Future Project ... Grand AM GTP

[00GrandAMFTW]

The question is... do you think a GTP motor would be able to fit in a 2000 grand am se engine bay? If so, that's going to be my big project in a few years.

[Peyman]

if you're talking about the 3800 in a grand am... and its been done before... pics are somewhere....

[GtAudioFreak]

Yea I've heard of it being done too, would be frickin sweet. I'd do it if i knew how.

[bballr4567]

Its been done once. The guy had HUGE problems trying to get the 3800 to run in the car. He had to piggy back the PCMs and make them run together. I believe he said it took over two years.

[tjsoulsby]

check it out on rankmyride.com

[coupe]

This subject is like the song that never ends

[VanishingImage]

been done. The one guy that is most known for it did have electrical problems,like someone said earlier,had to piggy-back the PCM to get it to run. And now I believe he is selling or has sold the Grand Am

[Matt M]

Just buy a GTP.

[cardude007617]

haha but thats the easy way out

['96GAGT]

Wouldnt mind seeing the install shots of the engine.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by '96GAGT
Wouldnt mind seeing the install shots of the engine.
You've never seen it?
http://www.rankmyride.com/?page=cars/view&CID=6943
Or do you mean like "in-the-process" type pictures?

I know there was at least one other guy--he put an L67 in a 92-95 car, I think he originally had a 3300 but I can't remember now.

[GatorGA]

Don't waste your time or money if you're referring to the 3800 SC that makes 240 hp. Your Ecotec will do that and them some easily for less than the amount of money you'd spend on the 3800 project. Or just buy the Grand Prix or Monte Carlo if you must have this engine. These threads get old.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by GatorGA
These threads get old.
For n00bs it seems they never do get old! There's like one every month at least, I'm sure, LOL.

[04alyGT]

Originally posted by coupe
This subject is like the song that never ends
x2


I believe it took the guy who did it something like 600 hours or something like that, and an unnecessary amount of money to do.

[99blackSE]

I think the other who did was in a 4th gen, Jamz I think his name was, the guy who runs gmpt.net

Just boost the ecotec, much better results, much superior engine.

[GatorGA]

Originally posted by 99blackSE
Just boost the ecotec, much better results, much superior engine.

Finally, someone that agrees.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by 99blackSE

Just boost the ecotec, much better results, much superior engine.
Ecotec is a nice motor however I wouldn't call it superior to the 3800 L67 or L32.

[DomestikDemon]

Ive never really looked into this too much, but im guessing that since there a EngineCM and BodyCM in a GA, the Grand Prix (I know, similarities pretty much end with the name) being a GM/Pontiac would be set up the same way....If this is the case how hard could it be to rip out the 3400 motor, trans, and harness and replace with the corresponding 3800 parts?

[99blackSE]

Originally posted by TA^Guy
Ecotec is a nice motor however I wouldn't call it superior to the 3800 L67 or L32.

Yeah the 3800 is a good motor, I mean it was on Wards 10 best for a reason back in the 90's but compared to what GM has out there today it seems to be outdated. If I had the money I would much rather boost a Eco but that is just me.

Do you know John if GM ever used any L67s in their drag racing programs back in the day or did they just keep it as a workhouse at the consumer level?

From what I remember on clubgp when I used to browse there more than a few guys were switching over to turbos instead of rolling with the M90.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by 99blackSE
Yeah the 3800 is a good motor, I mean it was on Wards 10 best for a reason back in the 90's but compared to what GM has out there today it seems to be outdated. If I had the money I would much rather boost a Eco but that is just me.

Do you know John if GM ever used any L67s in their drag racing programs back in the day or did they just keep it as a workhouse at the consumer level?

From what I remember on clubgp when I used to browse there more than a few guys were switching over to turbos instead of rolling with the M90.
Yes alot of guys do switch over, for two reasons. The M90 is harder to intercool than a typical turbo or centrifugal blower. The turbo also has less parastic drag on the engine.
However there are benifits and downsides to both, completely different debate.
MattGTP on this forum has a sick '98 Grand Prix F1 with a turbocharged L32.

