More HP!

[Raziel79]

I have a 2000 Grand AM with a 2.4L Twin cam and I did have the idea of doing an engine swap. However after read a few post that ask the same question. I now what to make the engine I have now as fast as I can make it. As of now I'm just looking for more info and some web pages with info and parts that I can get.
Thanks

[VanishingImage]

have anything done to it now? How much you looking for and how much you willing to spend?

First steps should be new aftermarket air intake(WAI or CAI.....Warm Air Intake,Cold Air Intake) then custom cat-back exhaust. Thats for starters.

To get more,header,possible performance cams(read the Secret Cam swap,much cheaper cam setup than any companies cams) From there you need to decide,you want to go NA or boost.

[Raziel79]

I have not done a thing to it. My view on how much I'm willing to spend is the sky is the limit.

[urweak]

Use spyhunters build as frame work for your own. Also, look about 3-4 post below yours in this section (400+whp GA)

List of modifications
Bottom end:

9.5:1 JE slugs
eagle rods
bottom end balance/blueprint

head:

1995 2.3L intake cam
1992-1994 2.3L LO exhaust cam
stainless steel valves
bronze guides wooowooo
head work

2.3HO intake manifold
LS1 75mm throttle body

ebay log turbo manifold w/ 2.4L head flange
Garrett GT30R turbo
2.5inch downpipe
3inch exhaust w/ Apexi N1 "Turbo" muffler
TiAL 38mm wastegate
TiAL blow off valve
ebay intercooler

one step colder than stock NGK plugs
Walbro intank super fancy fuel pump
AEM Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
Dealership acquired GM Supercharger reflash for the 2.4L
HPtuners
750cc/72lb RC Engineering injectors
AEM Wideband

SPEC stage 3 clutch

[DontPassTheFence]

dude yea spy started out with a stock 99-01 LD9 blockand just went nuts on that engine. If you are looking for power through boost - his route is definitely the best documented and most feasible. - although you could just as easily use a T3 or T3/T4 hybrid turbo unit. (it depends on really what price you are looking to get and/or availability in your area)

[urweak]

Originally posted by DontPassTheFence
dude yea spy started out with a stock 99-01 LD9 blockand just went nuts on that engine. If you are looking for power through boost - his route is definitely the best documented and most feasible. - although you could just as easily use a T3 or T3/T4 hybrid turbo unit. (it depends on really what price you are looking to get and/or availability in your area)

yea, you can, but his ball bearing turbo is just so much more efficent thats why hes making great power.


Also, i would say go with the 2.3L oil pump swap.
http://www.quad4forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6173&highlight=oil+pump

[Raziel79]

Thanks for all your input. I'm thinking that I may start out slow, but I would like to end up were spy's car is at. I'm just having a hard time thinking about were to start.

I'm also looking for web sites that sale parts for my car if anyone know any please let me know so I can take a look.

I tryed to look at the 2.3L oild pump swap but the guide didn't want to load.

Thanks again.

[urweak]

Originally posted by Raziel79
Thanks for all your input. I'm thinking that I may start out slow, but I would like to end up were spy's car is at. I'm just having a hard time thinking about were to start.

I'm also looking for web sites that sale parts for my car if anyone know any please let me know so I can take a look.

I tryed to look at the 2.3L oild pump swap but the guide didn't want to load.

Thanks again.

i think you have to be a member. In which case its free, and if you want to make your TC fast Q4F is the place for you.

Also, what do you want for your car performance parts wise?

[Raziel79]

Ok I signed up, I can know see the pics now.

As for performance parts I'm looking for every to anything. From Air Intake, a performance chip and so on.

I feel like a little kid in a candy shop. This is the first car that is 100% mine and I feel that it's not going to die on me anytime soon. So that a little way I don't know were to start.

[Ralph]

I'm going to start getting to the engine work next winter season. I took care of the suspension first and am doing the breaks and 5-speed swap this summer. Just remember when driving fast make sure you breaks are good enough to stop fast.

[urweak]

Originally posted by Raziel79
Ok I signed up, I can know see the pics now.

As for performance parts I'm looking for every to anything. From Air Intake, a performance chip and so on.

