recharging ac

[ssvejiita]

okay..my ac was leaking over a period of months some http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_censored.gif ddnt mention that the valve that sits by the radiator was leaking..or somehow got dirty or broken..anyway i just replaced that valve..and im wondering..if i take it to a shop to get recharged..its around 69$ for the service..plus freon....wat if i bought a bunch of do it yourself'ers..how many would i need?
i guess im bored and im really trying to watch my cash..and has anyone used those recharging units? i hav no clue on how to use one...and if someone can help me find a dust cover for that valve..for some reason they arnt available at the dealer..atleast to the one i go to

[Nighthawk243]

As far as the dust cap for the low side, you can pull one from an N-Body at a junkyard. Look for a 99+ GA or an Oldsmobile Alero. They should have the same AC system.

As far as recharging the system, a can of R134a (DO NOT USE FREON, aka R12. It is INCOMPATABLE with the systems used after 1995) with the hose to do the charging at Autozone or similiar store, usually for a decent price (Way under 69$). If you did a flush of your A/C system, you will probably need to add a charge of oil too. If you didn't, you may be able to just use a thing of straight refridgerant.

Charging it isn't difficult. Hook up the hose and can to the low side, and then puncture the can using the mechanism on the hose. When you do this, turn your car on, and put it to full A/C. This'll run the compressor, and also pull the refridgerant out of the can, and put it into the system. Once you have the good amount of charge in, close the hose, turn the car off, and remove the hose. Put the dust cap on, and you should be set.

[ssvejiita]

ok so no freon..i guess they wulda known that at the shop...i ddnt flush the system..it just leaked consistantly for a period,.and when i replaced the valve wat little was left leaked out...do you think one of those cans would be enough to fill the entire system?.and how would i kno if its completely charged?

thanks again

[ssvejiita]

one more thing..if the valve at the highest point next to the radiator is the low side..wherrr is the high side? and i shuld atttach the r134 to the low side rite?

[Nighthawk243]

The low side is the closest to the compressor. The high side is up toward the top of the radiator (at least on mine). You always attach it to the low side when charging.

As far as the number of cans needed, depends on the size. Usually a 12 ounce can will fill the system alright. As far as knowing whether the system is charged, most of those hoses do have a gauge on it. Just make sure it is in the charged region.

[SE2000]

Don't worry about freon, you won't be able to find it anyways. As far as your system, usually the receiver dryer should be replaced on any system that has lost all it refrigerant. But you can get a charge can with a guage and oil in it for about $20. If that's not enough, get a refill can.

[ssvejiita]

the reciever dryer eh?...how expensive and how easy is it to swap that out?......wherr is it located?

[beavercountyemt]

I thought you had to put a vacume on the system and vacume it our first that way the system will take the charge. If not the a/c system will not take any freon as the system does not have negative pressure to take in the r134 in. Thats what i did when i put a new compressor on my last car and it took 134a

[SE2000]

You can get a charge without a vacuum if you don't have it full of air. If you open it up, you have to vacuum it to do it right.

[ssvejiita]

okay..well i replaced the valve on the high side...it completely drained out..do u think i would need to vacuum?

[pokesmot]

Originally posted by ssvejiita
okay..well i replaced the valve on the high side...it completely drained out..do u think i would need to vacuum?

yes you need to get it vacuumed!


I replaced a bunch of stuff on my car (accumulator, condensor, compressor) and just paid some guy $100 to charge it with R12 because it was cheaper than a retrofit and R12 is colder :)

in your case your car is equipped with R134a stock so that is what you should recharge it with, and imo its probably better to just pay someone $60-100 to vacuum and charge it for you, because the equipment cost to do it yourself would exceed $100 easily + the person with the equipment is likely to know how to use the equipment better than you :)

its not too hard to do, but if your system has been sitting open to the environment for a while you should probably replace your accumulator aka reciever drier, and fill it with the correct PAG oil (something like 6 oz of oil)

the accumulator contains a silica substance used to absorb moisture, and it also acts as a resevoir for refridegerent oil.

hope this helps, if you have any other questions ask.

[ssvejiita]

thanks for the info....r12 huh...would i be able to swap and recharge with that instead..and my system wasnt open at all..it was just leaking..and i replaced the valve when i had the new part...and whyd u replace all those parts on your system?

[pokesmot]

Originally posted by ssvejiita
thanks for the info....r12 huh...would i be able to swap and recharge with that instead..and my system wasnt open at all..it was just leaking..and i replaced the valve when i had the new part...and whyd u replace all those parts on your system?

R12 is illegal to use now because of the negative effects it causes on the environment if it leaks, but there is still craploads of it left if you know the right people you can get it done.

you could possibly get your system reharged with R12 but only if you are 100% certain that your AC system currently has double end capped PAG oil. PAG oil can be used on both R134a and R12 systems provided it is marked as double end capped.

