Running REAL rough.

[JeremiahCoffel]

Hey all. I've got a problem, all of a sudden my car is very hesitant on acceleration. While sitting in the car, with the car running, I hit the gas pedal and it sputtered to get up to 'speed.' Like the car is getting too much gas, it seems like it's flooding itself. I have absolutely no idea why it started doing this. Also, when accelerating, the car vibrates A LOT! It almost feels like it's out of alignment, but could it be other things, like the transmission, or mounts, 'cause when I slightly increase the throttle, it doesn't do it as much, while at the same speed. It does it more when I push the gas more. Any help or suggestions, or even input would be greatly appreciated!

[Matt95GT]

Is the SES light on or off? Might need more info... happens on cold start or warm start? Throttle position? (idle, partial, full) etc.

Due to how common ignition system problems are on the Quad's, I would start there...
-plugs (age, gap, type - use the stock AC Delco platinums and confirm gap)
-plug 'boots' (deterioration, signs of arching)
-IDI housing (micro cracks in the plastic, signs of arching, etc)

[rixGAphx]

Also check all three of your engine mounts.
At specific rpm's, engine vibrations 'harmonize' or reinforce each other, and bad mounts will increase the 'harmonizing' effect even more, as well as transmit the vibrations to the rest of the car.

If the engine is so extremely 'rich' that it's causing this, then you would probably smell raw gasoline exiting the tailpipe.
A faulty Fuel Pressure Regulator could cause this.
But your CEL should be flashing all over the place because of this.
And you will soon kill the catalytic converter.

Good luck,
-Rick

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by rixGAphx

But your CEL should be flashing all over the place because of this.
And you will soon kill the catalytic converter.


Maybe. The PCM on the Quad 4 is rather tolerant. I've done some amazingly bad things without getting an SES light. :lol:

[JeremiahCoffel]

No the SES light is not coming on. The boots and spark plugs are new. I didn't use the AC Delco though, I used Autolite. Here when I get some more money, I planned on buying a new IDI housing (I think this is what I was thinking of, the part that the boots go on?) I didn't check over them too much, but I shook the engine to see if the mounts were really bad, but it stayed, and when ever I rev the engine from the throttle cable, it doesn't shake. I'm beginning to think it's just the transmission doing this, 'cause when ever I drive it 'bogs' down while driving. I went up to my mothers house today, and there's a fairly steep hill going to her house, and I can usually get up the hill in 4th gear, and sometimes 5th depending how good of a start I get. Anyway, I went there oday and the car wouldn't even make it in 4th, I had to get up it in 3rd, as I was going 50, and 4th gear just wouldn't stay up with the motor, like it was slipping. At the top of the hill, I was doing about 35MPH too. How much are new transmission, or possibly a good used one? I'm fairly sure it IS the transmission as, the car has 200000 miles on it, and the transmission is the one that came with it. I plan on buying some Penzoil Synchromesh manual trans. fluid to see if that works, 'cause I think the transmisison has very little fluid, but I don't think it will.

Here's the things I will be gettin' soon :

New Clutch Kit
IDI Housing
AC Delco Plugs
Transmission (Possibly)
Fuel Pressure Regulator
MAP Sensor
PCV
Hoses all around
Injectors
and a few others that I can't think of. Seeing the car does have 200,000 miles on it, I think it would be very appropriate for these.

[rixGAphx]

'95 4-cyl, 200k miles, 5-spd manual tranny.
No CEL.
New AutoLite plugs, unknown type.

The plugs could well be your problem, especially if they are not AutoLite 'platinum' plugs.
'Regular' (non-platinum) plugs will go bad quickly in this engine, and give you very crappy performance in less than 3000 miles after changing them.
Install new AC Delco 'RapidFire' plugs, gapped to 0.060. Period.

To test the engine mounts:
1. Look at the 'motor mount' (topat the passenger end of the engine) and verify there is no space above the bracket that comes from the engine; there should be thick rubber above and below.
2. Open hood, set the parking brake, chock the tires, and put the engine in N.
Have an assistant sit in the car and start the engine.
Have the asst 'goose' the gas pedal.
Observe how much the engine 'leans' forward/backward. It shouldn't 'lean' more than a total of 1-1/2 inches.
3. It won't 'shake' or vibrate visibly under these test conditions.
And you pushing on that 300 lbs of metal isn't going to 'shake' anything, even if you have the crappiest mounts on the planet.

