Won't start, won't do anything! lol

[styka]

Hey all,

I've searched and searched around and can't seem to find an explanation for the problem with my car. When I turn the key it won't make any sound what-so-ever. I have full power to everything inside and no lights dim at all or anything when I turn the key to the on position. I am uploading a video to maybe shed some more light on what i'm explaining here. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Also, I took it into the dealership where I purchased my car, and they don't seem to be of any help. They fixed it 4 days ago, but now it's back doing the same thing. I'm thinking they might of tapped the starter so it would start. I have tried that and it's not helping :(

Here is the video...

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/styka2002/?action=view&current=problem.flv


Thanks!!

Dan

[Nighthawk243]

Might be a bad starter... I'm not even hearing it crank.

You should be able to take it back to the dealer, and have them re-do it. They should have a warranty on their work.

[rixGAphx]

Have you serviced your battery cables?

Check your entire charging system: Alternator, Battery, and,........
BATTERY CABLES/CONNECTIONS:

GA Batt Cable Service

Battery cable ends must be clean and tight and shiny bright.
Even the best new alternator and the best new battery can't provide adequate power (volts and amps) if the connections are so dirty/loose/corroded that power doesn't flow thru them.
Bad connections will also kill both the alternator and the battery very quickly.

So, inspect/clean/repair/replace/tighten all THREE ends of both cables to provide maximum flow of electrical power.
Disconnect cables: NEG (Black) first, then POS (Red).
Cut the molded rubber boots from the battery connections, since water seeps thru them and corrodes the copper wire into useless powder.
(This step is VERY important. You can't just look at the outside and think, "They look alright".)

Dissolve corrosion with a paste solution of baking soda and water, applied with an old toothbrush.
Scrape/sand/wire-brush all the metal (cable ends and batt terminals) to shiny metal.
In an emergency, Coca-Cola poured over the corrosion will partially-clean it.

Pay attention to the Body Ground: This is a smaller Black (Neg) wire that comes from the battery terminal and attaches directly to the bodywork, somewhere near the left (Driver) side hood edge. This is a source of rust, and must be kept clean and shiny. (This is the ‘3rd end’ of the NEG cable.)
The POS cable has a ‘3rd end’ that connects inside the Main Junction Box, about 12 inches from the battery.

Reconnect cables: POS (Red) first, then NEG (Black); this is OPPOSITE of the way you disconnected them.
Replace the cut-off boots with new aftermarket slip-on rubber boots to protect against short-circuiting while allowing for future inspection and service.
* * *
Still having trouble? Verify that the heavy cable from the alternator, around the back of the engine and connecting to the starter solenoid, has good connections and conductivity. The alternator can't charge the battery if this cable is bad.

Weird things happen to GA's when the cables aren't in pristine shape.
ABS is a particularly sensitive system, and will often show a random 'ABS' light though nothing else appears to be wrong.

Battery cable/connection service is necessary and cheap ($5 for new rubber boots), so there's no downside to servicing them immediately.

Good luck.
-Rick

[styka]

When I got my car towed, he said the battery was fine. Also, the dealership said it started to crank when they tapped the starter. They will tow it back to their place, but will still charge me for the service to work on my car again.. but I don't want to send it back to them because there is no point of re-paying them when they didn't fix it the first time. :( I want to see if I can do it myself, or if I know for sure it's the starter...so I can go to a different shop and replace the starter

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by styka
When I got my car towed, he said the battery was fine. Also, the dealership said it started to crank when they tapped the starter. They will tow it back to their place, but will still charge me for the service to work on my car again.. but I don't want to send it back to them because there is no point of re-paying them when they didn't fix it the first time. :( I want to see if I can do it myself, or if I know for sure it's the starter...so I can go to a different shop and replace the starter Then step ONE is the 20-minute, low-cost ($5 replacement boot) Battery CABLE service.

It doesn't matter if the battery is BRAND NEW, the f#$%ing POS cable with the molded-on red rubber boot is the achilles heel of Grand Ams.
Cut-off the boot and see what's in there.

I went thru 4 batteries and three alternators before I discovered this problem.
The faulty battery cable will allow full-power to the ignition switch and lights, while preventing adequate power from going to the solenoid.

Tapping the solenoid *may* indeed work, and the problem may in fact be the solenoid.
But before you go to that trouble and expense, you would be well-served to do the simple, but necessary, battery cable service.

Good luck,
-Rick

[styka]

Ok, thanks a lot Rick!

Dan

[SE2000]

First clean the connector at the starter. I bet that's where your problem is.
If you can clean the cable, you should be able to replace the starter yourself. And save dealer markup and the towing charges

[Nighthawk243]

Originally posted by styka
When I got my car towed, he said the battery was fine. Also, the dealership said it started to crank when they tapped the starter. They will tow it back to their place, but will still charge me for the service to work on my car again.. but I don't want to send it back to them because there is no point of re-paying them when they didn't fix it the first time. :( I want to see if I can do it myself, or if I know for sure it's the starter...so I can go to a different shop and replace the starter

I would avoid that dealer then in all future transactions then. If they do not GUARENTEE their work, then they should not be in business. Any good garage I know of will, at no charge, go back in and fix something again if it quits out not long after they 'fixed' it. It was four days, and their 'fix' failed. Quality workmanship should last much longer than a measly four days.

You can report them to the ASE while you're at it...

[HeyDace]

If they knew it would start by tapping the starter, why didn.t they replace it? That is typical of a dead spot in the soliniod or starter motor.


Reporting them to ASE would do nothing. ASE is just for certification and not a data base of bad garages.