R12 systems are normally equipped with Ester oil, PAG and Ester oil should not be mixed, nor should R134a be mixed with R12, even residual amounts will cause rapid deterioration of AC components, mostly just the seals inside the AC compressor will wear out fast.

There are a few reasons I changed my compressor, accummulator, and condensor.

1 - my condensor was all beat to snot, all of the bottom fins were bent flat so there is no way it could possibly work as efficently as it was meant. The condensor is used to remove heat from the refridgerant, and if the condensor isnt in good shape your AC system will suck. I was able to get a replacement for $100 US.

2 - my ac compressor hadnt been used in years, and it was loaded with Ester oil which is not compatible with R134a... I was under the assumption I needed to charge my system witrh r134a because R12 was illegal, so I swapped it for a new one for about $200 US. It would REALLY suck paying to get the system charged and finding out the compressor is shot, or have the compressor fail later on down the road.

3 - my accumulator was 13 years old, and my ac system was open for a while so the silica substance would no longer absorb moisture as it should. Also, as i mentioned before the accumulator also acts as a resevoir for compressor oil; which in my case contianed Ester oil which was no good for a R134a charge.

It wasnt until I went to get my system charged that they told me they could charge it with R12 for $100 cash!!

so, I went with R12; I used PAG oil because I thought i was getting R134a but fortunatly the PAG oil I used was double end capped so it is compatible with both R134a and R12.


**********************************************

Based on what you have told me, I think your best bet is to get R134a charged into your ac system. It's what your AC system was designed for, and what it had before so it will work best without the possiblity of part failure down the road.


hope this helps!

http://www.nichols.nu/tip306.htm
"As a result of much research and debate within the refrigerant community we decided to keep the system "R12". Though conversion to R134a is very simple, we find R12 to provide better heat exchange potential during times when air movement across the condenser (heat exchanger) is nominal ... such as at idle or slow speeds; The benefit for example felt most when you are stuck in city traffic on a hot
humid day."

http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-55028.html


"In teh begining R12 was colder because the AC systems for R134a hadn't caught up. However, R134a systems today (In new cars) are just as cold as R12 of 10 years ago. The two are NOT interchangable. You need one or the other. You can convert a R12 system to 134a, but you need to convert your entire system. Basically you change all the fittings, evacuate the R12, and many would argue change the compressor as well. "

[Nighthawk243]

Yep, since you drive a 99, go with 134a, as the entire system was designed to use it, and it only. Plus, if you ever need to recharge the system, the 134a is readily available in alot of stores (Walmart, Autozone...etc). R12, on the otherhand, is not able to be purchased at retail outlets (And you have to find someone who does have it and is willing to risk using it)

[ssvejiita]

thanks for all the input guys

[SE2000]

Just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
R12 is legal and will be for a long time. It is for older cars only.

You cannot put r12 in a newer car designed for r134a. There is no advantage if you could

[pokesmot]

Originally posted by SE2000
Just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
R12 is legal and will be for a long time. It is for older cars only.


I figured it was illegal to use R12 but I did a little research and found this

"Unless the laws have changed, it's still legal to sell and use R12 that was made before it was banned, but new supplies cannot be manufactured."

so, its only legal if it was manufactured before the ban, and its ok to charge an AC system with R12 if it originally came with it?

I was originally under the impression that the ban not only included the ban of manufacturing R12, but also the charging of it due to its negative effects on the environment.

What exactly is the law on this anyway?

[warbirdta03]

I would highly recommend you have your a/c system vaccumed out. If you opened up the system air is now trapped in your lines, etc. and recharging it without vaccuming will result in poor cooling.

[wtavares]

How do you perform this vacuuming exactly ? The A/C of my 3100 97 just quit working. Compressor and clutch are engaging. I just had the radiator replaced, and I thought the R134 in the circuit was gone. I tried to fill it up using a kit, but it seems not to take any from the can, as there is enough pressure in the line. Any suggestions ? TKS.

[messiveian]

i dont believe you have to vaccum the system out if you buy the recharge kits that actually spray into the AC system

[wtavares]

OK, the radiator I replaced was the engine`s, not the A/C`s. I got to attach the can to the right port, the lower one near the compressor. I`m just not getting any differential pressure to suck the R134 from the can... What should I do ?
Tks.

[Nighthawk243]

Originally posted by messiveian
i dont believe you have to vaccum the system out if you buy the recharge kits that actually spray into the AC system

If you're adding into a closed system, you don't need to. But you do need to vacuum if it was opened to the outside air.

The A/C system is a closed unit. It is not meant to be exposed to the outside air.

[daman]

People.....when ever a system has totally discharged the right way to do it is to pull a deep vacuum and then charge the right amount(factory spec)of freon into that vacuum, if you do not you will have moisture in the system and that's a slow death...you do not want air in the system!!!