You haven't said there's an odor of raw gasoline to the exhaust, so I'm going to *assume* there isn't.
Even though you describe the engine as "car is getting too much gas," I'm interpreting the symptoms as the OPPOSITE.

Change your fuel filter.
Personally, I'll lay even money this is your current problem: that there isn't enough fuel passing through it.
How long since you replaced it?
Also check the air filter, since it produces the same symptom.

Finally, you apparently have a faulty understanding of how manual transmissions work.
They don't, canNOT, 'slip'.
The CLUTCH can slip, and there's no mistaking that feeling.
But when you shift gears, you either get a nice, smooth 'crisp' shift or you get a grinding, sloppy shift (and it might not even go into gera).
But once it is in gear, IT CANNOT SLIP. Period.
Automatics, which use hydraulic pressure to create their 'gears', can slip all-to-hell under many circumstances. But manuals cannot.
So the tranny slipping isn't your problem.

Your problem is that the engine isn't producing enough power/torque as you climb the hill to mom's.
Downshifting to a lower gear provides greater torque multiplication (which is what gear ratios do), allowing you to climb the steepness.

Good luck,
-Rick

[LargeFish]

My gut feel is the autolite plugs and the infamous coil cover are likely suspects.

[JeremiahCoffel]

I have only had the car for about 2 months, and I have only put about 6-700 miles on the car. The fuel filter needs to be changed, badly, but right now I have no money. I have order several parts for my car, and will be replacing them, once they are paid for.

To Rick,
You misunderstood me saying, 'Like it was slipping.' I used this to give a fair idea of what it felt like to me to best describe my situation. My car does smell like raw gas, and I honestly think it's running lean, and have meant to state this, but it always skips my mind while on here.

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by JeremiahCoffel
...The fuel filter needs to be changed, badly, but right now I have no money.
Were the replacement Auolite spark plugs 'platinum' (about $7 each) or 'regular' (about $3 each)?
If not platinum, then their tips will have been burned by the high energy of the GA's ignition.
At the very least, remove them, wirebrush/file the crud from the electrodes, and re-gap them to 0.060.

While you have them out would be a could time to examine the deposits on them.
Different deposits, in terms of dryiness and color, indicate different conditions in the combustion chamber.
For a good visual comparison, see:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html

This would also be a cood time to run a compression test on the engine.
Checker/AutoZone/etc. allow tools to be borroed, often for free. See about a 'cylinder compression tester.
This will let you know how bad the rings and valves are leaking on this old engine, and whether there's a 'dead' cylinder from some hole or crack or whattnot.
You misunderstood me saying, 'Like it was slipping.' I used this to give a fair idea of what it felt like to me to best describe my situation.OK, I better-understand your analogy now.

But my statement still stands:
The symptom you describe, of decreasing pulling ability gears as you ascend the hill in the higher gears, canNOT be caused by the manual transmission.

A manual either works nicely, it works but grinds, or it doesn't work AT ALL.
A manual cannot provide 'poor' pulling ability.

Contemplating the tranny as possible source of the present problem isn't helping.
Though your tranny may have troubles, the present problem is in the engine.

My car does smell like raw gas, and I honestly think it's running lean. These are almost mutually-exclusive conditions.

* Does it smell like gasoline under the hood?
This would mean a leak in the fuel line, or at the FPR.

* Does it smell like gasoline at the tailpipe?
This indicates un-burned gasoline leaving the combustion chamber.
* * Often casued by a RICH (not lean) condition from the fuel injection; or faulty FPR.
* * Often caused by spark plugs that are fouled or otherwise not sparking properly.
* * *

Also, please answer Matt's original questions:
* Does this (shaking, and poor performance) happen when:
- The engine is started cold (in the morning)?
- The engine is started warm (as when restarting after popping in somwhere quickly)? or,
- Both cold and warm?

And,
* Is this condition most prevalent at:
- Idle?
- Partial throttle?
- Full-throttle?
- All conditions?

There are different computer circuits, and engine devices, at work during these differeing conditions (cold, warm; idle, mid-throttle, WOT), so knowing when the troubles happen is a good way to isolate the problem.
We have various cheap, or free, methods of checking-out some things if we know which direction to look.

Standing by,
-Rick

[LargeFish]

Actually the stock plugs, at least on the '94 are not platinum, they are 85 cent Delcos! Can't imagine the '95 is different, but you never know...

