs more, does not have the plethora of parts available from different manufacturers/has bad driver support. They take code from an open source community and charge for minor updates yearly (Windows XP SP2 was more of an update than any OSX point release has ever been, and it was free). They're also involved in fraudulent accounting practices, and that does matter to some of us when buying from a company. They're also well known to engage in slander marketing, like their current PC vs Mac ads. There may be PC companies just as screwed up as Apple, but there is an alternative to every single one of them.

[Matt95GT]

Your choice is fine... just don't run the system with the car off. (deep cycle)

Originally posted by dandragonrage
Also, I've heard many reports of Optimas not lasting that long. AC Delco batteries are actually pretty durable.

My red top is over 5 years old, and has been treated harshly. (accidently deep cycled 3+ times, survived being stored in the winter for over a month in the cold and still started the car) I don't have anything positive to say about my AC Delco before that.

[area3]

Originally posted by dandragonrage
Apple's got nothing going for it other than some people think the UI is pretty. I think Windows classic is not only better looking (it may have less "style" but not everyone prefers that - mostly emo college kids, if anything, do), but more intuitive/easy to use. Apple costs more, does not have the plethora of parts available from different manufacturers/has bad driver support. They take code from an open source community and charge for minor updates yearly (Windows XP SP2 was more of an update than any OSX point release has ever been, and it was free). They're also involved in fraudulent accounting practices, and that does matter to some of us when buying from a company. They're also well known to engage in slander marketing, like their current PC vs Mac ads. There may be PC companies just as screwed up as Apple, but there is an alternative to every single one of them.

Well Lets See

Apple Has.....

Tiger (Most Advanced Operating System to Date)
Itunes
Quicktime
Ipod
Iphone
Apple Tv
Final Cut Hd

So apple Doesnt Have anything going for them? :roll2:

Apple Updates thier operating System EVERY WEEK when does Windows update? :roll2:


And NO they dont charge for it :cool:
Thats why Apple is So expensive and ADVANCED You Do get what You pay for!

[The Artist]

i've read the back and forth here, and here's the bottom line when it comes to batteries, as the original question was asked

A red top is a starter battery. It is designed to start the car. A yellow top is a deep cycle. Sure anything can be ran when the car is on. A yellow top will let you (and is designed to) run electronics for hours (i've gone 6) with the car off and still be able to start it. Constantly draining a starter battery thru electronics will hurt the life of the battery, as well as it's performance. The bottom line is that you need to get a yellow top if you plan on running audio and/or video w/ the car off. Someone mentioned a higher output alternator, and that's a wise decision as well if you are going to have the car running

Optima's own website says use a yellow top for electronics... you can't go wrong when the manufacturer tells you what to use their products for

http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/product_info/automotive.html

[dandragonrage]

Originally posted by area3
Tiger (Most Advanced Operating System to Date)
Care to elaborate? It sucks at multitasking, has emo looks, has point releases that cost money...

Originally posted by area3
Itunes
Because DRMd music for the same price as a CD is great! To Emo college kids and adults that don't know better, at least.

Originally posted by area3
Quicktime
Even WMP is better than that POS.

Originally posted by area3
Ipod
Popular doesn't mean good. Meizu M6 is much better for a flash player, and I haven't looked into HD players as much simply because I don't care about them.

Originally posted by area3
Iphone
POS second gen GSM phone with a third-rate carrier. Shot down by Verizon, ooooown.

Originally posted by area3
Apple Tv
...You're just listing all their products, even though they have alternatives...

Originally posted by area3
Final Cut Hd
Because home users not only know what that is, but use it, right?


Originally posted by area3
Apple Updates thier operating System EVERY WEEK when does Windows update? :roll2:
Uhh... Every week.


GTFO fanboy.