I feel like a little kid in a candy shop. This is the first car that is 100% mine and I feel that it's not going to die on me anytime soon. So that a little way I don't know were to start.

any intake will do, just get one that connects to the top of the TB, you dont want the S-shaped one that connects to the side of the black box ontop of the TB.

You cant "chip" OBD-II cars, the only thing you can uses is tuning software, www.hptuners.com is what you want.

But you really just have to do your research alot more about what you want, if its a turbo, go read up on turbos and how to read compressor maps. if you want N/A power read up on cam profiles and how to run higher compression safly. I cant say a few magical words that will make you understand every complex detail you need to know to do a turn setup, or N/A build, or nitrous. You just have to read read and read, then read some more. Another great site to look at would be www.j-body.org , read what they are doing (if you want to turbo your car, read about what other people are doing with turbos)

Its not something you will know overnight, ive been reading a researching for years now, and still dont feel that i know enough to turbo a car and tune it right and all that.

[Raziel79]

Thanks for all the info. I would like to ask this before I start working on my engine. My question is my car has about 98,000 miles on it, should I even try or would upgrading the engine add life to it? I just hate to put a lot of money into it and then have it die on me a few mouth's down the road?

[urweak]

well your not going to be able to make alot of power with a stock motor, you might see 250hp in the best conditions before blowing it up or around 8psi-10psi. So your going to need to upgrade it to make serious power. And then all you need to do is pull the motor and buy rods and pistons to take boost, and other common performance mods to help it live under boost. And then just send it all off to a machine shop/engine builder to have it put together.

[Raziel79]

Then should I go for the engine swap for a V6 or should I just start thinking about trading it in? For a Grand Prix GXP

[Ralph]

good luck with the engine swap most of us started off with that idea till we noticed how much work it really is. If i were you I would just forge the engine and boost like spy's setup.

[urweak]

Originally posted by Raziel79
Then should I go for the engine swap for a V6 or should I just start thinking about trading it in? For a Grand Prix GXP

theres no need to swap to a V6, just build up the 2.4 you have. You going to have to build up that V6 to make power anyways, so you might aswell save yourself a step and build what you have.

Or you can woss out and buy a car thats already quick :roll2:

[kidlex01]

I was talking to one of my friends at NAPA and he said you could swap in an L52 3500 Vortec 3.5L into the GA's, it would be considerable if you had a 2.4L but not if you had a V6.

[Ralph]

lol you can swap anything into anything with enough time and money. honestly the ld9 has alot of potential just go with what you have

[Raziel79]

I'm not trying to woss out. I'm just looking for the bigger bang for the money. Every day I see my miles go up (because it's my only car)and the hopes of doing something with the car go down. But you have talked me into just staying with what I have.

So, do you guys have any more input on how to beef up this engine?

[Ralph]

if you want alot of power look at spy's build if you just want a little more pep gm supercharger

[DontPassTheFence]

oh lol! good luck at fitting a vortec in this car. unless you or someone you know REAL WELL is amazing with welding/fabricating, Id toss that idea out.

To start off on the road to spys build - JY some things:
try to find a mostly intact 2.3L QUAD4 HO motor (LG0 designation, the valve cover says "HIGH OUTPUT, QUAD 4" on it.)

You need to do some reading of course, but the intake manifold is a good start if you've never worked on an engine before. Next, try to swap the 2.3L oil pump, then replace the in-tank fuel pump with one that flows more, and you can clean out your fuel tank at the same time.
Since you are cresting 100K miles, the idea is to do a shit-ton of preventative maintenance WHILE you mod, to add power and retain some reliability.

The golden rule is:
CHeap, fast, reliable -- you can only choose 2.
I chose cheap and reliable, spy chose fast and reliable. Some Grand Ams just dont have ANY of these characteristics.

As you get more and more familiar with the 2.4L Twin Cam (LD9) engine, you will be able to perform more labor-intensive mods (hopefully) - but you will also need the right tools.

I suggest a full socket set, metric and standard measurements from 8mm-18mm, and from 1/16'' to 1'', also try to get some 5/32, 7/32, and 9/32 -- you'll be glad you have those dumbassed obscure sizes when you need them.