[rixGAphx]

Originally posted by LargeFish
Actually the stock plugs, at least on the '94 are not platinum, they are 85 cent Delcos! Can't imagine the '95 is different, but you never know... OOP's!!!

Must be an old-fashioned ignition, in the range of 10-15,000 volts.

So regular plugs and about 0.035 gap?

[JeremiahCoffel]

The problems occur on every start, which is giving a rough idle, but calms down with a little gas. Partial and full throttle messes with this, especially full throttle. I know one of my injectors have a leak, which could just be the seal, but I have ordered all the necesarry parts for new injectors. Warm and cold starts, it doesn't matter, I still have extremely poor performance, but I have noticed that it's increasingly worse on a warm start.

[Brad97GS]

I'd pull off the engine cover and check the coil housing for cracks. It's free and easy to do. If you see any cracks or black streaks (from arching electricity), it's definitely bad. It could still be bad if you don't notice these things, but it's worth a look.

[rixGAphx]

From your first post 5 days ago:Originally posted by JeremiahCoffel
Like the car is getting too much gas, it seems like it's flooding itself.
Today:
I know one of my injectors has a leak...I think the leaking injector might be causing the "too much gas" and "flooding."

Just a hunch :roll:

Replace the leaking injector, and get back to us.
NOTHING we ponder or say or do will matter worth a damn until the 'leaking injector' is fixed.

Best of luck,
-Rick


PS:
Just out of curiosity, how is it that you 'know' an injector is leaking?
If you have raw gasoline dribbling out of the fuel rail and pooling on the engine, that isn't a 'leaking injector', that's a 'leaking O-ring' and that gas will eventually ignite; don't drive 'til that's repaired.

[LargeFish]

Originally posted by rixGAphx
OOP's!!!

Must be an old-fashioned ignition, in the range of 10-15,000 volts.

So regular plugs and about 0.035 gap?

Well it's a pretty modern integrated direct ignition, and the voltage is high enough to cause all the trouble noted with the coil housings. Can't recall the proper gap off the top of my head, should be in the owner's manual.

[RazorDX]

.035 for the Quad 4s.

[Matt95GT]

Again, triple check ignition system... there's lots of good advice in this thread about it.

Originally posted by LargeFish
My gut feel is the autolite plugs and the infamous coil cover are likely suspects.

I agree.

I really doubt it's the transmission... keep in mine the misfires simply might not happen until the engine is under load.


Originally posted by LargeFish
Actually the stock plugs, at least on the '94 are not platinum, they are 85 cent Delcos! Can't imagine the '95 is different, but you never know...

Think they are actually... the OM stated 100,000 mile change interval and all.

[LargeFish]

Originally posted by Matt95GT
Think they are actually... the OM stated 100,000 mile change interval and all.

I was just going on Rick's price stuff above. I know they are 85 cents as I bought new ones for the W41 and they haven't skipped a beat. [Edit, owner's manual in hand.] Well Matt, you are batting one for two today. The standard service interval of the stock AC 41-602 plug is 30,000 miles on both schedules. I can't believe a platinum plug could have been sold for less than a buck, even a few years ago. Looks like I'm due for plugs according to that, but I think they typically last about 50K.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by LargeFish
I was just going on Rick's price stuff above. I know they are 85 cents as I bought new ones for the W41 and they haven't skipped a beat. [Edit, owner's manual in hand.] Well Matt, you are batting one for two today. The standard service interval of the stock AC 41-602 plug is 30,000 miles on both schedules. I can't believe a platinum plug could have been sold for less than a buck, even a few years ago. Looks like I'm due for plugs according to that, but I think they typically last about 50K.

I'm referring to the 95 plugs... not sure about the 94. My owners manuals are in another state at the moment. I did in fact follow the 100,000 mile service interval in my 95... they still ran just fine when I changed them at about 100K miles.

[LargeFish]

Were they something other than a 41-602? '95 was such a bastard...


Originally posted by Matt95GT
I'm referring to the 95 plugs... not sure about the 94. My owners manuals are in another state at the moment. I did in fact follow the 100,000 mile service interval in my 95... they still ran just fine when I changed them at about 100K miles.

[Matt95GT]

Originally posted by LargeFish
Were they something other than a 41-602? '95 was such a bastard...

I'll have to check sometime... you have me wondering about it now.