Not sure if GM used the L67 in a racing application or not to be honest. Maybe something to look into. And yes the 3800 found it's way into a great deal of GMs midsized and larger vehicles for a reason, it was rock solid.

Main reason why I'd go 3800 over a Ecotec if I were building it for performance, torque. Ecotec won't come close pound for pound.

[taysgt]

Iam soon going to take on this project my brother-in law is an auto mech. and said that the guy must have not know somthin cuz, He said it actually is quite simple, but hes been droping motors with his dad since he was 12 and is know 29 and has droped a few gtp's not in a ga but in a berretta n somtin else

[SikMindz]

Ha!

Good luck with that...if it was "THAT" easy don't you think that out of the thousands of other GA owners on these forums and others there would be more than just 1 who tried???

Fastest current gen GA to date is a 2.4L boosted. The Ecotech has a HUGE aftermarket for you to play with compared to others and would be a lot less trouble.

[Blackhawk]

"Dropping motors" means nothing. If he was dropping older motors that didn't have extensive computer systems the hardest part was fabricating new mounts and hoping your donor came with an intact harness. Not to sound like an ass but does he have proof of the cars with the 3800 S/C in it, like pictures or something?

[taysgt]

Well Ill ask if he has any pictures or proof which Iam sure he doesnt cuz its like an every weekend thing for him, and honestly anything is possible, I work with him tomarrow and i will talk to him bout it some more, I'll get you you guys some vids and pics once its in but iam not going to give up on the project

[taysgt]

What would another possible engine be to drop that has more potential then the 3.4 I know your going to say buy a diffrent car but I wanna take on a project

[Blackhawk]

I'd say any of the N-body engines (2.2, 2.4). It's a little more annoying to mess with computers on these if you do a swap not made for the car than it used to be. And before you do any swap I'd suggest getting a beater car for a DD if you don't have one, because most swaps, especially where you have to fab everything, takes some time and you'll need transportation.

[Blackhawk]

Sorry that it's probably not the answer you want, but a 2.2 5speed or a 2.4 can handle alot of power and have a good sized aftermarket base, including from GM.

[SikMindz]

2.4...

Read up on my buddy's GA.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/217311

[taysgt]

So i talked to my brother in law today and I also seen a saturn that he had droped a gtp in which i can get photos soon, and he also said he dropped one in a bretta and a corsica, the guy who helps him said he has dropped a few other from people and if i could get the engine, he could do it in less then a week! Now all i have to do is save up, but I will be sure to document this project closley SO THE OTHER THOUSAND CAN COPY, and believe me not all ga owners are on here theres prob alot more that have dropped it!

[Blackhawk]

How much is he gonna charge you for it? I still think it'd be easier to go Spy's route with the boosted 2.4.

[SikMindz]

Well good luck with that. For the amount of $ it's going to cost, the custom fabrication and the time (under a week my ass) you're still going to have a mid-14s car when you could easily spend the money on a 2.2, 2.4 or mod the 3400 and not go through all the hassle. But hey- better you than me.

Read up:

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46844&highlight=gtp+swap

http://www.l67swap.com/

There's a lot of info on this at GAGT.com.
I'd advise you to read up as you're going to need it.

[taysgt]

I respect the fast 4 cylinders but 4 bangers arnt four me

[SikMindz]

Then swap in an LS1 if you're going to go through the trouble.

[taysgt]

Is there a such thing as a front wheel drive lS1 theres front LS6's right, but I geuss the Ls1 would be bad ass!!! mmmmmm...... any more ideas now you got me thinking what other possible engines?

[bandit307]

If you are going to go through all the work of custom fabing the swap you might as well look into something more worth while. I admit the 3800 series II is an impressive engine. But for the money and R&D that will be involved, to me its just not worth it.

Why not look into a (LZ9) 3.9 with a 6T70 transmission.

You can put almost any engine in your GA, The deciding factor is what you can actually fit in the engine bay. Hell you can get a LS"X" to bolt up to a Getrag trans. So anything is possible. Just a matter of fitting it in and making the computer work.

[SikMindz]

Cosign. There are tons of better swaps (import and domestic) that I can think of that would be a better time investment.