Air tools REALLY help when working on the suspension, I would know - as Ive rebuilt my entire front end twice now. If you think you have modded the suspension well enough, remember the sway bar endlinks, bushings, strut mounts, struts, ball joints, control arms, wheel bearings (integrated into the hub, usually just replace the entire wheel hub instead of pressing in new bearings), and of course the springs. Also, check your inner and outer tie rod ends for excessive play or leaking grease. (which sometimes translates into a looser-feel in the steering wheel, but not always)

If you dont already have a GT, go about obtaining ALL the fe3 suspension parts, and see about fitting a z51 rear sway bar from a beretta equpped with the z51 option.

Now, on to brakes.

I HIGHLY recommend hawk pads for spirited driving. Blank face rotors are usually fine enough, but you can always try slotted/dimpled if you wish. I would stay away from cross-drilled though... unless the manufacturer is highly reputable.

After you have the car running quite nicely, and with a few quad4 parts installed you'll be quite power-happy, the next best idea would be to do a complete tear-down on the engine, grab the full service manual for the 2.4L LD9 from HELMS and go to town.

Grab new pistons, rings, con-rods, new head studs/bolts, new head gasket, maybe have your block/head honed/ported/polished. The best idea would be to match the ports on the head with the intake and exhaust manifolds you'll be using with the turbo. Since its hard to come by turbo kits for this car, the exhaust mani will have to be completely custom. Hopefully whomever does your exh mani will be helpful enough to reshape the ports from the diseased shape of stock, to a more rounded oval shape. Then you can get the ports on the head matched to those. Same with the intake, it would be helpful to get the ports more round (stock they look a bit like a B laying down on its side)

After getting the air delivery down, and knowing you already have a nice fuel pump in place, grab some injectors with more flow (from spys build) - this is what will need to be tuned correctly with the HPTuners software. I also believe you will need the 1 or 2 bar MAP sensor from GM to get it all to work right. (as well as a few other random parts Im forgetting, Im sure)

Assuming the engine is perfect, youll need a larger diameter exhaust system, probably 2.5'' pressure bent or larger if you run higher boost (15+)

Now the car theoretically runs great attached to a dyno (after several weeks of tuning and testing, doing it over and over and over again) - youll need some stuff in the interior to keep track of the car. A boost guage is pretty obvious, wideband a:f ratio gauge, trans. temp, oil pressure, oil temp, batt voltage, and injector duty cycle all would be good ideas.

If you opt for the manual trans swap, Id do it before working on the engine (as you mentioned) but its DAMN HARD. Getting the parts may not even be all that easy anymore. A proper flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate, throwout bearing, clutch pedal, shifter assembly, shifter linkages, all the associated hardware, and all the associated wiring (youll probably need a new speedo and center console as well) - not too mention a new PCM I bet.

Its usually easier to just get a manual car, or just give in and use the automatic. in most cases the automatic will take the abuse better. - with a shift kit, trans oil cooler, and better trans oil it can be passable.

Now after all that expect to be out AT LEAST $8000-$10000 assuming you do most of the work yourself (sans the dyno tuning, since the dyno tech usually takes care of that) -- Even more if you get a new turbo, and do the manual trans swap


Alright thats all Ive got -- if I screwed anything up, just tell me - I know Im not always amazingly accurate posting at 2 in the morning ^.^

[2K SE]

GMSC is a pretty good start. I am loving the extra HP.

[loud2kse]

^^^ me too.

And you CAN get a vortech on hese motors. I used to have one.

[DontPassTheFence]

yea, but with the vortec, that was when you had the loopy tubing, that 180º bend, right? I know it can be done, but you switched since the alternative is easier/cheaper, eh?

[loud2kse]

the obly reason for the hellacious bends was to use an intercooler. Without the intercooler, it was just one straight pipe with two 90* bends. Straight from the blower to the TB

and I switched because the vortech blower didn't really build boost till like 4k rpm, and it was also hitting one of my hard brake lines, which actually caused me to lose my breaks once. and RSM's brackects and bearings were kinda sub-par.

I have a nice surprise in store after this weekend too. ;)