3100 to a 3800 V6 swap

[95GT]

I've got a 95 GT sedan, I was wondering if anybody had done a 3800 swap on one of these or any Grand Am for that matter. I can get a donor car, a 95 Olds 88, the car is complete with damage to the rear. I think that'd make it easier because I'd have the wiring and the computer and the mounts. Any Comments or advise would be greatly appreciated.

[coupe]

If you have to ask, its over your head.

[04alyGT]

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=806301&sortby=&sortorder=
its not a simple bolt on project, not even close

[Matt95GT]

It has been discussed ad nauseam. Cliffnotes... way too much money and time will be required for a chance to make it work. A quote from someone (of the 3 known 3800 SC swaps into N-bodies)...

IT TOOK ABOUT ONE YEAR AND ABOUT 600 HOURS TO DO THE MOTOR CHANGE. HAD TO MAKE THE MOTOR MOUNT,EXHAUST,A/C LINES, FUEL LINES, AXLES AND HAD TO MAKE THE WIRING LOOM.

If you're looking for a project that's attainable and will give you a refreshed engine with good performance inprovements, do a 3400 swap. Your car is an ideal candidate for it.
www.3400swap.com

[dandragonrage]

Heads/cam/tune the 3400 while you're at it. IMO, if you're looking at an engine swap for power, a stock 3400 won't be enough. Might also consider 3.73 gearing (actually, you might consider doing that first).

[95GT]

Originally posted by coupe
If you have to ask, its over your head.
Ok.
Originally posted by 4576foxtrot
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=806301&sortby=&sortorder=
its not a simple bolt on project, not even close
I know it's probably a dumb question, I was told the automatic from my 3100 will bolt up to a 3800, Will the exhaust manifolds? The engine mounts are going to take some work, though. Now, is it easier to swap a 3400 because you can get parts from a newer grand am?

[04alyGT]

No its easier to swap a 3400 because its apart of the 60 degree engine family. The 3800 is a 90 degree engine.

[dandragonrage]

Yes, much easier. Check the site above.

[95GT]

Originally posted by ViperDVMan
As for dropping a 3800 into a Grand Am.....the bell housing patterns should be identical since they are on the same base engine. The only thing that might prevent it from fitting in a Grand Am is the front motor mount locations compared to the 3300, since no N-body used the 3800. If the front mounts are the same, then you just need a different wiring harness and ECM for the 3800. So does anyone know if the mounts are close? Because I could get some mounts from a 3.3 l GA and put them in mine.

[ManktheTank19]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IT TOOK ABOUT ONE YEAR AND ABOUT 600 HOURS TO DO THE MOTOR CHANGE. HAD TO MAKE THE MOTOR MOUNT,EXHAUST,A/C LINES, FUEL LINES, AXLES AND HAD TO MAKE THE WIRING LOOM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

^ Take it from a guy who did this mod on his 99 GA - he did it himself and I really dont think it is worth doing. You are better off doing the 3400 swap since you have the 3100

[95GT]

I've heard alot about the 3400, but I'm more of a 3800 guy, Is the 3300 a 90 degree engine?

[04alyGT]

No the 3300 is a 60, its the model of engine they used before the 3100 in GA's. Its only like a 5 hp gain over ours, and since its older it may not even give you that.
If you are going to go through all the work of an engine swap you might as well get a 3400.

[95GT]

I understand that it may be easier to do a 3400, But there are a lot of people who have done a 3400. I'd like to do a 3800 and I was gathering some knowledge about it. I'd just like to see if I could do it.

[dandragonrage]

If you want a 3800 car, GET A DIFFERENT CAR.

Seriously.

[95GT]

Seroiusly, I want my Grand Am to be different.

[dandragonrage]

Doesn't sound like you're capable of doing the work yourself, and if you could afford having someone else do it, you wouldn't have a 95 Grand Am to begin with.

It's above most of our heads, too.

Plan to spend a lot of money on it, even with a free engine.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by 95GT
Ok.

I know it's probably a dumb question, I was told the automatic from my 3100 will bolt up to a 3800, Will the exhaust manifolds? The engine mounts are going to take some work, though. Now, is it easier to swap a 3400 because you can get parts from a newer grand am?

No and no.

It's easier because you can use your exist trans, PCM and engine harness with the 3400.

Originally posted by 4576foxtrot
No the 3300 is a 60, its the model of engine they used before the 3100 in GA's. Its only like a 5 hp gain over ours, and since its older it may not even give you that.
If you are going to go through all the work of an engine swap you might as well get a 3400.

No, the 3300 is a 90 degree V6, just like the 3800. Regardless, that still doesn't really help in the context of swapping.

Originally posted by 95GT
I understand that it may be easier to do a 3400, But there are a lot of people who have done a 3400. I'd like to do a 3800 and I was gathering some knowledge about it. I'd just like to see if I could do it.

Just doesn't make sense to do a 3800 solely to "be different" - especially with all the fabrication and electrical nightmares required to make it work. A 3400 and a few mods to it will outperform a NA 3800 anyway. Also don't forget about the weight differences between the 92-98 and 99+... that 3400 is quite potent in the 95 chassis. There's a reason why it's the ideal swap for 3100 owners.