[bandit307]

Yes there is front wheel drive LS1's, or by better definition transverse mount LS1's, thats the plan for my Fiero.

[taysgt]

How much HP does a that ls1 put out

[eric99gt]

lol lol lol

[Wallflower]

2006+ Impala/Monte Carlo SS, Grand Prix GXP built off the 5.3 truck block with 290HP IIRC. In the LS family, but not exactly the LS1/2/6.

[taysgt]

That would be a beutiful thing once I can buy a repairable 2006+ Impala/Monte Carlo SS, Grand Prix GXP i will

[bandit307]

You can pick up LS"X" engines for a decent price. I have seen some as low as $2000, depends on the millage usually and if any work is needed to it.

The thing is though you will need a PCM and wiring harness from a donor car to make the LS"X" work in the grand am.

But i think its time for you to slow down and do some research first. There is more to it then just dropping it in and driving away.

For instance on my Fiero, its an 87 by the way and a hell of alot less complex when it comes to the ECM. There are many steps that must be taken into putting in a small block such as an LS"X".

For starters mechanical:
*Engine/Transmission Adapter Plate
*Front Engine Mount
*A/C Mount
*Alternator Mount
*Torque Strut Rod
*Starter Mount Block
*Harmonic Balancer Pulley
*Billet Flywheel/Flex Plate Adapter
*Fasteners Required
*Remote Oil Filter Kit
*Oil Filter Adapter
*Performance Starter
*High Performance Clutch
*4-core Radiator
*Custom Exhaust System with Manifolds
*High Performance Water Pump Drive System or Electric Water Pump
Plus getting the right flywheel, hoses, fitting and more.

Then you have to take the stock Fiero harness and splice it with the harness that came with the donor engine.

Now with the fiero it is fairly simple because kits are available for such swaps. But this will give you an idea of what you are up against when doing a swap. Alot of R&D required it will be trial and error since not many engine swaps have been done to the GA. Thus for there are no real documented blueprints you can run off of.

[SikMindz]

Originally posted by eric99gt
lol lol lol

:lol: Werd.

[taysgt]

LOL LOL LOL honestly take out a 3400 and drop A 2.4!


WERD!

[eric99gt]

I'm sorry kid......It's obvious this is just a pipe dream. We've seen these threads a million times. I doubt you even have a friend who does all these amazing swaps. Hell we've all made up stories when we were younger.

[SikMindz]

I just stubbed my toe. This thread makes everything better.

[taysgt]

So when I get the pictures of these swaps are you going to finally believe me and no its not a friend hes my brother in law, yes right now its a dream but once I have enough cash to buy a repairable gtp, or everything I need then it wont, its kinda hard when I work at a bodyshop for 9 bucks cash, I got bout 2 grand in a seperate account just for this swap, and if i put in enough overtime, I should have it by september

[taysgt]

I cant believe this, somone actually is good at swaps and has made some amazing cars, but know one really thinks he did,

[taysgt]

Iam very serious about this swap and I going to eventaully complete like I said I will be sure to have videos and pictures as soon as possible!

[bandit307]

there is no proof, what do you expect them to believe. Its alot of work and research its not just about swapping the engine, There is so much more to it. Your just feeding the wolves now. Until you get them some pictures to prove that these swaps have been done the will keep nipping at your hand. You can say all you want, there have been many kids saying the have a mechanic friend or dad that can swap out the engine for them. Then all of a sudden the thread dies and its never mentioned again.

Lots of us have the dream of making a really fast GA, but its not a cheap or easy task. If you want to go really fast buy something else to start with. If you love the GA so much make it pretty and put it in car shows and get groceries in style.

[cardude007617]

will it physically fit?

[bandit307]

will what physically fit?

[SikMindz]

Originally posted by cardude007617
will it physically fit?

DUH. We just went over this.

No one is arguing that a 3800 won't fit or can't be done. Fact of the matter is that it CAN. The whole point is WHY. It's going to cost you way more than 2G's lots of downtime with the car AND you're 17. Save the money and do something more efficient with it- I understand the need to go fast, but if you're going to do a swap with this much work you might as well do something that's going to net you more than a 1s gain in the 1/4 IF you can even get it working.