If they charged you for a repair and misdiagnosed it, they should not charge you again but it would be hard pressed to prove. Go elsewhere.

[styka]

Ok, update on my situation.

I checked the battery cables, all look dandy. I got it towed to my neighbours car shop and when it got there.... it magically started. They think something may be loose? He said everything checked out fine. Could it maybe be the starter then..?

Dan

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by styka
I checked the battery cables, all look dandy. :roll:

me ---> horse ---> water :shrug:

Suit yourself.

[SE2000]

At least he searched first.

[1CoopGT03]

I think Dace is right. Dead spot in the starter. The vibration form towing was probably enough to jar it so that it would start.

[Nighthawk243]

Originally posted by HeyDace
If they knew it would start by tapping the starter, why didn.t they replace it? That is typical of a dead spot in the soliniod or starter motor.


Reporting them to ASE would do nothing. ASE is just for certification and not a data base of bad garages.

If they charged you for a repair and misdiagnosed it, they should not charge you again but it would be hard pressed to prove. Go elsewhere.


Yes, but ASE can pull the certification.

[styka]

Ok all... update time. My car died again 2 days ago... excact same problem. I got it towed to a mechanic that was approved by my warranty company. They said it's definitely not the starter and that it's most likely my main computer. They have had it in the garage for a day and a half and they still don't exactly know what it is... any ideas? If it is the computer... how bad will it hit me to get fixed? I already gotta pay 280 bux for the diagnostic tests! ughhhh

[SE2000]

You still haven't followed our suggestions. Why not do them?

[DSMMAN]

Originally posted by SE2000
You still haven't followed our suggestions. Why not do them?



If your not going to take the suggestions and try them then why even ask ?
Not trying to be an ass, but several people have offered very good suggestions here to try to help you.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by styka
I already gotta pay 280 bux for the diagnostic tests!Why are you considering paying them ANYTHING???
Didn't you already pay for a repair once?
Why aren't you jumping up-and-down yelling at them that their repair is faulty and is stranding you?
Tell them to fix their repair, and you're not going to pay a 'diagnostic charge' for them to figure out what they did wrong.


Standard 'Diagnostic Fee' is about $80US; this is just for them to plug-in to your OBD-II port and read the computer.
Then hourly rates apply as they do other examination/testing to narrow-down the focus and identify the problem.
* * *

Wait.
You have an extended warranty???
Why aren't you jumping up and down and yelling at THEM, so they can yell at the shop to fix the f'ing car properly?

ALL of this diagnostic *should* be covered by your 'extended warranty', along with the parts and labor of the actual repair.
'Extended Warranty' companies routinely cover the cost of a replacement computer, though it should be a last resort.

Your out-of-pocket *should* be ONLY the deductible ($50, $100??) for each 'repair'.
Didn't you already pay this once, for 'this repair'?

All of this depends upon the exact coverage of the 'extended warranty (which isn't actually a warranty, rather it's an insurance program).
Some policies don't cover power windows/power doors/hoses/belts.

Good luck,
-Rick

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by styka
Ok all... update time. My car died again 2 days ago... excact same problem. I got it towed to a mechanic that was approved by my warranty company. They said it's definitely not the starter and that it's most likely my main computer. They have had it in the garage for a day and a half and they still don't exactly know what it is... any ideas? If it is the computer... how bad will it hit me to get fixed? I already gotta pay 280 bux for the diagnostic tests! ughhhh
Dan, your PCM has nothing to do with the car cranking or not. AFAIK, starter current doesn't go through the PCM, nor does the PCM regulate the starter in any way.*

Starter current is only dependent on the ignition switch and cables/wiring (and probably a relay or two since I bet GM moved away from high current ignition switches since the recall on the 96-98 cars).

*Unless that's changed in 2002 for some reason, but I don't think so--I can't see why they would do that.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
Dan, your PCM has nothing to do with the car cranking or not. AFAIK, starter current doesn't go through the PCM, nor does the PCM regulate the starter in any way.*

Starter current is only dependent on the ignition switch and cables/wiring (and probably a relay or two since I bet GM moved away from high current ignition switches since the recall on the 96-98 cars).

*Unless that's changed in 2002 for some reason, but I don't think so--I can't see why they would do that. Didn't somebody demonstrate conclusively here about a month ago, that newer ('02??) Passlock affected not only fuel injection but also engine cranking?

[MantaGreen97]

Hmm, you tell me Rick--that's the first I'm hearing of that. Not saying it isn't true (if it was conclusively proven I guess it has to be) I'm just saying I'd like to see the thread at least ;)

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by MantaGreen97
Hmm, you tell me Rick--that's the first I'm hearing of that. Not saying it isn't true (if it was conclusively proven I guess it has to be) I'm just saying I'd like to see the thread at least ;) Well it surprised me too, but I just shutup rather than argue.

Since I no longer own a GM, and it never affected my old '96 GA, I really don't give a shiat about Passlock. :D

Sorry, don't have time to search for it right now, but it was here, in Problems and Solutions.

[styka]

I took it to a different place than the dealership where I bought the car because my warranty company deals with the mechanic who has it now. My warranty won't cover the high-tech electronics. Also, when I was driving, I had my 'security' light on most of the time... if that helps with anything, lol

Dan

[sudden_impulse]

If the security light is on, that usually means Passlock is having issues (if I'm wrong, feel free to correct), and if what Rick remembers is true, that Passlock deals with the starting on a 2002, than I'd say your Passlock is screwed up. Shouldn't one of their diagnostic tests show why the security code was showing, or isn't that part of the PCM?