[04alyGT]

Lol oops brain fart on the 3300 part. Anyways, i assume your car is your daily driver so uhh sacrificing a year just to attempt to put a 3800 in is kind of not a good idea, but if you really actually truthfully want to pursue this thing i posted a link that searched for all the threads on the 3800 swap. It had 9 pages of results with like 20 threads per page so you may want to look around first.

[95GT]

Really, I'm swinging for a 3800 for the torque and because they don't die. We ran a 3800 TPI for 22 min. without oil or coolant at WOT and all it did was seize. It just kept starting. We took it apart and the only damage we found was a few scratches on the crank.

[95GT]

Originally posted by Matt95GT

No, the 3300 is a 90 degree V6, just like the 3800. Regardless, that still doesn't really help in the context of swapping.

Why not? It seems that it'd help a little.

[coupe]

OMG dude, seriously, this is a swap that even the most seasoned fabricaters would have an extremely hard time doing not to mention takes a god awful amount of time to do.

BTW, the 3800 is nothing special, it is by no means bullet proof.

[pontiac3100]

okay first off...
the 94 3100 160hp.lol!

the 4t60e is used in 3800's,3100's, and i'm not for sure but i think it was used in some caddy's.

your ga will be different if you swapped a 3400 into it.
or you can do a mms swap over to obd2 which inturn you'll be able to upgrade your pcm which in turn give's you more power.

the 3100 is a pretty strong engine too.
because myself, i almost killed my engine ehh...quite a few times.
due to not having enough oil.

they have problems just like us.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by dandragonrage
If you want a 3800 car, GET A DIFFERENT CAR.

Seriously. So if I want a V8 in my truck should I get a different truck...?

[urweak]

This is a difficult swap, but if you have your heart set on it, dont let anyone talk you out of it. Go and do it. But you have to understand, no one on this site, that posts anymore, has done this swap, so your not going to get much help. I would get some buddys together that knew their shit about cars, and just go at it.

[95GT]

Originally posted by urweak
This is a difficult swap, but if you have your heart set on it, dont let anyone talk you out of it. Go and do it. But you have to understand, no one on this site, that posts anymore, has done this swap, so your not going to get much help. I would get some buddys together that knew their shit about cars, and just go at it.
Its what I'm thinking about doing. Finally, some support.

[urweak]

Originally posted by 95GT
Its what I'm thinking about doing. Finally, some support.

just understand, your car is going to be down for awhile. And even when you do get it all together, there may be ALOT of troubleshooting to do. So unless you have another car you can drive everyday, i would suggest doing something else.

[RocketFast321]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
So if I want a V8 in my truck should I get a different truck...?

I don't know about you, but i plan on putting a 350 in my grand folks astro ext when i get it in a few years.

[swapped]

dude go for it. i dont know how the 3300 mounts into the earlier grand am but i know some people that did the swap. i'll look for the website and if i find it, i'll post it here, its not easy but it can be done. i did a swap in my 95 grand prix, but that requires no fabrication for mounts and is pretty direct. it required wiring harness, power steering lines, ac lines, and some other stuff i forgot about. I also did the same swap in my 90 regal, pretty much same deal, but the mount was different and i had to find the correct mount (nothing custom just finding the right one)

i'd be pretty interested in seeing the mount for a 3300 which is basically a 3800.

here is a couple pics, u can email the guy for help he's pretty friendly, his name is jim
http://home.comcast.net/~jimbutterfield/Grandamprojectcar.htm

[swapped]

also check out www.l67swap.com i know u just want a 3800 not necessarily a L67 but its a site with a lot of good info and friendly people.

[gectek]

not worth the sweat it would take, the 3400 has just a much tq on it that the 3800 NA has, and it is lighter, also it is a better design, has potential for 350 hp + that alot of guys are running, plus the above mentioned cars were an "easy" swap due to them already being offered with the 3800. the ga wasnt designed for it. and if you want to be original then what would u do with the 3800 when the 3400 is beating u then, let me guess, supercharge it??? not very original. if you want that just get a GP and go to the dark side...IMO GM kinda knows what they are doing when they design drivetrains and vehicles...but i may be wrong. if it were really worth doing, like the 350 swap into an S 10 or a 240 SX then an aftermarket company would have already made a kit. i dont see any

[95whitese]

I am a strong fan of the 3800 too, but I am only 16 and i don't have the tools/ resources to pull something off like that. If a 3300 is a 90 degree motor, then why don't you try to find a 92 Grand Am as a project car. i mean if you get the olds, it's not like you really need the grand am to have a motor, plus the 3800 was around then. Just something to think about.

[95GT]

It seems as though the 3.4 would be easier, and I've driven a vehicle with a 3.4. It's a pretty ballsy engine. Even though it's in my Mom's Venture. No offense to people who love that engine, I was just merely stating its a nice engine and I might do it if I can find a cheap one.

[golgo13]

Good luck if you decide to swap.

[JAGCustoms]

i was just wondering how much it would cost to have the engine Swap done from the 3100 to 3400. and anyone know what a new 3400 would cost? just wondering i prob. wouldn't do it but i can just dream right? lol

[Ralph]

well good luck with this like most people on this site I was looking to do an engine swap at first. I was also looking at the l67 and had a few conversations with the guy from new finish. To do this swap on him 99 he had to cut down grand prix axels down 2" to fit and do custom mounts. The 600 hours was just in merging the two PCMs together since one has to control the engine and the other has to control the cars electricals. Hell if you want to try go for it most have us have given up but I hope its not your DD.