Even the guy that we referenced earlier never got the car completely up and running safely due to the massive overhaul and piggybacking of the GA PCM and the GP PCM.

Like I said...READ UP and see what you're getting into and weigh it out. Most of us have already given you great feedback on the issues that are going to come up.

[bandit307]

There just is not enough aftermarket or services available for the GA. IF your going to do it, start reading take our advice. we have considerd this before, and that is why we know what we are talking about. If you have your heart set an a really fast GA then prove us all wrong and build a 11 second GA. till then its all talk.

[taysgt]

I know its going to cost me way more then 2g's thats why I said Iam still saving, 2nd I have another vehicle so downtime with it isnt a worry
Third it'll be more then just 1s, Ill have a lot better tranny, and total custom car

[SikMindz]

Ahahaha. Now this is just ridiculous. You're going to build an 11sec GA. Wonderful. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm done with this thread.

[bandit307]

Come on now its possible to build a 11 sec. GA, I just dont think a 17 year old kid can do it. :lol:

[taysgt]

Wait who said 11s

[taysgt]

You said somthing better then a one sec gain ok, well what do most ga run with intake and exhaust, like high 14's I betcha I could make it low high 12's thats better then 1 second right?

[taysgt]

Does age really matter though, I have hook ups, wait nevermind wont bring it up cuz Noone would belive me

[taysgt]

Just because Iam 17 doesnt mean that I dont have knowledge and been reading manuals, and have had a strong intrest in 6 and 8 cylinder motors since I was 15

[taysgt]

And theres gtp's that run in mid 10's and there are videos on the web to prove this!

[eric99gt]

We know this. Please provide pics ASAP.

[taysgt]

I will the guy wit the saturn livea bout hour away, so my brother in law is calling him up to see when he will be round the area so i can snap a few, I know that the satrun is a lot lighter but Ryan "brother in law" said that when the saturn ran at the track it ran high 11's

[Ralph]

Fitting is the easy part sadly. I say send a email to newfinish like I did and find out how much work goes into a wiring harness. But sounds like you have a plan I will be waiting for pictures of your car I don't care about the saturn.

[taysgt]

Thanks for the support! I will make sure to post them

[bandit307]

OK. Age, money, experiance, tools, hook-ups. We dont really care. When you post a thread people will give you there opinion good or bad. Some of us think it is not worth it to swap in a 3800. If you think it is go for it. To each his own, i think its time to stop bitching and nagging about this. If your that determend get it done. Post up your plans, how everything is going to go in, what exactly you will use for parts, plans for the harness and pcm, custom work needed. Then we will share our input and try to help you out.

Like i said, the topic has been brought up many times and has fallen through. Not many people have followed through with there plans to turbo this and swap that because they realize its alot more work and money then they first realized. I did the same thing i wanted to boost my 3400 build up the tranny, forged pistons(if i could find a set) ect. ect. ect. And i decided it just wasn't worth it to me. I love the GA but its no sports car.

[Dargasonus]

Originally posted by bandit307
but its no sports car.

Tell that to my insurance company

:roflmfao:

[Blackhawk]

Taylor, you're going to have an easier time swapping a 2.4, an engine we know will obviously fit with not alot of modifying, and overhauling it. The fastest (or one of them) GA has a turboed 2.4. I know you think the 6 or 8 cyl will beat the 4cyl, but extra cylinders doesn't mean shit sometimes. Especially when the 4 cyl GM engines have more/cheaper aftermarket parts.

[DomestikDemon]

Ya, hes right.

As much as I hate those annoying ass little4-bangers, some of em are pretty quick. And Taylor, with the 2k you said youd need, you could have are or damn near have a turbo setup that works.

[Blackhawk]

Or he could go the 2.2, get the Cobalt SS sc. I think the 2.4 has a sc from GM too, but I'm probably wrong on that count.

[DomestikDemon]

^^
2000-01 2.4 GA
GM makes a kit...complete bolt on...ready to go out of the box